9727 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

Oh, my mistake then.

Still, considering that if you leave Marjolaine alive, Leliana will express regret at not having killed her (and again, considering what she says during the "when this is over" conversation), I see it only as her going back to put an end to it.

Which is why Marjolaine must always die. Spare Leli the trouble (and danger) of having to seek her out.

Lenimph wrote...

Regardless it still bothers me that the only way she gets over it is falling in love with the Warden...

Well, even if in love with the warden she isn't really over it (if she's hardened), at least in the sense that she still considers it a loose end.

Sure, she doesn't act on that intention if in love with the warden, but it's clear she considers it a loose end that must be eliminated one day.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 novembre 2010 - 04:22 .

[Lenimph]

Hmm
Bleh...
I'm having icky "warden is the replacement of Marjolaine thoughts"

I'll shut up now... and take a shower too...

Modifié par Lenimph, 24 novembre 2010 - 04:27 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I really think that Leliana is looking for someone to be close to, be that a lover or a friend.



Honestly I cant spare Marjorlane. That cheap rip off of Pepe le Pew must die.

[Lenimph]

Regardless thought even if you become a good friend she ditches you to go find Marjolaine and wont let you come along apparently...



I should have never read the wiki...

[Giggles_Manically]

Well yah I think tracking down the crazy woman who wants to kill you supersedes friendship really.

[Zjarcal]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well yah I think tracking down the crazy woman who wants to kill you supersedes friendship really.

Agreed.

It's your own fault for leaving Marjolaine alive if that happens to you. I can't blame Leliana for wanting to hunt her down if that's the case.

And I suppose she doesn't want to take the warden with her because the warden wasn't much help the last time around.

But really, the thought that the "warden is the new Marjolaine" is... meh.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 novembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[Lenimph]

Why can't the friend go too though is my point...

Having the warden at your back to kill her just seems... smarter...

[Giggles_Manically]

That troll we all hate would love this topic.



More to the point I am a blunt instrument and when I hit an obstacle I obliterate it with an unending wall of pain that leaves only debris in the area. Anyone who attacks me or gets in my way wont be for long in a game.

My first and best solution is to destroy any and all opposition, or enemy buildings.



Marjorlane attacks me, and is not going to let things go, then she dies.

[Zjarcal]

Lenimph wrote...

Why can't the friend go too though is my point...
Having the warden at your back to kill her just seems... smarter...

As I said in my last post, you weren't much help the last time around if you talked her out of killing Marjolaine.

And friendship is one thing, love is another. Much like Morrigan will ditch a friend (or even a lover) to go on her own thing, Leli would feel in this case that this is her issue, not yours. And since you already expressed a desire to NOT kill Marjolaine, she probably feels that you'd do the same again.

But again, this is all avoided by doing the smart thing and that's lopping Marjolaine's head and then placing it on a stick.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 novembre 2010 - 04:56 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

Why can't the friend go too though is my point...
Having the warden at your back to kill her just seems... smarter...

As I said in my last post, you weren't much help the last time around if you talked her out of killing Marjolaine.

And friendship is one thing, love is another. Much like Morrigan will ditch a friend (or lover) to go on her own thing, Leli would feel in this case that this is her issue, not yours.

But again, this is all avoided by doing the smart thing and that's lopping Marjolaine's head and then placing it on a stick.

[Zjarcal]

*takes a bow* 

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

*takes a bow* 

This is my general tactic on Marjorlane:

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:03 .

[Lenimph]

But it was Leliana who told Marjolaine to go away... It's the warden who insinuates death...

[Giggles_Manically]

Lenimph wrote...

But it was Leliana who told Marjolaine to go away... It's the warden who insinuates death...

All the warden says is:
"You know she will never leave you alone"
Then Leliana starts to fight.

That's not  much of a nudge.

[Lenimph]

"You can't let her get away with what she did"
"You know she will hound you as long as she lives" <(My favorite choice btw I love the word hound..)
....

Modifié par Lenimph, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Zjarcal]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

All the warden says is:
"You know she will never leave you alone"
Then Leliana starts to fight.

That's not  much of a nudge.

Yep. 

Leliana was there to kill Marjolaine. After the random ambush by Marjolaine soldiers she says "maybe it's time to settle the score once and for all", which makes it very clear that she intends to put a definitive end to it

The lines that spare Marjolaine are basically the warden trying to impose a peaceful solution and put words in Leli's mouth.

"Leliana has put her past behind her, you should too"

or 

"She means go away"... does she?

Basically you're trying to speak for Leliana, while with the other lines you're just stating the obvious and Leli is the one who actually attacks.

And again, if the warden actually chooses to talk Leli out of killing Marjolaine even after hearing her story and having assassins sent after her, I wouldn't consider that warden to be of much help.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:19 .

