3478 réponses à ce sujet

[atheelogos]

Ancaruin wrote...

Even if you blow the station,you can still salvage quite alot of technology, heck if the FAA can put together a crashed airliner from the bottom of the sea, why can't you rebuild the station from an explosion. Also, I considered all the ships and scrap floating around the accretion disk. There is probably more useful technology there, than from the Collector station.

Yes but your forgetting something. The base, or whats left of it, is in the galactic core. The only reason it could survive there is because the base created a mass effect field to keep it safe from the black hole. If you blow up the base then there is no way you can recover the whats left since that protective field would be gone. Hell the base probably would of been pulled past the event horizon by now anyway.

[Nightwriter]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

I never admitted I was not being rational about this. I am supremely rational.

No you aren't and I understand your philosophy just fine. I disagree with your philosophy. When you and all your people die your philosphy and morals die right along with you.

A rational and logical person would do everything they could to prevent this extinction and worry about the moral costs later. It is wrong to judge an entire race or species anyway, so at most the moral costs will be incurred on specific people. Worthy sacrifices, I say.

The fact that you are putting your own personal morals ahead of the survival of trillions of people means you are selfish and irrational.

You're also stupid.

I'm with Shand on this one. This is hilarious.

Anything he says is invalidated by the fact that he is an egotist. When a good person says something that is right, it's moving and has weight. When a lousy person says it, it means nothing.

The argument depends upon the certainty that keeping the base is what will save the galaxy, of which you cannot be sure.

The argument depends upon the basis that keeping the base will not somehow lead to the galaxy's destruction, of which you also cannot be sure.

One does need to consider the danger in taking technology that the Reapers will know how to use and manipulate into ourselves.

Comparing technology like the Thannix cannon or the relays is invalid. You must judge each piece of Reaper technology on a case by case basis.

[smudboy]

Shandepared wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

All my characters preserve the base.

The first time I did it I felt creeped out by TIM's smile at the end.

then I saw the enormous fleet of Reapers headed towards the galaxy and realized that I have bigger things to worry about.

This post is a breath of fresh air.

Tell me about it.  You get stuck with a guy with "morals", and I get US Army Hologram Interrogator Mindreader freakjob.

[atheelogos]

wulf3n wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
Nobody wants to play a game where compassionate and heroic figures get **** on the gritty reality of life in the universe.

Hell i do! i love it when games screw you over for trying to do the goody-goody thing all the time. Like Fallout 2, and Fallout 3. They even briefly touched upon in ME2, with that Asari Eclipse merc, who killed the volus.

I know right!! There needs to be real consequences for your actions good or bad. I'm all for the paragon route but not blindly so. My favorite example is this.

At the battle of the citadel you have 2 choices. Save the council or concentrate on sovereign. The problem is no matter what you do Sovereign will die. This is just silly to me. There should have been a wrong choice. Saving the council should have costed you battle. I think you should have lost to many ships in the process and in turn wouldn't of have enough ships to bring down Sovereigns shields.

But no instead the choice is meaningless because you win no matter what you do.

[Nightwriter]

Wtf is moral about saying, "There's no telling the damage TIM will unleash with this base?"

[atheelogos]

Shandepared wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

All my characters preserve the base.

The first time I did it I felt creeped out by TIM's smile at the end.

then I saw the enormous fleet of Reapers headed towards the galaxy and realized that I have bigger things to worry about.

This post is a breath of fresh air.

Indeed. I also want to note that TIM is not the nicest person in the world, but that should go without saying. And I agree with those who say we shouldn't trust him completely. Those fears are justified imo, but lets not forget what bioware said. TIM has the BEST and worst of humanity in him. So guys remember just because we haven't seen the good side of this man doesn't mean it isn't there. Food for thought.

[atheelogos]

Nightwriter wrote...

Wtf is moral about saying, "There's no telling the damage TIM will unleash with this base?"

As long as that damage is directed toward the Reapers I got no problem with that.

[Whatever42]

atheelogos wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
Nobody wants to play a game where compassionate and heroic figures get **** on the gritty reality of life in the universe.

Hell i do! i love it when games screw you over for trying to do the goody-goody thing all the time. Like Fallout 2, and Fallout 3. They even briefly touched upon in ME2, with that Asari Eclipse merc, who killed the volus.

I know right!! There needs to be real consequences for your actions good or bad. I'm all for the paragon route but not blindly so. My favorite example is this.

At the battle of the citadel you have 2 choices. Save the council or concentrate on sovereign. The problem is no matter what you do Sovereign will die. This is just silly to me. There should have been a wrong choice. Saving the council should have costed you battle. I think you should have lost to many ships in the process and in turn wouldn't of have enough ships to bring down Sovereigns shields.

But no instead the choice is meaningless because you win no matter what you do.

The choices Shepard makes shapes the end of the story but they don't impact whether ultimately Shepard is successful or not. However, I do agree that certain choices need to be more impactful. 

