120 réponses à ce sujet

[Sigma Tauri]

haberman13 wrote...
Sorry, Beavis and Butthead were some of the main promoters of stupidity and ramped up this trend downward.

20 years ago was Al Bundy (same point, this has been happening for a long time)

You are basically proving my point, 30 years ago someone your age would have been able to conceptualize what I am arguing and understand that I'm not saying "last year, and only last year, the trend of dumbing down began in our society".

Gamers are leading the race.

I don't think you're conceptualizing anything but being a ****oo, your 99th percentileness.

[tjmax]

haberman13 wrote...

tjmax wrote...

Attacking the intelligence of players cause you don't like their opinions is rather immature.


If you are that passionate about a game, that your most logical step is to attack a group of people because you don't agree with them over it, just how smart does that make you?

If I were hanging around neanderthals arguing that fire was magic would I be less intelligent to explain fire scientifically?

I'm not attacking anyone specifically, just analyzing the trend of increasing stupidity and it's effects on gaming in general.  (read: ME2 was produced because Bioware is also privy to the knowledge that people are satisfied with less complexity and more "action", less thought and more pew pew)

Of course you're not attacking any one person, you're attacking anyone that disagrees with your point of view.

A fairly Typical, I matter and you don't, opinion.
News flash you are not the center of the universe. And you can attack society all you want and that facts never going to change. Attacking the majority over it just makes you look small and petty.

 Fact of life is they will do what they feel will make them the most money.

If that means making the game less complex and easier to fall into the story rather then spend weeks trying to figure out what you are suposed to be doing, then thats the direction they will go in.

 If it means they turn it into tick tack toe with guns and are able to sell millions of copies because people like it like that and will buy it. Then thats what will happen.

 Why? Cause its smart business they are in it for the money.


Attacking people cause they like tick tack toe with guns.. .well simply put. That's your problem not theirs. 


This whole thread has really nothing to do with all these side bar arguments and complaints.  The original poster asked a fair and simple question that has nothing to do with 90% of these thread.

Modifié par tjmax, 04 juin 2010 - 03:07 .

[haberman13]

monkeycamoran wrote...

haberman13 wrote...
Sorry, Beavis and Butthead were some of the main promoters of stupidity and ramped up this trend downward.

20 years ago was Al Bundy (same point, this has been happening for a long time)

You are basically proving my point, 30 years ago someone your age would have been able to conceptualize what I am arguing and understand that I'm not saying "last year, and only last year, the trend of dumbing down began in our society".

Gamers are leading the race.

I don't think you're conceptualizing anything but being a ****oo, your 99th percentileness.

I deleted that part, because you are right <3

Fight the trend man, embrace the alternative choice and don't get into: Halo type games, reality TV, porn, drugs

Alternatively embrace them all and end up liking ME2 :happy:

[Sigma Tauri]

haberman13 wrote...
I deleted that part, because you are right <3

Fight the trend man, embrace the alternative choice and don't get into: Halo type games, reality TV, porn, drugs

Alternatively embrace them all and end up liking ME2 :happy:

Sorry, too late. The deadlines for applications to enter the exclusive LCD Michael Bay College of 'Splosions was May 27th, and we received your application on May 28th. You can however apply for the Left-shifted Outliers Institute. They have rolling admissions.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 04 juin 2010 - 03:21 .

[Tirigon]

haberman13 wrote...

I deleted that part, because you are right <3

Fight the trend man, embrace the alternative choice and don't get into: Halo type games, reality TV, porn, drugs

Alternatively embrace them all and end up liking ME2 :happy:

Halo is a good game.

And drugs are a thing that makes countless people happy.

Both off them are good, therefore.

[haberman13]

tjmax wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

tjmax wrote...

Attacking the intelligence of players cause you don't like their opinions is rather immature.


If you are that passionate about a game, that your most logical step is to attack a group of people because you don't agree with them over it, just how smart does that make you?

If I were hanging around neanderthals arguing that fire was magic would I be less intelligent to explain fire scientifically?

I'm not attacking anyone specifically, just analyzing the trend of increasing stupidity and it's effects on gaming in general.  (read: ME2 was produced because Bioware is also privy to the knowledge that people are satisfied with less complexity and more "action", less thought and more pew pew)

Of course you're not attacking any one person, you're attacking anyone that disagrees with your point of view.

A fairly Typical, I matter and you don't, opinion.
News flash you are not the center of the universe. And you can attack society all you want and that facts never going to change. Attacking the majority over it just makes you look small and petty.

