13 réponses à ce sujet

[Victor Wachter]

Hello all,

We know that you have been wondering about the status of Dragon Age and upcoming fixes that we will be patching into the game in the future, and so we wanted to deliver an update to the community on the topic.

Since the game's launch, we have been tracking and prioritizing the issues that you have encountered and posted about in the forums. We've created a comprehensive list of these issues and have been hard at work fixing those that are the most critical to your game.

But we also wanted to make sure that you knew the status of these bug fixes and what you can expect to see resolved when the game update is finally released. So, starting with this post, we will begin listing those details. We won't reveal the full contents of the update, as many parts are still in testing and may or may not make it in. But with this first post, we wanted to assure you that many of the top issues you may have encountered are a part of the update and will be resolved.

The following items are just a small set of fixes that will be included in the update. We know that these are some of the most discussed issues, so we wanted to make sure you knew that they would resolved.

•    Game saves on Xbox 360 were being corrupted if you sold too many items to the same merchant.  Saves will no longer be corrupted if you do this.
•    Daggers will now properly assign the dexterity-based damage bonus
•    Updated audio drivers to fix a number of audio related crashes.

Keep watching for additional details. We’re packing a lot in this update and have more to reveal!

We can't give you a timeframe just yet. Our goal is to release these fixes in the shortest time possible, but we also want to make sure that this update is high quality and doesn't create any new problems. That process will take time, but we will revisit this topic until then with updates to let you know new items that have been resolved or added to the list.

These fixes are driven by your feedback, and we will keep watching the forums to find issues that we could resolve. What we've listed are not the full patch contents, but things we knew that you were most concerned with and wanted to let you know about.

And with all that said, thank you for your feedback and for helping us identify the parts of the game that needed resolution. Keep watching for more details on the next update and sharing your thoughts!

[Stanley Woo]

Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.

Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW. We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.

We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.

We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.

Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?

That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.

Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.

We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.

So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.

Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 07 juin 2010 - 08:42 .

[Stanley Woo]

Branji wrote...
Stanley Woo: your post is insulting. It sounds like you are making fun of people having problems. And it doesn't take 7 months to fix and approve 3 bugs.

And it sounds like no matter what we do at this point, if it's not precisely what you want to hear when you want to hear it, we have utterly failed and are horrible monsters who eat babies and kick puppies. Sorry, that's not constructive at this point, so frustrated or not, we can't build a time machine to undo what we've done (or haven't done) in the past. Nor are these comments becoming mor true due to repetition or volume.

Badgering? If Bioware had been properly communicative from the beginning, everything would be fine. And fans with buggy games are not acting out of a sense of "entitlement", although you said in another forum that fans weren't entitled to a game working to their satisfaction, and that the patch was a "favor". Fans are not "entitled" to have a properly working game? That's insulting

I've already clarified those comments and discussed them in a different thread, so I won't get into them again here.

How about we have a dialogue instead of you taking our words in the worst possible way and engaging in sensationalist hyperbole? Because, really, unless you tone down the rage-ahol and repeating the same non-constructive rhetoric (despite other users debunking your arguments), we're going to have a problem.

Bioware may have "missed things"? You wouldn't if you were actually reading the forums.
Costs to make patches? Considering the 3.2 million plus copies sold, Bioware made more than 180 million dollars. The cost is extremely low compared to that. Don't act like you barely broke even.

Yes, because sales figures at retail equal net revenue for the developer, right? that may be the way your income is generated, but in the reasonable world, expenses are also taken into account. But that's not a discussion we're going to get into.

Singling me out for my posts when some have been putting many swear words in theirs and even practically ranting? Seems that my post on page 7 may be hitting Bioware/EA close to home.

"Practically" ranting? Branji, you've been tarring and feathering us for pages already. Just because your posts happen to have no swearing doesn't make your arguments any more valid, or your inflammatory remarks more true or acceptable. i single you out because you're the loudest, most visible rantmonger right now. If I can get you to follow the forum rules better, hopefully the more moderate folk will fall in line. If you can't do even that, I'll have to take different measures.

Let's try and make this discussion constructive and productive, folks. Thank you.

