674 réponses à ce sujet

[Bahlgan]

Damn.... I practically read EVERY post on this thread... Took over 3 hours too, maybe 4, gah! Cannot remember.



On one hand: I am GRATEFUL as hell that Bioware has listened to customer feedback and has acted on addressing the issues all across the platforms. On the other hand, yes, 3 confirmed fixes in seven months is a tad..... Shoot me, just make it quick.



Now I got my own personal optimistic and pessimistic opinions about thread, but from the looks of it 11 pages was more than enough to cover my opinions, SAVE ONE: I am not judgmental (at least not entirely) until it is confirmed how much has been done AKA "Make the final judgment call when it is valid"



My final judgment call is this: There are many people complaining about this game and its progress, and while I am usually sympathetic towards those who bust their balls to fix programming errors or "what have you", I must say I am disappointed in Bioware's ability to maintain a steady crowd control and decent explanation.



I understand if it takes a while to fix programming (I tried it for six months and HATE it), but I also know there ARE people in Bioware who were practically born to handle these matters, thus making it look easy. A confirmation that you ARE working on it would be nice, even if it might get a tad repetitive.



BUT, With each slap comes a hug (no kisses for you Bio for invasion of space reasons)



I DO thank you for your work and hope that the unconfirmed bugs will come true. For a while I have remained speculative as to whether or not the patch was or was to come. That said, I thank you for releasing information about the coming patch. Please do keep up the good work!

[PermanentlyAngry]

The Masked Rog wrote...

PermanentlyAngry wrote...

Biotic Budah wrote...

I think a lot of you folks miss the bigger picture here. They have essentially made most of the money they are going to on this game. The patches they are offering now are a courtesy and an act of good faith to encourage brand loyalty to the next Dragon Age game. I think what we should all insist upon NOW is that they make a concerted effort to ensure that debugging occurs much more quickly on the sequel titles. I'm like you folks, maxed out the number of characters I can make on the game. I've played the hell out of it. Done every ending, used every weapon. So I get to bring the Starfang with me to Awakenings? Big damn deal at this point. Too little, too late. I want you folks at Bioware to say "We screwed up, didn't handle the bugs well and we won't let this happen in the sequel". You owe us that much.

It is not an act of Good faith!!! EA and  Bioware have sold a product that is not fit for purpose, that under UK and most EU law is illegal. I don't know about the US, but certain here in the UK we're entitled to a full refund from EA / Bioware if a product they sell is unusable as is the case with Awakening.

Unusable... Right...
Care to explain the hundreds of persons who have played through it and found it to be an absolutely flawless and highly entertaining product how it is unusable. I'm sorry you are having problems, but the game is not unusable. Chill out.

Dragon Age Awakenings is unplayable. It freezes in about 1 in 5 battles for me on my PS3. Also if its a fight like the Baroness it freezes100% of the time. Therefore I can not use all of the product and therefore it is not fit for purpose. How the hell Biowares QA let this update out in the state its currently in. If I spend my hard earned cash on something I don't expect to have to sit around to wait to use it because some coders and QA team didn't do their jobs right in the first place. I don't appear to want to do their jobs right now!!! Sorry its just not good enough, especially when you consider the PS3 and Xbox are stable platforms in terms of hardware (I knowsystem updates can affect things) so its not like they have a moving target to hit is it? I've gone through Origins and experienced minor bugs, I can't play Awakenings for mor than 30 mins without it freezing and me needing to re-boot my PS3. its a pile of rubbish and having spoken to some of my PS3 fans with the game ALL arehaving the same problems 100%, so its not just a handful.

[Revan1701]

I'm really concerned about Bioware's SW:ToR MMO after witnessing Stanley's attitude on this situation with DA lol...



Hope he is not on the QA/Testing Team for that game or it will surely fail muahaha!!

[FlyingLotus]

I love Bioware games, but their policy on bug fixing is the worst I have seen in the industry.

