9727 réponses à ce sujet

[Ollymandias]

I thought the codex in Darkspawn Chronicles said Alistair was going to marry Anora, so I guess he broke up with Leliana in the end.

FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU---!



I can take Alistair doing that to my human mage, but it is heartbreaking to imagine him giving his speech to Leliana.

Anora

I'm no Anora-hater personally, but I sort of wish she had been one of the killable Denerim residents in DSC. Could also have done with an Eamon and Isolde, and Jowan, and maybe Shianni too.

[bleetman]

Ollymandias wrote...

I sort of wish she had been one of the killable Denerim residents in DSC. Could also have done with an Eamon and Isolde, and Jowan, and maybe Shianni too.

What! Everybody loves Shianni

[Ollymandias]

Everybody loves Shianni

I don't want her there because I dislike her! Of course not! I'm no monster!



I think Shianni is great- she shows immense personal strength of will and resilience during the CE origin, and later when the Tevinter slavers are harvesting alienage elves, she demonstrates that her experiences during the CE origin have not broken her spirit and she remains just as outspoken and intent on standing up for her fellow alienage residents.



I sort of wanted her in DSC for the same reasons I liked seeing Bann Teagan in DSC. I had to cover my eyes when my darkspawn got him down to 1/4 health and pass the controller to my flatmate. And I think she was important enough to get a codex note too. More important and memorable (story-wise) than Valendrian! I felt NOTHING when my darkspawn killed Valendrian except a sort of quizzical "Who was he supposed to be, again?"

[Lenimph]

jon1991 wrote...

I thought the codex in Darkspawn Chronicles said Alistair was going to marry Anora, so I guess he broke up with Leliana in the end.

I'm so glad I haven't bought DC...

:crying:Of course it was to avoid information just like this...

[Giggles_Manically]

 Yes Leliana + Alistair is: Wrong

More to the point I just cant see it working.
Leliana: The Orlesian guards captured me.. did terrible things to make me confess.
Alistair: 
Leliana: Its ok I-
Alistair: What? Oh I was just thinking about Duncan again.
Leliana: <_<

On another note DSC is just flat out lame across the board.

[Lenimph]

Yeah like seriously I'd rather pair her off with Morrigan... err not like I read or write anything about that.... *hides*

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Giggles, you capured my thoughts on Leliana/Alistair perfectly!



By the way, is there a "slap Alistair" mod? My Warden would love to do that for what he would have done had she not led the party.

[ArawnNox]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Giggles, you capured my thoughts on Leliana/Alistair perfectly!

By the way, is there a "slap Alistair" mod? My Warden would love to do that for what he would have done had she not led the party.

Just one to punch him out at the Archdemon fight.

[Ollymandias]

Yeah like seriously I'd rather pair her off with Morrigan... err not like I read or write anything about that....

May I have a link please? I'm new, so I don't know where everything is yet.



I actually prefer "if not the Warden" type companion+companion fanfic, but it's so terribly rare to find it. It's a shame when party banters mean that we all have insight into how one companion feels about/ relates to any other given companion.



Leliana + Morrigan would be a pretty interesting pairing. On the one hand, you have two women who seem superficially to be opposites- one is harsh while the other is kind, one is desperate to make friends with all the other companions while the other ostentatiously wears a loner's badge like a medal- both, to an extent, are masks. But then, comparing Flemeth and Marjolaine- both are older, both are mentors, both are the whole world to their fledgling (Leliana was in love for years, Morrigan never really knew anyone but her mother until she left the swamp) until they betray her.

[Lenimph]

Ollymandias wrote...

May I have a link please? I'm new, so I don't know where everything is yet.

 

 http://www.fanfictio...449/1/Sleepless  

[Ollymandias]

Thanks for the link! That was lovely.

"I don't like fighting with you, Morrigan. I want to be... friends. I need you to let me in though. I can talk about other things that don't involve the Maker or the chantry. I can talk about... fighting, or jewellery. I know you like jewellery.”

I liked this bit. It gets Leliana’s attitude across very well- she IS keen to make friends with everyone, and there’s even a hint of her “Everyone can be seduced by the right woman. The trick is predicting who she is and becoming her,” bard spiel there, though the Leliana you write here is softer than the one in my head.



The dialogue is well constructed and a pleasure to read- I can imagine it being spoken in their voices, which important for good fanfiction, with Morrigan being an acerbic tsundere, insecure behind her prickliness, and Leliana unabashed and given to bursts of hyperbole.



Thought it was a bit rushed with the confessions of love and so on- Morrigan in particular seems to be a bit quick with that. The beginning was a bit too much telling rather than showing too imo. This part: “seized her heart and made her feel emotions that she never thought she would again.” (emphasis mine) confused me a little- who had Morrigan been heart-seized bypreviously? It seems like that part might suit Leliana better, since she had her horrible relationship with Marjolaine to recover from. Also, we see Leliana as a being of two halves in the first paragraph, but we only see the Chantry good-girl in the rest of the story.



