9058 réponses à ce sujet

[cave_fatuam]

Don't let it get to you. I kind of wanted to crawl in a ball when they were shooting down having a warden in your fic at all... but I just shrugged it off. People will like things, and people will dislike things. As far as I'm concerned, Maeve can run around in the desert shooting things and Maggie can be Ferelden's favorite Maleficar foreverdy ever.
You get lots of reviews because your fic is fun, entertaining, and just frackin' delightful even when awful things happen. We can't all just discuss Ferelden politics all the dadgum time. Relationships are the backbone of civilization, so it just makes sense that people would identify more with fics dealing with them.

Edit for picture:
Old Picture is old...

Modifié par cave_fatuam, 11 novembre 2010 - 01:10 .

[Sarah1281]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

(Wondering if I should be taking the discussion in the ffsucks thread right now as personally as I am. Since everyone is ****ing about how much "relationship fics" suck and how it isn't fair they get a lot of reviews, with some very very nasty comments about the genre in general. Since I have one of those "relationship fics" with a lot of reviews... I'm really biting my tongue.)

I haven't gotten to read your story yet (I think I've just read Addai's story, Raonar's, Merilsell's, and a few of Lady D's of the people here) but I'm planning on doing it soon. Seriously, I've been wanting to for ages but it's just so long that I wanted to get my story done first and some homework-related things and will hopefully have a chance to start around this weekend or shortly after. I have read your prompt responses, though, and those have been very good. It seems like they aren't really bashing on relationship stories in general, just crappy ones. I think we all know of those stories that have a ton of reviews and yet you read them and they turn out to be the Twilight of fanfiction. It's frustrating if you know a story sucks and yet it's getting a lot of attention and you're pretty sure that your story is at least better than that one and yet you don't get nearly as much. (And for that matter it's frustrating seeing other stories get a ton of attention and yours don't even if it's good but then at least they deserve the attention)

There are a lot of things that influence how much attention a story will get even without taking into account how well-written it is. You have a series of stories all interconnected, you update frequently, there are a ton of chapters, you've been doing this for months, you have reasonably popular characters as the ones listed for the story...and at the end of the day there are a lot of people looking for a good romance. Just because you're writing what people want to read doesn't make it automatically bad. Since Anders isn't romanceable in the game, if someone's looking for an Anders romance fix they can't just play the game like with origin romances, they'll have to find a story. These things count as well as just luck that some of the multitude of people reading your story decide to review.

My main DA story currently has 187 reviews for 32 chapters and while some stories do get more for less (and not all of them relationship ones) I keep in mind that I have REALLY long chapter, only one listed character, that character being a dwarf, and there's virtually no romance in the story at all and realize that I'm actually doing pretty good.

[Miri1984]

@Lupus: seriously, do people looking for high quality literature read and review fanfiction? I mean, I have an English degree, I'm an English teacher and I love the classics but I never open up a fanfiction with the expectation that it's going to be Austen or Shakespeare. I open up a fanfic because I love the characters and I want to read about them. If the story happens to be well written (as I think yours are) then that's just icing on the cake. If it's badly written, I stop reading it.



Call me shallow but I have no real desire to wade into a deep political analysis of a game world. Unless there's some Alistair or Anders smut in it as well, of course.



@Sarah, I haven't read your Aunn story for precisely the reasons above and although I want to read it because it's you, I might not get around to it for a while because to be honest I prefer reading relationship fics.



There are just more "me" types of fanfic readers out there. Again, popular doesn't equate to good, but it also doesn't equate to bad. I hate that people think things that "everyone" likes are crap.

[cave_fatuam]

Miri1984 wrote...
Again, popular doesn't equate to good, but it also doesn't equate to bad. I hate that people think things that "everyone" likes are crap.

Exactly. It's like when people say that the Mona Lisa is overrated, just because everyone knows of it.  Popularity is not a qualifier of quailty, positive or negative.