In the battle at the Citadel, saving the council strengthens humanity but letting them die simply means humanity is strengthened more. At this point, the difference seems rather minor. Perhaps it in ME3 we'll see a larger impact. 

It will be like KotOR, where at the end both paths lead to victory but in one Darth Revan stands victorious and in the other, you're the Saviour of the Republic. At the end of this, renegade Shepard will live in a universe where humanity is supreme as a sinister force, perhaps with Shepard replacing TIM at the centre of the web. While paragon Shepard will live in a Star Treky universe with humanity as just one race in a giant galactic group hug.

But no role playing choice will determine the success of the mission. 

[atheelogos]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Comparing technology like the Thannix cannon or the relays is invalid. You must judge each piece of Reaper technology on a case by case basis.

Okay then, what specifically is it about the Collector base that makes you think it will not provided successful or useful technologies like Sovereign's corpse did?

I don't understand the logic here. Sovereign was a Reaper. You blew it up. The pieces left over proved valuable when you studied them.

The Collector base builds Reapers. This time you can analyze the tech inside of a Reaper without having to blow it to smithereens first. Shouldn't this then most likely provide you with new technologies (or other knowledge) that will be useful?

Not to mention proof to the council that the Reapers are real and headed for us.

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Comparing technology like the Thannix cannon or the relays is invalid. You must judge each piece of Reaper technology on a case by case basis.

Okay then, what specifically is it about the Collector base that makes you think it will not provided successful or useful technologies like Sovereign's corpse did?

I don't understand the logic here. Sovereign was a Reaper. You blew it up. The pieces left over proved valuable when you studied them.

The Collector base builds Reapers. This time you can analyze the tech inside of a Reaper without having to blow it to smithereens first. Shouldn't this then most likely provide you with new technologies (or other knowledge) that will be useful?

I will explain my logic.

The pieces proved valuable when we reproduced technology based off of them.

TIM wants to use the base's technology itself.

People have suggested that the pieces of Sovereign's wreckage were damaging and caused indoctrination.

I consider almost every other organization in the galaxy more competent at researching dangerous technology than Cerberus.

This base is not a mass relay, not a Reaper, and not a Thannix cannon: it is a Reaper-making factory, and it's dangers could be infinitely greater. We have never encountered such a thing before.

[Nightwriter]

atheelogos wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Wtf is moral about saying, "There's no telling the damage TIM will unleash with this base?"

As long as that damage is directed toward the Reapers I got no problem with that.

As long as you appreciate the power of foreshadowing, you know the damage will not be totally directed at the Reapers.

[atheelogos]

Nightwriter wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Comparing technology like the Thannix cannon or the relays is invalid. You must judge each piece of Reaper technology on a case by case basis.

Okay then, what specifically is it about the Collector base that makes you think it will not provided successful or useful technologies like Sovereign's corpse did?

I don't understand the logic here. Sovereign was a Reaper. You blew it up. The pieces left over proved valuable when you studied them.

The Collector base builds Reapers. This time you can analyze the tech inside of a Reaper without having to blow it to smithereens first. Shouldn't this then most likely provide you with new technologies (or other knowledge) that will be useful?

I will explain my logic.

The pieces proved valuable when we reproduced technology based off of them.

TIM wants to use the base's technology itself.

People have suggested that the pieces of Sovereign's wreckage were damaging and caused indoctrination.

I consider almost every other organization in the galaxy more competent at researching dangerous technology than Cerberus.

This base is not a mass relay, not a Reaper, and not a Thannix cannon: it is a Reaper-making factory, and it's dangers could be infinitely greater. We have never encountered such a thing before.

"TIM wants to use the base's technology itself" I don't believe he said that. For all we know he just wants the data inside. We'll just have to wait and see I guess

" We have never encountered such a thing before." So we should shy away from it? With that logic we should never have used the tech we found on Mars.

[atheelogos]

Nightwriter wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Wtf is moral about saying, "There's no telling the damage TIM will unleash with this base?"

As long as that damage is directed toward the Reapers I got no problem with that.

As long as you appreciate the power of foreshadowing, you know the damage will not be totally directed at the Reapers.

Yes I can't know for certain, but its highly improbable that he wouldn't use it against our allies. He wants to strengthing humanity not insight a was against us.

Modifié par atheelogos, 29 juillet 2010 - 03:24 .

[thegreateski]

Preventing TIM from unleashing the power of the base on the other races of the galaxy is a mute point if we're all suffering a major case of death by Reaper.

[Nightwriter]

atheelogos wrote...

"TIM wants to use the base's technology itself" I don't believe he said that. For all we know he just wants the data inside. We'll just have to wait and see I guess

I believe he does. Like, I think he wants to use the base itself, just like he wanted to use the husks themselves. There are so many things in the base he would find useful and powerful.

I realize this is interpretive. I just think back to the gleam in his eye when he says, "We could use this, Shepard! Against the Reapers and beyond!" And he says he wants to "use the technology in this base".

atheelogos wrote...

