3478 réponses à ce sujet

[poisonoustea]

Building Reapers to stop Reapers? How sensible. And after the galaxy is saved, we'll ask them to mow our lawns.

[Inverness Moon]

poisonoustea wrote...

Building Reapers to stop Reapers? How sensible. And after the galaxy is saved, we'll ask them to mow our lawns.

If you think saving the collector base means we're going to use it to build reapers then you're not doing much thinking.

[poisonoustea]

Considering that the whole complex had that only purpose, what else would TIM use it for?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

poisonoustea wrote...

Considering that the whole complex had that only purpose, what else would TIM use it for?

I still don't understand how people could possibly think that the only knowledge to be gained from saving the collector base is building a reaper and nothing more. Even if the base only had reaper making capabilities, we could learn so much from portions of construction of a reaper that are a miniscule contribution to the structure as a whole. The point is with that much technology available there will be incredible breakthroughs without anything close to a reaper ever being built.

[Yeti13]

For 3 reasons:



1.Giving the IM the finger



2. How many humans (and other victims, don't forget that the collecters abducted and traded sentient beings for a long time, not just humans) died in that place, How many more if the IM got ahold of it. How do u even attempt to get the other species to help u if you say that you just handed the keys to the most disgusting place in the galaxy to the IM



3. BW designed the game to be able to played with the destruction so obviously theres another way to beat the Reapers

[atheelogos]

poisonoustea wrote...

Considering that the whole complex had that only purpose, what else would TIM use it for?

How do you know that was the only purpose?

[NErWOnek]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

I fail to see the point in doing it. Preserving the base seemed convientient and perhaps increased the chances of getting collector weapons and tech in ME3. I don't get why the majority of the community destroy it. The last person I asked just said it was "to get a more satifying explosion" but it seems like more than that.

We wouldn't like seeing more people get mass indoctrinated, now would we ?
And what makes You think that Cerberus could manage a corpse of yet another reaper, this one even tho dead, won't be fighting with the gravity of a sun and will be free to mess around in the minds of lower beings.
Not to mention that the base's location is extremely dangerous and getting there is a near suicide...
Moreover there are swarms of tiny things trying to paralyze all living things in the station... You didn't kill them off in the game, did you ?

There are so many reasons as to why keeping this station is a big mistake...

[poisonoustea]

Moreover there are swarms of tiny things trying to paralyze all living things in the station... You didn't kill them off in the game, did you ?

In either case, all Collectors will be dead by the time you leave the station.

[Dean_the_Young]

NErWOnek wrote...

We wouldn't like seeing more people get mass indoctrinated, now would we ?

If you hate Cerberus, the chance that Cerberus gets hit and some scientists get turned into husks locked on the far side of the galaxy isn't exactly much loss.

If you don't hate Cerberus, the ability to circumvent indoctrination by using VI/AI controlled robots to infiltrate the base and turn off the indoctrination source, or to just cycle scientists regularly, if there is any indoctrination signal in the first place. (Something we're never told or implied by Shepard and his crew.)

And what makes You think that Cerberus could manage a corpse of yet another reaper, this one even tho dead, won't be fighting with the gravity of a sun and will be free to mess around in the minds of lower beings.

Robots.

(Not that we were given any sign that the Derilect Reaper was indoctrinating any less because it was staying up: both actions were described as automatic.)

Not to mention that the base's location is extremely dangerous and getting there is a near suicide...

Not really. Once Shepard and the Normandy trailblazed, other Cerberus ships can follow: if Shepard dies but saves the base, you can even see a hologram of them arriving.

Moreover there are swarms of tiny things trying to paralyze all living things in the station... You didn't kill them off in the game, did you ?

How does a host of (possibly living and, therefore, killed) bugs locked in one chamber that can be dealt with given time invalidate the whole station?

There are so many reasons as to why keeping this station is a big mistake...

Well, if they're all as minor and easily circumvented as the ones you're bringing up here, not much serious risk at all.

[poisonoustea]

Well, if they're all as minor and easily circumvented [...]

If you don't hate Cerberus, the ability to circumvent indoctrination by using VI/AI controlled robots to infiltrate the base and turn off the indoctrination source (aka the tech you're studying), or to just cycle scientists regularly if there is any indoctrination signal in the first place.

That doesn't qualify as "easily circumvented" in my book... When indoctrination shows up, it's often too late. Replacing scientists when they start to go crazy - if you can manage to spot indoctrination in time - is just too inefficient to get things done before the Reapers arrive.

VI are not enough to do that kind of work and certainly not all AI are cute like EDI. In fact, we have significant proof of the contrary.

