194 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Pokémon.

[quote]For slightly more serious discussion on how to improve upon both games:
http://social.biowar...5/index/2656020[/quote]
Although there's been a lot of comparison between Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, not many have compared it to another RPG. I bought Pokémon Red as recently as 10 years ago and, looking back at it now, I have realized why it is the best selling RPG of all time. Just look at the sales records:

Pokémon (Original Red and Blue RPG) - 20+ million sold
Pokémon Franchise - 175+ million sold

This thread will attempt to answer two things:
1. How is Pokémon much more of an RPG than Mass Effect?
2. What can Mass Effect learn from Pokémon?

[quote]I. Inventory and Itemization[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Decent inventory system, but limited to retextures of armor, weapons and slight modifications in stats to each of them using mods. Hardly any unique items, all listed I to X. Some squadmates have no casual appearance and wear their armor everywhere.
• Mass Effect 2: Inventory replaced with a loadout screen, decent variety of weapons and armor pieces (for Shepard), but squadmates get no inventory whatsoever. Squadmates wear their armor everywhere, even as casual appearance.
• Pokémon: Robust inventory system; 151 Pokémon as squadmates and/or weapons (now 493 Pokémon as of the recent version), items have a plethora of different uses in combat, and newer versions of Pokémon allow you to mod them in very different ways. All versions of Pokémon allow you to use items to give any of your Pokémon NEW abilities.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? More items - and not just more weapons and armor (doubt they could make 150 different weapons, after all), but weapon mods, armor mods and consumables in combat. Biotics injecting "red sand" mid-combat for a boost, Techies power surging an omni-tool, Soldiers activating Stim Packs, squadmates throwing different types of grenades, all buyable from merchants (at a price). Also, squadmates should have a decent range of armor pieces and a single casual appearance on board the Normandy. If not full armor, then at least helmets and squadmate-specific items that change their appearance, as well as the ability to change the palette of their current armor.

[quote]II. Strategies and Abilities[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Cover-based shooting system, little rock-paper-scissors type gameplay other than switching ammo mods (Tungsten/Shredder/Sledgehammer). Spamming of abilities encouraged. Some abilities are shared across squadmates.
• Mass Effect 2: Cover-based shooting system, some rock-paper-scissors type gameplay (weapon effectiveness, ammo effectiveness, range, abilities affecting different protection). Spamming of a single ability encouraged. Some abilities are shared across squadmates.
• Pokémon: Turn-based attack system with one Pokémon or a Pokémon duo. Lots of complex rock-paper-scissors type gameplay with Pokémon types (see above) and the endless number of Pokémon abilities available. Tactical use of abilities encouraged.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? The shooting is not going to change, but it would be nice if combat involved a little more than just picking the "best" mods, ammo and weapon for the situation.

[quote]III. Customization[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Shepard's name, face, class and history are customizable. Squad skill sets are customizable, but stats and skills end up being the same near the end of the game.
• Mass Effect 2: Shepard's name, face, class and history are customizable (history is insignificant). Squad skill sets are limited and customizable, and also end up being the same.
• Pokémon: Pokémon Trainer's name and starter Pokémon are customizable, and almost all Pokémon captured can be renamed. Stats based on HP, Attack, Defense, Special Attack/Defense and Speed vary depending on the Pokémon's upbringing and what level their were originally caught. Possibilities of teaching abilities to different Pokémon are endless - no two save files are exactly the same.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Squadmates should at least be semi-customizable (selectable bonus power for squadmate if they survived and are loyal?) Also, their loyalty as well as your current relationship with them should affect how well they fight in battle. Specific stat bonuses can be earned for romancing a specific character as well. Stats like squadmate accuracy, attack power, and evasiveness should be shown on the squad select screen.

[quote]IV. Progression[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Up to Level 60, have to play the game 2-3 times over to reach maximum level. Squadmates - even the ones left on the Normandy - level up magically as you do. When the game ends, you have to start over.
• Mass Effect 2: Up to Level 30, have to play the game once to reach maximum level. Squadmates - even the ones left on the Normandy - level up magically as you do. When the game ends, you don't have to start over, but the number of things to do is limited.
• Pokémon: Every Pokémon has its own level, requiring you to train each one in order for them to gain experience. Some Pokémon are capable of evolving and completely changing their appearance and even their combat style. No need to have more than one save file to train any and all the Pokémon you wish, switching them out as needed. You can train them practically anywhere, as well.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Not much - the system is designed so that you're allowed to take the 2 squadmates you want (not that you can take all of them anyway). Multi-squad missions (Virmire, Omega-4) should be the norm - not the exception, however. With this many squadmates, everyone should be involved in the mission in some way, no matter how limited.