 Fact of life is they will do what they feel will make them the most money.

If that means making the game less complex and easier to fall into the story rather then spend weeks trying to figure out what you are suposed to be doing, then thats the direction they will go in.

 If it means they turn it into tick tack toe with guns and are able to sell millions of copies because people like it like that and will buy it. Then thats what will happen.

 Why? Cause its smart business they are in it for the money.


Attacking people cause they like tick tack toe with guns.. .well simply put. That's your problem not theirs. 


This whole thread has really nothing to do with all these side bar arguments and complaints.  The original poster asked a fair and simple question that has nothing to do with 90% of these thread.

I understand the point you are making, but I refute it for the following bullet-pointed reasons:

1.  Money is a sad excuse for degrading anything
2.  The majority, if perceived to be wrong, must be argued against or the negative trend will simply amplify and continue.

I re-read my post, and it does come off as attacking, which I apologize for.  My basic point is: I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore   Console gamers can have their simplified games all they want, but they are starting to pollute my beloved PC platform, of which I must fight against.

(yes, I also see the irony of me arguing about a video game and the dumbing down of society simultaneously)

[Tirigon]

haberman13 wrote...

DA:O is vastly superior to ME2 for these reasons:

1.  More choice, strategy in character builds, gear
2.  A large open world to explore
3.  No loading screens
4.  Tactical combat that includes an if/then framework
5.  The combat is action-ish, but also tactical, ME2 is a dull rinse and repeat duck behind wall and shoot mechanic

Yada yada yada, I could go on for hours, but this will suffice.

WHAT THE F*CK. You´re so wrong.

1) DAO´s choices are terribly limited unless you´re playing a badass guy warden who agrees with all they do.

2) NOT. AT. ALL. DAO´s world is not open. The levels are totally linear.

3) DAO has loading screens; they´re only less well-made than in ME2

4) What´s good aout "if x then y" combat rules? makes the combat very repetitive.

5) Combat-wise ME2 beats DAO.

[haberman13]

Tirigon wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

I deleted that part, because you are right <3

Fight the trend man, embrace the alternative choice and don't get into: Halo type games, reality TV, porn, drugs

Alternatively embrace them all and end up liking ME2 :happy:

Halo is a good game.

And drugs are a thing that makes countless people happy.

Both off them are good, therefore.

Crack-heads, while on crack, are happy ... when the crack runs out

Drug usage/acceptance ruins a society, as do the other aforementioned items (other than maybe Halo, I'm on the fence about that one)

[MPaBkaTa123]

Kalfear wrote...

I agree for most part Sith but I think you not giving ME1 enough credit.

You learned ALOT about your companions by listening to them in elevators and other areas in ME1, not just talking to them on ship (which I agree could have been better).

But in ME2 with elevators and casual conversation between NPCs eliminated you saw how really weak and poorly they could be (and were) done in a video Game!

Maybe im just delusional cause I want a GOOD adult SCI FI RPG so badly that I artificially promote ME1 but for me it goes:

1) ME1
2) DA:O
3) KotOR
4) Jade Empire
rest really to old or just to crappy to matter.

I am not going to claim you are a troll anymore, there is simply no point because reading all your posts I have concluded that you actually do feel this strongly about the games.
What you are ignoring is that both games were Sci-fI Shooter/RPGs, with the first more on the RPG part whereas the second focusing on the shooter part, both are good in their own different way, and you are free to critique any of them, however where I get annoyed is that you claim that what you are saying is objective and not just your own opinion.
You are so stuck up over the second game not being enough like the first that you refuse to see anything good in it, and keep the first game in a riduculous pedestal it doesn't really deserve. The first game was good no doubt about it but it has it's faults, the inventory system was dull, and when you reached a certain level customization ceased to truly exist, the Mako sections were god-awful and just added for padding and combat was at times wonky, the story and characters were great however and that made it great,  but it is by no means some great game and is even less so just an RPG it was always intended to be a shooter as well.
As for the second game I have a few beefs of my own, like the failure in biotic abilities as well as some poorly designed missions and of course the god-awful scanning ever worse than the Mako, but the game like its predessecor is still great regardless of that.

On topic now:
Not really they are completely different genres and if you go from one of the Mass Effects especially the second to it it will be a bit hard to get used to it if you haven't played such RPGs before but yeah it's awesome and the characters are great, give it a look . 

[Tirigon]

haberman13 wrote...

