9727 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont think she would.

She values the PC as a friend if you went down that path, and if you were the King-Consort, than she would stay away I am pretty sure.



I think once the blight has passed, really unless Arcturus outright expressed interest.

[Zjarcal]

Hardened Leliana... perhaps. I'm not sure, I mean, she's okay with being the warden's mistress, so Anora really isn't an issue. But Arcturus' relationship with Morrigan was one based on love, not politics.



The question is, is Leliana under the impression that Arcturus' relationship with Morrigan is done forever? If that were the case, perhaps I could see her making a subtle move. But if she's aware that Arcturus still loves Morrigan, I don't think she would.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Almighy Ali. Yea, I don't think she would do it overtly. I would think she knows Arcturus well by that point to know that he would probably be irritated by it. But I think it would be subtle.

@ Giggles. Anora is not an issue, Leliana hardened doesn't mind being your mistress.

@ Zjarcal. Well here is the thing. Arcturus likes to lightly flirt. Not too much, but that's how he got ninja romanced by Leliana. He might get carried away and yes, he might, unconsciously, throw hints here and there, even if he doesn't mean it that way. And, he doesn't like to show his feelings, so Leliana would not know that he is still attached to Morrigan unless she got closer. At first glance, it might appear as though he got over it. So in taht context, I can see her not fully understanding how much Arcturus still loves Morrigan, so I think she would try.

Ok, let's alter the question a bit. What about physical involvement and no romantics involved? Hardened Leliana afterall doesn't mind threesomes and foursomes, with friends. So, would she try to get physically involved with him or no? I mean, she was in a deep roads expedition before and I don't think she did anything there, so she might have lots of...unspent energy and craving for this. Arcturus would be tempted, but he wouldn't do it at all. If she is indeed tempted, would she try to get only physical? Subtly of course, I don't think she would explicitly try to seduce him, that would ****** him off.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:20 .

[wickedgoodreed]

Hmm...My take is regardless of her hardened status, Leliana is looking for love and a relationship. We also know that a difference in her romance between male and female wardens is that she's willing to actively pursue female wardens, but doesn't pursue male wardens romantically unless they make the first move. So, I would say that if he made it clear that he only wanted to be friends, she probably would just move on elsewhere and wouldn't pursue him. I don't think she'd have any difficulty finding someone else and don't see her just waiting around after you said they were just friends.



In regards to Anora, I think there's a significant difference between continuing a relationship that's already been initiated and initiating a relationship with an already married man. We know she's willing to do the former, but would she really go out of her way for the latter?



Having said all that, if Arcturus flirted with her or they just naturally got closer to each other over the course of working together at Gwaren, then she'd probably be open to the idea hardened.

[KnightofPhoenix]

wickedgoodreed wrote...
In regards to Anora, I think there's a significant difference between continuing a relationship that's already been initiated and initiating a relationship with an already married man. We know she's willing to do the former, but would she really go out of her way for the latter?
 

Doesn't she?
I never tried the option, but I remember at coronation that I can tell her "does the hero get the girl? And I assume that would lead her to becoming my mistress if hardened, even when they did not have any relationship prior.(I am basing this on another PC consort telling her this and she refusing to be his mistress as she was unhardened).

Now this could be a game error, I don't know. Maybe it is OOC for her.
But I *think*, she can become mistress of a Cousland Consort who did not initiate the romance with her prior to that (or maybe parted ways as friends). 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:28 .

[wickedgoodreed]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

wickedgoodreed wrote...
In regards to Anora, I think there's a significant difference between continuing a relationship that's already been initiated and initiating a relationship with an already married man. We know she's willing to do the former, but would she really go out of her way for the latter?
 

Doesn't she?
I never tried the option, but I remember at coronation that I can tell her "does the hero get the girl? And I assume that would lead her to becoming my mistress if hardened, even when they did not have any relationship prior.(I am basing this on another PC consort telling her this and she refusing to be his mistress as she was unhardened).

Now this could be a game error, I don't know. Maybe it is OOC for her.
But I *think*, she can become mistress of a Cousland Consort who did not initiate the romance with her prior to that (or maybe parted ways as friends). 

I would be very surprised if she would become a mistress of a warden who never romanced her. That definitely sounds like a bug to me.

It's a moot point though since in that case you're the one actively pursuing her. She doesn't just up and offer to stay on as mistress at the coronation.

[Zjarcal]

Based on what you say about Arcturus being shy about expressing his feelings, thus not making it clear that he's not over Morrigan, I could see Leliana trying to approach Arcturus as a friend, but maybe trying to "test the waters" (similar to the hair conversation for females in the game) and see if he's over Morrigan. If she felt that Arcturus gave signals that he is over Morrigan then perhaps she would make a move.



