3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Asheer_Khan]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

All i see in this thread is bunch of BLIND people lured by promise of something what can't even be here and absolute ridiculous overconfidence and arrogance that humans will be able to achieve something what THOUSAND Prothean scientists hidden on Illos were unable to do aka understand how reapers are build.

And dean in matter of fact it's YOU who are all time WRONG in every single aspect.

GOOD DAY SIR!

Good argument. The Protheans didn't have near as much information on the Reapers as we did now. We caught a Reaper in development. The Protheans never had an opportunity like we have now. Also, when you make sweeping statements disrespecting another's arguments, use correct grammar.

here we go again.... grammar card tossing to discussion... i can't recall how many times i saw this card played when counterpart lack of argument to turn tides in his/her favor.

However you are wrong in one aspect.
Are you forget because of what circumstances  forced protheans to hide on Illos?
Ther empire lays in ruins ant thousand reaper ships ravaged entire galaxy and you tell me that they don't have opportunity to study them?
Then how they could learn TRUE purpose of the Keepers on Citadel not to mention discover proper frequency to jam reaper signal ordering keepers activation of the Citadel relay?

Lucky guess?... OR they DID direct deal with reaper tech?

But like Kal R'egar say "It's hard to study something when over your head flying thousand huge ships and on land crawling thousand troops searching for survivors..."

To end my "contribution" to this debate i will say to all pro cerberus lovers and base keeping fanatics.

"Play your game as you please but and i will play my game as i please and we shall see who will have last laught".

[Dean_the_Young]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

All i see in this thread is bunch of BLIND people lured by promise of something what can't even be here and absolute ridiculous overconfidence and arrogance that humans will be able to achieve something what THOUSAND Prothean scientists hidden on Illos were unable to do aka understand how reapers are build.

And dean in matter of fact it's YOU who are all time WRONG in every single aspect.

GOOD DAY SIR!

Good argument. The Protheans didn't have near as much information on the Reapers as we did now. We caught a Reaper in development. The Protheans never had an opportunity like we have now. Also, when you make sweeping statements disrespecting another's arguments, use correct grammar.

However you are wrong in one aspect.
Are you forget because of what circumstances  forced protheans to hide on Illos?
Ther empire lays in ruins ant thousand reaper ships ravaged entire galaxy and you tell me that they don't have opportunity to study them?
Then how they could learn TRUE purpose of the Keepers on Citadel not to mention discover proper frequency to jam reaper signal ordering keepers activation of the Citadel relay?

Lucky guess?... OR they DID direct deal with reaper tech?

Lucky guess more than the other, since the Illos facility, hidden as it was before the Reaper attack, had no opportunity to make contact with live reaper technology.

Because, you know, contact would have meant discovery and subsequent obliteration.

Illos survived because it was off the net. The rest of the Protheans didn't know where it was after the loss of the Citadel (or else the Reapers would have found it from those conquests), and so they couldn't get Reaper tech to them. And, in reverse, Illos didn't go out to get it.

Nothing in ME1 ever suggested the Illos scientists made any attempt to make a Reaper of their own.

To end my "contribution" to this debate i will say to all pro cerberus lovers and base keeping fanatics.

"Play your game as you please but and i will play my game as i please and we shall see who will have last laught".

Laught? 

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

here we go again.... grammar card tossing to discussion... i can't recall how many times i saw this card played when counterpart lack of argument to turn tides in his/her favor.

However you are wrong in one aspect.
Are you forget because of what circumstances  forced protheans to hide on Illos?
Ther empire lays in ruins ant thousand reaper ships ravaged entire galaxy and you tell me that they don't have opportunity to study them?
Then how they could learn TRUE purpose of the Keepers on Citadel not to mention discover proper frequency to jam reaper signal ordering keepers activation of the Citadel relay?

Lucky guess?... OR they DID direct deal with reaper tech?

But like Kal R'egar say "It's hard to study something when over your head flying thousand huge ships and on land crawling thousand troops searching for survivors..."

To end my "contribution" to this debate i will say to all pro cerberus lovers and base keeping fanatics.

"Play your game as you please but and i will play my game as i please and we shall see who will have last laught".

