3478 réponses à ce sujet

[uzivatel]

smudboy wrote...

uzivatel wrote...

Why not just destroy the relay and let the Collectors rot in their base? Sure, the game would take some 30 minutes to finish...

A number of strategies could have been employed.

Relays are indestructible, as far as we know.  But there was nothing wrong with putting up a blockade or mine field around the area, since the only species we know that seem to use the thing are the Collectors: also a pretty simple way of detecting them.

Thats even better.

[DaySeeker]

How many missions did Shep go on where people were studying Reaper tech and everyone was dead. The relays were traps set by the Reapers to control the "lesser species" and eventually led to extinction of those species. I will admit I did not read codex entries on the canon, but I believe Garrus came up with that upgrade and I don't remember him mentioning the reapers as the source. I also don't know where you got the idea that EDI was reaper tech.



Beyond this, calm down, the OP asked why people blew up the base; you, sniper, may not agree with the decision, but I haven't read anyone say anything outrageous. My Shep saved the council, so would be concerned with alien races, he also saw Cerberus's experiments and murder, so would not trust TIM. Not of that is unreasonable.

[smudboy]

DaySeeker wrote...

How many missions did Shep go on where people were studying Reaper tech and everyone was dead. The relays were traps set by the Reapers to control the "lesser species" and eventually led to extinction of those species. I will admit I did not read codex entries on the canon, but I believe Garrus came up with that upgrade and I don't remember him mentioning the reapers as the source. I also don't know where you got the idea that EDI was reaper tech.

Beyond this, calm down, the OP asked why people blew up the base; you, sniper, may not agree with the decision, but I haven't read anyone say anything outrageous. My Shep saved the council, so would be concerned with alien races, he also saw Cerberus's experiments and murder, so would not trust TIM. Not of that is unreasonable.

Thanix Cannons are Reaper tech.
EDI is based on Reaper tech (just talk to her.)

[Giggles_Manically]

How can Cerberus only have 150 people in it?



The Normandy has more than 20 easily.

However Shepard in 1 killed dozens, Zaeed killed 50 he said (before he lost count), One or two cells got taken out in CDN, Overload, Lazarus, and Firewalker are all a wash. The Derelict Reaper and some others like Pragia are also gone.



Maybe Cerberus just lost to many people to replace them in such short order. Although mainly the group we are dealing with is the Military side, so possibly the Political and Science? side dont need that many people.



I hate uncleared plots that dangle.

[atheelogos]

DaySeeker wrote...

How many missions did Shep go on where people were studying Reaper tech and everyone was dead. The relays were traps set by the Reapers to control the "lesser species" and eventually led to extinction of those species. I will admit I did not read codex entries on the canon, but I believe Garrus came up with that upgrade and I don't remember him mentioning the reapers as the source. I also don't know where you got the idea that EDI was reaper tech.

Beyond this, calm down, the OP asked why people blew up the base; you, sniper, may not agree with the decision, but I haven't read anyone say anything outrageous. My Shep saved the council, so would be concerned with alien races, he also saw Cerberus's experiments and murder, so would not trust TIM. Not of that is unreasonable.

Why did you save the council?

[Sniper11709]

DaySeeker wrote...

How many missions did Shep go on where people were studying Reaper tech and everyone was dead. The relays were traps set by the Reapers to control the "lesser species" and eventually led to extinction of those species. I will admit I did not read codex entries on the canon, but I believe Garrus came up with that upgrade and I don't remember him mentioning the reapers as the source. I also don't know where you got the idea that EDI was reaper tech.

Beyond this, calm down, the OP asked why people blew up the base; you, sniper, may not agree with the decision, but I haven't read anyone say anything outrageous. My Shep saved the council, so would be concerned with alien races, he also saw Cerberus's experiments and murder, so would not trust TIM. Not of that is unreasonable.

Calm down? Why would i need to calm down when i'm just correcting you when haven't been paying attention. Hell you just said that you hadn't read the thread and yet your going on like i've been yelling at everyone and you also say that no has said anything?

I'm actully starting to believe that the Mass Relays are not purely Reaper tech, the mass relays are invulnurable to modern weapons but the Reapers aren't? dosen't make much sense, yes i know this also invalidates my first comment but i'm 50/50 at the moment.

Garrus did not come up with the Thanix. The Thanix was designed by the Turians after stealing and then studying Soverigns main guns and replicated the more advanced stuff as best they could.

