63 réponses à ce sujet

[Asdara]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Heh, you believed Howe? He lies obviously. HN parents were slaughtered by his soldiers. He wasn't even present.

What happened for sure we'll never know.  We can't trust Howe's word, nor do we get any information later that confirms or denies any of our personal speculation.  He was nearby / around though obviously, because you meet him earlier that day.  

As far as believing him, not so much.  As others have pointed out - it's highly unlikely that would be how it would go down.  

[sylvanaerie]

Asdara wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Heh, you believed Howe? He lies obviously. HN parents were slaughtered by his soldiers. He wasn't even present.

What happened for sure we'll never know.  We can't trust Howe's word, nor do we get any information later that confirms or denies any of our personal speculation.  He was nearby / around though obviously, because you meet him earlier that day.  

As far as believing him, not so much.  As others have pointed out - it's highly unlikely that would be how it would go down.  

I think he was just trying to twist the knife in the PC myself.  The only way Mom would have died that way was to buy her child a little more time to get away and then only if Bryce was dead already.  Personally, I would rather imagine she went down fighting full of arrows (Kinda like Boromir) than licking Howe's boots.

[Zjarcal]

There is absolutely no way that Eleanor Cousland would've done that. She died fighting, that's for sure.



The thing is that none of the regular lines get to Howe. He just shrugs them off and tells you something worse to make you feel like crap. Like when he arrives with Loghain as you're starting the Landsmeet quest and you say that "this man murdered my family! I demand blood rights", he just laughs and says you have no rights and bla, bla, bla.



But when you give him the "Cousland glare"... ho, ho, Howe! I wish we could've extended that dialog a bit further to really get into his head, but it was still good. The one thing I really wanted was for an option to cut him short as he's saying his "maker spit on you, I deserved more" line. Like the HN stomping on his throat or better yet, shoving the Cousland family sword down his throat.

[Kenshen]

After seeing Elenor's response to her grandchild being butchered there is no way she bowed down to Howe. She died fighting or at the very least took her own life once Bryce was dead. On that note there is no way I would leave my parents like that I would have fought to the end no matter what anyone said.

[Zjarcal]

aryon69 wrote...

After seeing Elenor's response to her grandchild being butchered there is no way she bowed down to Howe. She died fighting or at the very least took her own life once Bryce was dead. On that note there is no way I would leave my parents like that I would have fought to the end no matter what anyone said.

Totally agree.

Blight or no (of which my character knows little), pleas from my parents to flee or not, I would never leave my parents alone to such fate. That's why when the Guardian in The Urn of Sacred Ashes quest askes me if I believe I failed my parents, I always say "Yes, I should've defended them to the death".

EDIT: A bit off topic, but Wynne's response after I answer the Guardian's question always makes me want to tell her to sod off!

Modifié par Zjarcal, 03 juin 2010 - 07:37 .

[sylvanaerie]

Zjarcal wrote...

aryon69 wrote...

After seeing Elenor's response to her grandchild being butchered there is no way she bowed down to Howe. She died fighting or at the very least took her own life once Bryce was dead. On that note there is no way I would leave my parents like that I would have fought to the end no matter what anyone said.

Totally agree.

Blight or no (of which my character knows little), pleas from my parents to flee or not, I would never leave my parents alone to such fate. That's why when the Guardian in The Urn of Sacred Ashes quest askes me if I believe I failed my parents, I always say "Yes, I should've defended them to the death".

I usually play pretty stoic, play my cards close to my chest HN PC.  I always tell the guardian STFU when he asks my HN.  Makes for a better scene with the Bryce spirit (IMO).

[Sarah1281]

EDIT: A bit off topic, but Wynne's response after I answer the Guardian's question always makes me want to tell her to sod off!

Do any origins that she comments on not have the capacity to offend? Especially if you choose not to answer such a painful question?

[Zjarcal]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

aryon69 wrote...

After seeing Elenor's response to her grandchild being butchered there is no way she bowed down to Howe. She died fighting or at the very least took her own life once Bryce was dead. On that note there is no way I would leave my parents like that I would have fought to the end no matter what anyone said.

Totally agree.

Blight or no (of which my character knows little), pleas from my parents to flee or not, I would never leave my parents alone to such fate. That's why when the Guardian in The Urn of Sacred Ashes quest askes me if I believe I failed my parents, I always say "Yes, I should've defended them to the death".

I usually play pretty stoic, play my cards close to my chest HN PC.  I always tell the guardian STFU when he asks my HN.  Makes for a better scene with the Bryce spirit (IMO).

That's what I did at first, but for some reason I felt bad, reloaded and  decided to just answer it. I felt that my character had been carrying that guilt for so long that she just needed to let it out. I will have to try and see the Bryce spirit scene with the other answers.