[Callidus Thorn]

I really hope they have improved their testing process, otherwise when this patch arrives (I suspect 2012) it could do more damage to the game even if it fixes the problems. When the patch does come out I'm going to wait a week and see what people write on the forum about it. I did the same when awakenings came out and decided not to get it due the number of issues it created (and the lack of fixes for the 360 DAO, which I own). If this patch fixes even some of the problems, I will praise Bioware for their work, but I won't forgive them for releasing an apparently partially tested game with so many bugs. I understand they couldn't fix the problems immediately, and that some bugs in a game are inevitable, however the game should at the very least work as specified in the manual. And if I've bought a game I am entitled to a working copy and deserve to expect that those problems will be addressed and fixed pomptly. I have Mass Effect 2 and it is a great game with very few problems that I've encountered, and none of them particularly troublesome, what I want to know is this: Seeing as both games were made by the same company, why were they not both made to the same level of quality? Why is one an amazing game, and the other an amazing game ruined by numerous damaging bugs? I love Bioware games, but I am disappointed in their response to the issues with this game

Modifié par Callidus Thorn, 08 juin 2010 - 01:46 .

[BrunoB1971]

Like "thatdude" i was wondering why there was not hotfix release for the most prevalent part of origins or for what 1.03 had broke without installing or getting awakening, the pickpocket but has been well documented, yet is still alive, a simple hotfix would have alleviated this. There is not shame in releasing hotfixes. Microsoft does it all the time. The supreme commander 2 team has released many patches. And after a while like thatdude said you combine everything in a service pack and release it as a big patch and no one is the wiser.



But i think that the problem is bigger than most people can imagine and that they are not really able to solve it and have been stalling for time so far. From what i understand the game has been in development for a very long time and the programming of the game while good might not meet the hardware and software requirements of today. In other words when they were building it, it was good but now their coding is ancient and they have to adapt it to todays hardware and OS'. Remember that the game is directx 9 ( from what i understand) and we're at direct x 11 now with windows 7 which makes this game look ancient programming wise. Most game from big companies would run on at least direct x 10 and many games run on an hybrid system on combined directx version which dragon age does not seem to be capable to do therefore limiting the card tricks that the game can do.



nuff said for now....

[Genocide 6]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.

Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW. We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.

We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.

We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.

Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?

That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.

Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.

We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.

So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.

Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.

Looking back at your disgusting post I have a couple more things to say. About this NOW NOW NOW crap you're spewing outta your mouth. Let me tell you something, everyone was totally calm when the corruption bug was first spotted. Nobody yelled at you or cussed you out and acted like asses demanding a patch NOW NOW NOW. Everyone was understandable about it and kindly asked for a patch. What did bioware do? IGNORED us for 4 months. We all know that's an incredibly rude thing to do. It kind of says we don't give two sh*ts about you. 4 months later, we're STILL god damn waiting. While we're waiting you had plenty of time to release an expansion, some DLC's, but not a single bug fix for the original game. How does that look? You tell me. I honestly thought the mods just totally stopped browsing the xbox tech support forums altogether. You're the only ones to blame why people are fed up and sick of this bs. I wish just one of you would grow some balls and just admit you screwed up and apologize. I didn't register on these forums demanding NOW NOW NOW. I came here with a calm attitude who simply wanted a bug fixed so I can continue playing the game I paid for. And this is the kind of support I get? 8 god damn months before you finally start taking it seriously? You are the ONLY company i've ever had this ridiculous problem of not wanting to fix their game. Any other professional company would have taken a game breaking bug seriously and fixed it ASAP because that's the right thing to do. But no not you. We had to beat the crap outta you for you to even make an effort. IT IS AMAZING how much crap your fans put up with here.

[pyro_technician]

Honestly, I'm just happy that Woo and Victor are reading our concerns and taking them into consideration. Now granted, I do wish that they would communicate with us more concerning patches and bugs but no one is perfect,right? But I am pretty satisfied now that I know that there is a patch in the works, and as long as there is more communication between the community and Bioware I'll be happy to wait a little while longer.

