9058 réponses à ce sujet

[Wedger]

i miss the smirk too.

But - I am hopeful that there will be a part in the game for redemption. DA has been big on redemption - for the most part. (Zev - Loghain - to name 2)

Although - i don't think one can ever really change another person (one has to change oneself) - perhaps we'll be given some chance to show Anders that Vengence is not so hot.

If not - I'm rolling with it. Anders is too hot not to.

Modifié par Wedger, 16 février 2011 - 01:48 .

[nenosronhir]

I'm still trying to figure out why people are getting hung up over the fact that Anders consumed parts of the wardens/templars that were trying to kill him. .. Well, no, I can understand why that'd be a put off, but I personally think it's fantastic that his writer hasn't glossed over the fact he's fused with a demon, especially considering we're all aware of how horrific demons/abominations are. Instead, we've been slapped with what he can become if pushed to the limit, which I think is excellent.

I'm still shocked that he's a LI over Varric because of this(although there were obviously other factors involved); I really hope the story snippet is a teaser as to how dark his character can get (as with many, I definitely don't want him dark and brooding/raging all the time), and if (when) something sets him off, I'm looking forward to having Hawke witness all that rage and draw her own conclusions about who he is and what he's about.

I'm hoping that we get a lot of grey-areas with his romance/character, and it certainly seems like we might if Orzammar/The Deep Roads are any hint as to what this writer is capable of.

Mostly off-topic here, but what did you folks do when it came to Branka/Caridin and Bhelen/Harrowmont? I've always destroyed the anvil, and my first game I put Harrowmont on the throne, and was left gaping at the epilogue slide, so I've found an excuse to put Bhelen on the throne ever since(except for my mage, who I just couldn't think would saddle anyone with a tyrannical megalomaniac).

In my DA2 import playthrough, I'm torn. My Warden has gone and done Orzammar last, and seeing the deep roads has basically just ground home the absolute evil of the darkspawn; I'm not sure what she's going to decide when it comes to Branka. As a woman, and a person with a respect for life, I imagine she'll be horrified by what Branka has done, and at the cost of making golems. As a Grey Warden, however, considering what the golems did for the dwarves, and how they were what held for the darkspawn for so long... I'm not sure what side will win out. :<

Modifié par nenosronhir, 16 février 2011 - 02:34 .

[Miri1984]

I always go Bhelen/destroy Anvil/Kill Branka. That's one decision I never, ever had any trouble with. Branka is one CRAZY lady and the Anvil enslaves living souls.



And re: Anders and his "cannibalism" the guy who keeps going on about it in the DA2 thread is totally a troll, I'd ignore him if I was you.

[LupusYondergirl]

My cannon game (Maggie) destroyed the Anvil since she thought it would be used to force people to become golems, and it reminded her too much of being forced to become a tranquil.

She picked Bhelen, though, since she thought running an errand wouldn't be as public as fighting in a proving (and at least let the Wardens keep the facade of neutrality). And, she thought Harrowmont would be weaker, and figured the Wardens needed a strong Orzammar since they were basically the front line against darkspawn.



Plus, Bhelan swore to get her troops. Harrowmont said he'd ask the assembly.

[Miri1984]

@ Lupus Absolutely. Harrowmont was such a complete pansy about the whole deal. I went with Bhelen every time bar my Aeducan, and now I think my Aeducan would probably have told Harrowmont to stuff it even though Bhelen was the one who betrayed her.

[Galagraphia]

As usual, people focus on details and miss the whole picture. Lol, I've missed the flesh eating part when I read for the first time XD



Anders (changes back into Anders)

Hawke: Anders? Um, say something? Something funny, please?

Anders: Eeew, I think I ate that hurlock's head.

Varric: I suppose this can be useful, one less mouth to feed.

Carver: You're lucky you can eat everything, mage. I'm terrified every time she cooks the dinner.

Hawke: Hey! *pokes Carver*

Anders: I miss Oghren's brew.

Hawke: Huh?

