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[TuringPoint]

After the DLC I feel more bonded to Leliana...



Also, Marjolaine is gorgeous. She is actually stunning at times.

[SnakeHelah]

Honestly I felt they made a good turn on the cinematics and music in Leliana's song, it was much better than in Origins and awakening which is a good thing. Bioware gets candy for dlc that is awesome.

Now about that patch.....

[Master Shiori]

Zeleen wrote...

Well.. just finished 1st play through.. yeah will do it again.. I didn't get all 6 pieces of the armor.. DARN! don't know where I missed it.

I loved her companions...

and If only looks could kill!

well worth the money & effort.. BRAVO

Most of the pieces can be found in chests in Arl of Denerim's Estate as well as in his dungeon.

One is found on that guy in Denerim Market who betrayed Majorlaine and needs to be killed.

Also, bosses (orange named mobs) tend to drop them as well.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 07 juillet 2010 - 10:02 .

[Myusha]

One was on the man to be silenced, one or two are in the first time you visit the Noble's Estate, one the second time you visit [it's in a room on an armor stand after you kill the weapon master], and one or two are in the Dungeon in chests, and one's on the floor in the Chantry. Hope it helps, and that the pieces arn't randomized.

[Brockololly]

Did anyone find Leliana sort of unlikeable in the early parts of the DLC? I just don't get the whole bard angle I guess- its like hey lets be mischievous pranksters for no apparent reason and kill some people for the hell of it on the side.... what?



And why was Marjolaine even messing around with the Orlesian military papers? Her motivations remained totally in the dark. Just to give them to Raleigh for money or to cause mayhem and another war?



And where were the first couple codex entries? I got every one but the 1st 2-3 I think. Kind of disappointed there wasn't more lore or new information...

[nos_astra]

Brockololly wrote...
Did anyone find Leliana sort of unlikeable in the early parts of the DLC? I just don't get the whole bard angle I guess- its like hey lets be mischievous pranksters for no apparent reason and kill some people for the hell of it on the side.... what?

Sort of unlikeable? Yes. But I think that's working as intended. In DAO we only see Leliana as a sweet, loyal companion. Even hardened Leliana is quite "innocent". She regrets the things she's done and in the DLC we see that there are things to regret. She wanted to impress Marjolaine and that's how she did it. Maybe it's just my overimaginative brain filling in the gaps but for me this glimpse into the past is very interesting.



I noticed my facemorph makes her look too old. I will have to make her look a bit younger.

Modifié par klarabella, 07 juillet 2010 - 03:29 .

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

Did anyone find Leliana sort of unlikeable in the early parts of the DLC? I just don't get the whole bard angle I guess- its like hey lets be mischievous pranksters for no apparent reason and kill some people for the hell of it on the side.... what?

I think that was sort of the point that in the beginning you see her as this care free amoral bard content with her lifestyle the choices she's making. As events start to unravel you see her become fearful and nervous until she winds up lying on the dungeon floor beaten and broken crying all alone. When she's presented with the opprotunity to escape she's angry and scared she doesn't know why this has happened to her, she's lost faith in everything she used to believe in. Until she winds up in the chantry, a sinner looking for something to believe in and filled with nothing but regrets.



The scene in the chantry where she's left alone for the first time very much has the look of other art pieces that dipict "The Sinner in the House of God". At the beginning she did bad things for worse reasons and at the end she's trying to do good things for her own reasons.

Modifié par adneate, 07 juillet 2010 - 03:15 .

[Brockololly]

adneate wrote...
The scene in the chantry where she's left alone for the first time very much has the look of other art pieces that dipict "The Sinner in the House of God". At the beginning she did bad things for worse reasons and at the end she's trying to do good things for her own reasons.

True enough- I just find it odd that the thing that triggers Leliana's sudden moral awakening are a bunch of papers. Never mind the whole murdering people for fun bit- nope, "Oh dear! Treason!" But sure, Marjolaine's betrayal sets her off on her "I'm not like Marjolaine" path.

