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[JamieCOTC]

I haven't been to the DA forums in quite a while. Didn't know there was a thread devoted to my favorite bard. Cool!

[adneate]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I haven't been to the DA forums in quite a while. Didn't know there was a thread devoted to my favorite bard. Cool!

We haven't been around for as long as some of the others and it's not +2000 pages but it is about Leliana.

[JamieCOTC]

adneate wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

I haven't been to the DA forums in quite a while. Didn't know there was a thread devoted to my favorite bard. Cool!

We haven't been around for as long as some of the others and it's not +2000 pages but it is about Leliana.

That's all that counts. 

[RogueWriter3201]

Greetings Leli-a-holics. I know there are a myriad of topics bouncing around the thread right now, but while going through yet another DAO playthrough yesterday I had a realization that I hope some of you might be able to shed some light on. Right, so, we all know about Morrigan's famous request near the close of the game; put a bun in her oven and "Whoo Hoo," you get to live. Now, for those Romancing Morrigan it's an easy choice, and in past games when I have gone that route it was a simple matter.

However, having played the game so many times now, I've long since settled on my own *canon* LI, namely our Bardic Princess. I've always played the Champion character, the dashing Hero, and so on, and it just seems to me like Leli makes the most sense for that kind of PC; also, I just plain *like* her far more than Morrigan. Come on, who hasn't heard the, "My Fruit?" conversation and not fallen instantly In Love with her? Anyway, back to the point. So, Morrigan comes along and makes her offer. Afterward you have three choices.

A) Accept her offer and do the deed yourself.

Ask Alistair or Loghain to do it.

C) Ask the Dog...kidding.

*Real* C) Decline altogether and get the depressing U-S ending.  

I've always gone with option B. However...of recent, I've begun to think about how that would *really* go down. Does it seem right to ask, in my case, Alistair, my best friend, to sleep with a woman he not only reviles but is more than a little afraid off to ensure that *I* get to live to be with the woman I love for as long as possible?

Considering all the burdens the Warden, my Warden, has had to endure thus far would it not make more sense to take one for the team and sleep with Morrigan myself? And, so, we come to the crux of it. For those who have made that choice, to bite the proverbial bullet and plant a seed in Morrigan, does this choice become known to Leliana? If so, what's her reaction? Does she understand? Does she still go off on adventures with you in the epilogue? Just curious if anyone had made this choice and what the consequences are. Thanks in advance.

[Sarah1281]

Leliana never mentions it so it's possible you've already had that conversation and she's fine with it or you haven't told her yet. Since she commits suicide if unhardened when she's your LI and you US, don't turn down the ritual thinking you're doing her any favors.

[JamieCOTC]

glenboy24 wrote...

Greetings Leli-a-holics. I know there are a myriad of topics bouncing around the thread right now, but while going through yet another DAO playthrough yesterday I had a realization that I hope some of you might be able to shed some light on. Right, so, we all know about Morrigan's famous request near the close of the game; put a bun in her oven and "Whoo Hoo," you get to live. Now, for those Romancing Morrigan it's an easy choice, and in past games when I have gone that route it was a simple matter.

However, having played the game so many times now, I've long since settled on my own *canon* LI, namely our Bardic Princess. I've always played the Champion character, the dashing Hero, and so on, and it just seems to me like Leli makes the most sense for that kind of PC; also, I just plain *like* her far more than Morrigan. Come on, who hasn't heard the, "My Fruit?" conversation and not fallen instantly In Love with her? Anyway, back to the point. So, Morrigan comes along and makes her offer. Afterward you have three choices.

A) Accept her offer and do the deed yourself.

Ask Alistair or Loghain to do it.

C) Ask the Dog...kidding.

*Real* C) Decline altogether and get the depressing U-S ending.  

I've always gone with option B. However...of recent, I've begun to think about how that would *really* go down. Does it seem right to ask, in my case, Alistair, my best friend, to sleep with a woman he not only reviles but is more than a little afraid off to ensure that *I* get to live to be with the woman I love for as long as possible?

Considering all the burdens the Warden, my Warden, has had to endure thus far would it not make more sense to take one for the team and sleep with Morrigan myself? And, so, we come to the crux of it. For those who have made that choice, to bite the proverbial bullet and plant a seed in Morrigan, does this choice become known to Leliana? If so, what's her reaction? Does she understand? Does she still go off on adventures with you in the epilogue? Just curious if anyone had made this choice and what the consequences are. Thanks in advance.

I've never personally done that, but I remember this coming up on the forums early after DA:O was released. As far as I know, Leliana never mentions it. 