[Lenimph]

Hmmm

Regardless "You know she will never leave you alone" is not what the warden says... "You can't let her get away with what she did"
&
"You know she will hound you as long as she lives" both insinuate punishment...

Is Leliana's mind really even made up if the warden's word... who doesn't know the whole (there is always two sides to a tale) story... is the deciding factor?

Of course DA is all about making ill-informed decisions so ... whatever... I'm not going to rage on that there should have been a neutral dialog option here that let Leliana make her own decision but whatever...

Modifié par Lenimph, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:38 .

[Zjarcal]

Lenimph wrote...

Is Leliana's mind really even made up if the warden's word... who doesn't know the whole (there is always two sides to a tale) story... is the deciding factor?

She doesn't "want" to kill Marjolaine but deep down she knows she has too. She may doubt herself in the heat of the moment (killing your former lover can't be an easy decision no matter what they did to you), but she knows very well that she has too. Again, judging by her reaction back in camp if you don't kill her, it's clear she regrets the decision, so while she may waver in the moment, deep down she knows that she'll only be at peace until Marjolaine is dead.

You just need to remind her of why she went there.

[Lenimph]

Again the warden doesn't know what is going on in Leliana's head before the encounter, so reminding her isn't what the warden is doing.

And there are signs that she regrets the decision either way... rejoicing in her death is what Marjolaine would have done... (Huh reminds me of Leliana's song... but thats dlc lets not bring that into this)

Leliana is so confused after the encounter regardless of what happens she even expresses that leaving the cloister was a mistake, and is so malleable she changes her morality to the will of the warden... I wouldn't take any of her words from that point as stable thought.

Modifié par Lenimph, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:15 .

[Zjarcal]

Lenimph wrote...

Again the warden doesn't know what is going on in Leliana's head before the encounter, so reminding her isn't what the warden is doing.

You think so? Maybe not in the sense that you know how she feels about the situation, but you do know she's there to put an end to the grudge. Again, her words after Marjolaine's assassins attack, "perhaps it's time to settle the score for good" make it very clear (to me at least) that she intends to put and end to this for good.

And there are signs that she regrets the decision either way... rejoicing in her death is what Marjolaine would have done... (Huh reminds me of Leliana's song... but thats dlc lets not bring that into this)

Leliana is so confused after the encounter regardless of what happens she even expresses that leaving the cloister was a mistake, and is so malleable she changes her morality to the will of the warden... I wouldn't take any of her words from that point as stable thought.

True, although it's not so much regret over killing her as it is not wanting to rejoice in her death. Her words are "when we killed her, it gave me satisfaction". That's what bothers her, the satisfaction part, not so much that she killed Marjolaine.

But I do agree that the encounter leaves her a wreck and that she's so confused she doesn't even know who she is anymore.

However I don't like how Leli's morality is left in the will of the warden by simply saying one line. I've always hated that. I guess this is where gameplay mechanics come to spoil things. It's easier to set one "changed personality" flag with one line, than setting several "personality traits" with multiple flags.

Which is kind of what you were arguing for in the Marjolaine encounter right? A line that actually left the warden out of the decision. That would've been good to be honest.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:51 .

[Lenimph]

Yeah the line for hardening her is a gross line and I've only hardened her once... with my male mage... (a play-through I might never finish...)



And yes that was what I was arguing for. I really didn't feel like it was my business my first play through around, and I just wanted Marjolaine dead for dissing on Mabari...

[Zjarcal]

What makes the hardening lines even harder to pick for me (impossible really since I never pick them) is that telling Leli "You're a good person, you always will be." is really the only thing I would ever want to tell her at that point.



And what's with the whole "Ferelden smells of wet dog" thing? Even Sten comments on it.



By the way, all this Marjolaine talk has gotten me in the mood to kill her again. A good thing that I'm right there on my current playthrough. But I fear I won't be able to recapture the glory of the previous decapitation.

[Lenimph]

 I know even my Dalish when she first got to Ostagar said "what's that smell..." 
Actually I think Marjolaine says something like "And this coming from a Dalish" if you defend Ferelden's smell as one... Of course it's been almost a year since I first played Dragon Age (and as a Dalish) though so... I could be mistaken... 

Also
+10 To Voyeurism by me-loves-spicer

Modifié par Lenimph, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:33 .

[Ashaman X]

Was uploading some photos elsewhere, and came across this one. Thought I'd share it here. With all things Leli, her tone of voice when she spoke about the nugs for the first time just melted my Warden's heart.



And of course, Leli's comment on the cute wannabe dwarf mage Dagna:



Entrance of Marj's home:



Lastly, someone is a little bossy

Modifié par Ashaman X, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:07 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Is that a face morph you are using Ashaman?