[quote]V. Immersion[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Can travel back to almost any planet/area that you've already completed - well, except for Noveria Peak 15, Virmire and Ilos. Immediately going to ground level or returning to the Normandy after Feros (Thorian), Noveria (Peak 15) breaks immersion. Loading screens from Citadel Rapid Transit and from returning to the Normandy after side missions in the Mako also breaks immersion. When the game ends, the game ends.
• Mass Effect 2: Cannot travel to most of the planets you've already completed. Mission complete screen that returns you back to the Normandy after every recruitment or main mission breaks immersion. More loading screens.
• Pokémon: Hardly any loading - even switching to combat is a short flash into battle. Cutscenes take the place of travel, but no actual 'LOADING' is necessary.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Using skippable cutscenes to hide loading (or a 'loading' time that immediately ends after the cutscene is over) is the best method. One prominent form of this is Sergeant Haron at the Citadel in Mass Effect 2 - the "Sorry for the inconvenience, ma'am" is actually a loading screen that opens the door the moment the rest of that area loads.

[quote]VI. Vehicle Combat[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Roam around empty planets in the Mako, linear path to map point. Combat consists of moving side to side while firing 'splosions at the target.
• Mass Effect 2: Roam around empty planets in the Hammerhead, linear path to mission objective. Combat consists of moving up and down while firing 'splosions at the target.
• Pokémon: Can get into regular combat even if you're surfing on a Pokémon or riding on your bicycle to save travel time.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? StarFox 64 ship combat and asteroid-dodging/nuking... please? =|

[quote]VII. Exploration/Open-endedness[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: As mentioned above, empty planets with nothing on them. Citadel is the largest hub world with many open spaces. Nothing interesting about Feros, Noveria or Virmire.
• Mass Effect 2: No empty planets to explore. Hub world detail split between Citadel Zakera Ward, Tuchanka, Omega and Illium. Not many open spaces to walk around.
• Pokémon: Once you have all the travel abilities, you can go anywhere you want, train your Pokémon anywhere you want - enemies will always been waiting around the corner for a good fight no matter where you go or come back to. Fly ability allows you to hop around city to city, surf ability allows you to roam around aquatically. Keys can be found in some Pokémon versions that permit passage to hidden buildings and such. Far more places to explore with random NPCs, items and Pokémon scattered all over the place.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? If there will be planets to explore, they better be populated. If there are mercenaries there, you should run into their tanks or merc armies randomly while looking around and doing donuts around their buildings. If there are geth, dropships should do fly-bys where they drop geth in random locations around you. There needs to be more than empty terrain and empty space.

[quote]VIII. Mini-games[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Decryption (circular frogger), Quasar
• Mass Effect 2: Hacking (matching), Circuits (matching), Pyjak hunting, Varren fighting, Planet-scanning
• Pokémon: Several places for gambling, Pokémon contests (non-battle) in later versions, Pokéthlon in others. Requires you to train your Pokémon in a different way and even worry about what to feed them for optimum contest performance.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? - Mini-games should be literally mini-games, not added timesinks. Being able to play Skyllian-Five Poker or Chess against anyone on the Normandy Crew for credits - especially against Legion or Mordin - would be a lot more fun than, say... planet-scanning. Raising a Varren or some other pet by more than just feeding them would also be nice. Planet-scanning should be replaced with planet-nuking. Nuke away.

[quote]IX. Side Missions[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Several short side missions irrelevant to the plot (other than Cerberus, technically speaking), most of them forced upon you by the Alliance. Hub world missions are very simplistic. Some shooting gallery missions (with prefabricated buildings) do have dialogue, however.
• Mass Effect 2: Several short side missions irrelevant to the plot, requires you to look for anomalies on each planet. Hub world missions are very simplistic. Almost no dialogue involved in each shooting gallery.
• Pokémon: Some side missions with "dialogue", but not really forced upon you. Very simple, but some can actually require some searching after you receive the quest.
• Winner -- No one. They all lose!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Unless the loyalty missions count as side missions, they basically all lose. Side missions should be short quest chains that resolve a major problem. This is not the case right now (although we have yet to see the Overlord DLC).