[epoch_]

If she does know about it, she doesn't say anything. It has no effect on any of your romances, as far as I know. I "bite the bullet" myself in my canon game because I also make Alistair king, and if I made him do it, not only would morrigan have a god baby, but the baby would also technically be heir to the throne.



And that's not good any way you slice it.

[adneate]

glenboy24 wrote...

Considering all the burdens the Warden, my Warden, has had to endure thus far would it not make more sense to take one for the team and sleep with Morrigan myself?

You could look at it like that on the other hand Alistair has done jack the whole time and point blank refused to take the position of leader dispite it being his responsibility since he is the most senior surviving member of the order. Maybe him doing the DR so you don't have to explain it to Leliana is him paying you back for all the BS you had to put up with, not too much to ask after all you've done is it?

[RogueWriter3201]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Leliana never mentions it so it's possible you've already had that conversation and she's fine with it or you haven't told her yet. Since she commits suicide if unhardened when she's your LI and you US, don't turn down the ritual thinking you're doing her any favors.

Thanks to those who have given me some insight thus far. Had to comment on this though. When does she off herself? I did the US in my very first game, thinking I was being the Ultimate Noble Hero by not, in essence, planting the Anti-Christ in Morrigan, and I recall in the Epilogue it mentions Leliana pinning for her lost love, creating a Song so moving she eventually recieves another vision from the Maker that if she travels far to some unknown place she would be reuinited with the Warden. How does that translate to suicide?

Modifié par glenboy24, 24 juillet 2010 - 12:27 .

[Sarah1281]

epoch_ wrote...

If she does know about it, she doesn't say anything. It has no effect on any of your romances, as far as I know. I "bite the bullet" myself in my canon game because I also make Alistair king, and if I made him do it, not only would morrigan have a god baby, but the baby would also technically be heir to the throne.

And that's not good any way you slice it.

Alistair was not an heir because he was unacknowledged and so is his child. Morrigan's child is likely to be a mage and thus not an heir. I really think on the succession front we're safe. Of course, there are other risks...

[adneate]

glenboy24 wrote...

Thanks to those who have given me some insight thus far. Had to comment on this though. When does she off herself? I did the US in my very first game, thinking I was being the Ultimate Noble Hero by not, in essence, planting the Anti-Christ in Morrigan, and I recall in the Epilogue it mentions Leliana pinning for her lost love, greating a Song so moving she eventually recieves another vision from the Maker that if she travels far to some unknown place she would be reuinited with the Warden. How does that translate to suicide?

Well think about it how else will she be reunited with a dead man?

Edit: Also Leliana is both an Orphan and has severe betrayal issues, if the first person she's loved in years dies and she's left all alone once again she's not going to be able to handle it.

Modifié par adneate, 24 juillet 2010 - 12:28 .

[Sarah1281]

glenboy24 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Leliana never mentions it so it's possible you've already had that conversation and she's fine with it or you haven't told her yet. Since she commits suicide if unhardened when she's your LI and you US, don't turn down the ritual thinking you're doing her any favors.

Thanks to those who have given me some insight thus far. Had to comment on this though. When does she off herself? I did the US in my very first game, thinking I was being the Ultimate Noble Hero by not, in essence, planting the Anti-Christ in Morrigan, and I recall in the Epilogue it mentions Leliana pinning for her lost love, greating a Song so moving she eventually recieves another vision from the Maker that if she travels far to some unknown place she would be reuinited with the Warden. How does that translate to suicide?

It doesn't say she 'travels far away.' She says she had a vision from the Maker about how to be with her dead lover again. It does not outright say 'and then Leliana hung herself' but it's certainly hinted at.

[JamieCOTC]

Sarah1281 wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Leliana never mentions it so it's possible you've already had that conversation and she's fine with it or you haven't told her yet. Since she commits suicide if unhardened when she's your LI and you US, don't turn down the ritual thinking you're doing her any favors.

Thanks to those who have given me some insight thus far. Had to comment on this though. When does she off herself? I did the US in my very first game, thinking I was being the Ultimate Noble Hero by not, in essence, planting the Anti-Christ in Morrigan, and I recall in the Epilogue it mentions Leliana pinning for her lost love, greating a Song so moving she eventually recieves another vision from the Maker that if she travels far to some unknown place she would be reuinited with the Warden. How does that translate to suicide?

It doesn't say she 'travels far away.' She says she had a vision from the Maker about how to be with her dead lover again. It does not outright say 'and then Leliana hung herself' but it's certainly hinted at.

Yeah, I got that idea too.  What a punch in the gut. 