[Geeky Assassin]

Genocide 6 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.

Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW. We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.

We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.

We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.

Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?

That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.

Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.

We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.

So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.

Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.

Looking back at your disgusting post I have a couple more things to say. About this NOW NOW NOW crap you're spewing outta your mouth. Let me tell you something, everyone was totally calm when the corruption bug was first spotted. Nobody yelled at you or cussed you out and acted like asses demanding a patch NOW NOW NOW. Everyone was understandable about it and kindly asked for a patch. What did bioware do? IGNORED us for 4 months. We all know that's an incredibly rude thing to do. It kind of says we don't give two sh*ts about you. 4 months later, we're STILL god damn waiting. While we're waiting you had plenty of time to release an expansion, some DLC's, but not a single bug fix for the original game. How does that look? You tell me. I honestly thought the mods just totally stopped browsing the xbox tech support forums altogether. You're the only ones to blame why people are fed up and sick of this bs. I wish just one of you would grow some balls and just admit you screwed up and apologize. I didn't register on these forums demanding NOW NOW NOW. I came here with a calm attitude who simply wanted a bug fixed so I can continue playing the game I paid for. And this is the kind of support I get? 8 god damn months before you finally start taking it seriously? You are the ONLY company i've ever had this ridiculous problem of not wanting to fix their game. Any other professional company would have taken a game breaking bug seriously and fixed it ASAP because that's the right thing to do. But no not you. We had to beat the crap outta you for you to even make an effort. IT IS AMAZING how much crap your fans put up with here.

  You guys gotta stop taking this so seriously......It's a game...On top of that, If your experiencing crashing with DA maybe YOU should clean your Desktop (sorry laptops, not meant to be) With a compressed air can at the CPU Fan and other fans in your Desktop and run Dragon Age again. I, to be honest, Isn't really mad at Bioware, they try their hardest with these kinds of things, yet we the gamers **** and moan about all these problems when they said they're working on it (I'm talking to you Branji ! I Ain't scared !) and making a bazillion (or thousands) of threads saying "I'm so dissapointed with so-and-so", well heres a helpful hint: If you dont moan and complain and dont act like your in Pre-K every 5 mins. Maybe they actually would tell  you something, but alas, we the gamers are idiots (like me, you and everyone else, well, some people)

P.S.-Keep up the work Bioware! I'm not mad, just following you like a love-stricken puppy waiting for a patc-er I mean bone.

P.S.S.-Seriously! Do something other than complaining about dragonage! like uh, ride a bike? workout? something other than this, It's not healthy. 

[Tirigon]

I would agree that BioWare should consider using the many fixes made by modders already.

[Geeky Assassin]

Tirigon wrote...

I would agree that BioWare should consider using the many fixes made by modders already.

I second this! They should implement Qwins Fixpack into their lastest patch, then they could move on to the bigger problems. It be like using SHAM-WOW !

Modifié par Geeky Assassin, 08 juin 2010 - 01:55 .

[Genocide 6]

Geeky Assassin wrote...

Genocide 6 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.

Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW. We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.

We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.

We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.

Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?

That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.

Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.

We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.

So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.

Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.

Looking back at your disgusting post I have a couple more things to say. About this NOW NOW NOW crap you're spewing outta your mouth. Let me tell you something, everyone was totally calm when the corruption bug was first spotted. Nobody yelled at you or cussed you out and acted like asses demanding a patch NOW NOW NOW. Everyone was understandable about it and kindly asked for a patch. What did bioware do? IGNORED us for 4 months. We all know that's an incredibly rude thing to do. It kind of says we don't give two sh*ts about you. 4 months later, we're STILL god damn waiting. While we're waiting you had plenty of time to release an expansion, some DLC's, but not a single bug fix for the original game. How does that look? You tell me. I honestly thought the mods just totally stopped browsing the xbox tech support forums altogether. You're the only ones to blame why people are fed up and sick of this bs. I wish just one of you would grow some balls and just admit you screwed up and apologize. I didn't register on these forums demanding NOW NOW NOW. I came here with a calm attitude who simply wanted a bug fixed so I can continue playing the game I paid for. And this is the kind of support I get? 8 god damn months before you finally start taking it seriously? You are the ONLY company i've ever had this ridiculous problem of not wanting to fix their game. Any other professional company would have taken a game breaking bug seriously and fixed it ASAP because that's the right thing to do. But no not you. We had to beat the crap outta you for you to even make an effort. IT IS AMAZING how much crap your fans put up with here.