[quote]X. Plot[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Central villain that you only really see and fight twice. You find out that he's being brainwashed by the Reapers, and the storyline involves figuring out what he's going to do and stopping the Reapers from invading. Sovereign spends most of his time trying to intimidate you. Vigil provides most of the actual information.
• Mass Effect 2: Central villain that you only see through intermediaries (ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL). You find out later that he's being brainwashed by the Reapers , and the storyline involves figuring out what he's going to do and stopping the Reapers from invading human colonies. Human-Reaper is intimidating, but is still the Terminator. Harbinger spends most of his time trying to intimidate you. The Illusive Man and EDI (at the very end) provides most of the actual information about the Collectors/Protheans.
• Pokémon: Central villain (Gary) who starts from humble origins as well as you. He has his own purpose of becoming the best Pokémon trainer, while you strive to defeat him. You meet and face him several times along the way. You are required to defeat several Pokémon gym leaders in order to gain the status and enter the final tournament, where you face the Elite Four. Team Rocket is always hanging out somewhere in the background.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Nothing, we're going to be facing the Reapers at the end of Mass Effect 3 (I hope...).

[quote]XI. Continuity/Carry-over[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: Some plot holes and scientific inaccuracies, but can be dismissed/hand-waved with suspension of disbelief. Choices carry-over into the next game, consequences pushed into the next game.
• Mass Effect 2: Some plot holes and retcons (as well as scientific inaccuracies). Some can be dismissed, others need to be further explained in detail with expansion/Mass Effect 3. Choices carry-over into the next game, consequences pushed into the next game.
• Pokémon: No plot holes unless it's the Pokémon movies or anime. Continuity is unnecessary other than the ever-increasing number of Pokémon with each generation. Pokémon can be transferred and used in Nintendo games outside the original Pokémon for Game Boy or DS.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? The simpler the game is, the harder it is to nitpick plot points. Mass Effect 3 has no choice but to be complex, though.

[quote]XII. Relationships and Romance...?[/quote]

• Mass Effect 1: 3 available romances, adds extra dialogue and a love scene on the Normandy. Gameplay is unaffected.
• Mass Effect 2: 6 available romances, 3 old romances missing (and 2 more 'almost' romances with Samara and Morinth). Adds extra dialogue and a short love scene in the Captain's Quarters or Engineering Room. Gameplay is unaffected - other than Thane's use of 'siha'.
• Pokémon: Starting with the later versions, all different Pokémon can be bred to produce new Pokémon with new stats and abilities. This adds further to the customization mentioned above. The type of Pokémon bred (and how fast they are bred) depends on the personality types of the Pokémon's parents. Stats are inherited from the parents. This is an integral part of gameplay.
• Winner -- Pokémon!

-What can Mass Effect learn from this? I don't know if squadmates will be 'breeding' any time soon (well, other then Wrex and Grunt), but some kind of gameplay bonus as well as dialogue outside the Normandy relating to the romance would be helpful. Being able to buy gifts and gauge how well the relationship is going is also a plus.

[quote]XIII. Elevators...?[/quote]

• Winner -- Pikachu!

So what does Mass Effect have as an RPG that Pokémon doesn't?

• Shooting stuff/explosions - not RPG-related
• Tons of voiced dialogue - not entirely RPG-related (see below)
• Character Development

Voiced dialogue doesn't automatically designate something as an RPG - Halo 2 had 20,000 lines of dialogue (the same number as Mass Effect 1): http://electronics.h.../halo-sound.htm

All that's left is character development - this is what makes a BioWare RPG, and both games do it very well with Shepard and squadmates. However, if the other elements define the RPG genre, then Pokémon is an RPG in the truest sense. Meanwhile, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are better off being classified as third-person shooters with RPG elements. But don't just take my word for it - the first impressions of the original Mass Effect seem that way as well:

[quote]http://www.destructo...ing-40483.phtml

"[Mass Effect 1's] gameplay looks like your standard FPS fare, which is to say that I didn't see anything great or remarkable..."[/quote]
[quote]http://news.filefron...-disappointing/

