3478 réponses à ce sujet

[scotchtape622]

1. How do you know that building a Reaper is impossible?

2. You are apparently blind to communication. Very little of it has to do with what is said. Much more of it has with body language and what is not said.

[Nightwriter]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

You know, in real life, I probably would've kept the base, for a number of reasons.

I kept it in a few of my games but if I were to make a Shepard based off me in real life, I'd destroy it. I was disgusted by what it represented and to let Cerberus' paws on it would only further add insult to injury.

I'd even consider destroying it even it was the Alliance or the Council who'd recieve it.

See, I consider the only valid reason for keeping it is "it's necessary to save the galaxy".

Which is an invalid reason in the game, since you know damn well you can save the galaxy without it and bad things are going to happen if you give it to TIM.

Even if you don't metagame, as Shepard I would still be confident I could save humanity.

However, in reality, I think the reason would be valid.

[wulf3n]

smudboy wrote...
but he does have enough intel that to build a Human Reaper would be impossible.

He does? if you destroy the Base i guess he does, but what other intel does he have, that shows building a human reaper is impossible?

[smudboy]

scotchtape622 wrote...

1. How do you know that building a Reaper is impossible?
2. You are apparently blind to communication. Very little of it has to do with what is said. Much more of it has with body language and what is not said.

1. EDI says it would take millions of people.  TIM has all the information EDI gets (as is evidenced by getting info from EDI on scanning the base and knowing of giving off a radiation pulse, of in the worst playthrough of having a bunch of IFF capable ships, etc.)
Let's not forgot TIM spent the entire game trying to STOP the COLLECTORS from taking people.  Only at the end do we discover why they take people. If the Collectors, who have been doing this for 2 years didn't have enough time, then it is logistically impossible for TIM to be able to do this in any reasonable amount of time.  Let alone him actually wanting to protect humanity, not go full speed on the plan his enemy he wanted to eliminate was conducting.
2. Okay there buddy.  So Shepard mentioning about TIM building a Human Reaper had nothing to do with TIM considering/planning/(wtf you're talking about) building a Human Reaper.  Right.  I think I need to take more dumps to constitute the level of sh+t in here.

[Nightwriter]

smudboy wrote...

Tim never said he's considering or planning to build a Reaper.  That sentence proves nothing.  All it proves is TIM wants to save humanity.  It doesn't say how, what methods, or under what pretense.

It also doesn't say he's considering or planning to build a Reaper.  And there's no way you can determine he's considering it over what was said, or planning it.

He wants you to give him a Reaper-making machine.

Just sayin'.

[Whatever42]

He doesn't have to build human reapers. He might harvest batarians. oooh... a volus reaper! Ok, I'm never destroying the station again. The thought of a giant robot Volus rampaging through the citadel is just too awesome.



But while I agree with Scotch that TIM rules nothing out, do we honestly think that Cerberus has the ability to adapt the Collector technology? Even if they create a Reaper, could they control it? I think its just a good idea to blow up the station to keep Cerberus from hurting themselves again. Giving them the station would be like giving a toddler an automatic weapon.

[wulf3n]

smudboy wrote...
1. EDI says it would take millions of people.  TIM has all the information EDI gets (as is evidenced by getting info from EDI on scanning the base and knowing of giving off a radiation pulse, of in the worst playthrough of having a bunch of IFF capable ships, etc.)
Let's not forgot TIM spent the entire game trying to STOP the COLLECTORS from taking people.  Only at the end do we discover why they take people. If the Collectors, who have been doing this for 2 years didn't have enough time, then it is logistically impossible for TIM to be able to do this in any reasonable amount of time.  Let alone him actually wanting to protect humanity, not go full speed on the plan his enemy he wanted to eliminate was conducting.

Not really impossible. Highly Unlikely, but possible.

[scotchtape622]

smudboy wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...



1. How do you know that building a Reaper is impossible?

2. You are apparently blind to communication. Very little of it has to do with what is said. Much more of it has with body language and what is not said.

1. EDI says it would take millions of people. TIM has all the information EDI gets (as is evidenced by getting info from EDI on scanning the base and knowing of giving off a radiation pulse, of in the worst playthrough of having a bunch of IFF capable ships, etc.)

Let's not forgot TIM spent the entire game trying to STOP the COLLECTORS from taking people. Only at the end do we discover why they take people. If the Collectors, who have been doing this for 2 years didn't have enough time, then it is logistically impossible for TIM to be able to do this in any reasonable amount of time. Let alone him actually wanting to protect humanity, not go full speed on the plan his enemy he wanted to eliminate was conducting.

2. Okay there buddy. So Shepard mentioning about TIM building a Human Reaper had nothing to do with TIM considering/planning/(wtf you're talking about) building a Human Reaper. Right. I think I need to take more dumps to constitute the level of sh+t in here.