Well as someone pointed out just speak to EDI to find out she's pretty much based on a Reaper AI. specifically you need to talk to her after the kidnapping when she has been unshackled.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 21 juillet 2010 - 10:51 .

[ThemFlashlight-headedThings]

No way in Hell would i give that base over to that smug bastard TIM, in all of my playthroughs I let it blow up. Does anyone believe that the reapers wold be careless enough to think that the base cou;dn't be infiltrated (by a human and geth infiltrator) and be used against them? I think that TIM woud go power crazy and do something stupid

[Giggles_Manically]

Why are we announcing that one descion will ruin your chances either way.



What we will most likely see is a different quest line, and a different army selection in the end. Both descions lead to the end of the reapers and cake.



With slightly different powerpoint slides to boot.

[wulf3n]

DaySeeker wrote... The relays were traps set by the Reapers to control the "lesser species" and eventually led to extinction of those species.

Knowing there's a trap is the first step in evading it.
Just because it's a trap, doesn't mean we should avoid it like the plague, they contain invaluable technology, that can save many lives in the upcoming war.

[krasnoarmeets]

I rationalise the choice to destroy the base thus:

(1) Cerberus are inept to the point of comedy, as has already been mentioned

(2) The Cerberus expedition you've encountered just prior to this which was sent to study the derelict reaper succumbed to the indoctrination effects that were present even in this 'dead' reaper. Who's to say there won't be some similar effects in play at the collector base?

(3) Would I trust TIM or Cerberus with that technological potential (essentially a human-centric terrorist group)? Hell, no.

[wulf3n]

krasnoarmeets wrote...
The Cerberus expedition you've encountered just prior to this which was sent to study the derelict reaper succumbed to the indoctrination effects that were present even in this 'dead' reaper. Who's to say there won't be some similar effects in play at the collector base?
 

Not so much of a problem as Indoctrination takes time, and the symptoms are noticeable, so if you were to rotate scientists, and keep close observation, expect minimal casualties. The derelict reaper was an oversight, and lack of precaution as no one expected a dead reaper could still indoctrinate.

[Spectre_907]

I destroyed it because of Legion's talk about the non-linear nature of technology. I destroyed it because of the Protheans being able to outwit the Reapers by developing technology outside the Reaper framework. These were the two main reasons why I destroyed the base. What makes using the technology of an alien race has been using and perfecting it for millions of years a good idea?

Also, does anyone seem to ignore the fact that you are handing this base over to Cerberus and Cerberus alone? To someone whom you have absolutely no understanding of any true motives? To an organization who is not very competent in carrying out their plans and with a long history of failed experiments stemming out of an unchecked ideology?

Modifié par Spectre_907, 22 juillet 2010 - 02:13 .

[smudboy]

Spectre_907 wrote...
I destroyed it because of Legion's talk about the non-linear nature of technology.

Which is complete rubbish, and also after the fact.  At that choice, he recommends keeping it.  He then does a 180 when you talk to him later.

I destroyed it because of the Protheans being able to outwit the Reapers by developing technology outside the Reaper framework.

What?  They literally studied Reaper technology to create their own relay.  How is that outside the Reaper framework?

These were the two main reasons why I destroyed the base. What makes using the technology of an alien race has been using and perfecting it for millions of years a good idea?

The Protheans thought so (Conduit).  The Turians thought so (Thanix).  Cerberus thought so (EDI).

Also, does anyone seem to ignore the fact that you are handing this base over to Cerberus and Cerberus alone? To someone whom you have absolutely no understanding of any true motives? To an organization who is not very competent in carrying out their plans and with a long history of failed experiments stemming out of an unchecked ideology?

Cerberus conquered death.
Cerberus created the SR2.
Cerberus created EDI.
Cerberus is the only organization doing anything about the Reapers.

[wulf3n]

Is there even much point to the collector base? Collector Tech isn't exactly state of the art. The Normandy SR2 is much more powerful than a Collector Cruiser many times its size. Besides EDI already downloaded a ton of information from the Collector base, including what look like the schematics of Harbinger...what were they even doing there?

The only use i could see for the Collector Base is if we wanted to make our own reaper?

[Mageofthedas2012]

Its not that we don't understand how powerful the collector base is, its how you use the information, an example: You see a kid with a cookie and you want that cookie, three ways to get said cookie: Ask him, bully and torture him until you get the cookie, or ask him where he got it, if you are a nice person and you kicked and hurt the kid you should feel bad about it. Or do you? 0_o

[smudboy]

wulf3n wrote...

Is there even much point to the collector base?