2.  The majority, if perceived to be wrong, must be argued against or the negative trend will simply amplify and continue.

Most important Law of Nature ever:

IN EVERY GROUP WITH MORE THAN 2 MEMBERS THE ****S ARE IN THE MAJORITY!!!

Learn it by heart.


Edit: The **** means the combination of ass and hole.

Modifié par Tirigon, 04 juin 2010 - 03:32 .

[Illusivestofmen]

I did not like DA at all, I rented it and I quit playing after like an hour. The graphics were horrible and there were load screens whenever you went into a new area or new building. The combat was bland and confusing. Hated it. I hear it is much better on the PS3 and PC but on 360 it was **** in my opinion.

[haberman13]

Tirigon wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

DA:O is vastly superior to ME2 for these reasons:

1.  More choice, strategy in character builds, gear
2.  A large open world to explore
3.  No loading screens
4.  Tactical combat that includes an if/then framework
5.  The combat is action-ish, but also tactical, ME2 is a dull rinse and repeat duck behind wall and shoot mechanic

Yada yada yada, I could go on for hours, but this will suffice.

WHAT THE F*CK. You´re so wrong.

1) DAO´s choices are terribly limited unless you´re playing a badass guy warden who agrees with all they do.

2) NOT. AT. ALL. DAO´s world is not open. The levels are totally linear.

3) DAO has loading screens; they´re only less well-made than in ME2

4) What´s good aout "if x then y" combat rules? makes the combat very repetitive.

5) Combat-wise ME2 beats DAO.

1.  Does not compute.

2.  In DA:O you can return to a previously visited location, true it isn't open like Morrowind - but more open than ME2's "you're done here, load back to ship, never can return" model.

3.  I wasn't clear about this point, I meant the post level loading screen back to the ship... I.E. teleport back to ship immediately after completing the level.

4.  Ahh, but that is where you are wrong, it makes combat tactical and tweakable for maximum performance.  Sure once its set you can let it run, but that isn't the point, the point is the options are there.  In ME2 its "pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew".

5.  If shooters > RPG then yes.

[RainOfAshes]

Dragon Age is heaven.

[Tirigon]

haberman13 wrote...

Crack-heads, while on crack, are happy ... when the crack runs out

It is everyone´s right to ruin their life the way they think best.

Drug usage/acceptance ruins a society, as do the other aforementioned items (other than maybe Halo, I'm on the fence about that one)

Society is ruined by its very nature. Humans are not made to live in forced societies.
Halo is, as said, a good game. One of the best shooters ever I´d say.
Porn is a business that earns much money and gives opportunities to people who have more in their boobs than in their brains.
I agree on Reality TV, however. Hate that sh!t.:sick::sick:

[haberman13]

Tirigon wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

Crack-heads, while on crack, are happy ... when the crack runs out

It is everyone´s right to ruin their life the way they think best.

Drug usage/acceptance ruins a society, as do the other aforementioned items (other than maybe Halo, I'm on the fence about that one)

Society is ruined by its very nature. Humans are not made to live in forced societies.
Halo is, as said, a good game. One of the best shooters ever I´d say.
Porn is a business that earns much money and gives opportunities to people who have more in their boobs than in their brains.
I agree on Reality TV, however. Hate that sh!t.:sick::sick:

Of course it's everyones right to ruin themselves, as its my right to call them morons for doing it

On your other point, I agree, we weren't meant to be constricted into society as we are today.  Nomads FTW (as long as they get the interweb).

[Tirigon]

haberman13 wrote...

1.  Does not compute.

I´m sorry I don´t understand what that´s supposed to mean.

2.  In DA:O you can return to a previously visited location, true it isn't open like Morrowind - but more open than ME2's "you're done here, load back to ship, never can return" model.

You can, but it´s mostly pointless. It´s a fake open world at best.

3.  I wasn't clear about this point, I meant the post level loading screen back to the ship... I.E. teleport back to ship immediately after completing the level.

I see. Agreed.

4.  Ahh, but that is where you are wrong, it makes combat tactical and tweakable for maximum performance.  Sure once its set you can let it run, but that isn't the point, the point is the options are there.  In ME2 its "pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew".

5.  If shooters > RPG then yes.

All in all, they are not. Combat-wise they are, imo. I wish there was an RPG with halo-style combat......

[haberman13]

Tirigon wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

1.  Does not compute.

I´m sorry I don´t understand what that´s supposed to mean.

