76 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

adam_grif wrote...
The codex gives us a speed of 12 lightyears / day. This is a speed of precisely 4383x the speed of light. This is a "typical" FTL speed, and top speed is limited by the relative size of the Eezo core and the mass of the ship, so small scout ships like the SR2 with an oversized core can presumably go considerably faster than this.

I would not use that for any sensible calculations. That would mean colonization in a 1000-2000ly radius around a mass relay was feasible. Considering that habitable planets seem to be relatively common and the number of stars in such a volume of space, the power of the civilizations in the ME universe would have to be so much greater than what we see in the games. Humanity would be a dust particle compared to the greater powers. ME:Revelation says typical FTL speed is 50 times lightspeed. That seems much more reasonable.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 juin 2010 - 10:52 .

[Ecael]

adam_grif wrote...

STG wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

We do not have any solid numbers on the actual FTL speeds of ME ships in any case

WRONG.

Actually I just checked and in Mass Effect FTL drives are typically 12x the Speed of Light according to the Codex.

ALSO WRONG.

Haha, don't be absurd. No woman could ever love me.

Secure those negative waves, Durand.

[adam_grif]

ME:Revelation says typical FTL speed is 50 times lightspeed. That seems much more reasonable.

If true, that means that ME2 took place over several years, since at 50C it takes you weeks to travel between nearby star-systems (that's nearly 4 weeks from Earth to Alpha Centauri), and you hop all over the place with alarming frequency. Traveling 20-30 LY to get some platinum is a common occurence, and even the bare-minimum it takes you for the story to happen with no upgrades would place it at several months of travel.

[adam_grif]

Oh and I should also add that habbitable planets appear to be quite common... around Mass Relays. It's very plausible that they simply placed Relays near the best clusters of habitable planets. The further they go out, the less they find, and thus there is less insentive to stray from the Relays.



As a whole, the timeline of MEverse is screwed in the head anyway. The Asari should be a plague on the galaxy, having nearly filled it. They can breed with any species, are attracted to every species, and live upwards of 1000 years. They found the citadel circa 1 C.E., and have been space faring for thousands of years. They should be everywhere by now, but they're confined to a relatively small portion of space. That the humans could come in and make a dent with civilizations that are thousands of years old is hilarious. Total hack writing.

[Wildecker]

Ieldra2 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
The codex gives us a speed of 12 lightyears / day. This is a speed of precisely 4383x the speed of light. This is a "typical" FTL speed, and top speed is limited by the relative size of the Eezo core and the mass of the ship, so small scout ships like the SR2 with an oversized core can presumably go considerably faster than this.

I would not use that for any sensible calculations. That would mean colonization in a 1000-2000ly radius around a mass relay was feasible. Considering that habitable planets seem to be relatively common and the number of stars in such a volume of space, the power of the civilizations in the ME universe would have to be so much greater than what we see in the games. Humanity would be a dust particle compared to the greater powers. ME:Revelation says typical FTL speed is 50 times lightspeed. That seems much more reasonable.

Only if you don't compare it to the distance between stars. With 50 X c (c for speed of light in vacuum)  you will need about one month to reach the star closest to Earth.
Even with 360 c (about one lightyear per day!) it's still four and a half days to Alpha Centauri.

If you accept 12 lightyears per day as a reasonable speed to travel between stars, you'd make it 
- to Alpha Centauri in nine hours
- to Sirius in seventeen hours
- to Altair (Alpha Aquilae) in 34 hours.
- to Vega (Alpha Lyrae) in two days.
- to Arcturus (Alpha Bootis) in three days.
If you decide to settle one week's time of flight away from the next
mass relay, that's just 85 lightyears.
Sounds okay to me.
To pick up one of your figures on possible spheres of colonization: to bridge 2000 lightyears with 12 lightyears/day, you'd need more than five months of non-stop flight time. I doubt that this is acceptable.
And Earth is 2167 flight days away from the Galactic core, by the way.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mister Mida wrote...

