20 réponses à ce sujet

[Custodire]

As we're all aware, many people consider the scarcity of the lithographs important to retaining their value. However, this leaves many potential fans and customers disappointed that they might never own that picture they always wanted.

As a compromise Bioware, could you please consider releasing un-numbered, unlimited (within reason) editions of some of these beautiful pieces of art. Numbered (and limited) runs of lithographs have historically retained a much higher value, thereby honouring the investment of those lucky enough to have picked them up, while the introduction of an unnumbered, unlimited run released in parllel means that those who are more interested in having the art for aesthetic reasons, rather than as an investment still have a chance to enjoy the artwork.

Thanks.

[Crjans]

just because some of us prefer limited editions with sigs and numberings doesn't mean we see them as an "investment" you make it sound as if everyone that wants an artist signed version is looking for nothing more than a payout frankly this idea offends me

[stardazzled]

I am okay with posters showing the same objet d'art but not lithographies. AND I agree with Crjans, accusing (some) lithography owners of only being interested in them as some kind of investment... is pure nonsense.



Lithographies provide an appropriate environment to the fine piece of art that they display. To me, a limited release also honors the valuable work of the artist. Mass production sometimes decreases the ethical/cultural/artistic value of art. When it is available to everyone who can afford it, some people tend to buy it and then to rip it to shreds when they're not interested in it anymore... just because they can buy it again and again and again. You will never ever do that to a limited piece of work because its beauty is so rare. And it would be cruel to destroy it and to know, that it might never come back. Sentimental, yes, but that is how I feel about art.

[Beocat]

I too don't enjoy seeing them as "an investment". It's seeing them as an "investment" that has made the ones I want so painfully hard to attain in the first place. If you are interested in having them as a fan, you will never think of selling them in the first place.



Regardless, I could see them doing so with posters or mugs or other medium, but I believe the lithographs should remain signed/numbered due to the nature of its processing and because the original plates they process them by are destroyed once the lithographs have been made. For instance, a cloth wall-scroll of some kind with an Illium print or something of a similar design would be highly interesting to me, even though I already own the Illium lithograph, and may offer an alternative for those who missed out on that beautiful and rare lithograph.

[X in 415]

do this and all of the sudden you will start seeing fake signatures. All bad.

[Dan Matrix]

The only way you could do it is if they picked a couple new un released images and made them only in a large release format. Then still have limited runs of other lithos like they have been doing. So then anyone who wants a litho can buy one of the large release ones that are not limited and don't have a number or sign. You could print something like galactic edition where they usually sign and number them so that people can't number them themselves.

[Custodire]

The idea is a method of getting the art into the hands of people who want it, without threatening those who need rare and pretty numbers to feel as if they have something worthwhile. To the posse who feel slighted by the use of the word "investment". I would venture that either perhaps you don't understand its use in an art context as it is simply not a monetary term or are getting upset about very little at all- I realise it may sound a little cold, but your motivation for buying a piece probably doesn't matter a whit to anybody else, particularly me and especially not enough to make some dreadful accusation. Choosing to sieze upon a single word in such a fashion is a dangerous practice and risks creating strawman arguments.

415 raises a good point about fake signatures, though. In the past the risk of this occuring has been reduced by printing "unlimited" or numbering "0/0", "X/X" or some such. Yes, somebody could potentially try and white-out the number, but I think that's trotting the argument out to extremes.

Edit:  Such as D. Matrix above me has posted.

Modifié par Custodire, 03 juin 2010 - 11:10 .

[Dan Matrix]

Theres is no reason why they couldn't pick say 3 images and make them only in a large release format. Since they are only released in the large release there would be no worry of people numbering them and trying too pass them off really, since they were never released in that format too begin with. You could always print them differently or add something so that its impossible too make them look exactly like the limited ones.

Modifié par Dan Matrix, 03 juin 2010 - 11:17 .

[stardazzled]

Custodire wrote...

I realise it may sound a little cold, but your motivation for buying a piece probably doesn't matter a whit to anybody else, particularly me and especially not enough to make some dreadful accusation. Choosing to sieze upon a single word in such a fashion is a dangerous practice and risks creating strawman arguments.

Perhaps you should start using quotes as I see no one using accusing words. Also no one before you has modified his/her post. Though I'd agree with you saying that a single word can be dangerous.

[SIim Charles]

I wouldn't mind seeing other images released in the lithograph style, just without a signature or number on any of them. I do not like the idea of releasing large numbers of previously released lithos without a # or signature, though. As stated before, fakes would become rampant. Part of what makes the lithos special to me is knowing that I am one of few that owns them, obviously that isn't everything, but where is the excitement in owning something that everyone and their mother can get their hands on 20 copies of?

[Custodire]

One point in the second post...

custodire wrote...

  your motivation for buying a piece probably doesn't matter a whit to
anybody else, particularly me and especially not enough to make some
dreadful accusation.

...is to rectify your misconception that the first post is accusing.

stardazzled wrote...

 accusing (some) lithography owners of only being interested in them as some kind of investment... is pure nonsense..

For the sake of clear communication, might I suggest refraining from trying to read between the lines? I'm sure the other posters would appreciate it if we could remain on topic. I'd certainly prefer to reply to points that are pertinent and I'm sure you wouldn't want to waste time on a juvenile game of 'he said, she said'.

Thank-you kindly.

Edit: Reducing run on sentences, again.

Modifié par Custodire, 05 juin 2010 - 02:03 .

[Custodire]

SIim Charles wrote...

where is the excitement in owning something that everyone and their mother can get their hands on 20 copies of?

In that you have something nice on your wall.