Anders: Old Grey Warden joke.



@nenosronhir, yes, Hepler knows how to surprise players.

I usually destroy the anvil. Because I usually bring Shale with me and I adore her. I sided with Branka once, but then I told her she was wrong and she killed herself and destroyed the anvil.

Bhelen shocked me when I made him the king, but he was trying to change things in Orzammar while Harrowmont was more concerned about looking good and noble. Of course after all that and Hepler's story about Anders I almost expect his romance to be the best one in BW history, though I'm fighting hard with that because I don't want to be prejudiced.

[TripLight]

I go Bhelen/Kill Branka/Anvil as well. I did  Harrowmont and Burkel on first run through, saw the epilogue card and felt absolutely horrible. My second playthrough, I actually talked to Bhelen and learned he wanted to kill the case system, so putting ****** on the throne didn't seem so bad that time.

Branka will NEVER live through any of my playthroughs..what she did to her house..to Laryn..to Hespith, no character of mine could ever forgive, no matter the circumstances. I get still get so  agitated and disturbed every time I hear Hespith chant.

For Anders, I really don't get why people are so worked up about it the flesh nibbling,I mean Sten murdered children in a fit of rage over a lost sword, and no one complains about that.  I am looking forward to exploring his whole plot, and I am not going to judge it till I've actually played it, if only others could do that as well.

[Galagraphia]

 Hm, I think I must quote DG from DA2 forums, because he confirmed what I was surmising:

[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...
Also it confirms in the anders mini story that the warden recruited him and he was at wardens keep, that didnt happen in my game. I mean come on anders only has like 3 outcomes, it wouldnt of been hard for bioware to of made every choice count.[/quote]

A game can support alternate versions. A short story cannot. If you never recruited Anders, he was never at Vigil's Keep. So it might have happened as the short story lays out, it might not.

He did become a Grey Warden, however, whether you recruited him or not, and he eventually met Justice in that case-- whether Justice was in Kristoff's body or not.

Did we hand-wave your choice to not recruit Anders? Sure did. But that doesn't mean we contradict it, despite your assumptions.

[quote]TJPags wrote...
But what about the ending combos where Anders dies defending the Keep, yet Justice stays with the Wardens for a period of time?[/quote]

That is explained.

I'm not going to explain it to you now. You'll have to play it to see.

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...
How was it possible for anders to escape 
the templers after you hand him over IF wardens keep was not saved and 
your player was the only surviving warden at the end of awakening? The 
warden trainer at the keep would not of been alive if the wardens keep 
fell, So there would of been no wardens except for the player to of made
anders a warden.
[/quote]

Clearly another Warden would have recruited him?

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...
David, How can Anders be a grey warden if all the wardens except for your character was alive at the end of awakening? thats a possible outcome, Plus if vigil's keep falls as well then there is no other warden alive in that country except for your character (alistair is dead, anora is queen, Plus all other awakening grey warden characters are dead)[/quote]

There are Wardens in other countries?

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...
This is all abit far fetched though, 
Wardens from another country wouldnt defy the chantry because as we all 
know, Wardens like to stay out of it, Our character had motivation to 
recruit anders by other grey wardens from other countrys wouldnt of 
recruited anders because they werent in their own country and would of 
angered the chantry, thus risking war.[/quote]

Then nothing we could say would make you happy, I guess. *shrug*

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...
Yea I understand that, But other wardens from another country wouldnt risk recruiting anders because they would of risked war with the fereldan chantry. The wardens in Fereldan are ok recruiting anders because we are the warden commander, If a warden from orlays came, they wouldnt recruit anders or risk war with the chantry. they simply wouldnt risk it.[/quote]

So... you know what the Grey Wardens would or would not do?

Well alrighty, then. Clearly you know better than I do.

Like I said, it's a hand-wave overall. We do explain how things came to be depending on your end result, but we don't sit there and guide you through it step-by-step. We treat the epilogues as hearsay and rumor, after all, and when it comes to things that were forecast far in the future they may indeed still happen. If you want to treat them as more than that, that's up to you.