"Even the action they showed though looked all too familiar: moving a targeting reticule around and shooting at enemies in real time. [Mass Effect 1] didn’t feel like an RPG, but more like a third-person shooter with RPG elements (which we didn’t get to see in action either)."[/quote]
[quote]http://www.dailygame...ives/005656.php

"Using these weapons is much different than simply upgrading and creating lightsabers in KOTOR, though, as the combat in Mass Effect is entirely real time. Basically, Mass Effect is a third-person tactical shooter, much like Rainbow Six played in third-person mode."[/quote]
[quote]http://previews.team...Mass-Effect/p1/

"While it can definitely be classified as an RPG, Mass Effect is a third-person shooter that features a nice variety of combat elements."[/quote]
[quote]http://www.gamespot....id=m-1-41285859

"I was shocked that this game was as bad as it was. I expected to be a new KotOR but it was far from it...

I understand this game was pretty sweet, but, honestly, who wants to die in 2 bullets, wait 5 minutes for your health to recharge to full, wait like 1 minute to use a medkit again, ALWAYS have your teammates dying, and then button mash lift/throw/RT/warp, and STILL lose, and then start back from the last save point?"[/quote]
Thus, it appears that BioWare/Microsoft/EA/The NY Mets are betraying the RPG genre with not 1, not 2, but THREE third-person shooter games. Their RPGs are nowhere similar to the nostalgic days of Pokémon and its true RPG elements. They are targeting that specific audience that likes shooting, 'splosions and love scenes (none of which Pokémon had).

Or maybe that was their intention all along.

*Support Pokémon RPG elements for Mass Effect 3!*

'SPLOSIONS

Modifié par Ecael, 07 juin 2010 - 04:09 .

[Ecael]

NOTE: I have placed the summaries for what Mass Effect can learn from Pokémon here, in case you don't want to read the rest of it.

[quote]I. Inventory and Itemization[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? More items - and not just more weapons and armor (doubt they could make 150 different weapons, after all), but weapon mods, armor mods and consumables in combat. Biotics injecting "red sand" mid-combat for a boost, Techies power surging an omni-tool, Soldiers activating Stim Packs, squadmates throwing different types of grenades, all buyable from merchants (at a price). Also, squadmates should have a decent range of armor pieces and a single casual appearance on board the Normandy. If not full armor, then at least helmets and squadmate-specific items that change their appearance, as well as the ability to change the palette of their current armor.

[quote]II. Strategies and Abilities[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? The shooting is not going to change, but it would be nice if combat involved a little more than just picking the "best" mods, ammo and weapon for the situation.

[quote]III. Customization[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Squadmates should at least be semi-customizable (selectable bonus power for squadmate if they survived and are loyal?) Also, their loyalty as well as your current relationship with them should affect how well they fight in battle. Specific stat bonuses can be earned for romancing a specific character as well. Stats like squadmate accuracy, attack power, and evasiveness should be shown on the squad select screen.

[quote]IV. Progression[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Not much - the system is designed so that you're allowed to take the 2 squadmates you want (not that you can take all of them anyway). Multi-squad missions (Virmire, Omega-4) should be the norm - not the exception, however. With this many squadmates, everyone should be involved in the mission in some way, no matter how limited.

[quote]V. Immersion[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Using skippable cutscenes to hide loading (or a 'loading' time that immediately ends after the cutscene is over) is the best method. One prominent form of this is Sergeant Haron at the Citadel in Mass Effect 2 - the "Sorry for the inconvenience, ma'am" is actually a loading screen that opens the door the moment the rest of that area loads.

[quote]VI. Vehicle Combat[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? StarFox 64 ship combat and asteroid-dodging/nuking... please? =|

[quote]VII. Exploration/Open-endedness[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? If there will be planets to explore, they better be populated. If there are mercenaries there, you should run into their tanks or merc armies randomly while looking around and doing donuts around their buildings. If there are geth, dropships should do fly-bys where they drop geth in random locations around you. There needs to be more than empty terrain and empty space.

[quote]VIII. Mini-games[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? - Mini-games should be literally mini-games, not added timesinks. Being able to play Skyllian-Five Poker or Chess against anyone on the Normandy Crew for credits - especially against Legion or Mordin - would be a lot more fun than, say... planet-scanning. Raising a Varren or some other pet by more than just feeding them would also be nice. Planet-scanning should be replaced with planet-nuking. Nuke away.