I don't understand why people cannot just write sentences that makes sense and do not force me to fill in the gaps with words you forgot. Yes, they were hiding for survival. They did not have the opportunity to dissect a Reaper making factory without having to worry about immediate extinction. Yes, they made strides in Reaper tech, but we have the potential to do more. As for the Kal'Reegar quote (whose name you slaughtered, please do a 10 second google search), well that one works in my favor. The Protheans couldn't study the Reapers because they were too busy trying to not get wiped out by them. As for your last comment, it is well known that Bioware will allow a way for base destroyers to defeat the Reapers, but in a role-playing game, I try to make my decisions based on the fact that the odds are against us in terms of the fight with the Reapers. I'm going to give galactic society every chance I can to survive.

[Dean_the_Young]

You and your soft heart. Clearly we should take the path of the most casualties, so that we might dance on the graves of the lost and gloat of our moral superiority.

[lovgreno]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

There is one thing that implies that there are more collectors out there: The cruiser contained millions of pods wich implied that they was going to target Earth itself. For that they need much more than that frankly rather frail ship. Just implications, I admit but still something to consider.

It implies the opposite about there being more Collector Cruisers, actually: if there was another Collector Cruiser, they wouldn't need each to be so over-stocked with capacity. The Collector Cruiser already has more capacity than it needs for the entire Terminus systems, and we know that it doesn't wait until full before returning to base. If there was another one, two, or three, they could cut the capacity and put in more systems of other use.

While the desireability of more fighter/combat ships is obvious, the presence of more cruisers now is not.(And, come to that, we never really get an idea of how frail the ship is: did it flee Horizon because it had to, or were the turrents the excuse and cover to lay a trap to catch Shepard once and for all?)

Good points. The collector cruisers primary function was harvesting humans. The huge ship was taking heavy damage from Horizons defences that was made to stop small ships and torpedoes. If it had weapons to fire back at the laser batteries it didn't use them for some reason. But since it was built for bigger, and therefore very well defended, harvests than the human colonies I still wonder what backup they were planning to give it. If that backup had been near the base it would have aided in the defence. More ships could be the answer but then again why didn't they protect the Cruiser after Horizon? But this is of course just my rather wild speculations.

[lovgreno]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You and your soft heart. Clearly we should take the path of the most casualties, so that we might dance on the graves of the lost and gloat of our moral superiority.

Perhaps that is how it will go. But Shepard doesnt have the ability to tell the future. Or perhaps the decision to not remove the threat to every living human that is the base for the faint hope of finding a deus ex machina to fix everything with the push of a button will lead to every thing Shepard accomplished in ME2 being for nothing. Only the writers know.

[Crespire]

@Dean_the_young

So, the obvious tech is the Reaper itself, right? Then what other evidence of "advanced" Collector technology are you pointing to? Scions? Praetorians? Pretty sure we defeat those on a regular basis. Collector Beam Weapons? They don't seem punch through our shields or anything like that, hell we even developed something similar (Thanix), based on Reaper technology. So it comes down to this: you want the tech to
build a Reaper, then sure, keep the base. I just see the keeping of the
base as a stepping stone to the next Reaper threat, and I'd rather
stomp that out now, while I can.

Now, let me get this straight, Reaper technology definitely did benefit us. We got EDI, Thanix, etc. The problem I have with the base is that most of what we do know already about the Reapers, we've already collected by other means. Aside from building our own Reaper, there's no reason to expect we'd discover anything new. Due to indoctrination, Collectors lack intelligence and self-awareness.
They are more or less organic mechs, and I highly doubt they would have any information that the Collector General did not give to them through the whole "possession" process.

Let me stress again, the only technology we are guaranteed to find in the Collector base is the Reaper constructing technology. I see this as a way for the Reapers to get the hand on us down the road (longer term than the immediate threat), and so I think it is prudent to destroy it.

Modifié par Crespire, 02 août 2010 - 06:10 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Crespire wrote...

@Dean_the_young

So, the obvious tech is the Reaper itself, right?

Maybe not obvious enough for people like you.

 Then what other evidence of "advanced" Collector technology are you pointing to? Scions? Praetorians? Pretty sure we defeat those on a regular basis.

