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[Master Shiori]

battle hunger wrote...

also about the US/DR dilemna, I think hardened Leli will accept what must be done to keep you, and given how hard the unhardened Leli takes your death, she would most likely cope with it too.

That's hardly a dilemma, since you can simply have Alistair or Loghain do the DR with morrigan or kill the Archdemon.

Leliana is a practical woman and if she had to choose between losing you or having you spend one night with Morrigan, I have no doubt shed' pick the later. After all, she knows you're not doing it to hurt her or because you care about Morrigan.

I only did US once with a character who romanced Leliana, and her sorrow and pain during my funeral were enough to make me regret that choice, especially since I could have easily had Alistair do the deed.

Then again, I never saw much point in doing the US. Especially since there are ways to refuse the DR and still survive.
That ending only makes snese if you're determined to end your Warden's story for good.

[Giggles_Manically]

Well outside of Morrigan, both Zevran and Alistair do as well. Same thing in ME2 the LI took losing shep really bad. GAH Kaidan's email can best be summed up with MAYBE! ME3 had better make staying loyal worth it, or I will be really annoyed.

[Master Shiori]

phaonica wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I dont do the DR since I think it is one of the stupidest risks and far to risky to do.

That's different then the people (and there are people who do this) who say that they will not do it for Leliana's sake. I think if you're only concern is her and for whatever reason Loghain/Alistair can't do it then you should do the ritual. I mean, she takes it really badly.

She takes what really badly?

She takes your death really badly, particularly if she's unhardened.

Does she? That sucks. Particularly if there is little in-game indication beforehand that she would take it so hard.

The epilogue is pretty vague on the matter, but it can be interpreted that she commits suicide just to be with you again.

[Giggles_Manically]

Master Shiori wrote...

battle hunger wrote...

also about the US/DR dilemna, I think hardened Leli will accept what must be done to keep you, and given how hard the unhardened Leli takes your death, she would most likely cope with it too.

That's hardly a dilemma, since you can simply have Alistair or Loghain do the DR with morrigan or kill the Archdemon.

Leliana is a practical woman and if she had to choose between losing you or having you spend one night with Morrigan, I have no doubt shed' pick the later. After all, she knows you're not doing it to hurt her or because you care about Morrigan.

I only did US once with a character who romanced Leliana, and her sorrow and pain during my funeral were enough to make me regret that choice, especially since I could have easily had Alistair do the deed.

Then again, I never saw much point in doing the US. Especially since there are ways to refuse the DR and still survive.
That ending only makes snese if you're determined to end your Warden's story for good.

Yah but are you combfertable with letting others die for you? Only Loghain's line "Please I have done so much wrong, allow me to do one last thing right" was the only thing that stopped my Mage from doing the US.

[Sarah1281]

phaonica wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...



I dont do the DR since I think it is one of the stupidest risks and far to risky to do.

That's different then the people (and there are people who do this) who say that they will not do it for Leliana's sake. I think if you're only concern is her and for whatever reason Loghain/Alistair can't do it then you should do the ritual. I mean, she takes it really badly.

She takes what really badly?

She takes your death really badly, particularly if she's unhardened.

Does she? That sucks. Particularly if there is little in-game indication beforehand that she would take it so hard.

This is what the DA wiki has to say about it:

Leliana, if romanced, will fall apart from grief if The Warden sacrifices themself in the final battle. She will compose what will become a famous ballad of your journey. After one performance, Leliana quietly vanishes. It is said that the maker came to her in the night, and her maid found Leliana smiling, with tears in her eyes, saying that at last she be reunited with her love.

Leliana, if romanced, 'hardened', and The Warden sacrifices him- or herself in the final battle. She remained in the royal court for a time, but after one perfomance, Leliana quietly vanished. Some claimed she returned to a life of adventure, while others said that she returned to Orlais to exact revenge on her enemies. Whichever is true, she never forgot the one she loved.

Leliana, if romanced and broken-up with, will grieve if the Warden makes the Ultimate Sacrifice. She becomes a figure in the courts for a time, writing a grand ballad of the Warden but gives only one performance of it before disappearing.

So if you do plan on doing the US with a romanced Leliana then you really should harden her first or else, well, implied suicide.

[Master Shiori]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

battle hunger wrote...

also about the US/DR dilemna, I think hardened Leli will accept what must be done to keep you, and given how hard the unhardened Leli takes your death, she would most likely cope with it too.

