674 réponses à ce sujet

[Thibbledorf26]

Awakenings has major bugs which should have been quashed during development, and they have not been fixed yet. Companies do have a responsibility to fix major bugs in games that people paid money for.



I'm sick of hearing that the devs don't have to post on forums, we are privileged that they post here etc. Most modern studios do, or will have to, use social media to communicate with customers in the modern consumer environment. The devs gain a valuable pulse on what gamers are feeling through the forums as well. It should be seen as a symbiotic thing,



Yeah, sometimes users post rudley, but honestly sometimes devs answer politley worded questions rudely- ala Chris Priestly- most of the time his snarkiness is joking but sometimes it reads harshly.



Bioware is a great company that makes great products, but you should never believe that you can do no wrong, because that is always a negative road to walk on.

[Genocide 6]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.

Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW. We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.

We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.

We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.

Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?

That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.

Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.

We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.

So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.

Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.

Yeah, you're right. Totally ignoring our threads on the xbox tech support forums for months was definitely the best way to handle this. Then you wonder why people yell at you. Just sayin.

[edgarcabrerauk]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Stanley, you can protest all you want about the "me me me" "now Now NOW!" people all you want, however that doesn't change the fact that we're at the 7 month marker. And since I play this game on a console I'll say it once again....as far as bug fixes go the consoles have pretty much gotten squat. Now I know all about the resources required and the proper procedures that have to be taken, I'm a corporate cubicle peon too. I know all about that stuff since I occasionally help write some PnPs with the managers I work with. But the sad truth is that it's all meaningless.

i believe I've mentioned before that I'm not going to get into the console side of things. this is because I am less familiar with the hardware, was never on a team which dealt primarily with the consoles, and am primarily a PC gamer. i am not qualified to say with any certainty what console patch development is like.

BUT, it does qualify you to CLAIM that the EULA states that there is NOT RESPONSIBILITY to  patch a defective product... indeed, your lack of knowledge in consumer products (consoles) is well stated (sic) "this is because I am less familiar with the hardware, was never on a team which dealt primarily with the consoles, and am primarily a PC gamer. i am not qualified to say with any certainty what console patch development is like."... not impressed 

Stanley Woo wrote...

Your company has made a CHOICE to allocate resources in a specific way. That CHOICE has resulted in the (growing) perception that your company has not provided a satisfactory amount of support for your product. They could be wrong. You could be wrong. What isn't in contention here is that a long list of bugs, organized by the community, has existed from almost launch day. And for the consoles, it's taken 7 months to even BEGIN to address them.

I disagree, but I am not at liberty to discuss that any further. All I can say is "there are strange things done in the midnight sun / By the men who moil for gold." not helpful or at all informative, i know, but I can't elaborate.

Ehem, but that did not stop you to state what you said... of course you (sic) "can't elaborate"

I think that's bullpucky. Sure, that's just my opinion. But clearly I'm not alone. Is this the new standard? This type of time-frame is acceptable now? Because if it is....and that's how you're going to operate going forward....I'm afraid I'm not going to want to do business with your company anymore. Because I don't think you're the norm. I have too many current examples showing otherwise to back you up on this.

Stanley Woo wrote...And that's fair. And as i believe I've said before, Nathan Willis has already mentioned a willingness to engage in more collaborative methods (that's working with the community rather than having the community dictate to us what should be worked on) of patch development. Certainly, we are always trying to do things better.

Well, since the customer ( a minority in Xbox), why you are  (sic) " ...(working with the community rather than having the community dictate to us whatshould be worked on) of patch development"... because you are the manufacturer of a product, WTF, you delivered a faulty product? when YOU know EVERYTHING and the idiot clients were able to point out bugs??? why, if you being so PERFECT, WHY LET A BUNCH OF IDIOTS TO NOTICE WHAT IS WRONG????... isn't pathetic????... I mean If I am perfect, I wish none can tell me that my product is faulty...

And BTW, Stanley, your low bullocks about EULA can impress your fans, but not the retailers that had to deal with the Xbox copies that have been returned....

Modifié par edgarcabrerauk, 08 juin 2010 - 02:51 .

[Arttis]

well they do not completely ignore if you browse through the threads you can find dev posts.

We do lack updates on progress and ETA.