Well of course there has to be some sort of relay in dark space. How else would the Reapers get to the Citadel if there isn't one?

It's less that there's another relay and more as to what else it might be. The Citadel is a massive relay, but it also far more than just a transportation device. This was a musing as to what the far-side relay, presumably also the scale of the Citadel, might be.

[Mister Mida]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Well of course there has to be some sort of relay in dark space. How else would the Reapers get to the Citadel if there isn't one?

It's less that there's another relay and more as to what else it might be. The Citadel is a massive relay, but it also far more than just a transportation device. This was a musing as to what the far-side relay, presumably also the scale of the Citadel, might be.

If the 'thing' that connects the Citadel to dark space in order for the Reapers to do their thing is not a relay, Bioware managed to surprise me. But I think we also need to keep in mind that we may never find out or see it for that matter. Maybe there is nothing out there, and the Reapers have some sort of build-in system that connects them to the Citadel.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 04 juin 2010 - 12:38 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

adam_grif wrote...
As a whole, the timeline of MEverse is screwed in the head anyway. The Asari should be a plague on the galaxy, having nearly filled it. They can breed with any species, are attracted to every species, and live upwards of 1000 years. They found the citadel circa 1 C.E., and have been space faring for thousands of years. They should be everywhere by now, but they're confined to a relatively small portion of space. That the humans could come in and make a dent with civilizations that are thousands of years old is hilarious. Total hack writing.

While that might be true, perhaps the Rachni killed both populations, (Salarian, Turian and Asari) quite an bit, and they just really recovered in numbers since then. To be honest, the Asari just might have an surivival mechasism that doesn't allow to be breed like we do. They just don't have the urge.

For humans 20s-40s, we are talking like.... 400-600 years or so for them. I expect that we will be an blight on the galaxy however.

[PaladinUSA]

adam_grif wrote...



As a whole, the timeline of MEverse is screwed in the head anyway. The Asari should be a plague on the galaxy, having nearly filled it. They can breed with any species, are attracted to every species, and live upwards of 1000 years. They found the citadel circa 1 C.E., and have been space faring for thousands of years. They should be everywhere by now, but they're confined to a relatively small portion of space. That the humans could come in and make a dent with civilizations that are thousands of years old is hilarious. Total hack writing.

Hm, have to disagree with you.

1) The Asari can breed with any species, but that only started after they met other species, when breeding with non-Asari became the norm as opposed to 'pureblood' Asari. This doesn't increase the size of the Asari population, it only gives them more options to breed with.

2) They live upwards of 1000 years, but that doesn't mean they breed the entire time. Keep in mind the life stages...Maidan, Matron, Matriarch. AFAIK, they only produce offspring in the Matron stage, so during a period of perhaps 300 years. I don't recall seeing any exact numbers of the average amount of Asari children per Asari Matron. We have seen examples of Asari sisters, and I think Benezia had several children other than Liara. Regardless, it doesn't sound like Asari have a huge number of children during their lifetimes, thus making their long lifespans of little consequence to population growth. The only thing it does impact is that older generations take much longer to pass away...but since each generation only breeds for a limited part of their lifetimes, that isn't a big deal.

3) They were the first to reach the Citadel and were one of the first major civilizations. Ok...that explains why they are one of the largest, most powerful civilizations. It doesn't mean they should have overun the galaxy. Our galaxy is HUGE. Considering setbacks due to wars and other events, it seems very reasonable that a space faring civilization might only control a relatively small part of the galaxy, even after a few thousand years, especially if that civilization is fairly peaceful. Humans are much more aggressive and active than Asari, so it makes sense that we would expand much faster. That is one of the reasons that the Council races are so wary of Humanity...the Alliance has expanded rapdily and upset the balance of power.

But hey, its all blue skinned aliens and giant machine gods...I wouldn't worry about the realism that much...