No, on a serious note: though I might not agree with what constitutes special to you, I do respect it, which is why I made a suggestion for a slightly less special edition of the pictures. If you're worried about forgeries, and rightly so I suppose, perhaps an 'unlimited' or 'galactic' edition, in addition to being marked differently, could be produced in a different size or something.

Modifié par Custodire, 05 juin 2010 - 02:04 .

[Beocat]

Custodire wrote...

In that you have something nice on your wall.

Why does it have to be in lithograph form?  As I already explained to you, the plates the lithographs are printed off of are destroyed after the limited run.  Therefore, they would have to painstakingly make a new plate for it, and then go through the process of adjusting the colors till it is "just right" before they could do another run.  It is actually kind of traditional for the plates to be destroyed once the art has been run, also lending to the numbering nature of them.  This makes any future plates that are made to look like the original different and unique and there will be variances between the two sets, so it isn't really the same, and a practiced eye would be able to tell the difference easily. 

If you want the art of it, why not just get a poster form of it instead, or a wall scroll?  I'm not sure I am understanding the need to have it in lithograph form.  There are so many different types of art medium out there that a lithograph print that was widely loved by the public could be expanded to successfully, and still look nice on your wall.  Have you considered other mediums other than lithography?

[stardazzled]

Custodire wrote...
[...] those who are more interested in having the art for aesthetic reasons, rather than as an investment still have a chance to enjoy the artwork.

You seem to have forgotten your own written words like in the quoted sentence above.

On everything else, I still agree with Beocat and Crjans. I also said I'm okay with posters. The choice is up to BioWare. I am out of here because I neither want to cause trouble nor be the receiver of some.

[JestersWingman]

Beocat wrote...

Why does it have to be in lithograph form?  As I already explained to you, the plates the lithographs are printed off of are destroyed after the limited run.  Therefore, they would have to painstakingly make a new plate for it, and then go through the process of adjusting the colors till it is "just right" before they could do another run.  It is actually kind of traditional for the plates to be destroyed once the art has been run, also lending to the numbering nature of them.  This makes any future plates that are made to look like the original different and unique and there will be variances between the two sets, so it isn't really the same, and a practiced eye would be able to tell the difference easily. 

If you want the art of it, why not just get a poster form of it instead, or a wall scroll?  I'm not sure I am understanding the need to have it in lithograph form.  There are so many different types of art medium out there that a lithograph print that was widely loved by the public could be expanded to successfully, and still look nice on your wall.  Have you considered other mediums other than lithography?

Beocat is right on the money - the process to create lithographs does not lend itself well to mass production and multiple print runs, and asking for posters is more reasonable because they're much easier to
mass produce and reprint as needed.

Custodire wrote...

The idea is a method of getting the art
into the hands of people who want it, without threatening those who
need rare and pretty numbers to feel as if they have something
worthwhile.

I further agree with him (and stardazzled and most everyone else) in that it sounds like you aren't really interested in the process that creates them so much as you just want to be able to hang some form of the images on your wall.

If you think the signature and numbering are all that make us think they're worthwhile, I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken. The signature and numbering are standard fare when it comes to lithographs as an art form because they are a reflection of what went into creating them - the former gives credit where it's due because it is a painstaking process to even create the plates; while the latter is an indication/reminder that the printing was also time consuming work since each print is done individually, and when it comes right down to it, no two prints are exactly alike. Only the best (however many) copies pass muster and are then sold.

[Dsurian]

To be honest Custodire, I agree that we should be able to enjoy the art that we care for. I'm still yearning for a Price of Power Litho and absolutely hate the fact that I'll likely have to hand out at least $200+ to some random person who honestly doesn't deserve my money if I ever want to own a copy - but it's close to impossible to have another Lithograph created, and another medium (posters, *NOT* mugs, etc.) simply won't be an acceptable substitute for you, me, or likely anyone else (I will admit that cloth scrolls certainly have an appeal for DA:O prints, but as Bioware/Treehouse have likely not even considered this, it seems unlikely they will bother at this juncture).

Everyone else, Custodire obviously did not mean any offensive implication - but since many people have obviously used the LE Litho's to turn a personal profit (something that these people could only do with a LE product) and effectively keep earnest, less-financially-secure, dedicated fans from enjoying something wonderful, Custodire's point is meritable! - despite however the relatively few people choosing to comment in this thread feel. 

Now...are we done beating this dead horse?...seriously?!? I mean, I'm sure you all can keep this going, but I'm fairly certain this topic has come to a close.  Everyone has made there points with no clear mutual reciprocation in sight - END!

Modifié par Dsurian, 06 juin 2010 - 10:35 .

[Custodire]

I'd just like to say "I told you so" and "thank-you, Bioware".

[Tennyochan]

wtf this was 3 months ago! i read this wondering why i haven't replied here....



People actually agreed with your idea in appreciating the art but not in the method/form the art was reproduced(litho vs poster vs scroll vs paper weight)-and we still don't, as seen in the mini's thread. Perspectives over ways to honor the agreement with previous customers will always differ, but we agree that everyone should be able to appreciate these art pieces.



So there is no need for the -i was right, you we're wrong la lala la "i Told you so", its ultimately up to bioware and even so, the art pieces have been modified to pay respect to the initial agreement with buyer/seller. Heck, bioware rep even asked the community's opinion on this matter, to which the mini lithographs- you now see, are available.

[Beocat]

Yeah... I felt the I told you so wa a little childish too.

[ilikeicehockey]

it just shows where your maturity level is at

[stardazzled]

I guess, Custodire got the hint, that "I told ya!" is sooo  . We all can stop bashing now.  (But yeah, Jed listened.)