1. Who says it has to be a Human Reaper.



2. Of course what Sheppard says has something to do with it. To go back to the Pride and Ego Down technique, instead of denying that he would build a Reaper (which would be the intellegent thing to do, while trying to convince Sheppard), he justifies his previous immoral actions, implying that he is considering building a Reaper. Not only does that make sense psychologically, but in a litreray sense as well. Quite often in ME1 and ME2, BIoware provides information that makes your descion a lot easier to make if you "investigate" further. An example of this would be on Noveria, when you are deciding to kill the Queen or not. Most people, in a knee jerk reaction, might kill the Rachni, but if you investigate, it is made clear that the Queen is not hostile at all.

[Giggles_Manically]

Prophet of Truth. POLITICS.. how tiresome.

[Cammander Jazzy Shepard]

Last time I uploaded the Reaper IFF it got a virus and my crew almost got turned into a human smoothie! Just imagine what could happen if you didnt destroy the collector base. MAJOR SH!T MAN!

[wulf3n]

scotchtape622 wrote...
1. Who says it has to be a Human Reaper.

I can't remember all the specifics, but a lot of species aren't genetically suited to becoming reapers, like the protheans, Humanity is special because it is so diverse, i guess thats why the reapers wan't humans.

[Whatever42]

Shandepared wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm thinking you're still a teenager, right?

I think you're out of steam. I don't blame you, it's hard to defend an indefensible position.

Oh, I could go on all day. But you're not listening and no one else cares so it would be pointless. See, I am rational! 

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I'm thinking you're still a teenager, right?

I think you're out of steam. I don't blame you, it's hard to defend an indefensible position.

No, it's easy, you do it all the time.

[smudboy]

scotchtape622 wrote...

1. Who says it has to be a Human Reaper.

The narrative.  (EDI, Shepard.)

2. Of course what Sheppard says has something to do with it. To go back to the Pride and Ego Down technique

No we're not discussing that.  You yourself mentioned that a) the writer is not aware of this, the audience is not, c) this is not a military interrogation. Therefore, this is a useless point that exists purely in your mind and has no bearing on the interpretation of this scene.

, instead of denying that he would build a Reaper (which would be the intellegent thing to do, while trying to convince Sheppard),

He wouldn't have to deny anything.  Shepard made a comment, not a question.  TIM has no reason to defend himself.

he justifies his previous immoral actions, implying that he is considering building a Reaper.

TIM says he'll protect humanity at any cost.

He is not implying he is considering building a Reaper.

Shepard: I think you're a <insert opinion here>.  The next thing I know you'll be growing your own Reaper.
TIM: I like smoking and scotch.  I also like humans.  My goal is to save humanity from the Reapers, at any cost.  I've never hidden that from you.  Also, I like spaceships.

In those scenes, he's implying he likes smoking and scotch.  He's also implying he likes spaceships.  However this never happened.  Now replace spaceships with "building Reapers to further my goals."

Not only does that make sense psychologically,

You do not know the thoughts or motives of a fictional character that has a hologram, under the guise of your US military style interrogation technique, under a conversation about blowing up or saving an alien base.

You are reaching.

but in a litreray sense as well.

Pray, tell me: what literary sense does this make sense?

Quite often in ME1 and ME2, BIoware provides information that makes your descion a lot easier to make if you "investigate" further. An example of this would be on Noveria, when you are deciding to kill the Queen or not. Most people, in a knee jerk reaction, might kill the Rachni, but if you investigate, it is made clear that the Queen is not hostile at all.

These two situations have nothing to with the hidden motives or thoughts of a character.  Nothing.  In fact I don't even know why you're comparing these two.

Oh okay, so I do actually understand communication, and Shepard saying something does have some weight.  Whew, I thought I was ****ing retard there for a second because you said it was based on what was not said, and body language. While I'm at it, I'll see if I can read that hologram.  Here, let me put on my cap of Cold Reading +1 and see what I can divine what TIM's real name is.

[Whatever42]

Shandepared wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Oh, I could go on all day. But you're not listening and no one else cares so it would be pointless. See, I am rational! 

Not agreeing =/= not listening. This is why I called you stupid.

You're obviously young and still prone to senseless name calling. It's equally obvious that you've never studied philosophy or ethics. Sad to say but its simply not worth talking to you anymore. Have fun doing whatever you do.

[wulf3n]

Shandepared wrote...
In working to stop the Reapers they clearly aren't. Anyone who blows up the base is though.

Call it meta-gaming if you must, but i think due to the limited options with the base, compared to the possibilities, it's hard not to meta-game. Example, i didn't want to destroy the base, i didn't want to give it to TIM either, my first thought, tell TIM, i'm not gonna destroy it, if you let an Alliance science team do the research...but i wasn't given that obvious choice, which in turn sucked me out of the illusion, so i realized my decision had no real consequence decided to blow it up for the hell of it.

[Giggles_Manically]

The troll is strong with this thread.