Does the warden fit into it? What end was the warden even a means to?
I don't really see how her involvement with the warden is related to her involvement to the chantry, unless there's something we don't know yet they seem independent of one another. If anything I'd assume her involvement with the warden helped her realize she could do more than simply remain a sister in the chantry (something the blight probably taught her if the warden didn't), so I don't see any reason not to believe her relationship with the warden (whatever it may be) is sincere.
The only alternatives I can come up with if she was acting as a chantry agent all along are that the chantry knew something would happen to the warden, took an interest in it (for some reason), and arranged to have someone try and infiltrate; or they wanted someone close to the potential next commander of the Fereldan grey wardens. But both of those require massive leaps of logic that make the whole thing pretty shaky, plus they just don't make a whole lot of sense.
The Bard from Orlais - A Leliana Appreciation thread
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Zeleen
, juin 04 2010 06:33
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#9527
Posté 16 octobre 2011 - 07:17
Lenimph
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Leliana actually likes Alistair and if your in a love triangle with her and him she practically thinks your scum for playing with his feelings like that. You actually get approval for choosing him over her... APPROVAL. So DSC only reflects this IMO, it really has nothing to do with Leliana seeking out to be with the "power head" of the group.
I pretty much agree with what nerdage said about her involvement with the warden helping her realize she could do more, and it really having nothing to do with her working for the Chantry.
The biggest factor of Leliana working for the Chantry is Dorothea, regardless of whether Leliana goes on a journey with the warden or not. After becoming the new Divine she probably remembered Leliana and her potential well and decided she would be a good asset to the Chantry's seedier operations. (Being f*cked over my Marjolaine really brings people together after all)
So where does the Warden fit into it? I really think there's enough wiggle room for our mind canons to decide that. I do believe during their "time offs" Leliana and my Warden spent their time together.
I pretty much agree with what nerdage said about her involvement with the warden helping her realize she could do more, and it really having nothing to do with her working for the Chantry.
The biggest factor of Leliana working for the Chantry is Dorothea, regardless of whether Leliana goes on a journey with the warden or not. After becoming the new Divine she probably remembered Leliana and her potential well and decided she would be a good asset to the Chantry's seedier operations. (Being f*cked over my Marjolaine really brings people together after all)
So where does the Warden fit into it? I really think there's enough wiggle room for our mind canons to decide that. I do believe during their "time offs" Leliana and my Warden spent their time together.
Modifié par Lenimph, 16 octobre 2011 - 07:17 .
#9528
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 12:52
csfteeeer
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nerdage wrote...
The only alternatives I can come up with if she was acting as a chantry agent all along are that the chantry knew something would happen to the warden, took an interest in it (for some reason), and arranged to have someone try and infiltrate; or they wanted someone close to the potential next commander of the Fereldan grey wardens. But both of those require massive leaps of logic that make the whole thing pretty shaky, plus they just don't make a whole lot of sense.
the only explenation i can think of is the possibility of the chantry knowing about the warden, and expecting that he/she would succeed, thus possibly knowing what the wardens would be doing.
But, then again like you said, there are so many possible assumptions that it doesn't make any sense.
#9529
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 01:08
MKDAWUSS
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csfteeeer wrote...
nerdage wrote...
The only alternatives I can come up with if she was acting as a chantry agent all along are that the chantry knew something would happen to the warden, took an interest in it (for some reason), and arranged to have someone try and infiltrate; or they wanted someone close to the potential next commander of the Fereldan grey wardens. But both of those require massive leaps of logic that make the whole thing pretty shaky, plus they just don't make a whole lot of sense.
the only explenation i can think of is the possibility of the chantry knowing about the warden, and expecting that he/she would succeed, thus possibly knowing what the wardens would be doing.
But, then again like you said, there are so many possible assumptions that it doesn't make any sense.
Not just that, but she left the Chantry the day before the Warden arrives. Who the hell has that sort of inside information, considering the people who knew when the Warden would show up would be those in accompaniment and Flemeth? Only 2 people (3 if you want to include the dog) knew that the Wardens were even alive, and their entry into Lothering was their first contact with mainstream civilization.
But then again, quite a few characters seem to have access to inside information that borders on conspiracy theory levels...