Simply because it's easy to destroy doesn't mean something isn't advanced, or useful: just look at most modern day technology. Heck, Scions and Praetorians are more durable than most the foes we face.

Simply being beyond our ability to reproduce and match makes them more advanced than what we can do. No mech of ours works as well as an Abomination for self-destruct charges, no machine can match a Scion's biotic onslaught, and a Praetorian could match YMIR's any day with it's strong biotic fields.

What do we, the galaxy, have that can be as biotically potent and yet so cheap in cost and loss of life?

Collector Beam Weapons? They don't seem punch through our shields or anything like that, hell we even developed something similar (Thanix), based on Reaper technology.

The beam weapon of the Collector Ship tore through the Normandy's shields like ribbons: the personel weapon is considered a heavy weapon ideal for doing just that.

Now, let me get this straight, Reaper technology definitely did benefit us. We got EDI, Thanix, etc. The problem I have with the base is that most of what we do know already about the Reapers, we've already collected by other means. Aside from building our own Reaper, there's no reason to expect we'd discover anything new. Due to indoctrination, Collectors lack intelligence and self-awareness.

Yes. Because those scraps of Sovereign we collected had everything we could reasonably expect to learn from the Reapers.

They are more or less organic mechs, and I highly doubt they would have any information that the Collector General did not give to them through the whole "possession" process.

The Collectors are dead. Their systems, their computer data banks, the machines with which the produce everything that is years above the current galactic standard, is not.

[Dean_the_Young]

Luc0s wrote...

Some people are taking this dicussion WAY to far and WAY to serious. ; Come on people, get a life. It's a game you're discussing about, JUST A GAME! Chill the f*ck down. This almost looks like a random YouTube debate between a creationist and an evolutionist, lol!

PS: I'm obviously talking about Dean, Asheer and some others here.

It's a nice and refreshing change of person who cuses and freaks out IN ALL CAPS when telling other people to take it easy.

Not necessarily a credible person, but a change.

[Spartas Husky]

they like to argue, and is a good way to vent steam instead of the real world. They practice typing, debate, and other nice social skills.



Is not bad, as long as it remains civil and within ME2. We can watch the colessium games between them with popcorn in hand, and soda....which now I mention it, I ran out

[Dean_the_Young]

lovgreno wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You and your soft heart. Clearly we should take the path of the most casualties, so that we might dance on the graves of the lost and gloat of our moral superiority.

Perhaps that is how it will go. But Shepard doesnt have the ability to tell the future. Or perhaps the decision to not remove the threat to every living human that is the base for the faint hope of finding a deus ex machina to fix everything with the push of a button will lead to every thing Shepard accomplished in ME2 being for nothing. Only the writers know.

It's hard to predict the future. It's much easier to identify trends that will affect things one way or another.

[Dean_the_Young]

Luc0s wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Some people are taking this dicussion WAY to far and WAY to serious. ; Come on people, get a life. It's a game you're discussing about, JUST A GAME! Chill the f*ck down. This almost looks like a random YouTube debate between a creationist and an evolutionist, lol!

PS: I'm obviously talking about Dean, Asheer and some others here.

It's a nice and refreshing change of person who cuses and freaks out IN ALL CAPS when telling other people to take it easy.

Not necessarily a credible person, but a change.

How does my use of language on a forum concern you? It's about what you say, not how you say it. ;-) And I think I made a decent point. You people are taking this stuff way to serious. But hey, whatever floats your boat right?

Concern me? Well, you directly involved me by calling my name.

I was just pointing out that the irony that you, who were cussing and were far more in arms than peoplel like myself, who aren't cussing or ALL CAPS or anything else.

[Cheese Elemental]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Some people are taking this dicussion WAY to far and WAY to serious. ; Come on people, get a life. It's a game you're discussing about, JUST A GAME! Chill the f*ck down. This almost looks like a random YouTube debate between a creationist and an evolutionist, lol!

PS: I'm obviously talking about Dean, Asheer and some others here.

It's a nice and refreshing change of person who cuses and freaks out IN ALL CAPS when telling other people to take it easy.

Not necessarily a credible person, but a change.

How does my use of language on a forum concern you? It's about what you say, not how you say it. ;-) And I think I made a decent point. You people are taking this stuff way to serious. But hey, whatever floats your boat right?

