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[Zjarcal]

@Axe

Hehe, should I also mention that Morrigan and Dog are my favorite companions (after Leli of course)? 

The Cauthrien fight is in my opinion the best example of how to make a challenging fight without going for the typical "tougher enemies with a lot of health" route (like Golems of Amgarrak). It requires strategy and a well balanced party as well as good timing in everything you do (especially at the beginning). 

I admit, I always feel good about myself when I finish the battle without having any of my party members fall during the battle (which is how I've been playing my last two games, no deaths on any party members). The "Captured" quest may be fun (although very illogical), but surrendering is NEVER an option. I've done it only for testing purposes but I reload immediately to do the fight.

On a side note, remind me never to leave Redcliffe for last in the main quests. Seriously, how anticlimatic it is to come right out of Orzammar and all those challenging sections in the Deep Roads, to face a bunch of undead enemies meant for players under level 10.

I deliberately sabotaged myself as much as I could (didn't upgrade the militia's armory, didn't recruit any extra help) and I still was able to keep everyone alive and with no healer in the party. It's so damn easy at high levels that you think to yourself "this is what you people were afraid of".

Redcliffe really is meant for low level wardens, it's a fun fight at level 7-10, but at level 17 it's a complete snoozefest.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 23 novembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[Axekix]

Zjarcal wrote...

@Axe

Hehe, should I also mention that Morrigan and Dog are my favorite companions (after Leli of course)? 

Clearly you have excellent taste.

The Cauthrien fight is in my opinion the best example of how to make a challenging fight without going for the typical "tougher enemies with a lot of health" route (like Golems of Amgarrak). It requires strategy and a well balanced party as well as good timing in everything you do (especially at the beginning). 

I admit, I always feel good about myself when I finish the battle without having any of my party members fall during the battle (which is how I've been playing my last two games, no deaths on any party members). The "Captured" quest may be fun (although very illogical), but surrendering is NEVER an option. I've done it only for testing purposes but I reload immediately to do the fight.

Yeah I play the exact same way!  Actually in my first game Cauthrien destroyed my party so badly (on normal...) I decided to do my homework and get into the game mechanics side of things.  Now I play nightmare/no pots/no player or party member KOs. 

Having Morrigan and Leli w/ Captivating Song in party can lead to some straight up broken CC combos.

Edit: oh and...

I deliberately sabotaged myself as much as I could (didn't upgrade the
militia's armory, didn't recruit any extra help) and I still was able to
keep everyone alive and with no healer in the party

Even Lloyd?!  I usually have Morrigan kill him off with friendly fire on purpose...

Modifié par Axekix, 23 novembre 2010 - 03:55 .

[Zjarcal]

I have never given Leli Captivating Song but now that I think about it, Captivating Song + Force Field must be a recipe for guaranteed success.



Funny how sometimes we ignore spells or talents only to later realize how awesome they can be.

[Axekix]

Zjarcal wrote...

I have never given Leli Captivating Song but now that I think about it, Captivating Song + Force Field must be a recipe for guaranteed success.

Funny how sometimes we ignore spells or talents only to later realize how awesome they can be.

It just might be the most broken thing ever.  Leli's utility is pretty much the reason I still know jack about Zevran's story... he just doesn't fill her shoes unless you respec him...

[Zjarcal]

I'm tempted to use that spell combo in the Cauthrien fight but I fear it will take the fun away from it.



As for Zev, I actually have both Leli and Zev most of the time in my party (except for my current run were Zev was killed on the spot... *sniff*). I just love rogues. Plus I like to play with a party of "squishy" companions to increase the challenge. Who needs a tank?

[Ashaman X]

I specced Leli with the Duelist talent, even though she almost never uses melee weapons, unless she is being attacked directly. I pretty much pump everything into her archery skills. I suppose I did it for roleplaying reasons, as Assassin didn't sit well with me for her after her past. She might know the skills, but if she is unhardened, it just feels wrong giving it to her. Ranger doesn't work either, as I can see Leli liking nature, but she isn't close enough to it for that kind of bond to really work.



If she was in Awakening, I probably would have given her Legionaire Scout.

[Zjarcal]

Axekix wrote...

Edit: oh and...

I deliberately sabotaged myself as much as I could (didn't upgrade the
militia's armory, didn't recruit any extra help) and I still was able to
keep everyone alive and with no healer in the party

Even Lloyd?!  I usually have Morrigan kill him off with friendly fire on purpose...

ROFL!

Well, I gutted him in the tavern. It was fitting for my character and getting to kill him while saying "I call it taking out the trash" was too funny!

[Giggles_Manically]

The Cauthrian fight is easy for me:

Morrigan: Blood Mage with Group Heal

Wynne or Mage PC: with Group Paralysis and forcefield

Zevran or Leliana as DPS rouge.

Main tank NPC.



Drop a forcefield on Cauthrien, blood wound (mass paralysis) on each flank, and sick the rouge on the mage.

Turn my most powerful spells on one flank, and my other two NPC's on the other.

By the time the stuns wear off each flank is mostly dead and subject to a fireball or second blood wound from my other mage.



When cauthrian finally gets free I drop all the hexes on her and tank/backstab until she is toast.

A great bear summon also makes this easy since that thing has so much health.