2.  In DA:O you can return to a previously visited location, true it isn't open like Morrowind - but more open than ME2's "you're done here, load back to ship, never can return" model.

You can, but it´s mostly pointless. It´s a fake open world at best.

3.  I wasn't clear about this point, I meant the post level loading screen back to the ship... I.E. teleport back to ship immediately after completing the level.

I see. Agreed.

4.  Ahh, but that is where you are wrong, it makes combat tactical and tweakable for maximum performance.  Sure once its set you can let it run, but that isn't the point, the point is the options are there.  In ME2 its "pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew".

5.  If shooters > RPG then yes.

All in all, they are not. Combat-wise they are, imo. I wish there was an RPG with halo-style combat......

OK: Halo combat + WoW gear/stats/multiplayer + ME Universe ... hmmm, that might just be the best game ever.

Halo alone is too simple, though I agree the combat does feel great (only played the first all the way through)

[Jestina]

DAO is nice so far. Seems to be a nice mixture of RPG and action, like ME2 should be. It is a little linear but there's quite abit to explore and the areas at least feel alive because there are quite a number of people walking around. Character classes are very flexible which is nice and there is a big assortment of talents to choose from.



While the combat mechanics are similar to ME2,it does require abit more strategizing. Combat in DAO is bloody, brutal, and frantic...as medieval warfare should be. It tends to be a little busy but manageable. At times you also have more than just two other people traveling with you.



My Elvish warrior after a battle.

[tjmax]

One NICE thing about it. there are tons of player mods out , not just cheat ones either.



Player creativity and contribution to games, I feel, should be something more game makers should look into.



As is very evident in this very post. Game players are extremely passionate about their favorite games.



Many players are extremely talented artists, story writers and have tons of great ideas.



Players are for lack of a better term, are a massive and mostly unused resource that gaming companies should take more interest in tapping into.



But of course this is just my opinion.

[searanox]

Veex wrote...

searanox wrote...

I'd say it's blatantly false that those decisions are "plot-changing", since those decisions have no effect on the plot whatsoever, only the sub-plots.

Well, I'd counter that Mass Effect 2's main plot is more about your squad than the collector's, but I suppose thats a valid criticism. 

That isn't the plot.  Mass Effect 2's plot is:

1) Collectors are abducting people!  Shepard investigates while picking up squad members, who don't decide to help until he completes arbitrary tasks for them (i.e. shoot all the dudes).
2) Shepard investigates a few random locations, and stumbles across the code for the portal.
3) Time for 'splosions! Shepard goes to kick Collector ass, then finds out the reason for the abductions and fights a boss.

Pretty much everything else in the game is fluff, consisting of either arbitrary sub-objectives, cameo appearances by characters from the last game, or instances of "need key to open treasure chest".  The plot is totally bare-bones, and while it has individual scenarios that are interesting and well-done, they have no bearing on the overall story at all.  We learn nothing new about the Reapers, the Collectors are both introduced and defeated without ever being fleshed out, and Shepard doesn't undergo any sort of character development whatsoever.

Note that this doesn't mean Mass Effect 2 is a bad game.  It just means it has a simplistic plot which only exists to set up situations where Shepard can punch people in the face with biotics and look at pretty alien sex toys.

Modifié par searanox, 05 juin 2010 - 02:01 .

[SithLordExarKun]

haberman13 wrote...

Based on the Idiocracy inspired dumbing down concept:

ME1 is the better game, but released 2 years later the average IQ of the gamer population has dropped 10% so that reality is no longer apparent.

For these reason:

1.  Less choice, if even just perception of choice (ala gear, character builds)
2.  Linear corridor shooter inspired levels
3.  Gears of War combat - duck behind wall, wait, shoot, wait, shoot etc. etc.
4.  End of level loading screens
5.  Dopey cut/paste romance centered relationships

DA:O is vastly superior to ME2 for these reasons:

1.  More choice, strategy in character builds, gear
2.  A large open world to explore
3.  No loading screens
4.  Tactical combat that includes an if/then framework
5.  The combat is action-ish, but also tactical, ME2 is a dull rinse and repeat duck behind wall and shoot mechanic

Yada yada yada, I could go on for hours, but this will suffice.

So anyone that likes ME2 over DAO or ME1 = they are less intelligent? Wow way to go at being very mature. If you prefer DAO over ME2 for what ever reasons, thats YOUR personal opinion, and you aren't the center of the universe and the world doesn't revolve around you.