  You guys gotta stop taking this so seriously......It's a game...On top of that, If your experiencing crashing with DA maybe YOU should clean your Desktop (sorry laptops, not meant to be) With a compressed air can at the CPU Fan and other fans in your Desktop and run Dragon Age again. I, to be honest, Isn't really mad at Bioware, they try their hardest with these kinds of things, yet we the gamers **** and moan about all these problems when they said they're working on it (I'm talking to you Branji ! I Ain't scared !) and making a bazillion (or thousands) of threads saying "I'm so dissapointed with so-and-so", well heres a helpful hint: If you dont moan and complain and dont act like your in Pre-K every 5 mins. Maybe they actually would tell  you something, but alas, we the gamers are idiots (like me, you and everyone else, well, some people)

P.S.-Keep up the work Bioware! I'm not mad, just following you like a love-stricken puppy waiting for a patc-er I mean bone.

P.S.S.-Seriously! Do something other than complaining about dragonage! like uh, ride a bike? workout? something other than this, It's not healthy. 

First of all i'm using the xbox. Obviously you didn't read my post right. The game didn't crash. The files CORRUPTED. It is a BUG that happens on the XBOX game.

Like I said I didn't reigster on these forums pissing and moaning. They brought that sh*t outta me because we can only take so much. And NO, acting calm and civilized doesn't get you results either or even a reply. I tried that already. If you pc users had any idea just how bad the xbox support is you'd wouldn't be happy either.

[flagondotcom]

Stanley Woo wrote...
[[...]] Nathan Willis has already mentioned a willingness to engage in more collaborative methods (that's working with the community rather than having the community dictate to us what should be worked on) of patch development. Certainly, we are always trying to do things better.

I've done software development and system integration.  I've also managed a team that was integrating a system for Customer A, but had to rely on patches/updates/required features from Vendor C for a critical subsystem.

By this point in the patch process, there are a list of "issues" that have been identified, some of which will be categorized as "bugs" (others with workarounds or minimal impact may be ignored at this point.)  Of those "bugs" only certain ones will be fixed in 1.04--either because the cause can't be fully identified, or a fix is not reasonable at this point (which may be due to the resources required).  Normally each issue or bug has an associated severity--for example the only reason I can see why the Ancient Elven Boots still weren't fixed on PC in 1.03 was that it got a low severity assigned (and it therefore may be only on the "issues" list and not graded as a bug).

I can live with all of that, and I understand that it's not realistic to make that process fully transparent to the game owners and general public--but if BW truly wants some collaboration then here are some possible improvements:

1.  A *month* ago, someone could have exposed the current list of well-defined issues (just the short title for each issue, what platforms it affects, and possibly the severity.)  That would have allowed folks to be able to see which items BW *had* identified at that point, based on reports, and forumites could have spent less time trying to continue to report issues that BW already had nailed down.  It also would have allowed BW to identify which issues still needed more info to nail down, and folks on this side to help further identify specifics.  (Heck, if I'm going to feel like a beta tester for Awakening, I might as well be able to file beta test reports...)

2.  I'd strongly recommend going ahead *now* and posting that list of well-defined issues--not in terms of committing to fully addressing all of them in 1.04, but stating that anything *not* on that list will definitely *not* be in 1.04.  Why does that help?  Because at this point BW would get better community awareness that things *are* moving forward, and to be honest anyone whose "favorite" issue is not fixed in 1.04 will be complaining then anyway--BW might as well go ahead and be honest about the items that *won't* get fixed.