[Bluko]

adam_grif wrote...

Actually I just checked and in Mass Effect FTL drives are typically 12x the Speed of Light according to the Codex.

ALSO WRONG.

The codex gives us a speed of 12 lightyears / day. This is a speed of precisely 4383x the speed of light. This is a "typical" FTL speed, and top speed is limited by the relative size of the Eezo core and the mass of the ship, so small scout ships like the SR2 with an oversized core can presumably go considerably faster than this.

Err...

So light travels 2.592x10^10 km/day (approximately figuring speed of light is 300,000 km/s), and a lightyear is equal to 9,460,730,472,580.8 km. So light travels .002739 lightyears/day. So ships travel .03287 lightyears/day being 12 times faster. Which is a speed of  3.110x10^11 km/day or 3,600,000 km/s. Given the speed of light is 300,000 km/s isn't that still 12 x the speed of light?

Maybe I'm not figuring this correctly? Never been good at conversions.

Also seeing as how we believe the galaxy is 100,000 lightyears across in diameter this makes it 9.460730x10^14 km yes? So If our ships did travel 4383x the speed of light (1,314,900,000 km/s) that means we could travel the enitre galaxy in 719,501.86 seconds or 8.327 days. That can't be right....

And I'm pretty sure if you need to travel 50 mi in a car going 25 mi/h that it takes 2 hours. So I believe I still know how to do maths.

I dunno I'm going to stop here and build a consensus with Legion.


Edit: Regardless traveling 12 Light-years a day is what I assumed. I believe I said it should only take 22-23 years to travel across the Milky Way which is consistent with in-game explanations.

Modifié par Bluko, 05 juin 2010 - 05:34 .

[Wildecker]

Put simply, a ship travelling twelve lightyears per day will travel 12 (lightyears per day)  x 365.25 (days per year) = 4383 lightyears per year. So, it travels at 4383 the speed of light.
Savvy?

Modifié par Wildecker, 05 juin 2010 - 11:04 .

[adam_grif]

Bluko wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Actually I just checked and in Mass Effect FTL drives are typically 12x the Speed of Light according to the Codex.

ALSO WRONG.

The codex gives us a speed of 12 lightyears / day. This is a speed of precisely 4383x the speed of light. This is a "typical" FTL speed, and top speed is limited by the relative size of the Eezo core and the mass of the ship, so small scout ships like the SR2 with an oversized core can presumably go considerably faster than this.

Err...

So light travels 2.592x10^10 km/day (approximately figuring speed of light is 300,000 km/s), and a lightyear is equal to 9,460,730,472,580.8 km. So light travels .002739 lightyears/day. So ships travel .03287 lightyears/day being 12 times faster. Which is a speed of  3.110x10^11 km/day or 3,600,000 km/s. Given the speed of light is 300,000 km/s isn't that still 12 x the speed of light?

Maybe I'm not figuring this correctly? Never been good at conversions.

Also seeing as how we believe the galaxy is 100,000 lightyears across in diameter this makes it 9.460730x10^14 km yes? So If our ships did travel 4383x the speed of light (1,314,900,000 km/s) that means we could travel the enitre galaxy in 719,501.86 seconds or 8.327 days. That can't be right....

And I'm pretty sure if you need to travel 50 mi in a car going 25 mi/h that it takes 2 hours. So I believe I still know how to do maths.

I dunno I'm going to stop here and build a consensus with Legion.


Edit: Regardless traveling 12 Light-years a day is what I assumed. I believe I said it should only take 22-23 years to travel across the Milky Way which is consistent with in-game explanations.

Let's start at the beginning. How many meters per second do the ships travel? Start at 12 ly/day.

How many meters is 12 ly? How many meters is 1 ly? 1 ly = 9,460,730,472,580,800 meters, ergo 12 ly = 113,528,765,670,969,600 meters (multiply by 12). We now have meters per day.