Well let's see.  It supposedly builds our enigmatic, godlike enemy, whom we're trying to stop from destroying all live ever.

Collector Tech isn't exactly state of the art.

If by Collector Tech, you mean the Tech in the Collector Base, then yes, it is beyond state of the art.
If by Collector Tech, you mean the weapons and defenses of the Collector Cruiser, then maybe not exactly state of the art, but definitely cutting edge.

The Normandy SR2 is much more powerful than a Collector Cruiser many times its size.

And if we're just fighting the Collectors, you might have a minor argument there.

Besides EDI already downloaded a ton of information from the Collector base, including what look like the schematics of Harbinger...what were they even doing there?

Where do you know this?  All I know is she scans the interior of the base, and Joker has a 4 pictures of what looks like a Reaper.

The only use i could see for the Collector Base is if we wanted to make our own reaper?

Or you could just study the various devices that construct a Reaper, without actually building one, because that would be impossible.

[wulf3n]

smudboy wrote...

Besides EDI already downloaded a ton of information from the Collector base, including what look like the schematics of Harbinger...what were they even doing there?

Where do you know this?  All I know is she scans the interior of the base, and Joker has a 4 pictures of what looks like a Reaper.

and where did joker get that info from? I'm guessing a datapad with pictures of a reaper, which story wise is probably supposed to indicate we have proof of the reapers existence, wouldn't just be floating around, and since the only place we've been is the collector base, i think it's safe to assume that it was "Acquired" from there.

smudboy wrote...
If by Collector Tech, you mean the Tech in the Collector Base, then yes, it is beyond state of the art.

Based on what? that it can make a Reaper? that's most likely the only advanced bit of technology it has, as why would the reapers risk most of they're technology being discovered

smudboy wrote...
Or you could just study the various devices that construct a Reaper, without actually building one, because that would be impossible.

Not impossible, just require Hundreds of Thousands, if not Millions of humans...and if it were to save humanity:?

Modifié par wulf3n, 22 juillet 2010 - 02:58 .

[Lord Zulander]

Spectre_907 wrote...

I destroyed it because of Legion's talk about the non-linear nature of technology. I destroyed it because of the Protheans being able to outwit the Reapers by developing technology outside the Reaper framework. These were the two main reasons why I destroyed the base. What makes using the technology of an alien race has been using and perfecting it for millions of years a good idea?

Also, does anyone seem to ignore the fact that you are handing this base over to Cerberus and Cerberus alone? To someone whom you have absolutely no understanding of any true motives? To an organization who is not very competent in carrying out their plans and with a long history of failed experiments stemming out of an unchecked ideology?

I posted the exact same reason on youtube (a while ago). Sovereign in ME1 told us as much that relays were a way to direct the technology path of the organics. The majority (~95%) of the Geth turned down Sovereign's offer and warned us via Legion that using another's tech blinds you to finding alternatives or building your own future. Add to that, something is happening to the star around Haestrom, possibly involving dark energy. ALL of the ME universe tech is based on dark energy, including biotics; and if the Reapers can control it....

[MonkeyKaboom]

I destroyed it because I knew it would ****** off that chain smoking Martin Sheen wannabe as much as half the people here arguing about someone else's gameplay experience. And because its a game and you all are having a heart attack over it....

[smudboy]

wulf3n wrote...
and where did joker get that info from? I'm guessing a datapad with pictures of a reaper, which story wise is probably supposed to indicate we have proof of the reapers existence, wouldn't just be floating around, and since the only place we've been is the collector base, i think it's safe to assume that it was "Acquired" from there.

Yes, it's 4 pictures of a Reaper.  We can't assume anything else came from it.

EDI did scans and pulled up schematics of the base.  She later did scans of the central chamber, like thermal emissions.  She then detected organic and non-organic signatures.

smudboy wrote...
If by Collector Tech, you mean the Tech in the Collector Base, then yes, it is beyond state of the art.

Based on what? that it can make a Reaper? that's most likely the only advanced bit of technology it has, as why would the reapers risk most of they're technology being discovered

Yes.
Because they are stupid.

[wulf3n]

smudboy wrote...
Yes, it's 4 pictures of a Reaper.  We can't assume anything else came from it.

But how did they get it? do you think that a datapad with pictures of a reaper was just sitting somewhere in the collector base?

[smudboy]

wulf3n wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Yes, it's 4 pictures of a Reaper.  We can't assume anything else came from it.

But how did they get it? do you think that a datapad with pictures of a reaper was just sitting somewhere in the collector base?