Sarah1281 wrote...

EDIT: A bit off topic, but Wynne's response after I answer the Guardian's question always makes me want to tell her to sod off!

Do any origins that she comments on not have the capacity to offend? Especially if you choose not to answer such a painful question?

I don't know about the other origins, but I find that all her comments are petulant and offensive, regardless of what you answer. The whole "if you don't want to answer such a simple question, then it says more about you than if you answered" (or something like that anyway), was so irritating that I felt tempted to defile the ashes just so I could get a second chance at killing her. Unfortunately I had Leliana in the party and there's no way I was gonna lose her too.

[Sarah1281]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

EDIT: A bit off topic, but Wynne's response after I answer the Guardian's question always makes me want to tell her to sod off!

Do any origins that she comments on not have the capacity to offend? Especially if you choose not to answer such a painful question?

I don't know about the other origins, but I find that all her comments are petulant and offensive, regardless of what you answer. The whole "if you don't want to answer such a simple question, then it says more about you than if you answered" (or something like that anyway), was so irritating that I felt tempted to defile the ashes just so I could get a second chance at killing her. Unfortunately I had Leliana in the party and there's no way I was gonna lose her too.

 It's especially offensive considering her question was 'so, do you realize all you ever do is spout platitudes?' Why not bring up Aneirin? Or her son? Lame.

Edit: Or even the fact that she's an abomination! Honestly.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 03 juin 2010 - 07:59 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think the toolset specifies that Howe is trying to provoke you. I doubt anything that he said happened. There was one line in particular that made me think about the person. If you use persuade (I am a grey warden), he says that Bryce would be proud and in different circumstances, he would have been proud of you too.

At that moment, I was really like "Did you have to be a sterotypical a-hole?"

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's especially offensive considering her question was 'so, do you realize all you ever do is spout platitudes?' Why not bring up Aneirin? Or her son? Lame.

Edit: Or even the fact that she's an abomination! Honestly.

I know!

There are so many skeletons in her closet it would've been a perfect chance to put her in her place. Seriously, the next time I'm at the Circle Tower I'll follow Morrigan's advice and put an end to her existence!

[Giggles_Manically]

Wait Do the spirits in the Gauntlent say different things depending on how you answer the Guardian? I always thought they said the same thing, and wouldnt appear if you refused to answer. How does the dialouge change for the spirits then?

[sylvanaerie]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Wait Do the spirits in the Gauntlent say different things depending on how you answer the Guardian? I always thought they said the same thing, and wouldnt appear if you refused to answer. How does the dialouge change for the spirits then?

 

SPOILERS BELOW




yes they do change depending on what you say.  Bryce (paraphased says to thse answers)

If you say yes, you feel guilty He tries to reassure you that its over and done and not to dwell on it anymore.  He forgives you and tells you he loves you and tells you to go do what yo have to

If you say no, you don't feel guilty He tells you that its good you don't dwell in the past.  He forgives you and tells you he loves you and go do what you hvae to do.

If you tell the guardian to STFU Bryce tells you the Maker sees the rage and pain in your heart even if you can't give voice to it.  Then he tells you he forgives you and loves you and go do what you have to do.

Bryce in the Guantlet (I chose STFU) but this is just the same line he gives all the answers.  And yes I have done this scene WAYYYYY too many times

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 03 juin 2010 - 08:34 .

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Wait Do the spirits in the Gauntlent say different things depending on how you answer the Guardian? I always thought they said the same thing, and wouldnt appear if you refused to answer. How does the dialouge change for the spirits then?

They have three, depending on if you said yes, said no, or refused to answer. For example, for the DN you see your dead older brother and these are the three answer-dependent dialogues:
1a. (IF PC SAID YES TO GUARDIAN)
Trian: "My sister/brother, I know you are haunted by shame and regret. Let the past stay in the past." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Take this, and use it well. I give you this... and my blessing." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Remember me." (VO: Sad, wistful.)
1b. (IF PC SAID NO TO GUARDIAN)
Trian: "But the betrayals of Orzammar do not weigh down your steps. You have not faltered, and I am proud of you." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Take this, and use it well. I give you this... and my blessing." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Remember me." (VO: Sad, wistful.)
1c. (IF PC DID NOT ANSWER GUARDIAN)
Trian: "You said nothing to the Guardian. Do you feel nothing about your eldest brother's betrayal and death? Or about your own betrayal?" (VO: A little curious, but sounds a little hurt as well.)
Trian: "There is no shame in acknowledging the mistakes of the past. We must face them, before we move on." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Ah, but I should not confuse you. You have a long path ahead of you. I hope you will be ready." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Remember me." (VO: Sad, wistful.)