#9530
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 01:35
GSSAGE7
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When you think about the people Alistair traveled with in Darkspawn chronicles, Alistair kind of sucked at recruiting companions on his own. He just let Wynne and Zevran go, and Sten didn't seem to get captured, and Oghren was exiled before he got there. Leliana's romantic options are Alistair and Morrigan, both of which are completely straight.
Moving on from Darkspawn Chronicles, I always assumed that becoming the Divine's agent was an unrelated event. In my head, Leliana got the offer after being a bit more well known, considering how in DA2, Hawke remembers Leliana by name. Dorethea probably went "Oh yeah, I remember her. Let's see how this goes..."
Edit: So I was playing through Legacy again, and I heard a funny little banter between Fenris and Carver. Apparently, Snarky!Hawke comments on Carver having a crush on "that red-headed lay sister with the accent," a fact that Carver doesn't deny. As much as I dislike the man, I suppose he has good taste.
Moving on from Darkspawn Chronicles, I always assumed that becoming the Divine's agent was an unrelated event. In my head, Leliana got the offer after being a bit more well known, considering how in DA2, Hawke remembers Leliana by name. Dorethea probably went "Oh yeah, I remember her. Let's see how this goes..."
Edit: So I was playing through Legacy again, and I heard a funny little banter between Fenris and Carver. Apparently, Snarky!Hawke comments on Carver having a crush on "that red-headed lay sister with the accent," a fact that Carver doesn't deny. As much as I dislike the man, I suppose he has good taste.
Modifié par GSSAGE7, 17 octobre 2011 - 06:15 .
#9531
Posté 17 octobre 2011 - 10:29
csfteeeer
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MKDAWUSS wrote...
csfteeeer wrote...
nerdage wrote...
The only alternatives I can come up with if she was acting as a chantry agent all along are that the chantry knew something would happen to the warden, took an interest in it (for some reason), and arranged to have someone try and infiltrate; or they wanted someone close to the potential next commander of the Fereldan grey wardens. But both of those require massive leaps of logic that make the whole thing pretty shaky, plus they just don't make a whole lot of sense.
the only explenation i can think of is the possibility of the chantry knowing about the warden, and expecting that he/she would succeed, thus possibly knowing what the wardens would be doing.
But, then again like you said, there are so many possible assumptions that it doesn't make any sense.
Not just that, but she left the Chantry the day before the Warden arrives. Who the hell has that sort of inside information, considering the people who knew when the Warden would show up would be those in accompaniment and Flemeth? Only 2 people (3 if you want to include the dog) knew that the Wardens were even alive, and their entry into Lothering was their first contact with mainstream civilization.
But then again, quite a few characters seem to have access to inside information that borders on conspiracy theory levels...
Well the only character who could have had the any clue about the warden's survival was Loghain, and even then, how the hell would he knew?
the other one would be Wynne, but she wouldn't say it to anybody knowing the way the wardens are looked because of the "Treason".
Although, Aveline also survived, could it have been her the one who told the Chantry?
i still doubt it giving that she knew about Loghain's betrayal.
So all in all, the only ones who actually KNEW about the warden's survival was Flemeth and Morrigan, and why on earth would they reveal this? it makes no sense.
So yeah, if they do end up making the Twist, they better have a Good (and i mean, GOOOOOD) explanation, because the way it seems right now, it looks like complete and utter non sense.
#9532
Posté 20 octobre 2011 - 01:29
Yuqi
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I guess we will have to wait and see. Maybe she could be covering for the Warden, who knows. I still smell something amiss, or maybe I'm thinking too much.
#9533
Posté 20 octobre 2011 - 10:22
PurpleWhisper
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The story with Leliana goes like this in my head:
The Warden beats the blight and goes down in history. Leliana has already had a colourful past and has no doubt met who knows what kind of people before eventually taking refuge in Lothering and the Chantry. Her reputation is boosted by her involvement with the Warden and in helping to kill the Archedemon. The Hero and Leliana travel, as planned. They continue to help people along the way etc. The Chantry have their eye on Leliana as a potential Seeker due to her obvious skills, experiance and devotion to the Maker and eventually the Grand Cleric asks her to meet with her. Leliana makes the trip there while the Hero travels to Ameranthine and goes through the Awakening story. Leliana and the Warden are reunited and they spend one more year in and around Ferelden. Leliana possibly does the odd good deeds for the Chantry, relays the odd bit of useful information etc as the two continue their adventures. Perhaps there is another meeting or two with the Grand Cleric.