We expect devs to post as much there like in other places so we feel a bit lonely.

[Genocide 6]

Arttis wrote...

well they do not completely ignore if you browse through the threads you can find dev posts.
We do lack updates on progress and ETA.
We expect devs to post as much there like in other places so we feel a bit lonely.

Actually it took them 4 months and 15 pages on the save corruption bug thread to finally give us a 'we're looking into it'. I consider that ignoring.

[Arttis]

they had some updates on the bug with a tattoo

They are there they are updating

just not the stuff you want as fast as you want it

[Genocide 6]

Arttis wrote...

they had some updates on the bug with a tattoo
They are there they are updating
just not the stuff you want as fast as you want it

I personally haven't seen a single bug fix for the 360 since my files got destroyed. I'm assuming you're talking about a different console. Strangely though they had plenty of time to release some shiny new DLCs.

[Arttis]

im not syaing they released anything just saying the devs are there.

I recently had an update for the game today but i havent been hooked up to x box live in 4 months

so i think there have been updates

maybe the update mixed in with other updates you get

im only connected to x box live very rarely

[edgarcabrerauk]

Arttis wrote...

just not the stuff you want as fast as you want it

indeed, almost 8 months is not what "you want as fast as you want"... what is fast for you?.... 80 months? or perhaps 8 years?.. I mean, just to state what is your definition of fast....

[edgarcabrerauk]

Arttis wrote...

I recently had an update for the game today but i havent been hooked up to x box live in 4 months

that does explain much... that last update was delivered if you have got DAA on disc and you want to download the "darkspawn chronicles.", but no, not a single patch for the issues mentioned here..

[Wicked 702]

Updates to prepare the game for more DLC yes. Gameplay changes (i.e. fixes) NO.



And arttis, one of the biggest problems I have is that the customer service across the board is terrible. If you call EA, they tell you to do all these insane things like wipe your HDD. 99% of the time they don't know what they're talking about and they're reading from a script. Well guess what, no matter how many times you wipe the HDD it wasn't the problem in the first place so nothing gets fixed. DUH!!! I've seen this happen too many times already.



Then if you manage to get out of EA customer service in one piece they direct you to this forum. Here you post your problem and NO ONE from Bioware addresses it personally. Again, 99.999% of all the problems brought here are addressed by other users who've taken the time to solve the issues themselves (like switzki). We do their tech support jobs for them, isn't that nice?



That's one of the major reasons this ignore/patch process is really ticking me off.

[BigDawg2000]

the only thing i saw in that whole post was the DEX fix!! thank you!! i can start playing DOA again

[Apex Sammoth]

Will this actually fix the performance issues on the PC version ? I mean I been waiting since Nov for the %100 processor issue, CTD, just to name a few. My PC has been tested over and over, all games I own run great on it and I am well above the Recommend specs. As Of Right now I have un- installed DOA because of the lack of support for the game. You guys gathered info for it last year and nothing has been fixed. Yet you "Bioware" didn't waste any time putting out DLC and Expansions. Niether I have bought thx to the lack of support for the core game. In other words would I be wasting my time on reinstalling the game again just to find out the patch did nothing like the 1.03 patch did ?

[Feraele]

joey_mork84 wrote...

*Passes over useless wall of text by those with ZERO comprehension*

@Victor: This is a bit off topic, but is there any chance of getting an 'Ignore' option added to the forums? I would gladly trade in a bug fix or two for this option...

We've been asking for this for several months now..and last thread I saw about it..got shut down.    Not going to hold my breath on this one.    If silence from Bioware prevails..it pretty much means they aren't going to answer on it or grant the request.    

Been there done that....

[Feraele]

@ Stanley Woo



Sounds like not only are the fans frustrated, but you guys behind-the-scenes are too. Its kind of like a stalemate..whats it going to take to break whatever the holdup is, and allow peace to reign for once.



I can definitely empathize with you after reading what you wrote, its a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't.



Have a beer Stan.. It's "only" a game forum.

[edgarcabrerauk]

Apex Sammoth wrote...