I posted this beast in the Morrigan thread but I'll post it here too since its probably a more appropriate spot:
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Alright, so I finished the Leliana DLC. Random musings follow-  spoilers ahoy!:
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Value! Of all of the DA DLC’s (outside of Shale)this one is worth the money. It took me about 2 hours exactly to finish everything albeit that’s with me going slowly and methodically to try and get everything (reading codex entries and what not). Definitely worth the $7 if you want more DA.

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Quality! Unlike most of the other DLC’s, this one seemed to actually maintain the production values of Origins. The VO was solid for the most part and it never felt like it was made on the cheap or that it was rushed out the door.

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Stable! I loathe patch 1.03 as does my PC. Yet, no technical problems at all with the DLC.

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Decent challenge! After breezing through Awakening, its nice to have a decent challenge in the combat. 

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Nice shout out to everyone’s most despised rapist of elves, Vaughan- Tug: “That boy will grow into something special.”Hehehe


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Leliana and the Room of Dead Nugs- nice touch,BioWare.

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Ok, 2 Headed Skeleton Baby? Seriously? Whats the deal BioWare? In Awakening you see a 2 headed skeleton Baby thing in the Architect’s little dungeon. All right that makes sense since the Architect is a freak and might collect weird stuff. But why was there another 2 headed baby skeleton inRaleigh’s dungeon?


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Leliana was murder knifed but didn’t bleed out? That bit reminded me of the ending of Gladiator when Maximus gets knifed...


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Personal gripe to BioWare and all RPG developers- If you make it a point where the PC gets stripped of their gear and has to recover it, when the PC gets their gear back, don’t make us have to manually re-equip every item. Its  annoying. Just have it magically appear on the characters how it was before the gear was stolen. Thanks


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BioWare gets a ton of mileage out of those same couple of hanged people. But damn  are the textures nasty on those guys!

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City Elf mother makes a cameo.

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My only gripe with the VO was with Chantry sister Dorothea. The VO itself was fine but they just  reused Marjolaine’s voice actor and Dorothea pretty much sounds exactly  like Marjolaine. Like exactly the same. It makes her initial appearance a tad confusing.

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New Music! I like new music, its definitely a plus but meh. Its your typical stringy bard sort of  music you’d think of really. The new music is fine but nothing too  special. Maybe its just my taste,but for the most part Dragon Age’s  music doesn’t cut it for me. I like Inon Zur’swork but DA’s music just  gets so repetitive and generic. It has its moments but the tracks are too short most of the time so they just end up looping way too much.  Which is a shame because great music can do so much to enhance a game.  Take ME2- the music in the suicide mission adds so much tension and  awesomeness to that mission. Mass Effect’s music feels unique and awesome- the new music in Overlord is fantastic.  DA and the Leliana DLC? Not so much.

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The Plot and Prequelitis- I knew going in that this was going to be a retelling of Leliana’s story
of her falling out with Marjolaine. Changes are definitely made to it  compared to Origins' version. Like it not taking place in Orlais. Meh-  if you just roll with the fact that the whole thing is supposed to be a  story being told by Leliana, it works well enough. Obviously the devs  weren't going to introduce Orlais in a litle DLC. It throws some twists  in with some of the new characters but since it’s a story we already  know the ending to, there isn’t much tension at the end. And the whole thing with the Orlesian military documents was kind of meh. Nothing we didn’t really already know more or less.

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Interesting lore tidbit with Tug’s weapon- when you recover Tug’s weapon in the dungeon and examine it, it says there is an inscription on it uncovered after the handle was taken off which reads “ The Stone Lives Beneath Orlais.” Hmmm… maybe a forgotten Dwarven city under Orlais?

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The character intros!? Whaaaaaat!? BioWare was channeling their Quentin Tarantino I think. These got a chuckle out of me- hey  it’s a new charact- BAAAAM! BLOODY SCREEN! I was half expecting the Unreal Tournament announcer voice to announce the character names in  deep brooding voice. These little moments reminded me of “Inglorious Basterds” when they introduce Hugo Stiglitz witha  freeze frame, huge guitar riff and plaster his name on the screen. I’m  all for stylized stuff but it seemed kind of goofy in the DLC.