Next we divide by 24 to convert into meters per hour, then by 60 to turn it into meters per minute, and finally by 60 again to turn it into meters per second. After these operations, we get 1,313,990,343,414 m/s.

The speed of light is exactly 299 792 458 m/s, so we divide the prior number by this number to determin how many multiples of C they are travelling at. This comes out to exactly 4383. 12 ly/day == 4383 C. Quod Erat Demonstrandum says adam_grif.

I have no clue what went wrong in your calculations, but whatever it was, it was huge and threw off everything. I suspect you've failed to convert from km into m when doing calcs with that, but that couldn't have been the only thing wrong with it. In your own calculations, you should havev noticed something went horribly, horribly wrong when you claim that ships travel at .03287 lightyears/day being 12 times faster.

The codex says that it's 12 ly/day, not 0.3287 ly/day. It doesn't say anywhere that it's 12 times the speed of light. I have no idea where you're getting this "12 times the speed of light from". 12 lightyears per day. 12 lightyears per day. 12 lightyears per day.

Finally, your "they could cross the galaxy 8.2 days" figure should have set off alarm bells. This one should have been impossible to screw up, sincec you don't even have to convert the units! The Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 lightyears in diameter, so just divide 100,000 by 12! You get 8333.333.... days. I think you acccidentally calculated the thickness of the milky way, which is 1,000 ly, and got your 8.3 days figure... except you SHOULD have got 83.333... days, not 8.3.

[Bluko]

Bluko wrote...

Err...

So light travels 2.592x10^10 km/day (approximately figuring speed of light is 300,000 km/s), and a lightyear is equal to 9,460,730,472,580.8 km. So light travels .002739 lightyears/day. So ships travel .03287 lightyears/day being 12 times faster. Which is a speed of  3.110x10^11 km/day or 3,600,000 km/s. Given the speed of light is 300,000 km/s isn't that still 12 x the speed of light?

Okay these calculations are right, it's just I was still doing 12x the speed of light here...

Bluko wrote...

Also seeing as how we believe the galaxy is 100,000 lightyears across in diameter this makes it 9.460730x10^14 km yes? So If our ships did travel 4383x the speed of light (1,314,900,000 km/s) that means we could travel the enitre galaxy in 719,501.86 seconds or 8.327 days. That can't be right....

Okay I did make a mistake here. The diameter of the galaxy should be 9.460730x10^17 km (approx). Apparently I forgot the last 3 zeros of 100,000. In which case yes ships do travel at 4383 c since at that speed it takes close to 23 years to travel the diameter of the galaxy.

adam_grif wrote...

Let's start at the beginning. How many meters per second do the ships travel? Start at 12 ly/day.

How many meters is 12 ly? How many meters is 1 ly? 1 ly = 9,460,730,472,580,800 meters, ergo 12 ly = 113,528,765,670,969,600 meters (multiply by 12). We now have meters per day.

Next we divide by 24 to convert into meters per hour, then by 60 to turn it into meters per minute, and finally by 60 again to turn it into meters per second. After these operations, we get 1,313,990,343,414 m/s.

The speed of light is exactly 299 792 458 m/s, so we divide the prior number by this number to determin how many multiples of C they are travelling at. This comes out to exactly 4383. 12 ly/day == 4383 C. Quod Erat Demonstrandum says adam_grif.

I have no clue what went wrong in your calculations, but whatever it was, it was huge and threw off everything. I suspect you've failed to convert from km into m when doing calcs with that, but that couldn't have been the only thing wrong with it. In your own calculations, you should havev noticed something went horribly, horribly wrong when you claim that ships travel at .03287 lightyears/day being 12 times faster.

The codex says that it's 12 ly/day, not 0.3287 ly/day. It doesn't say anywhere that it's 12 times the speed of light. I have no idea where you're getting this "12 times the speed of light from". 12 lightyears per day. 12 lightyears per day. 12 lightyears per day.