Personally, I have read fics and thought that the writing wasn't stunning, but the story and characters were enjoyable. If I'm being entertained then it's exceeding it's base level purpose, which is arguably allowing the writer to express themselves. So, the author gets a little self-expression and I while away an hour. Win-win... and if there is some smut or snuggly-buggly bits in there, I don't argue with it.

Anders On Fanfiction....

Modifié par cave_fatuam, 11 novembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Miri1984]

@Cave that pic is priceless.

[LupusYondergirl]

I know I'm overreacting, and really, I shouldn't care, but... *shrug*

I'm just having one of those insecure days, I suppose.

[Miri1984]

@Lupus *strokes ego* You rock lady. Don't let anyone make you think otherwise.



Anders certainly thinks so. I like to think this image is him thanking us for giving him so much smut

[Avilia]

@Lupus - unless you have a cast iron ego criticism is always hard. I say ignore it - your stories are well written and fun and you'll never please everyone.

I haven't seen the posts you're talking about but I'm going to make a big assumption that they're either a) people who can't write but wish they could or people who want everything written only in the precise style they like and appreciate.

Neither of which is realistically possible. You just keep doing what you do - they can go bite themselves somewhere tender ;-)

Edit - okay I've glanced at the thread now.  Seriously 'wtf?' If I want a political polemic I'll read Solzhenitsyn not DA fanfic

Modifié par Avilia, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:57 .

[Sarah1281]

I think that's being a little harsh. They're not bashing anyone's fic in particular, they're just complaining that terrible relationship stories and porn so non-specific to DA that you could fill in any male and female (or male and male or female and female) and the story would work just as well sometimes get a lot of attention and wish that the quality of the story and the amount of reviews it gets always had a positive correlation. If you write a story with a lot of reviews that is about relationships and does have sex scenes but it doesn't actually suck, they were not actually referring to you or your story.

[Estral27]

@Lupus: I am currently in the middle of AoA and I love it. I haven't visited the fanfic sucks thread so I am not very informed as to the jist of the discussion, but I just had to bust in and let you know how much I look forward to reading what you have written.



(My boyfriend chuckles at my before-bed routine = cup of tea + ATLEAST 2 chapters of AoA)

[Avilia]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think that's being a little harsh. They're not bashing anyone's fic in particular, they're just complaining that terrible relationship stories and porn so non-specific to DA that you could fill in any male and female (or male and male or female and female) and the story would work just as well sometimes get a lot of attention and wish that the quality of the story and the amount of reviews it gets always had a positive correlation. If you write a story with a lot of reviews that is about relationships and does have sex scenes but it doesn't actually suck, they were not actually referring to you or your story.

Me? I've read my comments a few times and hope I wasn't being harsh.  I got a feeling of intellectual snobbery from the posts I read but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I think writing, like movies, games and other forms of entertainment, should cater to all tastes and interests.  I include fanfic in that.

My comment regarding Solz wasn't to denigrate fanfic but my perception of intellectual snobbery.  Perhaps I expressed myself poorly.

[Sarah1281]

Avilia wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think that's being a little harsh. They're not bashing anyone's fic in particular, they're just complaining that terrible relationship stories and porn so non-specific to DA that you could fill in any male and female (or male and male or female and female) and the story would work just as well sometimes get a lot of attention and wish that the quality of the story and the amount of reviews it gets always had a positive correlation. If you write a story with a lot of reviews that is about relationships and does have sex scenes but it doesn't actually suck, they were not actually referring to you or your story.

Me? I've read my comments a few times and hope I wasn't being harsh.  I got a feeling of intellectual snobbery from the posts I read but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I think writing, like movies, games and other forms of entertainment, should cater to all tastes and interests.  I include fanfic in that.

My comment regarding Solz wasn't to denigrate fanfic but my perception of intellectual snobbery.  Perhaps I expressed myself poorly.