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Trian: "But the betrayals of Orzammar do not weigh down your steps. You have not faltered, and I am proud of you." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Take this, and use it well. I give you this... and my blessing." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Remember me." (VO: Sad, wistful.)

That exchange almost made Dain cry.
I know the ghost isn't Trian, but that would be my favorite Trian moment.

[Swoo]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's especially offensive considering her question was 'so, do you realize all you ever do is spout platitudes?' Why not bring up Aneirin? Or her son? Lame.

Edit: Or even the fact that she's an abomination! Honestly.

I know!

There are so many skeletons in her closet it would've been a perfect chance to put her in her place. Seriously, the next time I'm at the Circle Tower I'll follow Morrigan's advice and put an end to her existence!

It was my understanding of the questions that it was him focusing on the biggest doubt or regret that each character had. So Wynne does feel guilt and regret over Aneirin and the loss of her son, but the constant worry that her entire life is a lie and she speaks and preaches what has been indoctrinated into her would be the 'biggest' concern.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
Trian: "But the betrayals of Orzammar do not weigh down your steps. You have not faltered, and I am proud of you." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Take this, and use it well. I give you this... and my blessing." (VO: A little sad, but kindly, forgiving.)
Trian: "Remember me." (VO: Sad, wistful.)

That exchange almost made Dain cry.
I know the ghost isn't Trian, but that would be my favorite Trian moment.

When I first heard it I practically had a heart attack. That's probably the first nice thing he's ever said to them in years.

[Hyper Cutter]

Can someone post the dialog from the Shianni version of the Gauntlet thing?

[sylvanaerie]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Can someone post the dialog from the Shianni version of the Gauntlet thing?

Sorry the one CE I had to that point was many playthroughs ago and my game has since been reinstalled a couple times.

[shoulderfish]

I doubt he was telling the truth.

My dad was in the room when I was fighting Howe, and I mentioned the "After this, I'll kill your wife and son," option. I said, that's a little too far, I'm not going to do that. He said, Yeah, well, tell that to the man who died worrying.

[Fishy]

No .What pisses me off it's every of my companions don't give a fook when HOWEStalk about my parents..



RAAAAAAAAGE

[Sarah1281]

shoulderfish wrote...

I doubt he was telling the truth.
My dad was in the room when I was fighting Howe, and I mentioned the "After this, I'll kill your wife and son," option. I said, that's a little too far, I'm not going to do that. He said, Yeah, well, tell that to the man who died worrying.

Oh, good point. If he really did give a damn about his family and believed you'd go after them regardless making something up about your parents' deaths was probably the only thing he could do in the event that he lost that fight.

[Asdara]

Yeah that was a little bit why I went with it (I was also feeling saucy) I didn't intend to actually do it - well then I did after he said that mean thing about my parents - but then I relented and allowed Nat to redeem himself with the Wardens and all that good stuff - but I wanted to SAY it to him and make him think I might, which - as we see, rather backfired on me.

[Sarah1281]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Can someone post the dialog from the Shianni version of the Gauntlet thing?

Shianni: Hey.
(PC: Shianni?
Shianni: Who else? It’s good to see you, I suppose.)
(PC: Another Chattering spirit?
Shianni: Nice to see you too.)
(PC: Here to ask me a riddle?
Shianni: That’s how you greet an old friend, huh?)
Shianni: Life out there’s been good to you, hasn’t it? You’re respected, even among humans. Do you remember us? Where you came from and what some of us still face every day?
(PC: Yes I do, Shianni.)
(PC: Using guilt on me?
Shianni: No, of course not.)
(PC: I refuse to look back on that life.)
(PC: I wish I could free you all.
Shianni: Really? Thank you, but that will take time, more time than you can spare.)
 
If PC said yes to Guardian
Shianni: What happened…it wasn’t really your fault. You were caught in the situation just like the rest of us. You have a great task to complete. I want you to take this. I think you should have it. Seeing you now gives me hope…for all of us.
 
If PC said no to Guardian
Shianni: You don’t even feel much anymore when you remember it, do you? You’ve moved on, past the horror of that night. I envy you…you’ve gone on to other things, things I can only dream of. You have a great task to complete. I want you to take this. I think you should have it. Seeing you now gives me hope…for all of us.
 
If PC did not answer guardian: When the Guardian asked, you wouldn’t answer. Why? Some things are learned only when you find them for yourself. Still, you have come far. Seeing you now gives me hope…for all of us.
 

[Lady Catastrophe]

Nu-Nu wrote...

That just makes any potential angsty romance between human female noble and Nat darker and sweeter, because there will be a romance, there will be!!! 

....I can live and hope lol

*cough* THIS. *cough*
...please,BioWare?