As I said before, EDI did scans and got schematics.  We do know she did scans of the base and its interior.

We cannot assume she datamined the entire thing before blowing it up.  We do know she has 4 pictures of a Reaper.  Which won't convince the Council of anything.

[wulf3n]

smudboy wrote...
As I said before, EDI did scans and got schematics.  We do know she did scans of the base and its interior.

We cannot assume she datamined the entire thing before blowing it up.  We do know she has 4 pictures of a Reaper.  Which won't convince the Council of anything.

fair enough

[DarkSeraphym]

wulf3n wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Besides EDI already downloaded a ton of information from the Collector base, including what look like the schematics of Harbinger...what were they even doing there?

Where do you know this?  All I know is she scans the interior of the base, and Joker has a 4 pictures of what looks like a Reaper.

and where did joker get that info from? I'm guessing a datapad with pictures of a reaper, which story wise is probably supposed to indicate we have proof of the reapers existence, wouldn't just be floating around, and since the only place we've been is the collector base, i think it's safe to assume that it was "Acquired" from there.

smudboy wrote...
If by Collector Tech, you mean the Tech in the Collector Base, then yes, it is beyond state of the art.

Based on what? that it can make a Reaper? that's most likely the only advanced bit of technology it has, as why would the reapers risk most of they're technology being discovered

smudboy wrote...
Or you could just study the various devices that construct a Reaper, without actually building one, because that would be impossible.

Not impossible, just require Hundreds of Thousands, if not Millions of humans...and if it were to save humanity:?

Well, even if Joker pulled that information from scans that EDI got out of the Collectors, all you know is that it is a picture. Simply because I drive to the Pentagon and take a picture of its facade does not mean that I have taken a picture of its schematics. Do not confuse the two. All you can assume from the picture is that it is a picture, nothing more. Nothing has been said by BioWare or the Codex to suggest otherwise.

For your second point, I'll say it once and I'll say it again, the Reapers have shown time and time again that they do not expect their "prey" to be capable of rising up against them. What were you doing when Sovereign was talking to you on Virmire? It basically said it's a superior being that is beyond all organic comprehension. It didn't expect the Protheans to have developed a virus capable of giving Shepard control of the base, it didn't expect Shepard to destroy the revived Saren, it didn't expect to get wiped out by the Alliance, and the Reapers themselves didn't expect Shepard to get an IFF to be able to walk right through the Omega-4 Relay. If they expected you to get through the Omega-4 Relay, they would have put up more than few security drones to stop you. The Reapers would keep technology on the base because their superiority complex leads them to believe that no one would be capable of finding it.

As an example, suppose for a moment that I gained a God complex and believed myself to be a master thief and stole your bike, only to leave it in my backyard behind a fence with only a small dog to guard it. Why would I do this? Mostly because I have a superiority complex and think that I am infallible and because I believe myself to be a master thief, I would believe either that you did not see me take your bike or would believe that you would simply be too "inferior" to discover it and get it back anyways. I'd never expect you to jump my fence, get around my dog, and then steal the bike back from me if I believe I was "infallible", "superior", and "beyond your organic comprehension".

As for your final point on creating a Reaper, you don't have to create a Reaper to get an "edge" over the other races; which is what TIM likely wishes to do. There are all sorts of things you could do with that technology, such as recreate the armaments in a Reaper design into Alliance vessels or include the immense shielding we saw on Sovereign that was used to withstand the attack of the Citadel fleet into Alliance vessels. There is a great deal of potential in the technology of the Reapers that doesn't necessarily require you to recreate one. Hell, this knowledge is already more valuable to Cerberus than other information. It gives you an understanding of the defenses and offensive capabilities of the Reapers, on top of allowing you to duplicate it and use it against the other races once the Reapers are dealt with.

Your assumption that TIM is going to make a Reaper with that technology is ridiculous and what is known as a "slippery slope" fallacy of logic. You assume that simply because you have given the technology to Cerberus, they are going to do something crazy and attempt to build a Reaper with millions of lives to invest into the project. This is kind of like the anti-violent video game organizations saying that if you allow your children to play violent video games, they will become murderers and rapists. There may be some connection in the two, but to assume that you will go from one thing to such a HUGE leap is known as slippery slope.
I apologize if I came off as rude, but I was trying to make some counterarguments to some arguments you had made previously and thought it would best make my point so I apologize ahead of time if I have come off that way.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 22 juillet 2010 - 03:37 .

[Nashiktal]

All the amazing arguments aside, DarkSeraphym has a point about the reaper's god complex.