103 réponses à ce sujet

[kidbd15]

They don't fit into the storyline. I think most people agree. But I also think most people don't care.

[Tven0]

nikki191 wrote...

its just a fix for gameplay rather than lore.. when you find weapons with only thermal clips being used on a ship thats been crashed for a decade well its a blatent " I hope people wont notice we cant be bothered making things completely lore friendly and most players wont care enough for it to matter anyway"

Thank you Nikki! That is precisely the point im trying to make. Games are trying to present themselves in a mature way, and trying to be accepted into the mainstream. And yet, when continuity errors like this occur at the start of a game, even a very small error - and the immersion is ruined. Designers are lazy, and players don't care about the worlds they play in. They just accept whatever crap gets thrown at them by the designers and accept it instead of challenge it - challenging things is how you make better games.

[ChanceRandom]

JKoopman wrote...

ChanceRandom wrote...

Why are you looking for reality in a Sci-Fi GAME. For the love of all thats holy this is just rediculous. And the hardest part I have is the fact that you CAN accept the idea that a small cube of matter can produce INFINITE ammunition. I mean really dude!! Srsly? SRSLY? Even if the gun could produce a bullet for every molecule of matter in the cube, it would have to at some point run out of matterial to make into bullets. They wanted to introduce an ammo system into the game. This made it feel more real to me than the "ZOMG MY GUNZ RUN HAWT MUST W8 FER COOLZDOWN!!" Please for the love of sanity people stop nitpicking. ITS A GAME. No one is gonna die because you have to change clips instead of waiting for CDs.

No one ever said that the ammo blocks had infinite ammo, so that's a straw man argument. The ammo blocks mearly had sufficient capacity that ammo in each separate engagement is a non-issue. It's to be assumed that the blocks are reloaded by the gunnery chief in between each major mission along with regular weapon maintanence.

Ok guys, you got me, Im down, defeated, finished. You go own nitpicking. Im gonna go have fun playing the game.

[Sajuro]

@Tven0


So you can accept psychic alien babes, magic biotics, near unlimited ammunition that just needs time to cool down before you can start shooting again, aliens with a poorly explained immune system, Conrad Verner having a wife, an incompetent terrorist group being able to avoid justice even though they paint their logo on everything, and immortal sentient machines..... but people looking at Geth weaponry and making new guns in the same fashion, that's just not possible.
You also assume they didn't start working on Thermal clips before Sovereign's attack on the citadel. Your escapades throughout the galaxy left plenty of dead geth and their weapons in your wake so someone on Noveria or Feros or Eden Prime could have examined the different mechanisms in the geth weaponry and they were able to produce prototype weapons within a month of Sovereign's attack on the citadel. The gun Shepard had could have had a model number on it indicating it was a thermal clip using gun which he could have very well seen before he died in the collector attack.

[TheAzureVanguard]

Wow someones got their panties in a twist...its seriously that big a deal.



However HERES an idea!



You could come up with your own theories about how soldiers got adrenaline rush and vanguards got that biotic rush and then submit it to Bioware as a CODEX page?



That way everybody wins? Am I right?

[Ecael]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

Wow someones got their panties in a twist...its seriously that big a deal.

However HERES an idea!

You could come up with your own theories about how soldiers got adrenaline rush and vanguards got that biotic rush and then submit it to Bioware as a CODEX page?

That way everybody wins? Am I right?

You mean there's an alternative to whining constantly about plot holes?

I never noticed!

[Tven0]

Look, guys, you seriously need to learn the difference between storyline narrative and gameplay. I can fully accept the fantastical nature of the Mass Effect Universe. I can accept weird things happen, like people get resurrected.



The point im making is that the game immersion is ruined. You're meant to be drawn into games or films. The technical term is 'suspension of disbelief'. This error ruins that, and I am pointing it out to the devs in the only way possible. You didn't have to comment, yet you all did. Cheers

[inversevideo]

Tven0 wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

its just a fix for gameplay rather than lore.. when you find weapons with only thermal clips being used on a ship thats been crashed for a decade well its a blatent " I hope people wont notice we cant be bothered making things completely lore friendly and most players wont care enough for it to matter anyway"

Thank you Nikki! That is precisely the point im trying to make. Games are trying to present themselves in a mature way, and trying to be accepted into the mainstream. And yet, when continuity errors like this occur at the start of a game, even a very small error - and the immersion is ruined. Designers are lazy, and players don't care about the worlds they play in. They just accept whatever crap gets thrown at them by the designers and accept it instead of challenge it - challenging things is how you make better games.

I was going to say that the thermal clip issue does not represent 'story failure', and I still think it is not a game breaker.  But nikki191 does illustrate your point a bit better.  There should be no thermal clips or mechs on Aeia.
Mechs were created after the attack on the Citadel, according to the codex, as a response to the loss of life by so many C-SEC personnel defending the station against Saren and his Geth.  There should not have been any mechs on the Hugo Gernsback, as it crashed ten years before the attack on the Citadel.  And the weapons should have been lesser versions of those available to you in ME 1.; so no thermal clips.