Generally though, I really enjoyed reading that! It’s really good to see fanfic for such a neglected pairing, and if there’s ever a sequel or a continuation I’d love to read that too.

[Lenimph]

I know it's pretty good isn't. That author has another one that was pretty well done too... but I didn't quite enjoy it as much as this one.



I think the biggest issue with Leli/Morr isn't their religious faith, but rather Morrigan's upbringing by Flemeth who basically taught her that sex was a basis to use men. The whole concept of love between two genders was completely foreign to her... imagine what love between the same gender must be? Impossible, impratical, etc.

[Esbatty]

[Ollymandias]

I think the biggest issue with Leli/Morr isn't their religious faith, but rather Morrigan's upbringing by Flemeth who basically taught her that sex was a basis to use men. The whole concept of love between two genders was completely foreign to her... imagine what love between the same gender must be? Impossible, impratical, etc.

Morrigan's pretty skilled when it comes to self-deception. She can tell herself until she's blue in the face that she only shares a male Warden's tent because she wants an Old God Baby at the end of her mission, but that's only a convenient excuse for acting on her shameful, forbidden feelings of the heart, right?

To get Morrigan to allow herself to be Tented by Leliana, we need to find a suitably weighty excuse for Morrigan to deceive herself with. That means that Leliana would have to do the pursuing, but it could still work as Leliana is almost compulsive when it comes to making friends and I think she prides herself on being able to find her way into just about anyone's good graces and Morrigan is a tough one to crack. She just has to be careful since Morrigan will fly off the handle if Leliana ever calls her a "softie" in public and I can just imagine how outraged and furious Morrigan would be if they were ever debating religion and Leliana whipped out the "I know it's irrational, but faith is irrational" line.

About Morrigan being taught that sex is only useful as a tool to use others, didn't Leliana get taught pretty much the same thing by Marjolaine? Sex is a tool to manipulate in the Orlesian Game, and Leliana's pretty unrepentant about this ("We must always use the resources at our disposal.  Not to do so is a waste."), and she seems proud of breaking hearts left and right- she even brags about it!- it was a Game to her. She's not playing the Game any more and she's turned over a new leaf, so she's stopped doing it, but even though she doesn't use sex for nefarious reasons any more, she definitely still likes to know she can find her way into the hearts of those around her.

I think that Leliana would perplex Morrigan because even though was taught that sex is a tool to manipulate in the Orlesian Game by Marjolaine, she still insists on openly pursuing frivolous romantic love when she really should know better. Morrigan would find that absolutely frustrating. That Leliana found herself royally played by the only person she ever felt that romantic love for should have taught her a proper lesson as the Golden Mirror taught Morrigan, yet still after that Leliana will allow herself- will actually pursue- romantic love... that would be eight shades of infuriating to Morrigan. Willful ignorance and irrationall disregard for one's own safety!

I could see Morrigan as secretly, deep down, wishing she was brave enough to want Golden Mirrors again. To want impractical and pretty and frivolous things. To "love a tall tale, simply because it made your heart race" to quote Leliana. But she's got Flemeth deeply imprinted in her superego telling her that all impractical, romantic fancies are for fools and must be shattered for her own good.

Modifié par Ollymandias, 14 décembre 2010 - 09:13 .

[Lenimph]

*wakes up and sees a wall of text*

*reads...thinks*

The way Morrigan and Leliana were taught to use sex are completely different. A tool yes, but in Marjolaine's teaching it is to put up a facade of emotional closeness, where as Flemeth's is more like use a man for his seed and have fun doing it....

Leliana was taught to recognize the emotional bonding one experiences through sex and twist that upon her will. Which I find allot scarier then anything Flemeth might have taught Morrigan (even if it was f*ck him then turn into a spider and scare the living sh!t out of him) Why do you think you have to have such a high approval to tent Leliana? She's afraid the warden might be doing what she used to do... "play the game."

And when she did play the game, I'm willing to bet Leliana found it fun because she had the false pretense that when she was done using those people she was going back to Marjolaine's bed at the end of mission, and making Marjolaine happy, to make the woman she loved happy. Leliana made the mistake of thinking, just because she was so good at the game herself, that she was immune to the game and didn't realize that she was being played by Marjolaine all along.

It takes an incredibly brave person to still believe so earnestly in love, if used the way Leliana was.

Morrigan on the other hand, has that deep imprinting from being raised by Flemeth and she might possibly dream of having the "golden mirrors" as you pointed out. But... after playing witch hunt, it seems evident to me that Morrigan puts her own personal goals far above her feelings for the warden and quite frankly will not let them get in the way for whatever she plans on doing, even if she loves him.

To me this proves that Morrigan will not give up any of her own personal desires for someone else, regardless if part of her might want to.