" We have never encountered such a thing before." So we should shy away from it? With that logic we should never have used the tech we found on Mars.

Please. This sounds like the "there's some things we weren't meant to understand!" argument, which I loathe.

I'm only making the point that you cannot say that just because the relays are safe, and the Thannix cannon is safe, this base is safe. Know what I mean?

Modifié par Nightwriter, 29 juillet 2010 - 03:20 .

[Spartas Husky]

WHy not blow it up, who here wouldn't want to be in a high speed escape from a sun like explosion... some have to say that woudl be kool.. and the explosion would kill nobody special... except clones.. so is a win win right?



Biig explosion, escaped by the just a hair's distance... that is nice lol

[atheelogos]

Nightwriter wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"TIM wants to use the base's technology itself" I don't believe he said that. For all we know he just wants the data inside. We'll just have to wait and see I guess

I believe he does. Like, I think he wants to use the base itself, just like he wanted to use the husks themselves. There are so many things in the base he would find useful and powerful.

I realize this is interpretive. I just think back to the gleam in his eye when he says, "We could use this, Shepard! Against the Reapers and beyond!" And he says he wants to "use the technology in this base".

atheelogos wrote...

" We have never encountered such a thing before." So we should shy away from it? With that logic we should never have used the tech we found on Mars.

Please. This sounds like the "there's some things we weren't meant to understand!" argument, which I loathe.

I'm only making the point that you cannot say that just because the relays are safe, and the Thannix cannon is safe, this base is safe. Know what I mean?

"Please. This sounds like the "there's some things we weren't meant to understand!" argument, which I loathe." I with you 110% on this one!! I hate that argument as well. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth

"Know what I mean?" Yes I understand where your coming from. But with that said we should at least inspect the base to see if it could be helpful or not. Trying to judge it at  a glance is a mistake imho.

[wulf3n]

Why are our only 2 options destroy the base or give it to TIM? what we can't give it to the Alliance? or the Council? TIM's been pretty lenient so far with Shepards methods so far, i doubt he will try and stop you!

This is why i meta-game, because the game itself is so limiting, i realize that my choices are ultimately meaningless, so i may as well go full paragon, or full renegade.

[Nightwriter]

atheelogos wrote...

"Please. This sounds like the "there's some things we weren't meant to understand!" argument, which I loathe." I with you 110% on this one!! I hate that argument as well. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth

I know you weren't. I wasn't trying to be hostile.

It's just that, when you destroy the base, certain people automatically assume you're a specific type of person.

Naive, moral to the point of stupidity, self-righteous, irrational, ignorant... you get the idea.

atheelogos wrote...

"Know what I mean?" Yes I understand where your coming from. But with that said we should at least inspect the base to see if it could be helpful or not. Trying to judge it at  a glance is a mistake imho.

I really agree. I really wish I could've inspected the base before I agreed to hand it over to him, but I couldn't.

You sort of have to make the decision on the fly, which is lame. You really should inspect it to see if it's all right to keep it as much as you should inspect it to see if it's all right to destroy it.

[atheelogos]

Shandepared wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Not to mention proof to the council that the Reapers are real and headed for us.

Honestly I doubt the base would convince them but it's worth a shot.

Nightwriter wrote...

I will explain my logic.

This is going to hurt.

Nightwriter wrote...

The pieces proved valuable when we reproduced technology based off of them.

TIM wants to use the base's technology itself.

Why do you assume that?

Nightwriter wrote...

People have suggested that the pieces of Sovereign's wreckage were damaging and caused indoctrination.

Baseless speculation made by stupid people.

Nightwriter wrote...

I consider almost every other organization in the galaxy more competent at researching dangerous technology than Cerberus.

Why?

Nightwriter wrote...

This base is not a mass relay, not a Reaper, and not a Thannix cannon: it is a Reaper-making factory, and it's dangers could be infinitely greater. We have never encountered such a thing before.

If its dangerous we can blow it up later. What I think is far more dangerous is blindly trudging into this fight with billion year old dreadnaughts of unparalleled power without knowing anything substantial about them.

If the Collector base is dangerous then a Cerberus team gets killed.

If we don't have the intel and/or technology we need to match the Reapers in the coming fight then millions, or billions, or even trillions (and perhaps even more) get killed.

That last thing you said there is liquid gold! Imho lol

"Honestly I doubt the base would convince them but it's worth a shot." Hell we may have more evidence than that. Remember all those monitoring devices TIM has on board? Whos to say there weren't some on the outside of the ship as well? We could give a full account of what happened frame by frame. But that to is just speculation on my part.

But lets not forget the pics that joker somehow got. The council can't ignore that. Unless the writers make them unbelievably studpid again....

Modifié par atheelogos, 29 juillet 2010 - 03:38 .

[Legion 2.5]

I would preserve it to see what happens in ME3 but I mostly go paragon and destroy but I would like to see what happens in ME3.