So yes, someone did not adequately check this particular side quest, to make sure that it made sense, internally, to the story

So I agree with you.

A valid and constructive criticism, which I hope devs take in the best way.

Hopefully, for ME3, someone will check each story arc to ensure that it is internally consistent.

[cachx]

Tven0 wrote...
You will see I am doing so to try and alert game's companies on the
whole to their failings.

This part made me laugh. It's so easy to make fun of this, I'm actually not going to try.

Thermal clips were a small RetCon. Deal.

Check the list, plenty of media use this (and in worse ways).

Granted, they really effed up by having them in Jacob's loyalty mission, but that has been talked to death already...

[Jzadek72]

Sound Familiar to you, op?

Modifié par Jzadek72, 04 juin 2010 - 10:09 .

[Richpur]

Looks like people have got so tired of the "why diid they add ammo?" arguments that they don't pay attention for long enough to notice when that is nothing to do with the thread.



Thermal clips as a ret-con would have been fine, weird but fine. That they went to the effort of explaining the change in-universe, then ignored the explanation for the entire game does make you wonder how late in development the justification was dreamed up.



Still hoping for a hybrid system in ME3; thermal clips might be better for armies and security forces, but a one man assault on a space station would be easier with the old heatsinks.

[CmdrFenix83]

JKoopman wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

I think people seem to forget that there were heat sinks in ME1 too

And Shepard never asked anyone about thermal clips

A heat sink is not a thermal clip.

That's exactly what the Thermal Clips are.  Consumable heat sinks.

[Vaenier]

Ignore the massive retcons and plotholes. Remain ignorant to ME2's problems or else you shall see the game for the train wreck it is.

[Sajuro]

inversevideo wrote...

Tven0 wrote...

nikki191 wrote...

its just a fix for gameplay rather than lore.. when you find weapons with only thermal clips being used on a ship thats been crashed for a decade well its a blatent " I hope people wont notice we cant be bothered making things completely lore friendly and most players wont care enough for it to matter anyway"

Thank you Nikki! That is precisely the point im trying to make. Games are trying to present themselves in a mature way, and trying to be accepted into the mainstream. And yet, when continuity errors like this occur at the start of a game, even a very small error - and the immersion is ruined. Designers are lazy, and players don't care about the worlds they play in. They just accept whatever crap gets thrown at them by the designers and accept it instead of challenge it - challenging things is how you make better games.

I was going to say that the thermal clip issue does not represent 'story failure', and I still think it is not a game breaker.  But nikki191 does illustrate your point a bit better.  There should be no thermal clips or mechs on Aeia.
Mechs were created after the attack on the Citadel, according to the codex, as a response to the loss of life by so many C-SEC personnel defending the station against Saren and his Geth.  There should not have been any mechs on the Hugo Gernsback, as it crashed ten years before the attack on the Citadel.  And the weapons should have been lesser versions of those available to you in ME 1.; so no thermal clips.

So yes, someone did not adequately check this particular side quest, to make sure that it made sense, internally, to the story

So I agree with you.

A valid and constructive criticism, which I hope devs take in the best way.

Hopefully, for ME3, someone will check each story arc to ensure that it is internally consistent.

Their mistake was thinking that no one would bother getting the priiize loyal

[JKoopman]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

I think people seem to forget that there were heat sinks in ME1 too

And Shepard never asked anyone about thermal clips

A heat sink is not a thermal clip.

That's exactly what the Thermal Clips are.  Consumable heat sinks.

Wrong. A heat sink is designed to transfer heat. It's a conduit, much like the heat sink in your computer transfers heat from your CPU and disipates it into the surrounding air (or water if you're one of those richies with a water-cooled rig).

Thermal clips, as they function in ME2, simply absorb heat with no apparent disipation and are designed to be discarded once their storage capacity is reached.

Heat sink = heat transfer conduit. Thermal clip = heat storage device.

[CmdrFenix83]

JKoopman wrote...

Wrong. A heat sink is designed to transfer heat. It's a conduit, much like the heat sink in your computer transfers heat from your CPU and disipates it into the surrounding air (or water if you're one of those richies with a water-cooled rig).

Thermal clips, as they function in ME2, simply absorb heat with no apparent disipation and are designed to be discarded once their storage capacity is reached.

Heat sink = heat transfer conduit. Thermal clip = heat storage device.

Again... you are WRONG.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Thermal_Clip#Mass_Effect_2

In Mass Effect 2, the weaponry system has been changed to incorporate the use of thermal clips. Thermal clips hold a store of disposable heat sinks universal to all small arms. Instead of waiting for an overheated weapon to cool down, the spent heat-sink can simply be ejected while the clip feeds in a new one. This allows for a greater sustained rate of fire and more numerous impacts on targets down range.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 04 juin 2010 - 11:00 .