Eventually the Warden and Leliana travel to Orlais. The Warden finds some peace in being not so well known and perhaps takes time to learn more of the Order from elder Orlesian Wardens. Leli's career with the Seekers takes off after she has spent time (maybe with the help of the Warden) fighting battles and righting wrongs in Orlais. Its possible the pair made a life for themselves in Orlais. The warden working with the Order there, and Leliana working for the divine. Warden and Chantry business probably do cross over often enough that the two may be able to work together sometimes on their respective missions/jobs. If Leli is truly to provide the Divine with knowledge of *everything* going on, it would indeed help to be in contact with the Wardens who spend time fighting darkspawn (creature tied in with the chantry's religion) and remaining vigilent. The Chantry and Wardens are probably the two most important groups of power after all.
By Act 3 of DA2 something occurs that requires the Hero to return to Denerim by order of the King or Queen. There is a hint something important is happening when the Wardens show up as the city of Kirkwall burns in the Qunari attack. By Act 3 perhaps whatever it is that had the Wardens in such a hurry has now reached its peak.
In my mind the Warden and Leli leave Orlais together, the Warden goes straight to Denerim while Leli makes a stop in Kirkwall first so she can report to the Divine, as requested.
Finally, as events unfold and Thedas becomes chaotic Leli and the Warden perhaps have to go on seperate missions. However this time they are not reunited and the Hero goes missing along with the Champion.
I would love for Leli and Isabela to team up to find their respective partners again. I could imagine DA3 beginning with Hawke and the Warden meeting. Then maybe having them decide that as both a leaders with influence and certain skills it would be best for them to break off into two. Perhaps then play part of the game as the Warden taking care of one mission/war/problemand part of the game as Hawke taking on another mission. They basically work together to bring the world back under control, just apart from one another. They could comunicate with letter maybe or arrange to meet up at points in the story.
...I love Dragon Age....but it makes my brain ache with all the possibilities. Its more like a great book that I don't want to put down than a game...
The Warden beats the blight and goes down in history. Leliana has already had a colourful past and has no doubt met who knows what kind of people before eventually taking refuge in Lothering and the Chantry. Her reputation is boosted by her involvement with the Warden and in helping to kill the Archedemon. The Hero and Leliana travel, as planned. They continue to help people along the way etc. The Chantry have their eye on Leliana as a potential Seeker due to her obvious skills, experiance and devotion to the Maker and eventually the Grand Cleric asks her to meet with her. Leliana makes the trip there while the Hero travels to Ameranthine and goes through the Awakening story. Leliana and the Warden are reunited and they spend one more year in and around Ferelden. Leliana possibly does the odd good deeds for the Chantry, relays the odd bit of useful information etc as the two continue their adventures. Perhaps there is another meeting or two with the Grand Cleric.
Eventually the Warden and Leliana travel to Orlais. The Warden finds some peace in being not so well known and perhaps takes time to learn more of the Order from elder Orlesian Wardens. Leli's career with the Seekers takes off after she has spent time (maybe with the help of the Warden) fighting battles and righting wrongs in Orlais. Its possible the pair made a life for themselves in Orlais. The warden working with the Order there, and Leliana working for the divine. Warden and Chantry business probably do cross over often enough that the two may be able to work together sometimes on their respective missions/jobs. If Leli is truly to provide the Divine with knowledge of *everything* going on, it would indeed help to be in contact with the Wardens who spend time fighting darkspawn (creature tied in with the chantry's religion) and remaining vigilent. The Chantry and Wardens are probably the two most important groups of power after all.
By Act 3 of DA2 something occurs that requires the Hero to return to Denerim by order of the King or Queen. There is a hint something important is happening when the Wardens show up as the city of Kirkwall burns in the Qunari attack. By Act 3 perhaps whatever it is that had the Wardens in such a hurry has now reached its peak.
In my mind the Warden and Leli leave Orlais together, the Warden goes straight to Denerim while Leli makes a stop in Kirkwall first so she can report to the Divine, as requested.