Will this actually fix the performance issues on the PC version ? I mean I been waiting since Nov for the %100 processor issue, CTD, just to name a few. My PC has been tested over and over, all games I own run great on it and I am well above the Recommend specs. As Of Right now I have un- installed DOA because of the lack of support for the game. You guys gathered info for it last year and nothing has been fixed. Yet you "Bioware" didn't waste any time putting out DLC and Expansions. Niether I have bought thx to the lack of support for the core game. In other words would I be wasting my time on reinstalling the game again just to find out the patch did nothing like the 1.03 patch did ?

Well, you can buy and wear an "I love Alistar" shirt.... if that can cherry you up... 

PS. Just joking, and I do agree with you....

Modifié par edgarcabrerauk, 08 juin 2010 - 04:05 .

[Arttis]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

Arttis wrote...

I recently had an update for the game today but i havent been hooked up to x box live in 4 months

that does explain much... that last update was delivered if you have got DAA on disc and you want to download the "darkspawn chronicles.", but no, not a single patch for the issues mentioned here..

i havent any dlc other then promo items blood dragon shale

[Arttis]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

Arttis wrote...

just not the stuff you want as fast as you want it

indeed, almost 8 months is not what "you want as fast as you want"... what is fast for you?.... 80 months? or perhaps 8 years?.. I mean, just to state what is your definition of fast....

depends on how many things they are working on and whether or not they are working on a lot of them at once.
Since we lack a great deal of info of whats happenning i imagine your all assuming they are working on the one big game breaking bug you encountered which might be true.

[Arttis]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Updates to prepare the game for more DLC yes. Gameplay changes (i.e. fixes) NO.

And arttis, one of the biggest problems I have is that the customer service across the board is terrible. If you call EA, they tell you to do all these insane things like wipe your HDD. 99% of the time they don't know what they're talking about and they're reading from a script. Well guess what, no matter how many times you wipe the HDD it wasn't the problem in the first place so nothing gets fixed. DUH!!! I've seen this happen too many times already.

Then if you manage to get out of EA customer service in one piece they direct you to this forum. Here you post your problem and NO ONE from Bioware addresses it personally. Again, 99.999% of all the problems brought here are addressed by other users who've taken the time to solve the issues themselves (like switzki). We do their tech support jobs for them, isn't that nice?

That's one of the major reasons this ignore/patch process is really ticking me off.

well im just gonna say ive played over 1000 hours of dragon age origins and have not encounter all the bugs everyone is talking about.
I imagine they are finding  it hard to pin point the problem to fix.
yet to have and save game corruption even with selling everything to one merchant.
Not sure what else to tell you guys.

[Feraele]

Apex Sammoth wrote...

Will this actually fix the performance issues on the PC version ? I mean I been waiting since Nov for the %100 processor issue, CTD, just to name a few. My PC has been tested over and over, all games I own run great on it and I am well above the Recommend specs. As Of Right now I have un- installed DOA because of the lack of support for the game. You guys gathered info for it last year and nothing has been fixed. Yet you "Bioware" didn't waste any time putting out DLC and Expansions. Niether I have bought thx to the lack of support for the core game. In other words would I be wasting my time on reinstalling the game again just to find out the patch did nothing like the 1.03 patch did ?

Bug fixer team is separate and apart from the DLC and Expansion teams.     Bug fixer team is working on fixes for all three platforms, which after its been found, run through tests,   recreated..etc  then they have to run it by Sony's certification, or Microsoft or Nintendo.     Thats the part that takes time,  and if the "fixed bug" fails one of those three certifications..then its back to the drawing board....til its fixed again..and sent through all the necessary processes.

If it was only PC, or only console..then I assume the bug fixes would be out alot faster, being that its all three platforms...this is what takes the longest.   Some bugs are specific to a platform, some affect all...

Just read what Stanley wrote. 

[edgarcabrerauk]

Arttis wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Updates to prepare the game for more DLC yes. Gameplay changes (i.e. fixes) NO.

And arttis, one of the biggest problems I have is that the customer service across the board is terrible. If you call EA, they tell you to do all these insane things like wipe your HDD. 99% of the time they don't know what they're talking about and they're reading from a script. Well guess what, no matter how many times you wipe the HDD it wasn't the problem in the first place so nothing gets fixed. DUH!!! I've seen this happen too many times already.

