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[Master Shiori]

SirEmilCrane wrote...


Sounds like a decent fellow. This innate belief that the customer is always right always pisses me off

I think Blizzard said it best with their "Customer isn't always right, but he's not always wrong either".

Most of the time people on these forums will complain about things that border on ridiculous. However, there are moments when concerns are valid and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

I remember the topic about dialogue system in Awakening and how it relates to the old dialogue in Origins. Some people complained and even insulted Bioware because of the change. Others voiced their opinions that weren't rude, but actually pointed out the flaws in the new system compared to old one. 
Both groups got shot down with "if you don't like it feel free to move on to something else". In first case it was deserved, but in the second completely uncalled for.
A simple "dialogue system is a work-in-progress and will likely be subject to change in the future" would have been a lot better in this case.

Sometimes you just have to accept that customers like certain aspects of your product (in this case characters or story elements) and want to see more of them. Even though you didn't originally plan on using those things again you would be wise to take note and adapt to the demand rather than stubbornly keep marching in your original direction.

[SirEmilCrane]

Deadeas wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...
(looking at YOU Overlord)

Should I not get that DLC?

It was meh.

I play ME2 for the characters as much as the story. Without some good character voicing it just seems boring.

[Deadeas]

epoch_ wrote...
How long was it?

Rough estimate would place it around 2-3 hours. Still, lack of teammate dialogue killed it for me...All you ever hear is Shepard and the two NPCs. Also, chainguns murder the Hammerhead.

[epoch_]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

Deadeas wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...
(looking at YOU Overlord)

Should I not get that DLC?

It was meh.

I play ME2 for the characters as much as the story. Without some good character voicing it just seems boring.

Well ME2 failed because the characters were the story.

[SirEmilCrane]

Deadeas wrote...

epoch_ wrote...
How long was it?

Rough estimate would place it around 2-3 hours. Still, lack of teammate dialogue killed it for me...All you ever hear is Shepard and the two NPCs. Also, chainguns murder the Hammerhead.

Chainguns? Who uses chainguns?

Also, I haven't played ME2 in months, probably won't for a while

[SirEmilCrane]

epoch_ wrote...

Well ME2 failed because the characters were the story.

I wouldn't say failed, I liked it

[Deadeas]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

Deadeas wrote...

epoch_ wrote...
How long was it?

Rough estimate would place it around 2-3 hours. Still, lack of teammate dialogue killed it for me...All you ever hear is Shepard and the two NPCs. Also, chainguns murder the Hammerhead.

Chainguns? Who uses chainguns?
Also, I haven't played ME2 in months, probably won't for a while.

Cerberus turrets use chainguns...Or at least the closest approximation for Mass Effect.

I agree with you about not playing...It's just not interesting to me any longer.

[adneate]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Well ME2 failed because the characters were the story.

I wouldn't say failed, I liked it

Me too, I thought it was way better than ME1.

[SirEmilCrane]

adneate wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

epoch_ wrote...
Well ME2 failed because the characters were the story.

I wouldn't say failed, I liked it

Me too, I thought it was way better than ME1.

That being said I think I like DA better.

[epoch_]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Well ME2 failed because the characters were the story.

I wouldn't say failed, I liked it

Failed was too strong. I should have said inferior to ME1.

[SirEmilCrane]

epoch_ wrote...

Failed was too strong. I should have said inferior to ME1.

I liked them both. The real thing I don't BW is capable of making a bad game, but us fans do hold them to an exacting standard.

[Deadeas]

I know I like DA better. For one, I can mod the game and make it more re-playable. Two, the squad actually has banter and interacts with each other.

[SirEmilCrane]

Deadeas wrote...

I know I like DA better. For one, I can mod the game and make it more re-playable. Two, the squad actually has banter and interacts with each other.

This, the squad actually feels like a living brathing unit. They know each other, have jokes, like or dislike each other.

ME2 was more Shep, tali and Garrus like this, with everyone else just sort of coming along for the ride.

Leliana calling Sten a sofite
Alistair begging Wynne to fix his socks
Zevran's "Ah-ha! Progress!"
Oghren

This is all win

[adneate]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

Deadeas wrote...

I know I like DA better. For one, I can mod the game and make it more re-playable. Two, the squad actually has banter and interacts with each other.

This, the squad actually feels like a living brathing unit. They know each other, have jokes, like or dislike each other.

ME2 was more Shep, tali and Garrus like this, with everyone else just sort of coming along for the ride.

