120 réponses à ce sujet

[TM13h]

Kalfear wrote...
My preference stays true to today.

I guess you got me wrong. I am all with you that Bethesda does not make RPGs but genre chimeras without a soul. That's why I am wondering how you list good old AD&D games (Krynn, Pool of Radiance and such) but not games from between the SSI-era and pre-KotOR like, for example, Planescape: Torment.

[The Mythical Magician]

DA:O is more like a mix of Elder Scrolls IV and KotOR than Mass Effect.

If you played KotOR then you should be able to play DA:O with no problems.

[TM13h]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

DA:O is more like a mix of Elder Scrolls IV (...)

Care to elaborate?

[Eddo36]

Story matters less than immersion. Hence I loved Fallout 3.

[Dethateer]

Eddo36 wrote...

Story matters less than immersion. Hence I loved Fallout 3.

O_O
You sir, have just committed heresy! BURN!

I disagree. Immersion can't happen without a good story, they're both equally important.

[Fredvdp]

Eddo36 wrote...

Story matters less than immersion. Hence I loved Fallout 3.

Fallout 3 suffers from more than just bad storytelling. The combat is crap.

[The Mythical Magician]

TM13h wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

DA:O is more like a mix of Elder Scrolls IV & KotOR

Care to elaborate?

EDITED: Oblivion: DA:O haves the same dialogue choice system (No obvious good/bad choices), both set in like a medieval world, both have Plate/Leather/Cloth & Swords/Maces/Axes, Demonic creatures, you can play as a Mage/Warrior/Rogue, both games have many other regions than just the one playable in just the main game, annoying elves, threat/aggro

KotOR: Combat system are almost the same, Power/Ability Trees, unique party with their own backgrounds,
ability to play as your party member not your own created character, inventory and money making system are similar, click on random common people and hear a random sentence from them, becoming a member of a unique special group (Sith/Jedi/Warden), both are a game made by Bioware.

Fuse both these games and you basically get DA:O

Modifié par The Mythical Magician, 02 juin 2010 - 11:38 .

[TM13h]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

TM13h wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

DA:O is more like a mix of Elder Scrolls IV (...)

Care to elaborate?

DA:O haves the same dialogue system as Elder Scrolls IV does, both games have you find/get a character who can be the next King, you can customize your main character's looks and decide your class at the beginning, learn new powers which are unavailable unless you complete certain quests, both have expansion packs that costs about the same amount and gives a new story to tell, you can steal from NPCs, both games take a long time to fully complete and both games are easy to get into role playing in-game. I could think of more..

Hmm, if you look at it that way then Oblivion is like Doom: First person perspective; several weapons to chose from, both melee and ranged, but only a few are available from the start and others are completely optional; mobs engaging you; no party; dangerous threat from an (unknown) enemy and you are the only knight/marine to stop it; dungeons; boss fights; stupid "flip the lever"-puzzles etc.

There is not a single point among those you mentioned that distinguishes either DA:O or Oblivion from other games, inside and outside their respective genres.

[Eddo36]

Fredvdp wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Story matters less than immersion. Hence I loved Fallout 3.

Fallout 3 suffers from more than just bad storytelling. The combat is crap.

It's about the way you can interact with NPC's and the rich environment.

Not to mention a good story only counts the first time you play the game.

Modifié par Eddo36, 02 juin 2010 - 10:38 .

[The Mythical Magician]

TM13h wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

TM13h wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

DA:O is more like a mix of Elder Scrolls IV (...)

Care to elaborate?

DA:O haves the same dialogue system as Elder Scrolls IV does, both games have you find/get a character who can be the next King, you can customize your main character's looks and decide your class at the beginning, learn new powers which are unavailable unless you complete certain quests, both have expansion packs that costs about the same amount and gives a new story to tell, you can steal from NPCs, both games take a long time to fully complete and both games are easy to get into role playing in-game. I could think of more..

Hmm, if you look at it that way then Oblivion is like Doom: First person perspective; several weapons to chose from, both melee and ranged, but only a few are available from the start and others are completely optional; mobs engaging you; no party; dangerous threat from an (unknown) enemy and you are the only knight/marine to stop it; dungeons; boss fights; stupid "flip the lever"-puzzles etc.

There is not a single point among those you mentioned that distinguishes either DA:O or Oblivion from other games, inside and outside their respective genres.

Never knew this topic is about what game is exactly like Dragon Age Origins in every single degree without being in-common with another game. BTW if you read my original post I was saying its a mix of both Oblivion and KotOR, I wasn't exactly saying DA:O is like exactly like Oblivion in every way.

Modifié par The Mythical Magician, 02 juin 2010 - 10:27 .

[TM13h]

The Mythical Magician wrote...
Never knew this topic is about what game is exactly like Dragon Age Origins in every single degree without being in-common with another game.