That's hardly a dilemma, since you can simply have Alistair or Loghain do the DR with morrigan or kill the Archdemon.

Leliana is a practical woman and if she had to choose between losing you or having you spend one night with Morrigan, I have no doubt shed' pick the later. After all, she knows you're not doing it to hurt her or because you care about Morrigan.

I only did US once with a character who romanced Leliana, and her sorrow and pain during my funeral were enough to make me regret that choice, especially since I could have easily had Alistair do the deed.

Then again, I never saw much point in doing the US. Especially since there are ways to refuse the DR and still survive.
That ending only makes snese if you're determined to end your Warden's story for good.

Yah but are you combfertable with letting others die for you? Only Loghain's line "Please I have done so much wrong, allow me to do one last thing right" was the only thing that stopped my Mage from doing the US.

Alistair also tells you he wants to do it to avoid being made king (he said this while hardened) and to allow you to live on happily with your lover. Pretty nice, but I feel it's mostly the "avoid being king" part that makes him do it (probably also survivor's guilt over not dying with Duncan at Ostagar).

Modifié par Master Shiori, 04 juillet 2010 - 11:18 .

[phaonica]

Sarah1281 wrote...
So if you do plan on doing the US with a romanced Leliana then you really should harden her first or else, well, implied suicide.

I see.

I've heard some people say that they do the US because they can't bring themselves to cheat on Leliana but if that's their sole reason...I think she'd understand, really. Even if you can't talk about it before the ritual you can tell her about it afterwards and while if you used to romance Morrigan she may get jeaalous the fact is that Morrigan is leaving, probably forever, so iot really isn't a problem. Given hos badly she takes your death I don't think those people are doing her a favor by staying 'true to her'.

If there is any indication beforehand that she would completely fall apart upon your death, then yeah, I can see your point. Unless she'd have a similar reaction if she found out you 'cheated' on her. Then I guess you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I dont do the DR since I think it is one of the stupidest risks and far to risky to do.

I always do it. Mostly to show up the Grey Wardens, "Haha I killed the archdemon and lived suckers". Plus I trust Morrigan, if that thing turns evil she'll be the first one to try and stop it.

Edit: Should say I always make Alistair or Loghain do it, since my Warden's are women  . . .

Modifié par adneate, 04 juillet 2010 - 11:34 .

[Sarah1281]

If there is any indication beforehand that she would completely fall apart upon your death, then yeah, I can see your point. Unless she'd have a similar reaction if she found out you 'cheated' on her. Then I guess you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Even without knowing that, I just don't believe that anyone who really loved you would rather that you die then have sex once with someone else if it were literally the only way to save your life. I mean, sure she won't be happy about it but given the alternative...

[adneate]

phaonica wrote...

If there is any indication beforehand that she would completely fall apart upon your death, then yeah, I can see your point. Unless she'd have a similar reaction if she found out you 'cheated' on her. Then I guess you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

Well even a male warden has a choice you can still convince Alistair or Loghain to do the ritual. Even if Alistair hates your guts, you can manipulate him into doing the ritual and still tell him off at the Denerim gates and kill the archdemon by yourself.

[epoch_]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If there is any indication beforehand that she would completely fall apart upon your death, then yeah, I can see your point. Unless she'd have a similar reaction if she found out you 'cheated' on her. Then I guess you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Even without knowing that, I just don't believe that anyone who really loved you would rather that you die then have sex once with someone else if it were literally the only way to save your life. I mean, sure she won't be happy about it but given the alternative...

This is exactly my feeling as well.

[epoch_]

Hopefully we get an interesting conversation with her about the issue in the future.

[phaonica]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If there is any indication beforehand that she would completely fall apart upon your death, then yeah, I can see your point. Unless she'd have a similar reaction if she found out you 'cheated' on her. Then I guess you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Even without knowing that, I just don't believe that anyone who really loved you would rather that you die then have sex once with someone else if it were literally the only way to save your life. I mean, sure she won't be happy about it but given the alternative...

This is true. I will say that as a female character sending Alistair to do the DR, it didn't feel like Alistair was cheating. Yet playing as a male character *doing* the DR, it did feel like cheating because you don't get to discuss it first. At that moment, it does feel wrong, and some folks will refuse to do it because it's 'wrong'.

[adneate]

epoch_ wrote...