Then if you manage to get out of EA customer service in one piece they direct you to this forum. Here you post your problem and NO ONE from Bioware addresses it personally. Again, 99.999% of all the problems brought here are addressed by other users who've taken the time to solve the issues themselves (like switzki). We do their tech support jobs for them, isn't that nice?

That's one of the major reasons this ignore/patch process is really ticking me off.

well im just gonna say ive played over 1000 hours of dragon age origins and have not encounter all the bugs everyone is talking about.
I imagine they are finding  it hard to pin point the problem to fix.
yet to have and save game corruption even with selling everything to one merchant.
Not sure what else to tell you guys.

well 1000 hours means 1 month and 2 weeks non stop, which makes sense since the game is 7 months old, I've played 15000 hours I did encounter those bugs.... but , if you haven't come across such bugs or you have, the bugs are there and at the end of the day if those bugs ( non existent for you) are fixed, it won't affect you?? and it will enhance and make you gameplay better,,, you've got nothing to lose but too much to win..... is this thinking better than say "I've got no bugs"?.... :happy:

[Nazarus7]

I just really hope that this patch (whenever it comes out) actually makes the PC version of Awakening playable. I got it on day one release and was unable to get pass the first hour of gameplay due to constant crashing to desktop.

Fingers crossed, but not overly optimistic on getting a fix soon

[Drewbahr]

Feraele wrote...

@ Stanley Woo

Sounds like not only are the fans frustrated, but you guys behind-the-scenes are too. Its kind of like a stalemate..whats it going to take to break whatever the holdup is, and allow peace to reign for once.

I can definitely empathize with you after reading what you wrote, its a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Have a beer Stan.. It's "only" a game forum.

All that we - the consumers - wanted from the developers was a post.  Something since their last one five months ago.  Stating that they actually had something in the works, maybe some word on progress or an ETA on a bug fix.  Now that we have that post, it's time for them to start actually working on it.

Most of these bugs - Origins save corruption bugs, the DEX bug, the huge host of Awakenings errors - should have never made it past beta testing.  It'd be one thing if they were minor - like, for example, the random, periodic "head-flies-off-towards-the-camera" bug.  But save file corruption due to saving too much?  Or selling items to a merchant?  Those should have been squished months ago.

I was one of many who was rough on the developers.  I was also much more rude and blatant in my objections towards Bioware's behavior with this.  I'm happy they finally released even a semblance of information on the fix, but this is coming so, so late that I find it hard to care.  I'll spend my money on games that are finished and largely bug-free on release, instead of paying upwards of $100 for a game and its DLC when they won't even fix bugs in under half a year.

[ShinsFortress]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Or, the game really was good, and a vocal minority are having (sometimes serious) problems with it. Your theory invents collusion and conspiracy between media and industry; mine can be applied universally without assuming anything.

I thought certain bugs (e.g. Stealing) are 'hard faults' and affect anyone using the feature.  I think that's a pretty big deal to not have been on the initial list at the beginning of this thread.

Modifié par ShinsFortress, 08 juin 2010 - 01:58 .

[Thatdude88]

My brilliant question of the day is if you have 3 bugs fixed then hey how about taking those three bugs and sticking them in a patch then take what ever else your making one bug fix at a time and put them in patches 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 as its not going to hurt our feelings to have to download a few extra files and its not going to take you more then 5 minutes to compile them into a install file.



This would not be necessary if it didn't take you 3 -4 months per bug fix but since it does.



After the game is solid and fixed you can go back and compile all the patchs into one nice big one.



if not and yah are going to continue putting limited resources into the game then please point me in the direction to get a refund for my broken and not as advertised product.



If I purchase a electronic piece of equipment from newegg, walmart or any other retail company and it is defective when it arrives they will try to fix it if I get tired of them tring to fix it they will refund my money. However YOU BIOWARE gave me a BROKEN product that I can NOT play, and have made no effort to offer refunds to your customers. when people start sueing you for selling broken products and it becomes more of a loss to not fix the bugs then it does to put it off I am sure you will spend all the money necessary towards your patch fixing team.



What do you think would happen if any other product company sold say a million broken Items lets say a Air conditioner and then refused to fix or refund that product(just like your doing)? You know what would happen to that company? they would go bankrupt from law suits.