DA:O is not even vaguely like Oblivion, I'd go so far as to say it is in most aspects the complete opposite. So if somebody likes Mass Effect, and asks whether DA:O might suit his/her favor, too, and you respond that DA:O shares quite a few similarities with Oblivion this creates the wrong picture. There is a reason why many BioWare fans dislike BethSoft titles and vice versa.

[Icinix]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

TM13h wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

DA:O is more like a mix of Elder Scrolls IV (...)

Care to elaborate?

DA:O haves the same dialogue system as Elder Scrolls IV does, both games have you find/get a character who can be the next King, you can customize your main character's looks and decide your class at the beginning, learn new powers which are unavailable unless you complete certain quests, both have expansion packs that costs about the same amount and gives a new story to tell, you can steal from NPCs, both games take a long time to fully complete and both games are easy to get into role playing in-game. I could think of more..

HAHA. So they're both like almost every RPG ever?

I think DA:O is a more traditional RPG experience, where as ME is more of an action choose your own adventure (Not saying it isn't an RPG, just not a traditional one)

If you love exploring NPC characters, if you love side quests and discovering hidden gems, if you love to create a character from the ground up, then DA:O will satisfy immensely.  But the two games play very very differently, but are both awesome examples of games done right that you want to keep playing.

In summary, get it, but don't expect a Medieval Mass Effect.

[The Mythical Magician]

TM13h wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...
Never knew this topic is about what game is exactly like Dragon Age Origins in every single degree without being in-common with another game.

DA:O is not even vaguely like Oblivion, I'd go so far as to say it is in most aspects the complete opposite. So if somebody likes Mass Effect, and asks whether DA:O might suit his/her favor, too, and you respond that DA:O shares quite a few similarities with Oblivion this creates the wrong picture..

so wait DAO is a third person shooter with no deep stat development, obviously telling you the choices are good/bad in conversations, no magic powers, no plates/leather/clothe, no swords/axes/maces, no elves/dwarves, no deep power/ability trees, no medieval feel, with AI mech enemies, and not being able to steal from NPCs? Yeah I don't think so which is why I believe Oblivion is more like Dragon Age than Mass Effect

Modifié par The Mythical Magician, 02 juin 2010 - 10:59 .

[Sigma Tauri]

TM13h wrote...
I guess you got me wrong. I am all with you that Bethesda does not make RPGs but genre chimeras without a soul. That's why I am wondering how you list good old AD&D games (Krynn, Pool of Radiance and such) but not games from between the SSI-era and pre-KotOR like, for example, Planescape: Torment.

Wait, didn't Kalfear state a pre-KoTOR RPG? Baldur's Gate.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 02 juin 2010 - 02:50 .

[Sigma Tauri]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

so wait DAO is a third person shooter with no deep stat development, obviously telling you the choices are good/bad in conversations, no magic powers, no plates/leather/clothe, no swords/axes/maces, no elves/dwarves, no deep power/ability trees, no medieval feel, with AI mech enemies, and not being able to steal from NPCs? Yeah I don't think so which is why I believe Oblivion is more like Dragon Age than Mass Effect

I don't understand why you're comparing Oblivion to Dragon Age as those were the only two in existence. Similarities exist because they're part of a greater genre of medieval RPGs, which have the major features you listed. Both were strongly influenced by D&D games, with Elder Scrolls from a DnD campaign and Dragon Age from its "spiritual" predecessor Baldur's Gate. But, by contrast, Oblivion has a simplified wiki dialogue system with nary a dialogue tree while Dragon does have one. Some Oblivion stats don't affect skill success, like alchemy and intelligence. Oblivion doesn't have dwarves (being that Elder Scrolls considers dwarves actually elves that died a long time ago). Oblivion doesn't have ability trees, just a list of preset spells and set racial powers and bonuses from Doomstones or quests as well as having a collection of skills that increase by frequent use instead of adding points directly.

So, yeah you're looking at superficial similarities at best, and it puzzles me you're insistent at this.

[dissonance-zaon]

On topic: I don't think they're similar other than BioWare's stubbornness to change the overall design of their games (e.g. chose location A, B, or C till you eliminate all options).



Somebody mentioned DA:O was polished, but I completely disagree. Though, my experience was marred by the fact I played a console version. If I could describe the game in one word it would definitely be: underwhelming. Story, gameplay, atmosphere... all on the low end of the "decent" side for me. About the only thing I really loved about DA:O was the quality of dialog between you and your comrades. Especially Alistair.



That's about as much of a recommendation I can give you, TC: Mass Effect 2 is practically built around character development, but Dragon Age pulled it off a lot better. If you're big on that then you'll be happy. Otherwise, look it up, rent, borrow, or whatever, before you purchase.

[The Mythical Magician]

monkeycamoran wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

so wait DAO is a third person shooter with no deep stat development, obviously telling you the choices are good/bad in conversations, no magic powers, no plates/leather/clothe, no swords/axes/maces, no elves/dwarves, no deep power/ability trees, no medieval feel, with AI mech enemies, and not being able to steal from NPCs? Yeah I don't think so which is why I believe Oblivion is more like Dragon Age than Mass Effect

So, yeah you're looking at superficial similarities at best, and it puzzles me you're insistent at this.