[Aedan_Cousland]

If you save the Collector base the technology is going to Cerberus and the Illusive Man. If there is anyone that can't be trusted with Collector/Reaper tech, it is Cerberus and the Illusive Man. I'd rather destroy it than hand it over to IM. In fact, I hope we get to destroy IM and Cerberus in ME3 as well.

[Dean_the_Young]

poisonoustea wrote...

Well, if they're all as minor and easily circumvented [...]

If you don't hate Cerberus, the ability to circumvent indoctrination by using VI/AI controlled robots to infiltrate the base and turn off the indoctrination source (aka the tech you're studying), or to just cycle scientists regularly if there is any indoctrination signal in the first place.

That doesn't qualify as "easily circumvented" in my book... When indoctrination shows up, it's often too late. Replacing scientists when they start to go crazy - if you can manage to spot indoctrination in time - is just too inefficient to get things done before the Reapers arrive.

Indoctrination signs (hearing whispers, strange thoughts) shows up before one is fully indoctrinated: the farmers of Eden Prime, or the Derilect Reaper crew before they were indoctrinated (which, as we know, simply had them turn themselves into husks). The 'too late' aspect is by the time you realize you are indoctrinated and can't resist it, it is too late. It's the point of no more resistence, not the point of recognition.

Shepard has been exposed to known Reaper indoctrination many times, from Sovereign to Dragon's Teeth to the Derilect Reaper. Limiting exposure and giving recovery space are safe enough. Bothersome and tedius for progress, perhaps, but not hard to get around.

VI are not enough to do that kind of work and certainly not all AI are cute like EDI. In fact, we have significant proof of the contrary.

VI and remote control are certainly enough to find and stop a signal field. And if not all AI are like EDI, well it's a good thing Cerberus can build another EDI.

Or, hey, just ask to borrow EDI herself for a minute. It's not like she didn't hack through the Collector Base during the mission for blue prints and base data: give her more time as the search goes on, and why shouldn't she be able to find any built-in indoctrination device data as well?

[Eber]

People focus too much on the illusive man. The Cerberus people you meet in the game are reasonable folks that wouldn't have gone along with anything just because he said so. It's not like his followers think he is devine. If the illusive man goes off the deep end people will stop following him and he will lose his power. He has no real control over his people like say a government, no loyal army indoctrinated over generations ("I am an alliance soldier. It's in my blood"), no control of the press or anything. Nobody loves Cerberus like some might love the United States or what ever. All the illusive man has are some random mercenaries/hitmen/scientiests etc that, much like Shepard, work for him aslong as it serves their own goals (usually a nice pay check). And much like Shepard these people all have a breaking point where they will stop following.

For these reasons it would be difficult for the illusive man to use the technology for something really sinister even if he wanted to (which I'm sure he does, most people do want to rule the world). Someone would tell on him and the real powerhouses of the galaxy (the turian, salarian and human armies) would rain down on him aided by Shepard and other prominent dissidents. It would be like melding with Morinth, sure the prize is great but the risk? Do you really think the illusive man would meld with Morinth?

Modifié par Eber, 15 août 2010 - 02:02 .

[Torhagen]

Eber wrote...

People focus too much on the illusive man. The Cerberus people you meet in the game are reasonable folks that wouldn't have gone along with anything just because he said so. It's not like his followers think he is devine. If the illusive man goes off the deep end people will stop following him and he will lose his power. He has no real control over his people like say a government, no loyal army indoctrinated over generations ("I am an alliance soldier. It's in my blood"), no control of the press or anything. Nobody loves Cerberus like some might love the United States or what ever. All the illusive man has are some random mercenaries/hitmen/scientiests etc that, much like Shepard, work for him aslong as it serves their own goals (usually a nice pay check). And much like Shepard these people all have a breaking point where they will stop following.

For these reasons it would be difficult for the illusive man to use the technology for something really sinister even if he wanted to (which I'm sure he does, most people do want to rule the world). Someone would tell on him and the real powerhouses of the galaxy (the turian, salarian and human armies) would rain down on him aided by Shepard and other prominent dissidents. It would be like melding with Morinth, sure the prize is great but the risk? Do you really think the illusive man would meld with Morinth?

i guess you base your opinions solely on the game i recommend you to read Ascension for example

[gi0m]

I chose to save it first. But what really disturbed me is this:





Fricking subliminal illusive man peeking over the human reaper.



This feels so very very wrong.

So I'm gonna blow the **** out of the collector's base on next playthrought.





But actually, I really don't thnik it'll have a major impact on ME3. knowing how BW love to joke about the impact of our choice, I already see it turned into an optional mission on ME3.



"Ah yes, Shepard, remember the collector ship? We sent a scientist team over there, they turned into husks. You have to get there and kill them all."