2a.  Variation:  Post two lists:  the items that are well-defined and are under consideration for 1.04, and the items that are well-defined but are already known not to be fixed in 1.04 (defer to 1.05 or later).  If the Stealing bug is really a big deal and won't be officially fixed in 1.04, better to tell us now...

3.  Item 1. above already didn't happen, and items 2/2a might not.  Even if they don't, though, BW could still post the official "didn't make it into 1.04" list within a week after the patch (preferably the same day).  Ideally that list would have a little additional detail about why something didn't make it into 1.04 -- was it a resource question, or a
"fix not clearly identified" issue, or some other reason (low severity)?  Even just posting the list of "other known issues with severity of 'important' or higher" would help--right now there's a complete blackout on information from my perspective.

Thanks to anyone who read this wall of text.  I'm going to go back to waiting for 1.04, and hoping that we get a useful patch that fixes existing issues before any more DLC.  And yes, I _do_ understand that they're separate teams (for patch and DLC)--and I hope BW understands that I'm *not* buying any more DLC until the purchases I've already made are patched and working as intended. 

[Tirigon]

Flagondotcom made a reasonable post, and I hope Stanley Woo or another mod forwards it to whoever makes the decisions at BioWare.

[bri193]

I haven't been on these boards for months, just popped in and I find this announcement thread!  Read it all, including the patch thread over on PC support. Truely impressed at the level of anger some have towards Bioware's overall incompentance and lack of useful information.

Victor, I will give you this much - you got balls to be the messenger in this situation...

As for Woo...

Stanley Woo wrote...
Where I draw the line is outright hostility and requiring us to go back in time to make things right, or folks who have dug in their heels so much, they won't even give an inch or demonstrate their minds can maybe possibly be changed.

Woo, you can draw a line where ever you want, however, we are still the CUSTOMERS and PAID YOU for a product that should do as advertised. If you think customers do not have rights, or our standards / expectations are too high, then Bioware is in the wrong business, and you should be fired. "Honesty and openly" works boths ways Woo, and right now you and Bioware are sadly short on both,  and on credability...
So, stop whinging about all us nasty people and grow a pair. We don't want corp-speak, excuses, or apologies, we want proper information to see Bioware's progress dealing with the issues, and utlimately concrete results. If you and Bioware cannot deliver this, then you deserve what you get...

And Woo, as a result of your lack of respect for customer opinions, condesending and often insulting remarks, you have indeed changed my mind - I will not be buying any more Bioware products, and will ask as many people as I can to do the same. Small potatoes, I know, but in these times it is the bottom line that speaks loudest ...

Modifié par bri193, 08 juin 2010 - 02:20 .

[Elhanan]

heh! Stan has far, far more respect for the Players than some appear to have for him, other Bioware employees, and probably most others in general. For in my little experience in life, it seems that the most self-focused individuals are often the quickest at pointing to the supposed Bottom Line (ie; lucre) in such debates.

To keep all this on point, I am grateful that there are still products worthy of my own investments, and since NWN, I have witnessed the best QA in a company second only to maybe Disney in Customer Satisfaction. But I am biased; fanboy and all that....

[Geeky Assassin]

Genocide 6 wrote...

Geeky Assassin wrote...

Genocide 6 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.

Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW. We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.

We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.

We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.

Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?

That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.

Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.

We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.

So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.

Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.