Finally, your "they could cross the galaxy 8.2 days" figure should have set off alarm bells. This one should have been impossible to screw up, sincec you don't even have to convert the units! The Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 lightyears in diameter, so just divide 100,000 by 12! You get 8333.333.... days. I think you acccidentally calculated the thickness of the milky way, which is 1,000 ly, and got your 8.3 days figure... except you SHOULD have got 83.333... days, not 8.3.

In retrospect I think I should have just admitted I made a grammatical error instead of attempting to do math late at night. Again apparently I fooled myself insisting that 4383 c was way too fast, even though it's quite obvious 12 ly/day  x 365.25 day equals 4383 ly/year or simply 4383 times the speed of light...

I was figuring that ships traveled 12 ly/day, cause again I said it would take 22-23 (22.8 years specifically) years to travel across the galaxy which is I just goofed saying ships travel 12 times the speed of light

Bluko wrote...

Actually I just checked and in Mass Effect FTL drives are typically 12x
the Speed of Light (Derp!) according to the Codex. This means traveling across
the Galaxy only takes 22 years ideally. So I guess that shoots my theory
out of the water since The Reapers could likely reach the Citadel or
another system in a few months or years.

I go sit in the corner.




(Good news if EDI is the Overlord we'll never be able to correctly compute pi due to me. Now wasn't this thread about something else?)

Modifié par Bluko, 05 juin 2010 - 04:52 .

[ManBearPig91]

Dark Citadel: I MUST HAVE IT!

[RyuGuitarFreak]

I'm in love with this theory. It's the most possible situation for ME3 that I've seen on the forums. Kudos for you Dean.



Friendly Bump.

[cbutz]

My Shep likes explosions...a dark Citadel would make the perfect explosion,,,,

It is an interesting theory and the information would cause Liara to have Morinth type brain hemorrhages. I don't know if Bioware would make the Reapers like that though. TO me it seems like they are being shaped up so that their conquests are just self preservation.

[Ecael]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's a simple idea that I haven't seen thrown around yet.

Mass Relays, the long distance sort, come in pairs: this is old news. So is the fact that the Citadel is a galactic-scale mass relay linking into dark space, one through which the Reapers come and go through the galaxy.

This means, of course, that the there must be an opposite relay in Dark Space. The Citadel's counterpoint.

Despite what I said on the first page, I do agree that it's a great possibility for what may happen in Mass Effect 3.

The question is how to reverse the relay and travel through it into dark space... would that require a human Reaper under the control of a human in order to do so?

Hah, I bet anyone who destroyed the Collector Base is going to be disappointed now!

Kept the Collector Base

-Used human Reaper to travel through the Citadel Relay, into dark space, to finish off the Reaper Homeworld

Destroyed the Collector Base

Modifié par Ecael, 13 juin 2010 - 03:48 .

[SirJonny]

I hear a lot of talk about their being all kinds of art on this so called "Dark Citadel". However in my mind this does not fit with the reapers mindset. I don't think they care in the least about art and the history of the species they conquer, For example the collectors or f'ed up Protheans as Mordin says were culturally stagnate thanks to the reapers "No soul, replaced by tech." I think it is a good idea of some kind of "Dark Citadel" that the reapers use to get back to the Milky Way but I would see it being more like the Collector base with no art or culture of any kind, I also believe that the reapers go through these cycles purely as a self preservation using the mindless husks of the conquered to essentially bring them raw materials for their energy consumption, aka food.

[Ecael]

SirJonny wrote...

I hear a lot of talk about their being all kinds of art on this so called "Dark Citadel". However in my mind this does not fit with the reapers mindset. I don't think they care in the least about art and the history of the species they conquer, For example the collectors or f'ed up Protheans as Mordin says were culturally stagnate thanks to the reapers "No soul, replaced by tech." I think it is a good idea of some kind of "Dark Citadel" that the reapers use to get back to the Milky Way but I would see it being more like the Collector base with no art or culture of any kind, I also believe that the reapers go through these cycles purely as a self preservation using the mindless husks of the conquered to essentially bring them raw materials for their energy consumption, aka food.