[quote]Aldaris951 wrote...
In future games, I would prefer that if a character is killed off, that there wont be some loophole for that character to come back. Doing what they did with anders just removes choices from the game.[/quote]

Not every choice carries forward into a future game, and of those that do they do not have an equal effect. That's simply the way it is, and it doesn't "remove" anything from the original game. Even had we established a single canon to carry forward (which many games do) that still wouldn't "remove" anything from the original game.

If you or anyone wish to treat the epilogues as something other than rumors and hearsay, as I said, that's your choice. If you treat them as hard and fast canon, however, never to be controverted, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

[quote]Btw Duncan's body was never found, so why not bring him back as well? if we are going by that reasoning. (I would love a duncan cameo in DA2)[/quote]

We could bring Duncan back, if we wished. You could have seen him killed, and we could still bring him back if we really wanted to. We don't.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
The only thing that I'm not too keen on if all the epilogues are treated as fair game to handwaving is that in Origins/Awakening[/quote]

Of course not. Like I said, not all choices carry forward, and of those that do not all are equal. We don't deliberately set out to contradict everything you read in the epilogues. Even rumor and hearsay has to have some truth to it. The fact that not all events didn't turn out like you'd heard doesn't suddenly render up down and black white.

[quote]I can understand some of the more long term ones being ignored for the time being, but even in Witch Hunt, I was a little disappointed how in every Origins epilogue for Morrigan she heads west across the Frostbacks or even ends up in the Orlesian court, and yet WH takes place back in Ferelden.[/quote]

Perhaps she did head there, and came back. Or she could head there again. Hearing rumors that Morrigan was spotted in Orlais doesn't mean that no other events could possibly have happened.

[quote]As long as the explanations are decent with respect to the handwaving and it makes for a better story, thats all I can hope for... although I still want to know what all of the Wardens "vanishing" at the end of Awakening meant[/quote]

That may indeed come up. Some things are explained, some things are not. I think some people are always going to hold every last detail, no matter how vague, as a sacred cow-- and thus attempts on our part to explain aren't going to satisfy them anyhow. I don't think we're too worried about it, and I'll leave it at that.
[/quote]

I want to stick it to the top as FAN: frequently asked nonsense.

[Miri1984]

YES I LOVE IT HE IS GOD.

[nenosronhir]

Oooh, I forgot that Harrowmont ****-footed around guaranteeing troops to combat the blight. Strike 758945894 on his part, even if Bhelen's an ass, at least he's progressive and reliable.

As for the Anvil - I know that the combination of Branka/Bhelen is eventually going to lead to folks being forced into golemhood. Problem is, my Warden can't help but think of the ways it could be put to good use; the Legion of the Dead, who "kill" themselves anyway, giving them the choice of becoming a golem to protect Orzammar.. how many might take that as a way to redeem themselves (particularly if they are allowed to retain their consciousness as with Caridin).

Then there's the matter of their criminals, who are sentenced to kill as many darkspawn out in the deep roads - what's worse; death by darkspawn, slow corruption, broodmotherhood, or becoming a golem?

And finally, probably the most morbid thought that crossed my mind; the Calling. Would some Wardens sacrifice their free will to continue fighting darkspawn after death, rather than die alone in the deeps?

I think the Anvil is definitely bad news, and destroying it is the way to go, but I can't deny that (while not good) it could be useful. Even if it takes lives to make the golems, they're said to be as strong as 10 dwarves or so - how many more lives might be saved? Especially since the darkspawn are a blight on the dwarven people whenever they aren't rampaging across the surface. Is it right for an outsider to make that decision for them? And setting aside morality, considering only the darkspawn threat, what would a Warden do?

Edit: GO GAIDER! <3<3 Fantabulous.

Modifié par nenosronhir, 16 février 2011 - 03:35 .

