wulf3n wrote...
DarkSeraphym wrote...
Well, even if Joker pulled that information from scans that EDI got out of the Collectors, all you know is that it is a picture. Simply because I drive to the Pentagon and take a picture of its facade does not mean that I have taken a picture of its schematics. Do not confuse the two. All you can assume from the picture is that it is a picture, nothing more. Nothing has been said by BioWare or the Codex to suggest otherwise.
But you've gotta wonder what something like that is doing on the collector base. Unless of course, it wasn't a picture of Harbinger, but actually what the Fully developed human reaper would have looked like, then i would understand it's reason for being there.
DarkSeraphym wrote...
For your second point, I'll say it once and I'll say it again, the Reapers have shown time and time again that they do not expect their "prey" to be capable of rising up against them.
Normally i would agree with you, but in that situation, why make the collectors that much weaker than you? either you fear the collectors themselves will misuse the technology, or the Lifeforms you are trying to obliterate would, otherwise, you wouldn't care, and would want your minions to have the best resources available.
DarkSeraphym wrote...
As for your final point on creating a Reaper, you don't have to create a Reaper to get an "edge" over the other races; which is what TIM likely wishes to do. There are all sorts of things you could do with that technology, such as recreate the armaments in a Reaper design into Alliance vessels
which has already been done (Thannix Cannons, are Sovereign Based Weapons)
DarkSeraphym wrote...
or include the immense shielding we saw on Sovereign that was used to withstand the attack of the Citadel fleet into Alliance vessels. There is a great deal of potential in the technology of the Reapers that doesn't necessarily require you to recreate one.
But that technology would have been better acquired on the derelict reaper.
DarkSeraphym wrote...
Your assumption that TIM is going to make a Reaper with that technology is ridiculous and what is known as a "slippery slope" fallacy of logic. You assume that simply because you have given the technology to Cerberus, they are going to do something crazy and attempt to build a Reaper with millions of lives to invest into the project..
Exaggeration was my goal with that point, but not so far fetched IMO. I don't think TIM would go out straight away and make his own reaper, but considering he's the "Whatever it Takes" kinda guy, i wouldn't put it past him to try and make one, if HE thinks there's no other option.
Its a good possibility that it could have been what the Human-Reaper was supposed to look like. This is a theory supported by the fact that most of the Reapers had the same cuttlefish appearance as all of the other ones, yet they couldn't all be based on the same species. Thus its likely the Reapers evolve over time into that appearance.
I have an argument to answer your second point. The Reapers are the ones who HEAVILY genetically modified the Protheans into becoming the Collectors. For all we know, establishing a hive mind for the Collector General and making the Collectors compatible with this modification could have, in turn, made the lesser Collectors substancially weaker than they would have otherwise been, which would explain the necessity for the "Assuming Direct Control" ability to greatly amplify their abilities at the will of Harbinger. This, in turn, would explain why the Collectors had such a great need for the Reaper technology in the first place. If they were fairly weak in physical form, they would need a weapon like the Collector Ship and a secure location like the galactic core to keep threats reduced to a minimum.
Another possibility for why the Reapers left the Collectors so weak is because of the "ascension" that the Reapers keep referring to. From what we know of them, Reapers seem like the kind of beings that would have Charles Darwin's
Origin of Species memorized. They are immense supporters of the idea of natural selection, the weak die off to make room for the strong. The Reapers seem to only support those beings that they consider worthy of "ascension" by essentially wiping them out and harvesting them to make a Reaper out of them. As explained by Virgil at Illos, the Reapers turned anything they didn't wipe out into their personal slaves and then just up and left, leaving the mindless slaves to their demise. This is probably because the Reapers are only willing to give enough technology to their slaves that the slaves are going to be useful to the Reapers, but will ultimately leave them weak because their place in the natural cycle is to simply wither and die. Since the Protheans lacked the genetic diversity to be turned into a Reaper, the Reapers would have seem them as even more inferior and only been willing to aid them enough that the Collectors would be useful but also not conflict with their idea that the Collectors were a genetic "smudge" so to speak on the natural order and were ultimately worth nothing more than dying out.
This leaves us with two alternate, and what I think are for more likely reasons for why the Reapers left the Collectors rather weak. Either A. it was a side-effect of the immense amount of genetic modifications needed to create a hive mind for the lesser Collectors or B. it wasn't because the Reapers thought that the Collectors would misuse the technology, but instead because the Reapers thought that the Collectors weren't worthy of having access to all of their technology. Besides, the Collectors would have been incapable of misusing the technology because of the hive mind. Harbinger had direct control of the Collector General, giving him control of all of the Collectors at will. This is why they were designed this way, so Harbinger could oversee and directly control them, there was no chance at all that the Collectors would have misused the technology.
As for that derelict reaper, do we even know what made it derelict in the first place? For all we know, the Reaper could have been badly damaged and been a poor specimen for analysis. Likewise, we know that the Reaper was still "alive" enough to indoctrinate the Cerberus employees working there and was ultimately destroyed anyways. As far as we can tell, actually examining a "dead" Reaper is an impossibility given the fact that it still has the ability to indoctrinate any organic that comes into contact with it. The Collector Base, as far as we can tell, is the safest alternative. Now it is true that a "dead" Reaper now exists on the Collector Base, but we don't know how much of an ability an incomplete Reaper has for indoctrination (this much is obvious since the Collectors were never swayed during the construction of the Human-Reaper by it instead of Harbinger) and likewise, do not know the impacts of a radiation blast upon such a being given the fact that Reapers also contain organic material within them.
For the last point, your opinion is based upon a mistrust of TIM and for that, I can't say that I really blame you. What I can say, however, is that TIM seems to have that "whatever it takes" attitude and yet also seems to understand that we are fighting an enemy we have no hope of understanding on our own. To make a Reaper would A. cost such an absurd amount of life that there would effectively be a lot less humans left for him to defend and B. has the highest probability of blowing up in his face given the God complex these things seem to have and seem to be incapable of unshackling. To assume that TIM would find a way to shackle a Reaper the sameway he could shackle EDI is a little implausible given a Reaper uses its programs to run the ship, which TIM did everything in his power to keep EDI from being able to do on her own (some evidence that even TIM knows there are limits to this technology). The more practical solution would be to simply build a ship with Reaper defense systems, Reaper weaponry with possible human modifications, and to have the ship run with an AI similar to EDI that has human crew members maintaining the rest (IE: A beefed up Normandy SR2). That or a fleet of immensely powerful Dreadnoughts on par with the Destiny Ascension, or even beyond the Destiny Ascension.
However, these advances are unpractical for the timeframe to stop the Reapers. What is far more likely is that the technology will be used to understand the Reapers and come up with an exploitable weakness, then building this fleet of ships to keep the other races in line.
Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:48 .
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