As for a physical thing, she would be up for it no doubt, but only if Arcturus suggested it first. I'm not sure if I can see her deliberately going after him for it given their friendship and her lack of knowledge on how Arcturus feels about Morrigan.

[Zjarcal]

wickedgoodreed wrote...

We also know that a difference in her romance between male and female wardens is that she's willing to actively pursue female wardens, but doesn't pursue male wardens romantically unless they make the first move. 

This is the other thing I was going to bring up. Leli makes a deliberate move for the female warden, while she doesn't for the male. Taking that into consideration, I'd say the odds of her making a move on Arcturus get a bit lower.

[KnightofPhoenix]

wickedgoodreed wrote...
It's a moot point though since in that case you're the one actively pursuing her. She doesn't just up and offer to stay on as mistress at the coronation.

But she accepts it readily. So if say she misinterpretted Arcturus again, like she did the first time. Or, now that she's had more time to be hardened, decides to be more pro-active. Wouldn't she?
I am not saying that she would vulgarily try to seduce him. Not only do I think she would know that this would irritate him, but that's not Leliana. Just subtly throw hints and try to get closer.

Perhaps if Arcturus displayed some form of unhappiness towards his marriage. Would she see this as an "avenue" (don't want to make it sound like she is an opportunist, just for the lack of a better term). 

@ Zjarcal.
Let's say hypothetically they hug and both get tempted and Arcturus "accidently" makes a somewhat suggestive move (not outright touching, for instance like smelling her hair oir breath heavily...not sure if that's suggestive to anyone except me lol). Would she try to...amp it up? Like go a step further?

Sorry for asking too many questions. I am just interested in her character, I think if Morrigan wasn't there, Hardened Leliana and Arcturus would go along ver ywell and he knows this. So that's why he would be tempted.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Now this could be a game error, I don't know. Maybe it is OOC for her.
But I *think*, she can become mistress of a Cousland Consort who did not initiate the romance with her prior to that (or maybe parted ways as friends). 

I think ejoslin mentioned something about this in her latest dialogue fix. Apparently that line (the hero getting the girl) is only supposed to show up for wardens who are in romance with her or had a previous romance. I'm not sure though.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
This is the other thing I was going to bring up. Leli makes a deliberate move for the female warden, while she doesn't for the male. Taking that into consideration, I'd say the odds of her making a move on Arcturus get a bit lower.

Isn't that due to her conception of chivalry though?
And she actually does make a move on a male warden if I recall correctly. She talks about him watchign over her as she sleeps and she suggests that they can take it further.

I am not sure how she is with a female. But with a male, she can be pro-active and she can suggest that they take it to another level. And that's when unhardened.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ Zjarcal.
Let's say hypothetically they hug and both get tempted and Arcturus "accidently" makes a somewhat suggestive move (not outright touching, for instance like smelling her hair oir breath heavily...not sure if that's suggestive to anyone except me lol). Would she try to...amp it up? Like go a step further?

Sorry for asking too many questions. I am just interested in her character, I think if Morrigan wasn't there, Hardened Leliana and Arcturus would go along ver ywell and he knows this. So that's why he would be tempted.

Smelling hair is a suggestive thing to do, it's not just you! Lol!

It depends on how suggestive the move is.  If it's suggestive enough then she could be tempted.

And hey, keep asking as many questions as possible! It gets the discussion going and we increase the page count!

Modifié par Zjarcal, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Isn't that due to her conception of chivalry though?
And she actually does make a move on a male warden if I recall correctly. She talks about him watchign over her as she sleeps and she suggests that they can take it further.

I am not sure how she is with a female. But with a male, she can be pro-active and she can suggest that they take it to another level. And that's when unhardened.

Well, having not played the male romance I'm missing more than a few lines. If there is a situation where she makes a move (as in, she starts the conversation) on the male warden then perhaps I could see your Arcturus situation playing out.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Good, my talk of romance on the Alistair thread made me feel too lonely lol

Now, another aspect of their relationship. Arcturus is a very practical man and he values loyalty and friendship. But, it's the kind of friendship that is not strictly unconditional. It's more like friends offering favors to one another (Vito Corleone like from the Godfather if you've watched it). Soo, he wants to take her with him not only because he enjoys her company, but also because she might prove useful. So it's partially instrumental and that was a major reason why he hardened her, because he felt she might become useful to him.

Now obviously, this sounds a bit too close to Leliana's relationship with Marjolaine. Now I don't think Arcturus is just using her and doesn't actually care for her, he does but he also values people with skill who can help him. But I realize that he can be seen as similar to Marjolaine, especially at first exterior glance.