It works very well unless I hit lag that causes my spells to delay, or make Cauthrien not feel the forcefield. The fight is still epic.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

On my mage run, Cauthrien fight was hilarious!



I couldn't stop laughing at how my blood mage/shapeshifter Amell TANKED more than half of the enemy forces while Cauthrien was distracted by Wynne, Morrigan, and Alistair. Serously, Dorrian can take hits like a champ after all those constitution points I've pumped into him. Even overwhelms aren't much of a problem.

[Zjarcal]

I've done the Cauthrien fight with many different parties, my last was with Leli (dual wielder), Zevran (dual wielder), Morrigan (Mass paralysis, sleep, cone of cold, and mind blast as CC abilities), and my rogue archer PC. And Dog with the EDS mod (which is the pretty much the same as having a master ranger blight wolf).



The biggest issue for me is always at the beginning when desperately trying to avoid the scattershot spam. My main gripe is how sometimes you'll queue a spell as soon as you gain control of the party, but because combat hasn't officially started, the spell will not be cast as the character decides to walk away instead. Infuriating!



My hardest time in that battle was when I did it with my blood mage PC, Leli (archer), Morrigan (same as above), and Dog (I wasn't using the EDS mod back then). Getting rid of all the arches was cake, but since all my companions (including my PC) were "squishy" avoiding instant death from Cauthrien's blows was pretty hard.

[Giggles_Manically]

Misderection Hex is your friend.



Last time I used it she got maybe one hit the whole fight.

[Zjarcal]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Misderection Hex is your friend.

She kept resisting it every time Morrigan casted it.

My easiest battle with Cauthrien I think was with my duelist rogue PC who was untouchable. No need for misdirection hex since Cauthrien couldn't touch her anyway.

Seriously though, something similar to the Cauthrien fight would've been very fitting for the final battle, especially inside Fort Drakon.

[Lenimph]

Ashaman X wrote...

I specced Leli with the Duelist talent, even though she almost never uses melee weapons, unless she is being attacked directly. I pretty much pump everything into her archery skills. I suppose I did it for roleplaying reasons, as Assassin didn't sit well with me for her after her past. She might know the skills, but if she is unhardened, it just feels wrong giving it to her. Ranger doesn't work either, as I can see Leli liking nature, but she isn't close enough to it for that kind of bond to really work.
 

 

This is how I feel 

[Zjarcal]

@Ashaman



I have been using Leli less and less as an archer and more as a dual wielder. As much as I love archery, dual wielding is just too damn great (plus I can get Leli deathblows).



About Leli's connection to nature not being strong enough, I don't know how close you'd have to be to form a bond with an animal companion, but I doubt it would be hard for her to form that bond really.



As for the assassin thing, I don't know. When I give her that particular spec it's not like I'm imagining she's going back to her old ways, she's simply using the talents she already knows to help against the blight.

[Lenimph]

I want to write something about Leliana but I feel so lazy...

[Ashaman X]

@ Zjarcal



Of course, it's all subjective to each person who plays. I see Leli one way, you see her another way, and the end result is that Leli still wins either way lol. No matter what anyone does, Leli is just plain awesome. I think that my mage has more than once looked at Leli wistfully and told her how awesome she is, with everything that she can do. Of course, Leli is wistful in return, as she is quite interested in magic (as she once tells Wynne). Win-win situation.

[I set my friends on fire]

Hello Leliana fans just finished my first playthrough. I dumped Leliana for Morrigan but only because her romance dies after you have sex. she was great, espicially her banters

[Lenimph]

What do you guys think happens to Leliana if she goes back to Orlay to seek out Marjolaine?

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont really know since Marjorlane dies in all my games.

[Lenimph]

She dies in my games too... but lets step out of our own boxes for a sec and think...

[Giggles_Manically]

I think that it would not end well for anyone involved.



Leliana is tough, but Majorlane is both smart and prepared.



I dont really want to imagine what would happen to anyone involved.

[Ashaman X]

Lenimph wrote...

What do you guys think happens to Leliana if she goes back to Orlay to seek out Marjolaine?

She probably finds Marj after a long and drawn out process and kills her. I really can't see her doing anything else, as her whole personality would have been hardened to go through that I think. After Marj was dead, I'm not 100% sure. I don't think Leli would take up being a bard again, but I doubt she would enter the Chantry again either. She'd probably start some kind of espionage business or something and have a charity running on the side.

The only time I would want Leli to return to Orlais is when she goes with my Warden on a state visit, as wife and minstel to the Arlessa of Amaranthine.

[Lenimph]

Hmm... does she ever during post-coronation explicitly state why she's going back to find Marjolaine; to reconcile/kill her? Or is that just... left open...
I'm really curious now...

It concerns me that this is what she chooses to do if she does not fall in love with the Warden... hardened or not... 
It shows that she's still dwelling on past love even if it was so dark.

Modifié par Lenimph, 24 novembre 2010 - 04:10 .

[Zjarcal]

I think it's pretty clear that she goes to kill her. First of all it only happens when hardened, and as that line during the "what will you do after this is over" conversation says, she wants to put an end to it.



So to me it's pretty clear that she's not going back to give Marjolaine a hug.

[Lenimph]

Ehh wiki says it happens hardened or unhardened...

Regardless it still bothers me that the only way she gets over it is falling in love with the Warden...

Modifié par Lenimph, 24 novembre 2010 - 04:17 .