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[flexxdk]

KingJason13 wrote...

I was "Evil" on my second DAO playthrough... fully intended on ruining Andraste's ashes... was forced to kill Leilana... <sigh> ...ended up reloading and not ruiniing Andraste's ashes just so I could keep my beautiful seductress... only good deed that game!

I did that once. But only because I wanted to try out the Reaver spec.

Heavy risk.

BUT THE PRIIIZE...

...Is not worth it. And then I'm talking about the Reaver spec.

When I tried it, I facepalmed and reloaded to an older save, BEFORE meeting with Kolgrim. Funny thing is, the encounter somehow got bugged, which enabled me to walk PAST Kolgrim without initiating the cutscene!

Either way, I haven't forgiven myself for that.

[GSSAGE7]

KingJason13 wrote...

I was "Evil" on my second DAO playthrough... fully intended on ruining Andraste's ashes... was forced to kill Leilana... <sigh> ...ended up reloading and not ruiniing Andraste's ashes just so I could keep my beautiful seductress... only good deed that game!

If it makes you feel better, betraying Kolgrim, and then killing his God is pretty evil.
None of my Wardens defile the Ashes, all for different reasons.
The ones romancing Leliana don't want to dissapoint her.
The other good ones don't want to defile the ashes of the most holy woman in Thedas.
The evil ones remember what happened the last time they drank blood, and shoved a sword through Kolgrim's throat.

Modifié par GSSAGE7, 12 mai 2011 - 10:52 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

KingJason13 wrote...

I was "Evil" on my second DAO playthrough... fully intended on ruining Andraste's ashes... was forced to kill Leilana... <sigh> ...ended up reloading and not ruiniing Andraste's ashes just so I could keep my beautiful seductress... only good deed that game!

I did that just to get the stupid trophy once. Worst of all, I did it on my main playtrough. Seeing my Warden murder her lover like that... it stays with me forever.

Now, none of my playtroughs, even the evil ones, ruin the Ashes. Not just because of Leliana, mind you. Kolgrim's a damn lunatic the craziest of my Wardens wouldn't work with.

[bleetman]

For some reason, the time when I defiled the ashes for the sake of unlocking reaver spec, Wynne gave me the "did you think we wouldn't learn what you've done? I hope you fall to the darkspawn" speech afterwards and left. Leliana, for some reason, decided to respond with her usual astonishment over actually seeing and touching Andraste's ashes and going on about how holy they are.

Pretty much a win-win situation, really. So long, you preachy old lady. Don't let the utter indifference of the rest of the party hit you on the way out.

[GSSAGE7]

bleetman wrote...

For some reason, the time when I defiled the ashes for the sake of unlocking reaver spec, Wynne gave me the "did you think we wouldn't learn what you've done? I hope you fall to the darkspawn" speech afterwards and left. Leliana, for some reason, decided to respond with her usual astonishment over actually seeing and touching Andraste's ashes and going on about how holy they are.

Pretty much a win-win situation, really. So long, you preachy old lady. Don't let the utter indifference of the rest of the party hit you on the way out.

I've got to ask. How can someone love Leliana, and hate Wynne at the same time? They're different people, yes, but they are similiar enough that you shouldn't be able to have such wildly different opinions on them, at least in my head.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Leliana does not try to spoon feed "duty" down your throat unlike Wynne. I don't hate Wynne, and she does have her moments, but her nagging earned her the spot of my least favorite companion fairly quickly.

[Zjarcal]

GSSAGE7 wrote...
I've got to ask. How can someone love Leliana, and hate Wynne at the same time? They're different people, yes, but they are similiar enough that you shouldn't be able to have such wildly different opinions on them, at least in my head.

Is this a serious question?

I DESPISE Wynne while I love Leliana. As Drunk said, Leliana never shoves her beliefs down your throat, nor does she nag on you for having the gall of entering a romantic relationship. While Leliana and Wynne may share some beliefs, they differ enough on other subjects to make entirely possible to like one and hate the other.

Mind you, my problems with Wynne go beyond that (the blood mage confrontation being the catalyst for my hate towards her, even if the scene has to be restored in order to see it) and are well documented for those who've been visiting the forums over the past year.

[GSSAGE7]

Zjarcal wrote...

GSSAGE7 wrote...
I've got to ask. How can someone love Leliana, and hate Wynne at the same time? They're different people, yes, but they are similiar enough that you shouldn't be able to have such wildly different opinions on them, at least in my head.

Is this a serious question?

I DESPISE Wynne while I love Leliana. As Drunk said, Leliana never shoves her beliefs down your throat, nor does she nag on you for having the gall of entering a romantic relationship. While Leliana and Wynne may share some beliefs, they differ enough on other subjects to make entirely possible to like one and hate the other.