Finally, as events unfold and Thedas becomes chaotic Leli and the Warden perhaps have to go on seperate missions. However this time they are not reunited and the Hero goes missing along with the Champion.
I would love for Leli and Isabela to team up to find their respective partners again. I could imagine DA3 beginning with Hawke and the Warden meeting. Then maybe having them decide that as both a leaders with influence and certain skills it would be best for them to break off into two. Perhaps then play part of the game as the Warden taking care of one mission/war/problemand part of the game as Hawke taking on another mission. They basically work together to bring the world back under control, just apart from one another. They could comunicate with letter maybe or arrange to meet up at points in the story.
...I love Dragon Age....but it makes my brain ache with all the possibilities. Its more like a great book that I don't want to put down than a game...
#9534
Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 02:52
GSSAGE7
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There's one thing that makes me think that she was only with the Warden of her own free will.
She can leave the party if she dislikes you enough, and kill you as well. If she was on a mission from the chantry, she wouldn't leave if the Warden was a selfish bastard.
She can leave the party if she dislikes you enough, and kill you as well. If she was on a mission from the chantry, she wouldn't leave if the Warden was a selfish bastard.
#9535
Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 10:53
Nerdage
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Well, it could be that the warden being a selfish, ruthless bastard meant (s)he wasn't suitable for the chantry's goals.
Really though, if Leliana were a chantry agent she'd have been better off introducing herself as one, to a grey warden looking for allies "I'm a secret agent and I want to help you" is a much more attractive offer than "I'm a chantry sister and I receive visions from the maker to go with you", especially to a dalish or a dwarf to whom she must look insane. The notion that the warden might not trust an agent is moot if your cover story is so implausible it's even more likely to put them off you.
And Purple; sounds good, makes me wish they weren't so vague about what happens after Awakening. Plus, the idea of Leliana and Anders working together is quite amusing. Considering how amazing Bioware's been with getting companion voice actors back for DA2 addons seeing Leliana + DA2 romance (+ DAO romance?) teaming up to look for Hawke and the warden could be a possibility, which I'd love to see.
Really though, if Leliana were a chantry agent she'd have been better off introducing herself as one, to a grey warden looking for allies "I'm a secret agent and I want to help you" is a much more attractive offer than "I'm a chantry sister and I receive visions from the maker to go with you", especially to a dalish or a dwarf to whom she must look insane. The notion that the warden might not trust an agent is moot if your cover story is so implausible it's even more likely to put them off you.
And Purple; sounds good, makes me wish they weren't so vague about what happens after Awakening. Plus, the idea of Leliana and Anders working together is quite amusing. Considering how amazing Bioware's been with getting companion voice actors back for DA2 addons seeing Leliana + DA2 romance (+ DAO romance?) teaming up to look for Hawke and the warden could be a possibility, which I'd love to see.
Modifié par nerdage, 21 octobre 2011 - 10:53 .
#9536
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 12:33
csfteeeer
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that's quite a good story Purple.
It all seems to fit and make sense.
I just wish they would just canonize the warden's actions and perhaps Race(not necessarilly gender), it would make everything easier, cause a GOOD writer knows, the one writting the story, is the WRITER, not the player.
Details can be left to the player but at the end, it's the writer's story the one that should matter.
BioWare just doesn't get this, and they suffer for it.
It all seems to fit and make sense.
I just wish they would just canonize the warden's actions and perhaps Race(not necessarilly gender), it would make everything easier, cause a GOOD writer knows, the one writting the story, is the WRITER, not the player.
Details can be left to the player but at the end, it's the writer's story the one that should matter.
BioWare just doesn't get this, and they suffer for it.
#9537
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 12:49
MKDAWUSS
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csfteeeer wrote...
that's quite a good story Purple.
It all seems to fit and make sense.
I just wish they would just canonize the warden's actions and perhaps Race(not necessarilly gender), it would make everything easier, cause a GOOD writer knows, the one writting the story, is the WRITER, not the player.
Details can be left to the player but at the end, it's the writer's story the one that should matter.
BioWare just doesn't get this, and they suffer for it.
The interesting thing about DAO is that no matter what you do, you eventually reach a plausible common point down the road. The only part where it gets tricky is who was placed on the two thrones (though that can be negated with heirlessness) and the companions. While some of their stories can stand without the Warden, others don't (IMO).