[didymos1120]

gi0m wrote...

I chose to save it first. But what really disturbed me is this:


Fricking subliminal illusive man peeking over the human reaper.

It doesn't mean anything.   There's an overlay placed on the background in the upper right corner for every talking hologram in the game, and they follow the camera.  You normally don't see them because stuff in the foreground hides it. In this case, however, there's nothing outside that part of the roof, so you catch a glimpse of it as the camera pans past that little gap between sections.  That overlay in turn is created from the actual model of TIM that is physically present in the level.  He's hiding in a little black room waaaaay outside the chamber (click to enlarge):




In flycam mode, you can see these objects for any hologram in the game: the Council, Shep during conferences with TIM, the ads on the Citadel, etc.

[mosor]

gi0m wrote...

I chose to save it first. But what really disturbed me is this:


Fricking subliminal illusive man peeking over the human reaper.

This feels so very very wrong.
So I'm gonna blow the **** out of the collector's base on next playthrought.

That's just a bug, it's hard to even determine if that really is the illusive man. He pops out in a transmission the very next scene.

[didymos1120]

mosor wrote...

gi0m wrote...

I chose to save it first. But what really disturbed me is this:


Fricking subliminal illusive man peeking over the human reaper.

This feels so very very wrong.
So I'm gonna blow the **** out of the collector's base on next playthrought.

That's just a bug, it's hard to even determine if that really is the illusive man. He pops out in a transmission the very next scene.

Not a bug: see above.  They just forgot to place something there to obstruct the view of the background.  And yes: it's TIM.  Or rather, the image from which the TIM hologram is created.

[mosor]

didymos1120 wrote...

mosor wrote...

gi0m wrote...

I chose to save it first. But what really disturbed me is this:


Fricking subliminal illusive man peeking over the human reaper.

This feels so very very wrong.
So I'm gonna blow the **** out of the collector's base on next playthrought.

That's just a bug, it's hard to even determine if that really is the illusive man. He pops out in a transmission the very next scene.

Not a bug: see above.  They just forgot to place something there to obstruct the view of the background.  And yes: it's TIM.  Or rather, the image from which the TIM hologram is created.

It's a bug if he shouldn't have been visable. Your picture does help clarify that it is indeed TIM. Still thats just the setup for the hologram scene that follows. Nothing really nefarious.

[pf17456]

I don't trust TIM. Don't trust Cerebrus either.

I cannot reach a conclusion that would justify handing over the Collector base to TIM in any circumstance. TIM/Cerebrus has done nothing in either game to demonstrate a measure of responsibility capable of utilizing advanced technology. An ends justifies the means approach is not in anyone's best interest. The Cerebrus cells we've seen so far in the game have all ended with disaster and with the expense of human lives, lives Cerebrus is supposed to be advocating for. This leads me to believe that TIM/Cerebrus are simply lobbying their own interests in power and control which do not equal humanity's best interest. Human dominance over the galaxy does not seem to me to be the best solution for humanity or the rest of galactic civilization. Reapers want to enslave advanced life and TIM wants to do the same. I think giving TIM the Collector base is like giving a loaded gun to a child. I'll explode the base every time.

[didymos1120]

mosor wrote...
It's a bug if he shouldn't have been visable.

Yeah, you're right. He definitely shouldn't be visible, so that makes it a bug..  What I was trying to say is  that it's not a bug in the sense that the game engine is doing anything wrong.  Someone just forgot to check that camera angle and make sure TIM wasn't visible. 

[VivaLaNES]

I have nothing against Cerberus. Personally I like them because they have the ability to get things done.

With that being said I don't like the Illusive Man, random personal reasons apply but the fact remains the same.

He asked me to save the station so I blew it up. Maybe a mix of spite and my own feeling of right, but I blew it up none the less.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

I spent way too much tracking down errant Cerberus projects used for nefarious purposes in ME to simply hand them over the Collector base. That, and Ascension.

[JockBuster]

Inverness Moon wrote...

poisonoustea wrote...

Building Reapers to stop Reapers? How sensible. And after the galaxy is saved, we'll ask them to mow our lawns.
Considering that the whole complex had that only purpose, what else would TIM use it for?

If you think saving the collector base means we're going to use it to build reapers then you're not doing much thinking.

He was mocking the idea of keeping the "reaper factory" what else IS that base good for?
And yes I BLOW IT UP every time, flip TIM the BIRD, then non-loyal Miranda resigns and dies fighting the reaper.

[Zan51]

I'd be afraid TIM would use it to make humanity supreme in the galaxy and I won't risk that. Thoughts of an alien holocaust as he wipes out other species worry me.