Mind you, my problems with Wynne go beyond that (the blood mage confrontation being the catalyst for my hate towards her, even if the scene has to be restored in order to see it) and are well documented for those who've been visiting the forums over the past year.

For starters, yes, it was a serious question.
But those are good reasons. Since I play the console version of Origins (and I'm too much of a coward to use anything that depletes my health, such as blood magic), I never saw that scene.
I kind of like Wynne, if only because of some of the banter she has with Alistair.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
 nor does she nag on you for having the gall of entering a romantic relationship.

Actually she does with a male romancing Morrigan (and I assume Zevran?), oddly enough for reasons very similar to what Wynne said.

But I think it's out of jealousy and not on principle, which makes it cute (and of course it's ego stroking, a male weakness).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mai 2011 - 02:14 .

[GSSAGE7]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
 nor does she nag on you for having the gall of entering a romantic relationship.

Actually she does with a male romancing Morrigan (and I assume Zevran?), oddly enough for reasons very similar to what Wynne said.

But I think it's out of jealousy and not on principle, which makes it cute (and of course it's ego stroking, a male weakness).

She does?
I know there's the jealous dialogue, but that's not quite the same. In addition, there's a "Morrigan must be lucky" convo, which doesn't seem too nagging, unless she's going to passive-agressive that I'm too thick to get the agressive. Which is entirely possible.

[KnightofPhoenix]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

She does?
I know there's the jealous dialogue, but that's not quite the same. In addition, there's a "Morrigan must be lucky" convo, which doesn't seem too nagging, unless she's going to passive-agressive that I'm too thick to get the agressive. Which is entirely possible.

Yes, she says that the Warden is the leader of the group and he can't afford to like one more than the other, because there might come a time when he has to decide between the well being of his love and that of the group, and he might abandon the group for Morrigan. Which is not too dissimilar from what Wynne says, except Leliana sounds more jealous than convinced.

And that's the first time. Then she has other dialogues that are not nagging.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mai 2011 - 02:27 .

[GSSAGE7]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

GSSAGE7 wrote...

She does?
I know there's the jealous dialogue, but that's not quite the same. In addition, there's a "Morrigan must be lucky" convo, which doesn't seem too nagging, unless she's going to passive-agressive that I'm too thick to get the agressive. Which is entirely possible.

Yes, she says that the Warden is the leader of the group and he can't afford to like one more than the other, because there might come a time when he has to decide between the well being of his love and that of the group, and he might abandon the group for Morrigan. Which is not too dissimilar from what Wynne says, except Leliana sounds more jealous than convinced.

And that's the first time. Then she has other dialogues that are not nagging.

Not only is it not dissimiliar, but I honestly thought you were talking about Wynne's "talk" until that part about "not being dissimiliar from what Wynne says".
I've never gotten that though. Do you know the general conditions to get that?

Modifié par GSSAGE7, 14 mai 2011 - 02:36 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

GSSAGE7 wrote...
I've never gotten that though. Do you know the general conditions to get that?

Not really sure, though I've gotten it several times (well with my one character). Maybe it needs to have a romance initiated with Leliana as well? I don't know.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
 nor does she nag on you for having the gall of entering a romantic relationship.

Actually she does with a male romancing Morrigan (and I assume Zevran?), oddly enough for reasons very similar to what Wynne said.

But I think it's out of jealousy and not on principle, which makes it cute (and of course it's ego stroking, a male weakness).

But that's a jealousy dialogue because you flirted with her at some point (unintentional or not). She will also mention Zevran if you flirted with her beforehand.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Not really sure, though I've gotten it several times (well with my one character). Maybe it needs to have a romance initiated with Leliana as well? I don't know. 

EDIT: Ok, now I'm confused, are you talking about the standard jealousy dialogue or another one? Hmm, gotta check the toolset.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 14 mai 2011 - 02:57 .

[Zjarcal]

Wonderful, my toolset isn't reading dialogue anymore! :crying:

So, does Leliana get mad if you tell her it's none of her business?

For instance, Morrigan also has a friendly dialogue if you're in a romance with Leliana, and she actually gets a bit upset if you tell her to ****** off, but unlike Wynne, she doesn't push the issue or treat you like a child for not wanting to listen her "advice".

Anyway, as I stated above, while the "love advice" from Wynne bothers me, it's not the real reason why I hate her.

[GSSAGE7]

Zjarcal wrote...
So, does Leliana get mad if you tell her it's none of her business?

Well, it does seem in character for her to get mad at that, but it likely depends on context.

Zjarcal wrote...
Anyway, as I stated above, while the "love advice" from Wynne bothers me, it's not the real reason why I hate her.