I just don't see the snobbery in what was there at the time (although the thread has since gotten another "Oh, you silly fanfic writers wasting your lives, if you have any real talent you should write a real book" post ). From what I understand, the people there mentioned that they did not like stories they felt to be poorly written. Many of those poorly written stories are relationship stories but that doesn't mean all relationship stories suck. Many of them are also porn stories that are generic, embarassing, unrealistic, whatever. I saw it as just a wish that good stories got good reviews and bad stories were ignored. I guess you could see it as elitism that the bad stories people were talking about were also popular and so therefore lots of people liked them but I don't think that disliking popular things necessitates that you be an elitist.

Of course, entertainment caters to all tastes and there is going to be some that you don't like. If you don't like it you could see it as well or decently written but not your cup of tea or else you could see it as being poorly written which is generally subjective. I don't think finding certain stories poorly written to be snobbery either. It's like if someone said that they hated Twilight or Jersey Shore because and wished that people would read quality books and watch quality television shows. You could be an elitist about it, sure, but just saying that doesn't make you one.

[Avilia]

@Sarah I won't quote and cause a nest ;-)



I see what you're saying but I did get a very strong impression they were also saying that their stories were better. I don't generally visit that thread so I'll bow to your better knowledge of the posters and their usual behaviour.



I did see that post you refer to - 'write a real book' I wonder what he classifies as a real book? Most fanfic writers put as much blood sweat and tears into their fics as published authors and deserve to have their work treated as seriously. Okay I'm off my soapbox now ;-)

[LupusYondergirl]

No, I've also felt an ENORMOUS amount of intellectual snobbery from that thread. Probably why I, and just about every other thread regular who does write a relationship fic, have avoided jumping in. I and one other person made joking comments of the "hey, we post here too" variety which were summarily ignored. And followed with comments about how even 'good' relationship stories aren't for 'thinking men.'

[Sarah1281]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

No, I've also felt an ENORMOUS amount of intellectual snobbery from that thread. Probably why I, and just about every other thread regular who does write a relationship fic, have avoided jumping in. I and one other person made joking comments of the "hey, we post here too" variety which were summarily ignored. And followed with comments about how even 'good' relationship stories aren't for 'thinking men.'

Really? I didn't notice that but since I never write romance fics, I'd be less inclined to notice, I suppose. If people were talking about how humor fics get all the attention and how most humor fics are really stupid (and I've seen plenty that are) then I'd probably have taken more notice instead of sticking with the basic 'Why can't good stories get reviews and bad stories get ignored?' message. Not all bad stories get a ton of reviews and not all good stories are ignored, but it does happen often enough. I hope you don't think that I was being elitist there because I definitely wasn't trying to be. I don't write relationship stories, true, but that's mostly because I'm pretty sure I'd fail at them and deciding that something must suck because I'm not good at it seems a bit petty.

[cave_fatuam]

I think the point that everyone is missing is that this is just for fun. No one is really profiting from this in anyway, besides the occasional warm fuzzy feeling and a sense that they've done something. No matter how serious you take your fic, it should just be born out of some sense of enjoyment. It doesn't have to be Proust, you just have to like doing it.

If I just want to write a fic about how much Anders likes pudding... then dammit, I'll do it and like it. It doesn't have to be some intellectual reflection on his relationship with his mother or an allegory for Ferelden's relationship with Antiva... it's just pudding.

@Lupus
It's probably not helping that you're getting an e-mail every time someone comments.
*hug*

Modifié par cave_fatuam, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:04 .

[Miri1984]

It's the age old problem of writers everywhere. Do I write my introspective, difficult to read magnum opus that will be lauded critically and proclaimed the best novel ever but make me ABSOLUTELY NO MONEY, or do I write a pulp Mills & Boon that millions of people will read and enjoy?



Truly it's up to the writer. And "good" is so subjective a judgement. As Avilia said, the people on that thread wouldn't be moaning so much about how "good" fics get ignored if they didn't think their own fics fit in to that category.