#9538
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 05:42
Jedi Master of Orion
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Does anyone know the extent the import bugs in DA 2? My second Warden was one that romanced Leliana but I also played through Awakening with him, which messed up the romance flags or something didn't it? I hear they fixed it in the latest patch, but wouldn't I still need to play the whole game again from the beginning to have in register in the future? In Act 3 I installed a mod that suppossedly fixed the issue but that was in an already begun game plus I never actually downloaded Sebastian so I never got the chance to talk to Leliana about my Warden one way or the other in that one quest.
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 octobre 2011 - 05:45 .
#9539
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 07:06
csfteeeer
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it has not been fixed from what i understand.
i haven't Played the actual campaign of DA2 in months, the only thing i've played has been it's DLCs, so i'm not the best one to answer this.
However, there is a mod that Fixes this(if you're a PC gamer that is), but i can't remember where it is....
I'll get back to you when i find it.
i haven't Played the actual campaign of DA2 in months, the only thing i've played has been it's DLCs, so i'm not the best one to answer this.
However, there is a mod that Fixes this(if you're a PC gamer that is), but i can't remember where it is....
I'll get back to you when i find it.
#9540
Posté 25 octobre 2011 - 01:46
Its Warden Commander to YOU
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My favorite From DAO.
#9541
Posté 26 octobre 2011 - 05:16
Yuqi
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DO you think the romance will carry over to DA3?
#9542
Posté 26 octobre 2011 - 06:14
Its Warden Commander to YOU
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Yuqi wrote...
DO you think the romance will carry over to DA3?
Yes.
Do i think we'll get anything interesting (other than "Oh, i remember the warden... i loved him/her"), i honestly don't know, i don't think so.
#9543
Posté 26 octobre 2011 - 09:28
Lenimph
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I think Leliana will play an important role in DA3 so I think the romance import will matter in DA3 more then DA2 but I won't hold my breath.
#9544
Posté 27 octobre 2011 - 02:55
Yuqi
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Lenimph wrote...
I think Leliana will play an important role in DA3 so I think the romance import will matter in DA3 more then DA2 but I won't hold my breath.
I don't know how they will handel it. morrigan/Lelliana are in a sense on opposing sides. I half expect some evil witch/being to come and say "I killed your warden" Lol.
It's odd how all the LI in origins, eventually become people of power and influence, to some degree. Coincidence maybe? All of them are capable of hiding the Warden.
#9545
Posté 01 novembre 2011 - 10:47
Dave of Canada
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Curious, what does romanced Leliana say if you commit the Ultimate Sacrifice?
#9546
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 02:23
csfteeeer
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Dave of Canada wrote...
Curious, what does romanced Leliana say if you commit the Ultimate Sacrifice?
"He/She was.... Dear to my Heart"
yeah...
not much, but something.
#9547
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 04:11
Dave of Canada
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Damn. Debating if I should do it or just send Loghain off to his death, assuming the romance will play any role in the future.
#9548
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 06:04
csfteeeer
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Huh....
I'm sorry, what's the connection?
I'm sorry, what's the connection?
#9549
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 06:31
Yuqi
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csfteeeer wrote...
Dave of Canada wrote...
Curious, what does romanced Leliana say if you commit the Ultimate Sacrifice?
"He/She was.... Dear to my Heart"
yeah...
not much, but something.
Really?
From my direct origins U.S import, in DA2 lelliana still says;
"She is dear to my heart.."
I have never heard her say; " She was dear to my heart"
Modifié par Yuqi, 02 novembre 2011 - 06:33 .
#9550
Posté 02 novembre 2011 - 07:19
csfteeeer
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Yuqi wrote...
csfteeeer wrote...
Dave of Canada wrote...
Curious, what does romanced Leliana say if you commit the Ultimate Sacrifice?
"He/She was.... Dear to my Heart"
yeah...
not much, but something.
Really?
From my direct origins U.S import, in DA2 lelliana still says;
"She is dear to my heart.."
I have never heard her say; " She was dear to my heart"
That's what i got the first time i saw her(which is where i promptly realized that had transfered a wrong character*Facepalm*), i'm pretty sure she said "Was".