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Lore? Meh, you’ve got a decent number of codex entries to find but there  isn’t anything too revealing in them. I was expecting some more  substantial stuff or new insights but nothing much there. I suppose some characters and lore tidbits might make more sense down the road, but I was hoping for MOAR!, what can I say...

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Same old, same old- Same old Denerim market place, same old levels. Nothing new or exciting level wise. Its all places you’ve been before.

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Leliana and lighting- I don’t care for the lighting in DA. Honestly I think its often terrible.  Damn, Leliana looks great some times in full light, but like with so many other characters, when the lighting changes and they try to have shadowing on the faces- look out! They look  hideous. Blobbyshadows and clunky lighting do not make characters look good in DA.

For example:

What is wrong with Leliana's face there ! GAH! Unflattering to say the least.  I really hope they work on this for DA2…

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I am so sick of the armor in DA. Its so frustrating to read the  description of a given armor and read how unique and amazing it is, only to equip it on your character and have it look like everyother armor  out there. The Battledress of the Provocateur is the last straw. I  really don’t care about the loot necessarily, but come on BioWare. This  thing looks exactly like every other light armor in the game except its  slightly recolored. If I wanted reconfigured stats I could easily  download a mod. Again, I really hope they diversify things with the  armor for DA2….

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Overall, if I fixed a numerical score to the DLC, I’d give it an 8/10. Its solid and has the same quality and craftsmanship you find in Origins. After  the resoundingly “meh” Awakening, the  joke Feastday DLC and “WTF?”  Darkspawn Chronicles, this DLC gives me hope that the DA team hasn’t  completely gone insane. It’s a good solid DLC worth your $7 if you’re looking for new DA content. I just hope new DLC actually moves the story forward and doesn't just keep treading on old ground.

Modifié par Brockololly, 07 juillet 2010 - 03:36 .

[Sarah1281]

Interesting

lore tidbit with Tug’s weapon- when you recover Tug’s weapon in the dungeon and examine it, it says there is an inscription on it uncovered after the handle was taken off which reads “ The Stone Lives Beneath Orlais.” Hmmm… maybe a forgotten Dwarven city under Orlais?

Well, the DA Wiki says that Kal-Sharok is located in the Hunterhorn mountains between Orlais and the Anderfels.

[tmp7704]

Brockololly wrote...

True enough- I just find it odd that the thing that triggers Leliana's sudden moral awakening are a bunch of papers. Never mind the whole murdering people for fun bit- nope, "Oh dear! Treason!" But sure, Marjolaine's betrayal sets her off on her "I'm not like Marjolaine" path.

She explains the difference herself -- as long as it's game between the nobles, the bards are free to bounce between houses and never mind who they screw in the process, for them it's thrill and fun (or at least was for Leliana)  But treason is taken seriously, and means capital punishment if caught. It's this real prospect of death that's so sobering to her.

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

True enough- I just find it odd that the thing that triggers Leliana's sudden moral awakening are a bunch of papers. Never mind the whole murdering people for fun bit- nope, "Oh dear! Treason!" But sure, Marjolaine's betrayal sets her off on her "I'm not like Marjolaine" path.

Well in the beginning she's trying to be Marjolaine, it takes the betrayal of her one time idol to make her seriously look at what she's been doing with her life. The treason aspect only serves as a catalyst, spuring Marjolaine to betray Leliana.

As for your review I agree with pretty much everything you said, particularily the lighting compaints. Listen BioWare the DAO lighting system is crap you know and I know it, just try to use neutral colours for it in future DLC. It would take an engine update to fix but you can at least make it not violently assault my eyes and make your own characters look like freaks.

[Brockololly]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Interesting
lore tidbit with Tug’s weapon- when you recover Tug’s weapon in the dungeon and examine it, it says there is an inscription on it uncovered after the handle was taken off which reads “ The Stone Lives Beneath Orlais.” Hmmm… maybe a forgotten Dwarven city under Orlais?

Well, the DA Wiki says that Kal-Sharok is located in the Hunterhorn mountains between Orlais and the Anderfels.