EDIT: Wicked, joey_mork, tone it down and return to your respective corners. Either cut out the bickering or agree to disagree. thank you.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 07 juin 2010 - 11:35 .

[Stanley Woo]

BrunoB1971 wrote...


I agree with many of the good comments posted here so far.

People should not have had to wait so long fo a serious patch to come up.

What burned people the most is the silence of EA and Bioware on the issues of the game.

With the modding going on that fixes many bugs, it is crystal clear that the game had not gone thru a proper QA before release.

The first few patches were jokes.

Sorry, BrunoB, but you can't at once lambast us for not putting out a patch and then discount the patches we [i]do[/]i put out. That's selective bias, which is bad science.

That big of a company should be ashame to have put a game out that way and they can bless the gaming media and their big wallet on publicity to give the game good ratings and a good shiny appearance overall whilst it was not the case at all.

Or, the game really was good, and a vocal minority are having (sometimes serious) problems with it. Your theory invents collusion and conspiracy between media and industry; mine can be applied universally without assuming anything.

Another thing that burns me is that no one outside this forum seems to speak out about the poor state of the game or even acknowledge it. It does not take a genius to figure this one out. Not all people that posted here about their problems could be potential liars or fabricating things about the game issues just out of spite.

I'll refer you to my paragraph above. Perhaps they're simply not experiencing the problems you are, or aren't experiencing the same problems you are. Maybe their problems aren't game-stoppinc, or aren't affecting their playthroughs. Perhaps--and I'm going out on a limb here, BrunoB--they simply disagree with you?

What Bioware should do to at least "try" to redeem themselves is to patch the damn game properly and offer a "thank you for your patience reward"....aka an upcoming dlc free of charge.

That is right..free of charge to demonstrate that they have the balls to take the blame and the balls to own up like mature grown up people, to take responsability for what they did to their fans.

Perhaps the community should pay a higher price for upcoming DLC or patch, just to show that they really support BioWare and patch development. Or some other arbitrary idea that benefits one side without any thought to the other! You know, to encourage us to "patch the damn game properly" and "offer a "thank you for patching the game" reward".

Sorry, BrunoB, it's not really a negotiation type relationship that we have here. Also, I'm totally joking about the higher price thing. Customers would never go for that sort of thing. by the same token, developers would never allow customers to dictate terms or to suggest what's "fair."

that would be the right thing to do!

Implying any other option would be "wrong." Sorry, BrunoB, i think there are a number of options here which are more equitable. that doesn't even take into account whether I agree with your assessment of the situation or what remedy is required, which I don't. Sorry.

[Stanley Woo]

Again, Wicked, joey_mork, either take it to private or agree to disagree. your bickering isn't advancing anything.

[Stanley Woo]

dr dANGER boy wrote...
I hope Bioware, the devs, and the current bug-fixin' dudes don't think that we all hate you. As is true for the laws in any country you abide in, it is always the few that ruin it for the many. For every whiner, complainer, flamer, etc there are 20 who are content to wait and realize that games are not life and we don't need things NOW NOW NOW.

don't worry, we're well aware that thre are lots of folks, some of who--imagine that!--don't post in this thread who like us very much. i personally like to see the best in people, and believe that folks are generally good and want us to do the best we can. we appreciate that. Heck, we even appreciate when people []idon't[/i] like us, since by participating in our community, they're showing us they're at least trying to help us make better games, maybe ones they'll enjoy more next time.

Where I draw the line is outright hostility and requiring us to go back in time to make things right, or folks who have dug in their heels so much, they won't even give an inch or demonstrate their minds can maybe possibly be changed.

Thanks for your work. Know that there ARE mature gamers out there who appreciate quality stuff. Thanks for the updates!

Yup, we see you!

[Stanley Woo]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Stanley, you can protest all you want about the "me me me" "now Now NOW!" people all you want, however that doesn't change the fact that we're at the 7 month marker. And since I play this game on a console I'll say it once again....as far as bug fixes go the consoles have pretty much gotten squat. Now I know all about the resources required and the proper procedures that have to be taken, I'm a corporate cubicle peon too. I know all about that stuff since I occasionally help write some PnPs with the managers I work with. But the sad truth is that it's all meaningless.

i believe I've mentioned before that I'm not going to get into the console side of things. this is because I am less familiar with the hardware, was never on a team which dealt primarily with the consoles, and am primarily a PC gamer. i am not qualified to say with any certainty what console patch development is like.