Only being insistent cause my opinion been attacked by TM13h who shorten my first sentence in a quote to just attack half of my opinion of what Dragon Age is like to me. And I know there is other RPGs out there probably more like Dragon Age than Oblivion but to me its really just a MIX of Oblivion's Medieval Feel & KOTOR's Gameplay Systems.

The Mythical Magician wrote... so wait DAO is a third person shooter with no deep stat development, obviously telling you the choices are good/bad in conversations, no magic powers, no plates/leather/clothe, no swords/axes/maces, no elves/dwarves, no deep power/ability trees, no medieval feel, with AI mech enemies, and not being able to steal from NPCs? Yeah I don't think so which is why I believe Oblivion is more like Dragon Age than Mass Effect

Btw this quote was to basically say Mass Effect haves nothing in-common with Dragon Age (Except I know they are both RPGs & made by Bioware), not everything I did wrote there suppose to mean Oblivion haves that either. (I know there aren't dwarves in Oblivion, lol). Just waned to clarify this.

[Kalfear]

TM13h wrote...

Kalfear wrote...
My preference stays true to today.

I guess you got me wrong. I am all with you that Bethesda does not make RPGs but genre chimeras without a soul. That's why I am wondering how you list good old AD&D games (Krynn, Pool of Radiance and such) but not games from between the SSI-era and pre-KotOR like, for example, Planescape: Torment.

I honestly didnt like Planetscape and the RPGs of that era that I tried (plus I admit I got hooked on MMORPGs and my single player games got more limited).

But again, after the SSI gold box games you got games like Ravenloft which was far more about just fighting then the storyline (even though the Ravenloft module for AD&D was amazing). Anyways, I just wasnt a fan of the stuff after the SSI gold Box games for the longest time till really Baldurs gate came out. I missed Fallout 1 and 2 (which im told I would have liked) but boy was I unimpresed with Fallout 3. Just mindless shooting with a throw away story.

LOL, im sitting here trying to even remember some of the titles from that era and im drawing a blank to be honest. Nothing at all sticks out in my mind as a noteworthy RPGs between the Gold box games and Baldurs Gate era (I know I tried a few though). Everyone wanted combat and sims and RTSs. Games (besides numberous MMORPGs) I played in that time period were: All of the Civ games, Phantasmagoria 1&2, Diablo games, Starcraft, warcraft, Masters of Orion 2, some shipping games, none RPG stuff as nothing really exciting was available for RPGs.

Anyways, hope that answers your question on why the gap. Still played computer games but the RPG genre was just so weak for a 10 or so year period and then BG came out and then NWN, then finally KotOR which basically revived the entire genre for me. 

[Kalfear]

Dethateer wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Story matters less than immersion. Hence I loved Fallout 3.

O_O
You sir, have just committed heresy! BURN!

I disagree. Immersion can't happen without a good story, they're both equally important.

+10000000000, well said sir, well said

[Kalfear]

Eddo36 wrote...

Fredvdp wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Story matters less than immersion. Hence I loved Fallout 3.

Fallout 3 suffers from more than just bad storytelling. The combat is crap.

It's about the way you can interact with NPC's and the rich environment.

Not to mention a good story only counts the first time you play the game.

Thats not true!

I replayed Mass Effect 1 7 or so times and learned something new every time because the story wasnt 100% linear and had different branches for you to explore!

I replayed DA:O 5 times and same thing, differing stories each time

A well crafted RPG is VERY replayable and can be enjoyed many times over all the while discovering new things you may not have seen or noticed the last play through!

RPGs like ME2 and say FF13 are so linear though you see everything your first play through and really no reason to redo/replay games like that.

[Kenrae]

I replayed Mass Effect 1 7 or so times and learned something new every time because the story wasnt 100% linear and had different branches for you to explore!

I replayed DA:O 5 times and same thing, differing stories each time

A well crafted RPG is VERY replayable and can be enjoyed many times over all the while discovering new things you may not have seen or noticed the last play through!

RPGs like ME2 and say FF13 are so linear though you see everything your first play through and really no reason to redo/replay games like that.

Sorry? I've replayed both ME1 and ME2 four times and they are about the same in terms of linearity. On my fourth ME2 play thorough I was still discovering new things.

Modifié par Kenrae, 03 juin 2010 - 09:59 .

[Massadonious1]

Watch out, openingly defying the mighty Kalfear gets you called a troll 'round these parts.

[Kenrae]

Well, that would be a new thing for me, I've never being called a troll anywhere .

[SithLordExarKun]

Dethateer wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Story matters less than immersion. Hence I loved Fallout 3.

O_O
You sir, have just committed heresy! BURN!

I disagree. Immersion can't happen without a good story, they're both equally important.

Not really, fallout 3 was very immersive yet it suffered from a very very horrible and poorly written story.

[DarthCaine]

Fallout games don't have good stories