[Sarah1281]

Then there's the matter of their criminals, who are sentenced to kill as many darkspawn out in the deep roads - what's worse; death by darkspawn, slow corruption, broodmotherhood, or becoming a golem?

It's not like they can force anyone to die fighting darkspawn. They just exile them to the Deep Roads with no armor and a weapon. If they would rather kill themselves than risk letting the darkspawn have them, then they'll die anyway. The whole point of not executing the criminals is so Orzammar has another person keeping darkspawn away from the city (and if they're any good they might reach the Legion) and so the criminal themself has an opportunity to redeem their honor.

[LupusYondergirl]

You know, I always wondered if they would stop sentencing women to the deep roads if the discovery of how broodmothers are made was revealed. It seems almost self defeating that any woman they send out there could just be captured to make more darkspawn.

[Galagraphia]

Because I swear, if Andes won't notice Hawke's breasts then he's gay )))

[nenosronhir]

It's not like they can force anyone to die fighting darkspawn. They just exile them to the Deep Roads with no armor and a weapon. If they would rather kill themselves than risk letting the darkspawn have them, then they'll die anyway. The whole point of not executing the criminals is so Orzammar has another person keeping darkspawn away from the city (and if they're any good they might reach the Legion) and so the criminal themself has an opportunity to redeem their honor.

Ah, true enough. Well, if anything, I suppose forcing golemhood on criminals would ensure they dedicated themselves to killing darkspawn at the least - I certainly can't see them allowing criminals to retain their self-awareness, either.

@Lupus You'd think they would. I find it hard to believe the dwarves don't already know about broodmothers, however... :\\\\

@Gala LOL. win

Modifié par nenosronhir, 16 février 2011 - 03:55 .

[Miri1984]

He totally ogles the Warden's breasts at EVERY opportunity.

[Galagraphia]

Another morning doodle before I ran at work:

[LupusYondergirl]

Gala: I LOVE YOU!

That had to be said.

And Anders also seems to enjoy staring at the Warden's butt. Naughty Anders.

[tankgirly]

By snow-wolfos



Excuse my language, but I think the guy in DAII Anders thread yacking about cannibalism is a total jack-a*se.



That's the moment I decided I no longer want to hang out in that thread and back to this one.

[ashez2ashes]

I ignore this thread for a week and now Anders is some dark malificar/abomination? WTF life.

Modifié par ashez2ashes, 16 février 2011 - 04:20 .

[Miri1984]

@Tank Have to agree with you there.

[Wedger]

Oh Gala. Bosoms & Pie. Two such wanderful things. And I love the look on his face in these two "doodles."

[tankgirly]

ashez2ashes wrote...

I ignore this thread for a week and now Anders is some dark malificar/abomination? WTF life.

Take it or trash it. Haters gotta hate. I will love Anders regardless.

Modifié par tankgirly, 16 février 2011 - 04:25 .

[Galagraphia]

@Tank, welcome back! The amount of flood in DAII forums is depressing, I've decided to doodle instead of reading it.

edit: oh, lol, someone said Anders' eating a meat pie and why the hell am I thinking of my Sweeney Todd crossover again?

Modifié par Galagraphia, 16 février 2011 - 04:31 .

[ashez2ashes]

tankgirly wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

I ignore this thread for a week and now Anders is some dark malificar/abomination? WTF life.

Take it or trash it. Haters gotta hate. I will love Anders regardless.

AND he's a cannibal apparently??? Maybe they'll be an option to de-demonfi him as part of a storyline... I hope. 

Now I've got the image of my warden shaking abomination Anders like an angry mother. What do you have in your mouth Anders? A demon? Spit it out right now! Or so help me...

Where is all this info anyways? Can someone point me towards it?

Modifié par ashez2ashes, 16 février 2011 - 04:36 .

[cave_fatuam]

A cannibal would be a person who eats flesh. Anders' technically not a person if he's changed form when he's nomming down. XD Watch Cave rationalize. Go Cave! Go!

Modifié par cave_fatuam, 16 février 2011 - 04:44 .