Your company has made a CHOICE to allocate resources in a specific way. That CHOICE has resulted in the (growing) perception that your company has not provided a satisfactory amount of support for your product. They could be wrong. You could be wrong. What isn't in contention here is that a long list of bugs, organized by the community, has existed from almost launch day. And for the consoles, it's taken 7 months to even BEGIN to address them.

I disagree, but I am not at liberty to discuss that any further. All I can say is "there are strange things done in the midnight sun / By the men who moil for gold." not helpful or at all informative, i know, but I can't elaborate.

I think that's bullpucky. Sure, that's just my opinion. But clearly I'm not alone. Is this the new standard? This type of time-frame is acceptable now? Because if it is....and that's how you're going to operate going forward....I'm afraid I'm not going to want to do business with your company anymore. Because I don't think you're the norm. I have too many current examples showing otherwise to back you up on this.

And that's fair. And as i believe I've said before, Nathan Willis has already mentioned a willingness to engage in more collaborative methods (that's working with the community rather than having the community dictate to us what should be worked on) of patch development. Certainly, we are always trying to do things better.

[Stanley Woo]

Katsunami wrote...

Qwinn? I knew I saw that name before. He seems Bioware's unofficial community patcher or something, because he also did a very good PlaneScape:Torment patch, and iirc, also helped on the Baldurdash fixes for BG1 and 2. Waaaaay back in the times of 1998 to 2001....

Planescape: Torment is not a BioWare developed title. that game was developed by Black Isle Studios.

[Stanley Woo]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...
The problem BW/EA is facing right now is that this post must have been done 5 months ago!,

Something we'd have to go back in time to prevent, so as soon as commercial time travel is viable and inexpensive enough, I'll get right on that.

now it does seem too little too late, in the Xbox side; and if you add the infamous and quite deplorable comments from Mr. Woo, this only shows a catastrophic client management... perhaps now is for real, but in the Xbox side, we've heard the same old song during 7 months: "we are working on it", people were chilled out the first 2 times, now, BW looks like storytellers... if the fixes were delivered 4 months ago, this situation would have been resolved and many would be buying more and more DLCs....

So, we needed to say this 5 months ago, but everything we said 5 months ago were lies that you can't believe, and even though we're saying it now, it's too late because you're not going to believe anything we say, but we still need to say more. Look, i understand people are frustrated and angry, but the way some tell it, we need to tell you more, less, everything and nothing at all so we don't break promises, and we need to say all that simultaneously.

and in return for this impossible communication, you will never buy a BioWare product again, more DLC will be purchased, and BioWare will magically be respected again. And lose all credibility.

Not just a time machine is needed, apparently. i don't know why I feel the need to keep poking the bear time and again, maybe I just don't like all these mutually exclusive solutions people keep coming up with. Or maybe I'm just a big stoopid jerk, which I can totally agree with.

[Stanley Woo]

Master Bandit wrote...

Why is it that mod makers can fix almost everything faster than developers? (in this case Bioware)
Shouldnt these people get hired?

I don't want to trivialize or dismiss the work modders do, because they're awesome. But modders aren't officail, so they don't need to go through official channels or wait for an official release or have official status for their work, and their work doesn't have to be officially recognized by anyone. That's why they can do everything faster. If they were hired, they'd be part of our system, wouldn't they, and subject to our limitations and restrictions and ways of doing things?

[Stanley Woo]

Andari_Surana wrote...
I know Qwinn would like a bioware job, it says so on his website.  If he's been fixing your dang games since 2001, its about time u put someone who loves the genre, and is a stickler for detail - i.e. mechanics working as intended, quests working as intended, etc - on your bug team.  He's already proved he is 1000x faster at fixing bugs then your entire patch team, which proves the point - as a programmer myself - that 90% of these bugs are easily fixable.  U'r patch team needs some guidance (or perhaps the problem is u don't have one?).  Put Qwinn on your payroll, he has a recognized name of these forums, pay him well, get him working on dao, and then da2, and then maybe you'll turn around this BP of public relations disasters.