Concern me? Well, you directly involved me by calling my name.

I was just pointing out that the irony that you, who were cussing and were far more in arms than peoplel like myself, who aren't cussing or ALL CAPS or anything else.

He's right though. Shand is particular is using a moral decision in a VIDEO GAME to judge people and claim superiority over them.

Modifié par Cheese Elemental, 02 août 2010 - 10:28 .

[smudboy]

Cheese Elemental wrote...
He's right though. Shand is particular is using a moral decision in a VIDEO GAME to judge people and claim superiority over them.

1. When was saving the base reduced to a moral decision?  My analysis points a choice made various reason, and another made purely on emotion.
2. Shand and Dean are arguing based on a large body of evidence and deductions to support their opinion.  Shand is like the Cliff Notes to Dean's encylopedia.
3. People can't seem to grasp the superiority of their arguments, and might take what the say personally.  The classic is "it's just a VIDEO GAME".  Oh.  Like you did.

Well nevermind then.

[ThisIsMadness91]

Luc0s wrote...

Some people are taking this dicussion WAY to far and WAY to serious. ; Come on people, get a life. It's a game you're discussing about, JUST A GAME! Chill the f*ck down. This almost looks like a random YouTube debate between a creationist and an evolutionist, lol!

PS: I'm obviously talking about Dean, Asheer and some others here.

That's the feeling I get at times when these kinds of discussions turn up.

[Cheese Elemental]

smudboy wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...
He's right though. Shand is particular is using a moral decision in a VIDEO GAME to judge people and claim superiority over them.

3. People can't seem to grasp the superiority of their arguments, and might take what the say personally.  The classic is "it's just a VIDEO GAME".  Oh.  Like you did.

Well nevermind then.

I'm not trying to cop-out here, nor am I arguing for or against keeping the base (as I can see both sides of the argument are equally valid in hindsight). I'm just pointing something out.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

He's right though. Shand is particular is using a moral decision in a VIDEO GAME to judge people and claim superiority over them.

It's always liberal democrats who play paragon and destroy the base.

Why do I get the feeling you're purposefully looking for confrontations as of late?

[Dean_the_Young]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

He's right though. Shand is particular is using a moral decision in a VIDEO GAME to judge people and claim superiority over them.

It's always liberal democrats who play paragon and destroy the base.

Why do I get the feeling you're purposefully looking for confrontations as of late?

You couldn't hear the sarcasm in that?

It was as dry as sand blasting a saltine ******.

[Crespire]

Shandepared wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

He's right though. Shand is particular is using a moral decision in a VIDEO GAME to judge people and claim superiority over them.

It's always liberal democrats who play paragon and destroy the base.

But we'd be called socalist by Glenn Beck!

Also, Dean_the_young it was nice doing a back and fourth from you, but you can never seem to stay away from the "you are obviously retarded" angle, so I conceed, someone on the internet thinks I am illogical, though I think the same of him.

I destroy the base because it's our chance to stop the Reaper cycle completely, and not leave any loose ends. And that's really the primary reason, above and beyond what tech might be in it, I just thought I'd humor you. I was quite amused.

Modifié par Crespire, 03 août 2010 - 03:36 .

[smudboy]

Crespire wrote...
I destroy the base because it's our chance to stop the Reaper cycle completely,

Come again?

Cause they're still coming, you know?

and not leave any loose ends. And that's really the primary reason, above and beyond what tech might be in it, I just thought I'd humor you. I was quite amused.

Wouldn't the info and tech help you stop the Reapers that are...coming for you right now?

[Crespire]

smudboy wrote...

Crespire wrote...
I destroy the base because it's our chance to stop the Reaper cycle completely,

Come again?

Cause they're still coming, you know?

and not leave any loose ends. And that's really the primary reason, above and beyond what tech might be in it, I just thought I'd humor you. I was quite amused.

Wouldn't the info and tech help you stop the Reapers that are...coming for you right now?

If you'd read, I said "stop the cycle completely" I didn't figure I'd have to make that much clear to you, but it seems I have to. I know they're on their way, but I am confident we will stop them.

I think maybe you should go to bed, and try again in the morning

Modifié par Crespire, 03 août 2010 - 03:50 .