[RogueWriter3201]

Sarah1281 wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

*snip* 

Thanks to those who have given me some insight thus far. Had to comment on this though. When does she off herself? I did the US in my very first game, thinking I was being the Ultimate Noble Hero by not, in essence, planting the Anti-Christ in Morrigan, and I recall in the Epilogue it mentions Leliana pinning for her lost love, greating a Song so moving she eventually recieves another vision from the Maker that if she travels far to some unknown place she would be reuinited with the Warden. How does that translate to suicide?

It doesn't say she 'travels far away.' She says she had a vision from the Maker about how to be with her dead lover again. It does not outright say 'and then Leliana hung herself' but it's certainly hinted at.

Wow...well, regardless, I don't recall it all in detail. Still, I just can't see her doing that. To me, Leliana would *know* that the Warden would want her to Live until she died, unlike Wynne, warm in a bed with friends and family around her. Her doing the 'Juliet' thing and offing herself just doesn't seem like her. Even with her emotionaly tragic past, her time with the Warden and the love he/she showed her would have mended most of those wounds, no? Anyway, let's move on to happier topics. Leli + Death = "No Es Bueno,"

[JamieCOTC]

I like to pretend to break up w/ her just to get the "Don't give that! Don't you dare!" line.  Funny and cute. 
Corinne Kempa did a fantastic job w/ Leli. 

[Sarah1281]

glenboy24 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

*snip* 

Thanks to those who have given me some insight thus far. Had to comment on this though. When does she off herself? I did the US in my very first game, thinking I was being the Ultimate Noble Hero by not, in essence, planting the Anti-Christ in Morrigan, and I recall in the Epilogue it mentions Leliana pinning for her lost love, greating a Song so moving she eventually recieves another vision from the Maker that if she travels far to some unknown place she would be reuinited with the Warden. How does that translate to suicide?

It doesn't say she 'travels far away.' She says she had a vision from the Maker about how to be with her dead lover again. It does not outright say 'and then Leliana hung herself' but it's certainly hinted at.

Wow...well, regardless, I don't recall it all in detail. Still, I just can't see her doing that. To me, Leliana would *know* that the Warden would want her to Live until she died, unlike Wynne, warm in a bed with friends and family around her. Her doing the 'Juliet' thing and offing herself just doesn't seem like her. Even with her emotionaly tragic past, her time with the Warden and the love he/she showed her would have mended most of those wounds, no? Anyway, let's move on to happier topics. Leli + Death = "No Es Bueno,"

This is why you harden her. She still takes it badly but she doesn't kill herself.

And given that you're the first person she's trusted and even loved since Marjolaine destroyed her, is it really that surprising that if she isn't hardened she falls apart so utterl? 

[JamieCOTC]

Sarah1281 wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

*snip* 

Thanks to those who have given me some insight thus far. Had to comment on this though. When does she off herself? I did the US in my very first game, thinking I was being the Ultimate Noble Hero by not, in essence, planting the Anti-Christ in Morrigan, and I recall in the Epilogue it mentions Leliana pinning for her lost love, greating a Song so moving she eventually recieves another vision from the Maker that if she travels far to some unknown place she would be reuinited with the Warden. How does that translate to suicide?

It doesn't say she 'travels far away.' She says she had a vision from the Maker about how to be with her dead lover again. It does not outright say 'and then Leliana hung herself' but it's certainly hinted at.

Wow...well, regardless, I don't recall it all in detail. Still, I just can't see her doing that. To me, Leliana would *know* that the Warden would want her to Live until she died, unlike Wynne, warm in a bed with friends and family around her. Her doing the 'Juliet' thing and offing herself just doesn't seem like her. Even with her emotionaly tragic past, her time with the Warden and the love he/she showed her would have mended most of those wounds, no? Anyway, let's move on to happier topics. Leli + Death = "No Es Bueno,"

This is why you harden her. She still takes it badly but she doesn't kill herself.

And given that you're the first person she's trusted and even loved since Marjolaine destroyed her, is it really that surprising that if she isn't hardened she falls apart so utterl? 

Y'know.  I have never hardened her. 

[RogueWriter3201]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I like to pretend to break up w/ her just to get the "Don't give that! Don't you dare!" line.  Funny and cute. 
Corinne Kempa did a fantastic job w/ Leli. 

I've never even contemplated breaking up with her. What does she say in this conversation you mentioned?

[adneate]

glenboy24 wrote...

Even with her emotionaly tragic past, her time with the Warden and the love he/she showed her would have mended most of those wounds, no? 