So, do you think this might become a source of friction? Like suppose Arcturus asked Leliana (gently, charmingly) to help him in political matters, using her bard skills. Do you think she would do it without question or hesitation? Would she hesitate a bit / be skepitcal but eventually trust him and do it? Would she require more guarantees and effort from him to convince her? Or would she reject it completely and freak out?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 octobre 2010 - 11:56 .

[wickedgoodreed]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

wickedgoodreed wrote...
It's a moot point though since in that case you're the one actively pursuing her. She doesn't just up and offer to stay on as mistress at the coronation.

But she accepts it readily. So if say she misinterpretted Arcturus again, like she did the first time. Or, now that she's had more time to be hardened, decides to be more pro-active. Wouldn't she?
I am not saying that she would vulgarily try to seduce him. Not only do I think she would know that this would irritate him, but that's not Leliana. Just subtly throw hints and try to get closer.

Perhaps if Acrutus displayed some form of unhappiness towards his marriage. Would she see this as an "avenue" (don't want to make it sound like she is an opportunist, just for the lack of a better term). 

I'm still not willing to concede that she would accept it readily. Like I said, that sounds like a bug. You say, you never tried the option so how are you sure she accepts? I ask because I do know that the "does the heroine get the girl" option was available to me on the one playthrough as a HNF warden who chose a political marriage with Alistair. When I chose it, she responded by saying something along the lines of, "uhhh, aren't you getting married?" So even though the option is there to ask her, it doesn't mean she takes you up on it.

And like I said before, I really think that if your warden told her they were just friends, she'd move on and pursue someone else. I think she's a character looking for someone to love and it's not like a woman like her would be lacking for options. Unless Acrutus is just that awesome (which is entirely possible) why would she go to the trouble when Acrutus told her they were only friends and she could easily find love elsewhere? 

But since we're playing hypotheticals. If she doesn't move on and if Acrutus unknowingly leads her on by flirting with her, complaining about his marriage to Anora, and suggesting he's moved on from Morrigan, then, he'd be sending her signals that she would probably be open to hardened. In that case, I could see her subtly flirting with him to gauge his response. Though I have a hard time buying that he would be sending so many signals without realizing how she might misinterpret them.

[Zjarcal]

I really gotta see those Godfather movies, I have no idea who Vito Corleone is (aside from him being in your sig!).



You had mentioned once about how Arcturus hardened her with the intention of her being more useful to him. Whether it would be a source of friction or not, depends on how Arcturus handles it. I don't think hardened Leli would have a problem using her bard skills to help a friend, especially the King Consort. During the mistress conversation she says "And for me to be so close to the throne of Ferelden! I foresee interesting times ahead.", something that suggests that a little intrigue and political games would up her alley.

[KnightofPhoenix]

wickedgoodreed wrote...
But since we're playing hypotheticals. If she doesn't move on and if Acrutus unknowingly leads her on by flirting with her, complaining about his marriage to Anora, and suggesting he's moved on from Morrigan, then, he'd be sending her signals that she would probably be open to hardened. In that case, I could see her subtly flirting with him to gauge his response. Though I have a hard time buying that he would be sending so many signals without realizing how she might misinterpret them.

He wouldn't suggest that he moved on from Morrigan. He wouldn't talk about her at all, to anyone. His seemingly being cool and not mentioning Morrigan at all might be interpretted as a signal that he got over her. 

So one way Leliana can test the waters is ask about Morrigan. Arcturus wouldn't cry or anything, but he would change the subject really quickly and not talk about it. So, would she see this as a signal that he isn't over her? Or would she see this as Arcturus being angry at Morrigan for leaving and he doesn't want to talk about it? If she thought it was the latter, could she try to expand on that?

Of course I am not suggesting that Leliana couldn't find someone else. And as awesome as he is, he isn't the only man around (and she can find a woman anyways). But she's on deep raods expeditions and while it's possible that she could falls in love with someone down there, it's possible that she doesn't find anyone.

And she might think she is over him and they are friends. But I don't know. If they were together for months in a boring village and she starts remembering the old days. I am sure she would think about it. Arcturus would. It depends on the context and sometimes, cravings and feelings like that just come and go.

[Zjarcal]

wickedgoodreed wrote...

I'm still not willing to concede that she would accept it readily. Like I said, that sounds like a bug. You say, you never tried the option so how are you sure she accepts? I ask because I do know that the "does the heroine get the girl" option was available to me on the one playthrough as a HNF warden who chose a political marriage with Alistair. When I chose it, she responded by saying something along the lines of, "uhhh, aren't you getting married?" So even though the option is there to ask her, it doesn't mean she takes you up on it.