[Vaenier]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Wrong. A heat sink is designed to transfer heat. It's a conduit, much like the heat sink in your computer transfers heat from your CPU and disipates it into the surrounding air (or water if you're one of those richies with a water-cooled rig).

Thermal clips, as they function in ME2, simply absorb heat with no apparent disipation and are designed to be discarded once their storage capacity is reached.

Heat sink = heat transfer conduit. Thermal clip = heat storage device.

Again... you are WRONG.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Thermal_Clip#Mass_Effect_2

In Mass Effect 2, the weaponry system has been changed to incorporate the use of thermal clips. Thermal clips hold a store of disposable heat sinks universal to all small arms. Instead of waiting for an overheated weapon to cool down, the spent heat-sink can simply be ejected while the clip feeds in a new one. This allows for a greater sustained rate of fire and more numerous impacts on targets down range.

You just proved your opponents argument...

You know that reasoning is a complete lie. Guns in ME1 shot much faster in longer sustained bursts than guns in ME2.

Modifié par Vaenier, 04 juin 2010 - 11:08 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Vaenier wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Wrong. A heat sink is designed to transfer heat. It's a conduit, much like the heat sink in your computer transfers heat from your CPU and disipates it into the surrounding air (or water if you're one of those richies with a water-cooled rig).

Thermal clips, as they function in ME2, simply absorb heat with no apparent disipation and are designed to be discarded once their storage capacity is reached.

Heat sink = heat transfer conduit. Thermal clip = heat storage device.

Again... you are WRONG.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Thermal_Clip#Mass_Effect_2

In Mass Effect 2, the weaponry system has been changed to incorporate the use of thermal clips. Thermal clips hold a store of disposable heat sinks universal to all small arms. Instead of waiting for an overheated weapon to cool down, the spent heat-sink can simply be ejected while the clip feeds in a new one. This allows for a greater sustained rate of fire and more numerous impacts on targets down range.

You just proved your opponents argument...

You know that reasoning is a complete lie. Guns in ME1 shot much faster in longer sustained bursts than guns in ME2.

Can you not read?  Here I'll bold it for you.

The Thermal Clips *are* your heat sinks.

[Vaenier]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Thermal clips, as they function in ME2, simply absorb heat with no apparent disipation and are designed to be discarded once their storage capacity is reached.

Heat sink = heat transfer conduit. Thermal clip = heat storage device.

In Mass Effect 2, the weaponry system has been changed to incorporate the use of thermal clips. Thermal clips hold a store of disposable heat sinks universal to all small arms. Instead of waiting for an overheated weapon to cool down, the spent heat-sink can simply be ejected while the clip feeds in a new one. This allows for a greater sustained rate of fire and more numerous impacts on targets down range.

He argued that Thermal clips are meant to just store the heat, not disapate them. Then you said Thermal clips just eject heat sinks when they become full instead of disapating them.

I am confused...

[CmdrFenix83]

Vaenier wrote...

He argued that Thermal clips are meant to just store the heat, not disapate them. Then you said Thermal clips just eject heat sinks when they become full instead of disapating them.

I am confused...

Seeing the bold, and hearing your posts in the other thread, I'm honestly not surprised.  Regardless of how the wording is within his post, he still states that the Thermal Clip is not a heat sink, while that is exactly the function of the Thermal Clips; to cool the gun.  The Thermal clip is just a container of multiple heat sinks.  The heat sinks are like the liquid cooling systems for a PC, not a fan.  Instead of letting the liquid heat up and have to wait for it to cool, the clips absorb the heat from the weapon and are ejected instead of waiting.

The real fault in this argument is ME1's weapon mod system allowing infinitely-firing weapons at all.

[Vaenier]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

he still states that the Thermal Clip is not a heat sink, while that is exactly the function of the Thermal Clips; to cool the gun.  The Thermal clip is just a container of multiple heat sinks.

You are confusing me. You just said that the thermal clip is a heat sink, and holds heat sinks at the same time? Or did you agree with him?

[Pacifien]

You know how you see a thread with a rant that really only lends itself to one response and posters fill up two pages with that response and you think everyone should have gotten it out of their system by then but the thread just keeps going for some reason? That's this thread.

[Weiser_Cain]

It's the future, and the original ammo solution made perfect sense.

Plus why not have a circular chain clip, once the heat sink was too hot you ejected it and another was pulled in, the individual units could cool by themselves or be cooled actively with a fan or liquid cooling in case you were in a vacuum.

[Weiser_Cain]

Pacifien wrote...

You know how you see a thread with a rant that really only lends itself to one response and posters fill up two pages with that response and you think everyone should have gotten it out of their system by then but the thread just keeps going for some reason? That's this thread.

You mean a thread about stuff people really care about? Yeah that's this thread.

[Vaenier]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

It's the future, and the original ammo solution made perfect sense.
Plus why not have a circular chain clip, once the heat sink was too hot you ejected it and another was pulled in, the individual units could cool by themselves or be cooled actively with a fan or liquid cooling in case you were in a vacuum.

Your idea makes too much sense, thus it could never be implimented...