Hopefully we get an interesting conversation with her about the issue in the future.

Or maybe we'll get a really crappy one! She'll be irrationally angry and leave you no matter what so BioWare doesn't have to hire her voice actor for another game and are now free to shove a bunch of new characters down our throats effectively destroying all the ones we loved from Origins!

[phaonica]

adneate wrote...

phaonica wrote...

If there is any indication beforehand that she would completely fall apart upon your death, then yeah, I can see your point. Unless she'd have a similar reaction if she found out you 'cheated' on her. Then I guess you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

Well even a male warden has a choice you can still convince Alistair or Loghain to do the ritual. Even if Alistair hates your guts, you can manipulate him into doing the ritual and still tell him off at the Denerim gates and kill the archdemon by yourself.

Yeah, just have Alistair or Loghain do it.  Unless Alistair is engaged to Anora, and you don't want him cheating on his girl, either.

[adneate]

phaonica wrote...

Yeah, just have Alistair or Loghain do it.  Unless Alistair is engaged to Anora, and you don't want him cheating on his girl, either.

Nobody in Ferelden cares what Alistair wants, hell if he's engaged to Anora you've already shown that you don't really care all that much either so what's the problem with making him "cheat" on the woman he doesn't really like all that much.

[Sarah1281]

There's always the possibility that you fail to convince Loghain/Alistair. I mean, yeah, if you use the friend card on Alistair then he's automatically on board but if you don't and he refuses then you'll have to do it yourself.

[phaonica]

adneate wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Yeah, just have Alistair or Loghain do it.  Unless Alistair is engaged to Anora, and you don't want him cheating on his girl, either.

Nobody in Ferelden cares what Alistair wants, hell if he's engaged to Anora you've already shown that you don't really care all that much either so what's the problem with making him "cheat" on the woman he doesn't really like all that much.

I was just trying to get a feel for what a character who refuses to save himself or Leliana because he can't cheat on her, might be thinking.

[phaonica]

Sarah1281 wrote...

There's always the possibility that you fail to convince Loghain/Alistair. I mean, yeah, if you use the friend card on Alistair then he's automatically on board but if you don't and he refuses then you'll have to do it yourself.

How badly do you have to have treated Alistair to get him to refuse to help you? 

[epoch_]

adneate wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Hopefully we get an interesting conversation with her about the issue in the future.

Or maybe we'll get a really crappy one! She'll be irrationally angry and leave you no matter what so BioWare doesn't have to hire her voice actor for another game and are now free to shove a bunch of new characters down our throats effectively destroying all the ones we loved from Origins!

This sounds oddly familiar...

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont think that even with -100 approval with Alistair you can get him to refuse the DR. As long as you have a high enough coercion. Then again the DR is dumb as hell, and very blind to me so its a non-starter for me. Leliana would get over I think eventually, she would most likely be mad as hell at you but would get over it in the end.

[Sarah1281]

It's not about approval. If you fail at coercion or else don't use any persuade options then he'll turn you down unless you use your love/friendship to convince him. Loghain, I think, is harder to convince without coercion.

[Giggles_Manically]

I still feel terrible to do that to my friend, yeash only Bioware can kick you in the gut so many times.



I dont know why so many people fear death so greatly, to me its just another thing that happens to everyone. I am not so attached to my own skin to do something so risky.

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I still feel terrible to do that to my friend, yeash only Bioware can kick you in the gut so many times.

I dont know why so many people fear death so greatly, to me its just another thing that happens to everyone. I am not so attached to my own skin to do something so risky.

For me it's a matter of surviving against impossible odds (or maybe just lousy ones in the mage origin) to become a Warden at all and then pulling off the impossible with very few people to support you and only one other Warden when even seasoned Wardens like Duncan would have just shrugged and fled to Orlais while Ferelden destroyed itself. After you've come so far it really seems like a shame to just throw it all away like that and just delaying your death sentence by a year instead of overcoming it altogether. And yes, I know technically joining the Wardens is a death sentence buy given it's going to happen thirty years later I'm not sure that's really the same thing.

I hate US endings and reading a story with them in it depresses me.

[Giggles_Manically]

So you would rather unleash something terrible on the world, that could destroy as much as a blight in the worst case then die to stop it?



Im not suicidal or anything, but to me giving my one life to save an entire nation is an easy descion. That's just me most people on the polls in my sig seem to put their own butts over the collective worlds it seems.