Doubt it. You never get "mended" when your mother dies, you fall for a ruthless assassin many years your senior who betrays you in the end and leaves you to be brutally raped and tortured for days in a dungeon awaiting execution. Only to escape flee to a small town living as a lay sister in a monastary where you have no friends and most people look down at you with contempt. Then the one person who does treat you with respect and show genuine love dies and you're left all alone in the world again, if unhardened she can't walk down that road again period. Suicide might not be the most rational option but nobody ever said people make the best decisions when they're suffering from severe depression.

[Sarah1281]

I know some people don't like hardening her (especially after Leliana's Song although I strongly disagree that hardening her is telling her Marjolaine is right about her) but if you want to US, plan on romancing Leliana, and don't want her to kill herself you kind of need to.

[Giggles_Manically]

My Human Noble Thomas, who romanced her did the US the first time.



I felt terrible doing it, kissing her goodbye knowing I would never see her again, going into hell with Alistair, Shale, and Wynne, then making my friend see me die to save him. The funeral was worse seeing Fegrus and Alistair saddened, but then seeing Leliana broken down in the end when Alistair said "and some of us loved him" made me sick. Topped off by learning that she most likely killed herself to be with him, then realizing that my soul was gone so even in the afterlife I wasent there was horrible.



That's pretty much why I always recruit Loghain and let him redeem himself, Alistair can go all Bieber baby for all I care, I dont want that ending again. I hated Morrigan, and Alistair at the end of that run, but by the end of the epilouge I hated myself a good deal too.

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

That's pretty much why I always recruit Loghain and let him redeem himself, Alistair can go all Bieber baby for all I care, I dont want that ending again. I hated Morrigan, and Alistair at the end of that run, but by the end of the epilouge I hated myself a good deal too.

Morrigan told you to think about Leliana but no you had be Mr. Big-Goddamn-Hero instead, and you killed that little red haired Bard because of it. Morrigan Disappoves -100 and Leliana Disapproves -200.

Modifié par adneate, 24 juillet 2010 - 01:28 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Yah well it was my very first run in DA, I didnt think that she would commit suicide, points off on me for derpness I guess.

I dont do the DR since I despise Morrigans whole "Give me what I want or I will leave a nation to burn", dont get me wrong until the end I liked her, but after the whole DR scene not so much. Also Alistair revenging Duncan on Loghain, and forcing me into picking him also cheesed me off as well. sigh First Run nut ups.



Sadly duty to a nation, or a cause that defends people supercedes my own concerns. If I have to die to give my country a chance I do it. Sucks like hell, but I am not a hero or brave, just practical if my life tips the scales then I do it. Thats just me I have about 4 other charachters who arent who kept Leliana happy.

[JamieCOTC]

glenboy24 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

I like to pretend to break up w/ her just to get the "Don't give that! Don't you dare!" line.  Funny and cute. 
Corinne Kempa did a fantastic job w/ Leli. 

I've never even contemplated breaking up with her. What does she say in this conversation you mentioned?

Tell her you want to talk about your reltionship and that you don't think it will work out.  Whan she asks why, giver her the line, "It's not you, it's me."  That's whan she goes into the hissy fit.  You can go into several options from there, all the way from insulting "Okay, it's really you" to  dutiful, "I'm a Warden and that comes first" to fearful "I'm afraid of losing you." If you choose the last she will talk you out of breaking it off and you will not lose any influence points w/ her. 

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

My first run was very similar to yours Giggles. Though I didn't want to be the Hero, but I wasn't gonna do the DR she almost convinced me with the do it for Leliana line, so I went and hit up Alistair to see what he thought and he said hell no, so there went that plan. I told her off basically because I was quite pissed at the moment was my first run through, and wasn't ready for this a-bomb Gaider and co through on me. My mindset when Morrigan said "lay with me or I leave you to die" was like okay, FIRST I get you're bat**** crazy mother's book from the tower THEN when you find out she steals your body you ask me to go SLAY her and get the better book. I do all this for FREE no charge. I come back with the book you squee and thank me. Then you pull this crap? GTFO my room. I was pretty heated good work BioWare you really engaged my emotions with that little stunt.



I left Leliana at the gates so she wouldn't see me die if Riorden didn't come through which I was pretty sure he wasn't going to. I got the whole "please come home my love" line, and I felt like crap after hearing that. I almost let Alistair do it, but I was thinking Anora would go bat**** crazy like her father and despise Wardens because they killed her father and took her throne, so I was like even if I do live Anora is probably going to make mine and every warden's life hell, and I'm back to where I started. Had my funeral felt like poo during it all then the Leliana slide made me feel real bad.



I have done six runs since then working on my eighth total. Only one other US ending since then was my Dalish guy since I felt like it was the Dalish thing to do.