[quote]IX. Side Missions[/quote]
Winner -- No one. They all lose!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Unless the loyalty missions count as side missions, they basically all lose. Side missions should be short quest chains that resolve a major problem. This is not the case right now (although we have yet to see the Overlord DLC).

[quote]X. Plot[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? Nothing, we're going to be facing the Reapers at the end of Mass Effect 3 (I hope...).

[quote]XI. Continuity/Carry-over[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? The simpler the game is, the harder it is to nitpick plot points. Mass Effect 3 has no choice but to be complex, though.

[quote]XII. Relationships and Romance...?[/quote]
Winner -- Pokémon!
-What can Mass Effect learn from this? I don't know if squadmates will be 'breeding' any time soon (well, other then Wrex and Grunt), but some kind of gameplay bonus as well as dialogue outside the Normandy relating to the romance would be helpful. Being able to buy gifts and gauge how well the relationship is going is also a plus.

Modifié par Ecael, 03 juin 2010 - 03:37 .

[TelexFerra]

Hey Ecael, that's a very interesting analysis.



I can't believe I actually read through every point. I hear that dividing long essays into multiple parts makes people more likely to read them o.0

[Sand King]

You make alot of good points Ecael.

Here is another RPG that can be learned from.

Character building and creativity.
Full story control
Etc.

p.s. sorry about the off-topic but I thought I should bring it up.

[cachx]

Mind = Blown

[Massadonious1]

This clearly proves that the Yankees are the superior NY franchise.

[Bookman230]

You forgot that Pokemon beats ME in the catchy theme song category!

[Sajuro]

Also it beats ME in being able to name your rival douche

[LPPrince]

Sand King, you shouldn't bring up SvR 2010 as an example.



If you want a better choice that's still related-



Smackdown: Here Comes The Pain.

[Massadonious1]

Pokemon had better puns/cultural refrences as well.



Jessie and James. Jessie James! Cleverness at it's finest.

[ShamieGTX]

He actually said Pokemon beats Mass Effect In the Plot.........WHAT?



next thing we'll see is Shepard throwing a pokeball to catch a squadmate.... -_______-

What? Kaidan is Evolving....... Congratulations Kaidan Evolved Into Jacob.... TinTunTunTanananaNA!!

[Massadonious1]

ShamieGTX wrote...

Congratulations Kaidan Evolved Into Jacob.... TinTunTunTanananaNA!!

Wouldn't that be "de"evolving?

[ShamieGTX]

LOL

[ShamieGTX]

Yeah Forgot its the other way around Kaidan is more interesting...equally depressing though

[AlwaysRemain]

Wow you actually took the time out of your day to compare Pokemon to Mass Effect. Huh.

[LPPrince]

ShamieGTX wrote...

He actually said Pokemon beats Mass Effect In the Plot.........WHAT?

next thing we'll see is Shepard throwing a pokeball to catch a squadmate.... -_______-
What? Kaidan is Evolving....... Congratulations Kaidan Evolved Into Jacob.... TinTunTunTanananaNA!!

1. She
2. It does
3. What do you mean, "What?"? Pokémon generally has the same general plot line in each game, and yet still, 10 years after the first set was sold, millions of people continue to purchase the new games.

Why? Because they stand the test of time.

Now, will people purchase Mass Effect/Mass Effect 2 in 10 years? Of course.

In the numbers of the Pokémon games? Hell no.

And its for the simple reason that what Pokémon does, WORKS.

[Nazo]

Quick question: does being able to figure out the exact taxonomy of a game make it more fun? Less fun? Or might you say that it doesn't matter, as long as it's fun?

[LPPrince]

Fun is subjective, so that's up to each individual person, really.



And you'd find some rather odd people out there with their definitions of fun(One friend of mine saying he had more fun with Batman: Dark Tomorrow than GTA IV)

[Ecael]

Nazo wrote...

Quick question: does being able to figure out the exact taxonomy of a game make it more fun? Less fun? Or might you say that it doesn't matter, as long as it's fun?

Actually, it makes me want to play Pokémon again.

I miss the true RPG elements.

Modifié par Ecael, 03 juin 2010 - 06:50 .

[LPPrince]

Ecael wrote...