Ah yes- forgot about that. Yeah, Kal-Sharok seems kind of like northern Orlais or southern Anderfels to me. I was thinking maybe there is some other forgotten dwarven city under the main chunk of Orlais, like Val Royeaux type area.

Did we ever learn where Tug was actually from? He had the commoner tatoos but was he from Orzammar?

[Gilsa]

Brockololly wrote...

Did we ever learn where Tug was actually from? He had the commoner tatoos but was he from Orzammar?

Commoners are defined by the "S" tattoo right underneath their right eye, regardless of the face paintings they may have. Tug does not have that on his face. Also the tattoo design that he has is only available to the dwarf noble in the character creator. The one in the character creator is slightly different, but the designs are similiar. The Legion of the Dead are filled with nobles who have lost their honor in some way (killed someone, in great debt, etc) and wish to spare their family the humiliation -- it's possible Tug could have just left for the surface instead. Just a random theory. He's definitely not casteless though.

Modifié par Gilsa, 07 juillet 2010 - 04:22 .

[errant_knight]

klarabella wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Did anyone find Leliana sort of unlikeable in the early parts of the DLC? I just don't get the whole bard angle I guess- its like hey lets be mischievous pranksters for no apparent reason and kill some people for the hell of it on the side.... what?

Sort of unlikeable? Yes. But I think that's working as intended. In DAO we only see Leliana as a sweet, loyal companion. Even hardened Leliana is quite "innocent". She regrets the things she's done and in the DLC we see that there are things to regret. She wanted to impress Marjolaine and that's how she did it. Maybe it's just my overimaginative brain filling in the gaps but for me this glimpse into the past is very interesting.



I noticed my facemorph makes her look too old. I will have to make her look a bit younger.

What? You think she's sixteen?
Anyway, yes, I found her very unlikable at the beginning, but I think that's part of the story of how Leliana goes from being a disciple of Marjolaine to being one of Andraste. And we do have some control of exactly how unlikable she is. I did like her better as the story went on, and I could encourage the change, though. And I will never, ever harden Leiliana....

[Sarah1281]

I don't think that playing it will make me have a problem hardening Leliana because I don't see it as you telling Leliana she's just like Marjolaine. Yes, she freaks out and wonders if she is but you can either be all 'oh, no, you're a super-nice good person, Leliana' or 'you need to accept your past.' You might not use the words 'you can be honest about yourself without being Marjolaine Jr.' but the message seemed there.

[astrobot702]

I LOVE Leliana!!!! I remember when I started playing the game I would to her stories throughout the game over and over again. I think it goes back to being a kid and being told stories at bedtime...LOL I am excited she was picked and the first recurring character to have DLC content. Leiana's Song Score was composed in the spirit of Leliana and of course Orlais. On my wishlist list I want a spin off game in which are the reluctant student (pick your origin...) and Leliana is your Mentor and meet up with characters throughout the game (Hildegard, Dorothea, Silas...etc) and see some old faces (Sketch, Dog, Nathaniel...) as tensions between Ferelden and Orlais grow. A different threat from the east is coming to Thedas. This time around it's time it's the bards that will still command the game and Wardens mearly play (Have a new warden character .. sure).But really I am just excited to have such awesome DLC that I can play over and over again...LAWL

[adneate]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't think that playing it will make me have a problem hardening Leliana because I don't see it as you telling Leliana she's just like Marjolaine. Yes, she freaks out and wonders if she is but you can either be all 'oh, no, you're a super-nice good person, Leliana' or 'you need to accept your past.' You might not use the words 'you can be honest about yourself without being Marjolaine Jr.' but the message seemed there.

Indeed I always felt bad not hardening her since it felt like she was lying to herself about what she really wanted in life, after the DLC I'm split 50/50.

[SnakeHelah]

truly, I changed my mind after the dlc about to harden her or not to, she just seemed so much in pain in her old life, and I didn't really want to return that. I don't know now, could say I always didn't like to harden her.

[Master Shiori]

I actually loved the beginning. It really gave me the insight into what it means to be a bard and showed how much fun and excitement Leliana had while doing it.