Leliana calling Sten a sofite
Alistair begging Wynne to fix his socks
Zevran's "Ah-ha! Progress!"
Oghren

This is all win

Indeed the team in DA felt more like your friends, though I thought the team in Mass Effect 1 was just as weak as the ME2 team in terms of player attachement. I never really felt like I was close with any of them really, so it felt like I was the super badass commander and everyone else was along for the ride reveling in the glory that was Space Jack Bauer.

[SirEmilCrane]

adneate wrote...


Indeed the team in DA felt more like your friends, though I thought the team in Mass Effect 1 was just as weak as the ME2 team in terms of player attachement. I never really felt like I was close with any of them really, so it felt like I was the super badass commander and everyone else was along for the ride reveling in the glory that was Space Jack Bauer.

ME1 was a bit like that yes. Come ME2 and Tali and Garrus are now your friends but now you have all these new people reveling in your glory.

In DA the characters really developed these strong relationships, and even charged a bit.

Leliana and Alistair became harder. Morrigan defrosted a bit. Sten became a person and not a force of nature. Oghren went through a lot of development (which was then suqsequently destroyed in Awakenings (or so I'm told).

[ejoslin]

Just an FYI for guys who romance Leliana... One of her flags was bugged and caused a response that males at adore should get instead to go to a female. The major problem with this was then that men at adore + got the friendship response (when you ask her if she ever felt the same about anyone else).

It was caused by an incorrectly coded flag. I fixed it, and one person reported to me that it works as intended. Females no longer get the line (it's a good line too, though the default line for females is good as well). IF interested, I have the fix up at ZDF's page under "optional" files (genpt_leliana_main_script_repair). My main concern is I don't know where else this flag is used. But it's clearly marked, and it looks like someone just did a sloppy cut-and-paste job.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 juin 2010 - 12:08 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I really wish they had delayed DA being released until March, instead of November. I really wonder how many more things could be fixed, or what could have been added,

[Jestina]

Leli caught my male Warden wading through Morrigan's swamp.  I almost felt bad about lying to her about it. :innocent:

[Giggles_Manically]

Dragon Age is a much better RPG than Mass Effect. I never feel like Shepard things that should get me bugged all I get is meh. However in Dragon Age things really can hit you.



Mainly seeing Tamlen was like getting slammed in the chest.

[Jestina]

Yes, the relationship building in ME just feels rushed.

[OldMan91]

I fixed it, and one person reported to me that it works as intended.

Yup, it's great to see that it works. As you've said the flag may have been used elsewhere, so i'll keep an eye out next time I start up DA.

[ejoslin]

OldMan91 wrote...

I fixed it, and one person reported to me that it works as intended.

Yup, it's great to see that it works. As you've said the flag may have been used elsewhere, so i'll keep an eye out next time I start up DA.

Thank you so much! I always am uncomfortable releasing things I can't test, but it really is a shame that men don't get that line.  I figured releasing it with a warning is far better than not having it out there.  My guess is it isn't used anywhere else -- I did look at the romance lines and didn't see it, but my eyes start to cross after looking at the database too long.

Edit: And seriously, thank you everyone who have told me about her problems.  I wonder how some of the romance bugs really made it past the testers.  I know during testing a lot of dialog was probably being esc through towards the end, but still. I often wonder if stuff was being broken as various people tried to fix other things.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 juin 2010 - 01:56 .

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I really wish they had delayed DA being released until March, instead of November. I really wonder how many more things could be fixed, or what could have been added,

A delay would have meant nothing, they ran out of money. With no money they can't add anything or do any QA, the game was done for months before the release. They delayed it only to get the console ports done, EA put the money up for that but they didn't give any more to Bioware.

[Giggles_Manically]

adneate wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I really wish they had delayed DA being released until March, instead of November. I really wonder how many more things could be fixed, or what could have been added,

A delay would have meant nothing, they ran out of money. With no money they can't add anything or do any QA, the game was done for months before the release. They delayed it only to get the console ports done, EA put the money up for that but they didn't give any more to Bioware.

I thought it went the EA wanted Dragon Age out before the Christmas season instead. Although I can see how they went over budget on it.

[Zeleen]

Helloooooooooooo.. I will be so glad when this week is over... hopefully my hours will be more manageable and I'll be able to play more.. gonna get caught up on the thread.. so will probably have a lot of posts.. seeing as I may be the only one here at the moment