They still are a sentient species with free will, however. I'd think they'd have some sort of culture.

Although I can't imagine a bunch of Reaper retirees playing doubles tennis or Reaper golf to pass the time...

[Vaenier]

Wouldnt it just be easier to evacuate the Light Citadel and push it into a sun? Just seems like all these plans people make are so complex and difficult, why waste so much effort for a simple goal of keeping them out.

[Ecael]

Vaenier wrote...

Wouldnt it just be easier to evacuate the Light Citadel and push it into a sun? Just seems like all these plans people make are so complex and difficult, why waste so much effort for a simple goal of keeping them out.

That doesn't prevent them from getting to the galaxy the long way, though.

[atheelogos]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's a simple idea that I haven't seen thrown around yet.

Mass Relays, the long distance sort, come in pairs: this is old news. So is the fact that the Citadel is a galactic-scale mass relay linking into dark space, one through which the Reapers come and go through the galaxy.

This means, of course, that the there must be an opposite relay in Dark Space. The Citadel's counterpoint.

Perhaps it is something purely functional. Something that is only a tool to be used. Ugly, only functional and of no use whatsoever.

I doubt it.

I suspect, besides the possibility for some momentous choice as to which species must die at some point in ME3, that the climax of the game will be to do just what Anderson promised to do in ME1: chase the Reapers back into dark space. Chase them back to where every new Reaper, each new ascended species goes. Take them back to perhaps where the Reapers cart off the technology and resources they strip from the planets of their conquests according to Vigil.

I suspect it, all of it, will come together at the counterpair to the Citadel, this undefined Dark Citadel.

My personal interpretation/suspicion of the Reapers is that they are out to preserve the most worthy parts of the galacy in s cycle meant to keep the galaxy livable (or at least allow new candidate species to grow). That the growth of galactic civilization past a point endangers the galaxy itself, such as the star of Haestrom.

This would be irrelevant, exept in so much that the Dark Citadel might not only serve as a relay but as the library of the Reaper's conquests, the memorial and epitath to what they were besides what is in the Reapers themselves. This might be where some of the stripped technologies and resources, those that aren't destroyed, go. This library might be where every new Reaper, where we might, find out the true history of the universe.

I can almost see it. A counter-station. Magnificent and beautiful in it's own way, not as a white station of life like the Citadel, but a black crypt of memory. Housing more data than has ever existed in this galactic cycle. A suitable last world for the trilogy.





Most of this is just supposition, musing, and whimsy. All I can claim to be sure of is that something is out in dark space. But I just felt like sharing my thoughts.

I like were your headed with this. My own thoughts is that there is a hub cyberbrain out there. Thats where the Reapers keep their minds, their consciousness if you will, and the reaper shell is something they control by remote.

Modifié par atheelogos, 13 juin 2010 - 08:23 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

It's really one of the few logical ideas. I think this (or something very similar) is what will happen in ME3.

[przemichal]

Just tell me: if there is some sort of Dark Citadel, why there is no way to open The Citadel Relay from it? Why using the Citadel from ME1 and ME2?

[NvVanity]

przemichal wrote...

Just tell me: if there is some sort of Dark Citadel, why there is no way to open The Citadel Relay from it? Why using the Citadel from ME1 and ME2?

Maybe there is. Perhaps thats what Saren was opening to at the end of Mass Effect. Until we find a way to make it we can through it without the Reapers coming through opening it would result in instant doom for the galaxy.

I am very in love with this theory. Just think about going there the place would be a data haven for everything to ever happen in history as well as give us insight to the Reapers goals. While it can be thought of as a dark place like the Reapers I bet it will look like a paradise on the inside, minus the horrifying Reaper creations probably walking around it.