According to her banter with Zevran in Origins, The only part of being a bard that Leliana didn't enjoy was killing people. Thievery, lying, seduction, framing her target; all of that she could handle and found it to be quite fun.

The way I see it, Majorlaine's betrayal showed her the ugly side of being a bard, and this is what made her run away to the Chantry. But deep down I think she missed the excitement of that life and, if given the opportunity to come back to it but avoid the parts she found repulsive, she would be happy do take up the proffesion once again.
She is a person who loves adventures and excitement, not a quiet life in some temple.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 07 juillet 2010 - 06:52 .

[errant_knight]

Master Shiori wrote...

I actually loved the beginning. It really gave me the insight into what it means to be a bard and showed how much fun and excitement Leliana had while doing it.

According to her banter with Zevran in Origins, The only part of being a bard that Leliana didn't enjoy was killing people. Thievery, lying, seduction, framing her target; all of that she could handle and found it to be quite fun.

The way I see it, Majorlaine's betrayal showed her the ugly side of being a bard, and this is what made her run away to the Chantry. But deep down I think she missed the excitement of that life and, if given the opportunity to come back to it but avoid the parts she found repulsive, she would be happy do take up the proffesion once again.
She is a person who loves adventures and excitement, not a quiet life in some temple.

I didn't say I didn't like that part, I said I didn't like Leliana when she was that person. That section was very important. And...the game being what it is, you can make her the person you describe, or you can not do so. Neither is wrong, and both are valid options.

Modifié par errant_knight, 07 juillet 2010 - 07:12 .

[Master Shiori]

errant_knight wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

I actually loved the beginning. It really gave me the insight into what it means to be a bard and showed how much fun and excitement Leliana had while doing it.

According to her banter with Zevran in Origins, The only part of being a bard that Leliana didn't enjoy was killing people. Thievery, lying, seduction, framing her target; all of that she could handle and found it to be quite fun.

The way I see it, Majorlaine's betrayal showed her the ugly side of being a bard, and this is what made her run away to the Chantry. But deep down I think she missed the excitement of that life and, if given the opportunity to come back to it but avoid the parts she found repulsive, she would be happy do take up the proffesion once again.
She is a person who loves adventures and excitement, not a quiet life in some temple.

I didn't say I didn't like that part, I said I didn't like Leliana when she was that person. That section was very important. And...the game being what it is, you can make her the person you describe, or you can not do so. Neither is wrong, and both are valid options.

Err, I never said I was reffering to what you said previously.

And yes, you can do whatever feels best to you. I was simply stating my impressions and what I like to do.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 07 juillet 2010 - 07:23 .

[Zeleen]

After seeing the DLC I will answer a previous question...  Leli's reaction to the DR...
I don't think it will affect her one way or the other hardened or not.  If she is in love with the male Warden she would sooth him from having to brave the ordeal...  any other warden she would understand some of the necessary "evils" one does to survive.  Consequences if any can be handled at a later date and she will "stand by her man" regardless

Modifié par Zeleen, 07 juillet 2010 - 08:10 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Zeleen wrote...

After seeing the DLC I will answer a previous question...  Leli's reaction to the DR...
I don't think it will affect her one way or the other hardened or not.  If she is in love with the male Warden she would sooth him from having to brave the ordeal...  any other warden she would understand some of the necessary "evils" one does to survive.  Consequences if any can be handled at a later date and she will "stand by her man" regardless

I'm almost scared to ask what Leliana's rendition of that song would sound like...

[Master Shiori]

Zeleen wrote...

After seeing the DLC I will answer a previous question...  Leli's reaction to the DR...
I don't think it will affect her one way or the other hardened or not.  If she is in love with the male Warden she would sooth him from having to brave the ordeal...  any other warden she would understand some of the necessary "evils" one does to survive.  Consequences if any can be handled at a later date and she will "stand by her man" regardless

I agree.

And having seen what she went through I honestly couldn't let her world be shattered again by letting my Warden die.

After all the pain and sorrow in Leliana's Song, I truly want to give her something to look forward to, that will bring back love and happines in her life.

And while I know Morrigan has her own reasons for doing the DR, I believe she doesn't want to see her only friend die either.