And I'm in the process of uploading all my fics to DevArt - crikey it's annoying. On topic, though, since I'm sensing a bit of grumpiness in the air:

[cave_fatuam]

@ Miri
Uploading things to DevArt is now an every other week thing for me, b/c it's just so time consuming. You legitimately have to set time aside just for it. XD

My Anders likes turnips by the way... so yeah, I'm not a classy writer. Just silly and ZOMGDraMAZ up in here. -shrug-

[Avilia]

@Miri Hugh Laurie should be flattered by that pic ;-)

@Cave - that is too cute!  He's so proud of his turnip...erm, you know what I mean.

Edit - Curse my inability to type fast on my phone...

Modifié par Avilia, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[Miri1984]

I'D be proud of Anders' turnip... hur hur..

Oh, and Cave, I think Lupus is referring to the fanfic sucks thread here on BSN rather than the POT thread - which also has its fair share of intellectual snobbery .

I'm all bouncy at the moment because I've had sleep AND I drew a picture of Alim today that looked extremely vaguely like him.

[LupusYondergirl]

@Miri: The idea of attempting that gives me cold chills. I can't even get my icons to look right for the few things I have uploaded. Instead of the nice preview box I just have a grey square that says "literature."



@Sarah: No worries, you were absolutely not one of the people I got that vibe from at all.



@Cave: New thread... over here in the community creations forum, not on peopleofthedas.

Ah, what a week.



(Currently: writing a paper on how Paul Atradies in Dune follows the formula for an "Alger hero" exactly. Wishing I was writing my warden based relationship fic instead. But Dune is good, too.)

[cave_fatuam]

@Miri
I know. I figured that out like five seconds after I posted that. hehe I was tracking the POT thread to just see what everyone thought their tropes were and I had to un-Track it like 10 minutes into that. XD
I was just generally being outraged/making pudding jokes anyway, so I stand by my ludicrousness. ;D

Yay! If you can upload it somewhere I can give you a con-crit. I'm not snobby or elitist about it, so no worries. I'm just excited you're actually working on it. People always complain that they can't draw then just don't do anything.

@Lupus
Oh, Muad'dib. "My own name is a killing word." :<
I had a professor who wanted to place Jungian archetypes over everything. He killed all that was great about Dune by twisting things around until they didn't mean anything. -le sigh-

Modifié par cave_fatuam, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:40 .

[Miri1984]

@Lupus, oh, mine all have that grey square too I didn't bother trying to make it look all fancy!

@Cave I abandoned the POT thread after the first few posts. And I'd love to show off my Alim sketch, but I drew it on my daughter's roll of scrap butchers' paper . Even if we had a scanner it would come out all brown! I promised myself that if I stuck with this for more than two weeks I'd buy some nice sketch books, and if I stick with it for more than six months I'll buy myself a tablet. I DID allow myself the luxury of buying some really nice pencils though.

Also, is Alistair easier for you to draw than Anders? He seems a bit more conventional looking - just to my eye. I've been wanting to try one of them but I think I couldn't bear it if Anders didn't look anything like himself. I'd be less upset if Alistair didn't .

[cave_fatuam]

@Miri
Honestly, I find Anders to be a lot easier personally, but that being said Alistair would probably be easier starting out. He's kind of got Superman face, where everything is classically handsome and balanced... well his nose is slightly crooked, but you catch my drift, yeah?
In fact once you get Alistair down roughly, you can just lift the jaw, lengthen the face/nose, and ta da Anders basic facial structure. XD
Oh BioWare and their very general face models...

Modifié par cave_fatuam, 11 novembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[Miri1984]

@Cave

Noses are problematical with me at the moment. I can do eyes (sorta) and mouths (they're actually pretty good) but noses just look like weird long things with two holes poked in 'em for me at the moment. I'm using aforementioned butchers paper to draw noses at the moment, it looks like some strange olfactory fetish magazine.

And hooray for drawing from screenshots - much, much easier than trying to do it from regular photographs. If only I could do something for more than five minutes without a small person insisting I do something for THEM instead. Damn this having to actually parent your children thing...