Again, no knocking Qwinn, since I think modders who do this sort of bug-fixing on their own initiative is pretty awesome, but it's easy to fix bugs quickly when you have no deadlines, no accountability, no schedule, no other tasks, no payment (which means no expectations), no need to attend meetings, and no need to go through any offical channels, certifications, approvals, planning, or having it be an official patch.

The same way I could bake a batch of cookies and sell them faster than Mr. Christie could come up with a similar recipe, since I don't have to worry about mass production, facilities, hiring staff, permits, taxes, safety standards, certifications, testing, distribution channels, retail agreements, boards of directors, packaging, financial planning, shelf life, marketing, allergies, or pleasing anyone's tastes except myself. It doesn't mean I'm better than Christie, or that I would do any better work if I worked for Christie. It just means that a hobbyist with time and dedication has some freedom that companies don't.

[Stanley Woo]

BrunoB1971 wrote...
The problem is that you talk on behalf of Bioware which is a company or corporation and you speak like a corporate person.

I am a corporate person, since no one is willing to treat me like just another dude when I'm not saying things they want to hear. The internet is very "if you're not with us, you're against us," and since I disagree with you, or you with me, it means I'm the big bad corporation out to victimize the little guy. it's not a terribly great argument, but I've been around long enough that I recognize it. I've also set myself up to be a target in this discussion and I accept that too.

You are trying to explain the process of what is going on at your company

Actually, the last couple of posts I've made, i've been responding only to the question of how can a hobbyist do something faster/better than a company can.

At some points, meetings have to stop and someone has to move and do something other than talk about how things should go about or be resolved.

I agree, but how and why does the community determine that point? Especially when we're already moving?

People here don't want to know how a company works...most of us go thru this every day anyways and we know this. What we want to know is when, how much and the reasons why it took so long to even come up with a plan.

those are conflicting desires, BrunoB. You don't want to know how a company works, but you want to know the reasons why a company can move so slowly. how's this for an answer? Because there's lots of stuff going on behind the scenes that you never see and will never know about. Done. Answer given, not repeating myself, moving on.

is that a more satisfactory response than trying to help people understand how game development works? Because I can keep pointing to that answer if it is. YOU might know this stuff, many other people might already know this stuff, but based on some of the responses I've seen in this thread, there are a heck of a lot of people who DON'T know how companies or game developers work.

You should think more of putting yourself in aneutral position where you defend the opinions of the gamers while representing your company as they want you to do.

Can't. the community and the internet has made it "us vs. them." Based on what I know and my position here, I can't participate in this discussion and start arguing completely in favour of the community. I have allowed the community to express themselves, even sometimes in a hostile, insulting manner, and have acknowledged, even encouraged, the community's power as consumers and gamers. And I'm not a coddler, I'm not going to bow and scrape to a hostile community faction to satisfy their every demand. i will continue to speak frankly and sincerely as much as I am able. With "free" speech, you have to be able to take the bad along with the good. And I'm pretty good at taking the bad.

[Stanley Woo]

BrunoB1971 wrote...
Then Stanley, people will lose respect for your company. I am sorry but you have just proven again to me and probably some other people that Bioware is not ready to admit a Mea Culpa and be done with.

Interperonsal interaction shouldn't be a quest, BrunoB. You seem to want me to complete a certain quest (ie. say something specific at a specific time), but you've given me no journal entry, no Codex entry, and nothing in the manual to go by. Also, it seems to be a minigame whose rules I'm not familair with.

"BioWare is not ready to admit a Mea Culpa and be done with?" isn't this entire thread intended to make up for the lack of communication in the past?

[Stanley Woo]

Hey, folks, let's all remember to please stay on topic. If you want to bicker amongst yourself, please take it to private or find yourselves a chatroom or IRC channel in which to do it. and let's keep the spam to a minimum. Thank you.