Nazo wrote...

Quick question: does being able to figure out the exact taxonomy of a game make it more fun? Less fun? Or might you say that it doesn't matter, as long as it's fun?

Actually, it makes me want to play Pokémon again.

I miss the true RPG elements.

Pokémon Black and White come out in Japan this year, and everywhere else next year.

I can't wait.

[Bluko]

Well I never played Pokemon as kid cause I never had a Gameboy...



(I wasted way too much of my allowance on those stupid cards to cement my hatred of Pokecrack forever. I did however get a N64 as a child so I can't complain too much.)

That said Pokemon is more exemplar of the Japanese RPG. Essentially JRPG have lots of weird/unique characters, and tons of items along with all sorts of nifty stats to track. And most JRPGs are turn based... Bioware on the other hand is more of a Western RPG if you will. WRPGs are more about freedom of choice and tend to have preference to real time combat. Although there still items, stats, levels, etc. The most ideal example of WRPGs I can think of is probably the Elder Scrolls series. Personally my favorite/ideal RPG is the Baldur's Gate series.

WRPGs have some kind of central story, but along the way you are faced with many decisions to essentially be good or evil. JRPGs on the other hand tend to have a strong central plot, but don't really present you with many choices other then what to level up. In WRPGs your choices ultimately don't change the story, but do change whether you end up the Hero or the new Villian.

Bioware's games are somewhat unique in that characters are very important (Like most JRPGs), but your character is generally faced with many choices. Bioware's success is largely based on it's blend of different game elements, which in the end makes their games feel more fresh and fun.

Personally I find turn-based combat silly. I don't see how combat can be exciting or fun if you can sit around picking your nose while deciding what attack to use. I love how monsters will just sit there and wait it's turn to attack. Having "turns" to me is something more suited to strategy games. Things with roots in games like Chess. Simply put real time combat is the way to go, and you still can technically have "turns" in a real time combat system anyways.

Do you really want to see this...

Shepard has encountered.... THRESHER MAW

Shepard: "Garrus I choose you!"

GARRUS>Sniper Shot

THRESHER MAW -10 HP!

Garrus: "Scratch one!"

SHEPARD>Rocket Attack

THRESHER MAW -20 HP!

Shepard: "I should go."

THRESHER MAW>Acid Spit

GARRUS -500 HP!

SHEPARD -500 HP!

Game Over


This may well and all be fun for some, but for me not so much. Of course said battle could have been won had I only grinded XP from Vorcha so that Garrus was Level 85.

Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 are not meant to be classic RPGs. The point of the Mass Effect games is to cross genres being a hybrid of Shooter and RPG. Core gameplay wise the Mass Effect games are Third Person Shooters. There's just no escaping this. Combat is to be resolved primarily by your shooting skills. However you do have some RPG elements in the forms of Levels and Abilities. Basically the games are meant to be Shooters with RPG elements. They are not however meant to RPGs with Shooter elements. The idea is you have the fun shooting mechanics combined with some tactical RPG elements to add depth.

It's hard to classify what Mass Effect truly is, because in many ways it's almost a new genre of game. Making ME3 into a pure Shooter would just being dumbing the game down. While making ME3 into a pure RPG would just make it needlessly complicated and dull. The key to success lies in finding the right balance of Shooter stuff and RPG stuff. Which is hopefully what Mass Effect 3 will accomplish.

That said I think the general consensus is ME2 is a bit too much Shooter, and not enough RPG.

However what RPG elements are needed to make Mass Effect 3 better needs to be carefully examined within the context of what the Mass Effect games are trying to achieve. For example making weapon effectiveness entirely stat based like most RPGs is probably not the way to go.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I have been saying this for months and no one will listen to me, no one, not at all...

[LorDC]

The only thing Ecael proved is that Pokemon is better pokemon game than Mass Effect. I can prove that solitaire is better card game than Mass Effect in the same way.

[Sajuro]

Wild Blue Eclipse merc attacks!

Go Garrus!

[Jestina]

True RPGs would be games like Wizardry, Dragon Quest, early FF's, etc.



More recent ones I can think of...not many. Persona was good and Fallout still retains some of its RPGness.



And Pokemon was good. It's one of those games you'd probably enjoy but wouldn't admit to playing. You can get an emu to play the Pokemon games from the GBA days.