Modifié par Lenimph, 14 décembre 2010 - 08:14 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Slipping closer to page 2 people.



Also well said Lenimph.

[Lenimph]

It has been too quiet in here lately :/

Modifié par Lenimph, 15 décembre 2010 - 10:47 .

[Zjarcal]

I've been too busy on the Wynne threads...



Anyway, I agree completely with Leni's post. I could add more, but there's no need to and I'm worn out from the Wynne threads.



And since Marjolaine was mentioned, my hate for her was reignited...

[Lenimph]

That reminds me... I can believe I didn't post this here.

[Zjarcal]

Lenimph wrote...

That reminds me... I can believe I didn't post this here.

*smooch* <3

[Lenimph]

 Smoochies are awesome:wub:

Modifié par Lenimph, 16 décembre 2010 - 12:38 .

[Ollymandias]

Hardly a wall of text! It was broken into friendly bite-sized chunks!

To me this proves that Morrigan will not give up any of her own personal desires for someone else, regardless if part of her might want to.

I agree completely that Morrigan would never put any sentimental feelings ahead of her ambitions and goals, but her romance with a male Warden shows she can enjoy a relationship until said romance and goals become mutually exclusive. Given a solid enough practical incentive, I don’t think it rules out a Leliana + Morrigan relationship.

(I am hoping that standard fanfic rules of there are no fixed sexual orientations apart from where it is overtly stated apply here)

Unless your point was that Morrigan’s outspoken attitude of My Career > Our Relationship would be offputting enough to Leliana that it would be a dealbreaker after her past experiences… which it might well be. Still, judging by Leliana’s comments about her ex-girlfriend of “We had good times though, and I look back on those fondly. Whatever happened after will never change the truth of the past.” and her penchant for beautiful, tragic endings to tales, I can see a case being made for Leliana believing that a relationship doesn’t have to last forever to be worthwhile or true.

What could be a greater compatibility problem between the two is that Leliana is turned off by mean responses. Treat her horribly in her conversations and end up with big disapproval hits. Sure, Leliana is often very perceptive when it comes to the other companions, and would recognize that Morrigan is insecure and naïve despite all her posturing and bluster, but whether she would put up with it is another matter. Leliana seems to find Morrigan’s prickliness pretty annoying in the banters they have together, and there’s only so much that a lovely neck and an impressive pair of features can make up for. Conversely, Morrigan gets minuses to approval when given frivolous or soppy answers. She would love Leliana’s “rumours about Orlesian Bards” conversation, but she wouldn’t have a great deal of patience with the rest.

Leliana was taught to recognize the emotional bonding one experiences through sex and twist that upon her will. Which I find allot scarier then anything Flemeth might have taught Morrigan

Of course it’s scarier! The way Leliana explains away and rationalizes the awful way she used and abused people “it’s kinder” and “it was necessary” and “it’s better than hurting them physically” was pretty chilling on my first playthrough. This was from an unhardened Leliana too. Hearing that, matter-of-fact and unremorseful, was pretty shocking considering that Marjolaine had done it to Leliana- one would think she would have a bit more empathy for her victims after walking a mile in their shoes. And after playing Leliana’s Song, where she gleefully chops up guards, it’s hard to see she had any aversion to violence when she was a bard.

But as you said, it is likely that Leliana did not so much choose to play the Orlesian Game, but that she chose Marjolaine. Her actions as a bard were influenced by the mask she wore- the mask she became- a mask she constructed to appeal to Marjolaine. “Everyone can be seduced by the right woman. The trick is predicting who she is, and becoming her.” And her new mask of pious Chantry sister is just as much of a construction, though her focus has shifted from Marjolaine to Andraste/the Maker.

To me, this is one of the most fascinating aspects of the character. That she has a survivor’s adaptability and an immense strength of will to change herself so drastically. Whether or not the kindness, concern for others, drive to do good deeds are constructions too or her “true self” is irrelevant- I’m going to repeat the quotation of “Have you never loved a tall tale, simply because it made your heart race”- they are things Leliana has chosen for herself, she chooses to become a good person, and of course- a master of masks- her goodness is flawlessly and passionately executed.

EDIT FOR:

Why do you think you have to have such a high approval to tent Leliana? She's afraid the warden might be doing what she used to do... "play the game."

I love this idea.  I'd love to read fic about this aspect of her.  

Modifié par Ollymandias, 16 décembre 2010 - 08:25 .

[Giggles_Manically]

[Yankee23]

Excuse the interruption but I just wanted to pass along that The Highever Born - Cousland Fan Group will be hosting a Male Cousland Contest! The contest is being organized by LadyDamodred and the rules are posted here. So get your Male Couslands ready and come joing us! There will be prizes!

You may now return to you regularly scheduled program.

Modifié par Yankee23, 17 décembre 2010 - 04:09 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Damn this thread keeps dying.