My City Elf got a talk from Wynne that none of the keep was getting sleep because of her and Zevran's antics.
But they hadn't slept together yet. Bug, oversight, or does Wynne have an overactive imagination?
You be the judge!

Modifié par GSSAGE7, 14 mai 2011 - 03:00 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
So, does Leliana get mad if you tell her it's none of her business?

I don't know, I never tried I am too polite

Yea I know it's different, but the wording was very similar.

[Zjarcal]

[quote]GSSAGE7 wrote...
For starters, yes, it was a serious question.
[/quote]

First off, sorry about that bit. the DA2 forums have me on the edge lately so I get a bit standoffish with comments.

[quote]GSSAGE7 wrote...

[quote]Zjarcal wrote...
So, does Leliana get mad if you tell her it's none of her business?
[/quote] Well, it does seem in character for her to get mad at that, but it likely depends on context.
[/quote]

It's more about "how mad" she gets. As I said, Morrigan also gets a bit mad if you tell her it's none of her business, but she doesn't get offended like Wynne does.

[quote]Zjarcal wrote...
Anyway, as I stated above, while the "love advice" from Wynne bothers me, it's not the real reason why I hate her.
[/quote] My City Elf got a talk from Wynne that none of the keep was getting sleep because of her and Zevran's antics.
But they hadn't slept together yet. Bug, oversight, or does Wynne have an overactive imagination?
You be the judge!
[/quote]

That's a bit of an oversight. The game assumes that once you've started the romance with Zev you've already slept together. Of course, it makes Wynne look even worse. 

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
So, does Leliana get mad if you tell her it's none of her business?

I don't know, I never tried I am too polite

Yea I know it's different, but the wording was very similar.

Hehe, politeness is your trademark. xD

Again, my point there was that when you tell Wynne to ****** off she berates you as if you're a spoiled child or something. I doubt that Leliana has the same reaction. But damn it, I want to see that dialogue... stupid toolset.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Zjar, would you mind telling me about or linking me a vid of Wynne's blood mage confrontation? Either I don't remember it seeing it before, or I never did. I tried looking around, but found nothing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Hehe, politeness is your trademark. xD

Again, my point there was that when you tell Wynne to ****** off she berates you as if you're a spoiled child or something. I doubt that Leliana has the same reaction. But damn it, I want to see that dialogue... stupid toolset.

Starts at 3:00

I did not get the convo with the exact same conditions (I got different options than those 3). The PC does tell Leliana to shove off and hehe, she's adorable. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mai 2011 - 03:23 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Hehe, politeness is your trademark. xD

Again, my point there was that when you tell Wynne to ****** off she berates you as if you're a spoiled child or something. I doubt that Leliana has the same reaction. But damn it, I want to see that dialogue... stupid toolset.

Starts at 3:00

I did not get the convo with the exact same conditions (I got different options than those 3). The PC does tell Leliana to shove off and hehe, she's adorable. 

OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!

I don't care if this makes me sound like a biased fangirl, but Leliana is too adorable to be annoying. :wub:

But seriously, that's very similar to what Morrigan says if you tell her to ****** off (and way better than what Wynne says), so it doesn't really bother me. That's all I wanted to know.

Thanks for the link!

@Drunk

Here you go, the video includes the various options, first fighting her and then persuading her.

This content has to be restored with a mod. It's all in the game, it was just dropped out for reasons unknown, the most likely one being a game breaking issue if you kill everyone there (the Landsmeet won't trigger in that case).

Modifié par Zjarcal, 14 mai 2011 - 03:42 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

@Zjar

Thousand thanks.

Ugh, what a b*tch. I hate people who do that. What do you care how I saved the bloody tower, especially when no innocents were harmed by my magic? Um... blood magic is bad therefore you bad.

Lawful Stupid at it's best. Kinda wish they'd leave that in the game, though, yeah, it does seem to cause some problems.

[bleetman]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Um... blood magic is bad therefore you bad.

Yep! Wicked, sinful blood mages, and all that.

My problem with Wynne is fairly straight forward: she's got a view of the way the world works based on, I'd wager, no personal experience of it whatsoever, and if you don't agree you're just plain wrong you ignorant child.

Oh how I wish she was more like Kreia, inappropriate as my inevitable personal white-haired-old-lady comparisons may be.

Modifié par bleetman, 14 mai 2011 - 04:48 .

[GSSAGE7]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Hehe, politeness is your trademark. xD

Again, my point there was that when you tell Wynne to ****** off she berates you as if you're a spoiled child or something. I doubt that Leliana has the same reaction. But damn it, I want to see that dialogue... stupid toolset.

Starts at 3:00

I did not get the convo with the exact same conditions (I got different options than those 3). The PC does tell Leliana to shove off and hehe, she's adorable. 

I actually feel bad just for watching that.