Yep, I also don't see her becoming mistress to someone she isn't in a relationship with. She's willing to put up with it because she was already in love with the warden.

And like I said before, I really think that if your warden told her they were just friends, she'd move on and pursue someone else. I think she's a character looking for someone to love and it's not like a woman like her would be lacking for options. Unless Acrutus is just that awesome (which is entirely possible) why would she go to the trouble when Acrutus told her they were only friends and she could easily find love elsewhere? 

Also agreed. Leli wouldn't pursue someone who already rejected her as a lack of options isn't exactly a problem for her.

Of course, the situation KoP presents is one in which they both meet again for other purposes, and then the possibility of a fling shows up, so it's a somewhat different scenario. And I do feel that it has to be Arcturus who makes the first subtle move for her to actually show any interest.

And for the record (according to KoP at least), Arcturus IS that awesome. 

[Zeleen]

Ok here's an idea for mondays..

since that's the day of the Leli prompt... what about art or pics that relate to the prompt... not entries for the challenge.. If it doesn't have Leli in it we can caption how, what or whatever to the pic to relate to Leli



thoughts?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

I really gotta see those Godfather movies, I have no idea who Vito Corleone is (aside from him being in your sig!).

You had mentioned once about how Arcturus hardened her with the intention of her being more useful to him. Whether it would be a source of friction or not, depends on how Arcturus handles it. I don't think hardened Leli would have a problem using her bard skills to help a friend, especially the King Consort. During the mistress conversation she says "And for me to be so close to the throne of Ferelden! I foresee interesting times ahead.", something that suggests that a little intrigue and political games would up her alley.

That's his son Michael actually

Huh, that's good! I was sort of worried that she might resist the idea, due to her experience. Like she would prefer to be more of a freelancer, rather than attached to one person and essentially follow orders (said in a very nice way though lol).

Leliana, as head of the secret service. Another fantasy of mine.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Of course, the situation KoP presents is one in which they both meet again for other purposes, and then the possibility of a fling shows up, so it's a somewhat different scenario. And I do feel that it has to be Arcturus who makes the first subtle move for her to actually show any interest.

And for the record (according to KoP at least), Arcturus IS that awesome. 

Yes, they would be together, alone, in a boring vilage. They both are physically attracted to each other. And they had somewhat of a fling in the past (because she misinterpretted and / or he got carried away).

And assuming that Leliana, for months, didn't find anyone due to her being in the deep roads and she has a lot of unspent energy. Simirarily, Arcturus' marriage isn't going as well as he would have hoped and Anora is stil cold to him. And he likes to flirt.

From an outside perspective, putting the two of them together in a boring vilage sounds like a recipee for disaster (tempting, but still a disaster).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 octobre 2010 - 12:15 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

He wouldn't suggest that he moved on from Morrigan. He wouldn't talk about her at all, to anyone. His seemingly being cool and not mentioning Morrigan at all might be interpretted as a signal that he got over her. 

So one way Leliana can test the waters is ask about Morrigan. Arcturus wouldn't cry or anything, but he would change the subject really quickly and not talk about it. So, would she see this as a signal that he isn't over her? Or would she see this as Arcturus being angry at Morrigan for leaving and he doesn't want to talk about it? If she thought it was the latter, could she try to expand on that?

I think she would see it as a signal he isn't over her. And even if she didn't, I don't she'd try to expand on it too much as she'd feel it's a sensitive issue.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Leliana, as head of the secret service. Another fantasy of mine. 

Now you're giving me ideas... 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 19 octobre 2010 - 12:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

He got ninja-romanced, that's it. But nothing serious happened. She just got angry when he got close to Morrigan and then got over it (she still said Morrigan was a lucky woman to have Arcturus, so it was on her mind). So no they were not in a relationship. It's just me trying to make sense of the ninja romance phenomenon. Yes, he asked if her fruit is forbidden, because he likes to joke like that sometimes (and he was genuinely curious) and he complimented her looks several times (and he meant it).

That was the extent of their relationship, just to make it clear. Isn't that a fling?

And whatever ideas you are having, DO EET!

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 octobre 2010 - 12:24 .

[Zjarcal]

NVM, you already answered it!

Modifié par Zjarcal, 19 octobre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

That was the extent of their relationship, just to make it clear. Isn't that a fling?

But how did Arcturus handled the romance dialogues, like the "the stars are out" convo? Or did he ended it before they got there?

In my book a fling usually involves sex (or at least some physical interaction), which you only get until you reach adore. If it ended before that, it was more like they just flirted a bit, which she obviously liked as well, but it's not something she'd have to get over.

And whatever ideas you are having, DO EET!

I will!

Modifié par Zjarcal, 19 octobre 2010 - 12:29 .