Looking back at your disgusting post I have a couple more things to say. About this NOW NOW NOW crap you're spewing outta your mouth. Let me tell you something, everyone was totally calm when the corruption bug was first spotted. Nobody yelled at you or cussed you out and acted like asses demanding a patch NOW NOW NOW. Everyone was understandable about it and kindly asked for a patch. What did bioware do? IGNORED us for 4 months. We all know that's an incredibly rude thing to do. It kind of says we don't give two sh*ts about you. 4 months later, we're STILL god damn waiting. While we're waiting you had plenty of time to release an expansion, some DLC's, but not a single bug fix for the original game. How does that look? You tell me. I honestly thought the mods just totally stopped browsing the xbox tech support forums altogether. You're the only ones to blame why people are fed up and sick of this bs. I wish just one of you would grow some balls and just admit you screwed up and apologize. I didn't register on these forums demanding NOW NOW NOW. I came here with a calm attitude who simply wanted a bug fixed so I can continue playing the game I paid for. And this is the kind of support I get? 8 god damn months before you finally start taking it seriously? You are the ONLY company i've ever had this ridiculous problem of not wanting to fix their game. Any other professional company would have taken a game breaking bug seriously and fixed it ASAP because that's the right thing to do. But no not you. We had to beat the crap outta you for you to even make an effort. IT IS AMAZING how much crap your fans put up with here.

  You guys gotta stop taking this so seriously......It's a game...On top of that, If your experiencing crashing with DA maybe YOU should clean your Desktop (sorry laptops, not meant to be) With a compressed air can at the CPU Fan and other fans in your Desktop and run Dragon Age again. I, to be honest, Isn't really mad at Bioware, they try their hardest with these kinds of things, yet we the gamers **** and moan about all these problems when they said they're working on it (I'm talking to you Branji ! I Ain't scared !) and making a bazillion (or thousands) of threads saying "I'm so dissapointed with so-and-so", well heres a helpful hint: If you dont moan and complain and dont act like your in Pre-K every 5 mins. Maybe they actually would tell  you something, but alas, we the gamers are idiots (like me, you and everyone else, well, some people)

P.S.-Keep up the work Bioware! I'm not mad, just following you like a love-stricken puppy waiting for a patc-er I mean bone.

P.S.S.-Seriously! Do something other than complaining about dragonage! like uh, ride a bike? workout? something other than this, It's not healthy. 

First of all i'm using the xbox. Obviously you didn't read my post right. The game didn't crash. The files CORRUPTED. It is a BUG that happens on the XBOX game.

Like I said I didn't reigster on these forums pissing and moaning. They brought that sh*t outta me because we can only take so much. And NO, acting calm and civilized doesn't get you results either or even a reply. I tried that already. If you pc users had any idea just how bad the xbox support is you'd wouldn't be happy either.

Dude I have an Xbox version too, so I know what your going through, Corrupted Save files and such, Have you ever copied a save file into your Flash drive (if you have one) when using the Xbox ? I've done that before I got a glitch and my save corrupted, then I just plopped in the old save, and viola! back where I was. If that works for you, Then everybody a-happy!

[edgarcabrerauk]

Elhanan wrote...

heh! Stan has far, far more respect for the Players than some appear to have for him, other Bioware employees, and probably most others in general. For in my little experience in life, it seems that the most self-focused individuals are often the quickest at pointing to the supposed Bottom Line (ie; lucre) in such debates.
To keep all this on point, I am grateful that there are still products worthy of my own investments, and since NWN, I have witnessed the best QA in a company second only to maybe Disney in Customer Satisfaction. But I am biased; fanboy and all that....

 
So far, mocking your clients on the face and telling them that there's no responsibility to fix a product is respectful... I do agree with you... you've got little experience in life... 

[Thandal N'Lyman]

flagondotcom wrote...
By this point in the patch process, there are a list of "issues" that have been identified, some of which will be categorized as "bugs" (others with workarounds or minimal impact may be ignored at this point.)  Of those "bugs" only certain ones will be fixed in 1.04--either because the cause can't be fully identified, or a fix is not reasonable at this point (which may be due to the resources required).  Normally each issue or bug has an associated severity--for example the only reason I can see why the Ancient Elven Boots still weren't fixed on PC in 1.03 was that it got a low severity assigned (and it therefore may be only on the "issues" list and not graded as a bug).

@Flagon; Agreed.  BW *should* know better.  See below for a copy of my post of six weeks ago to the Topic: "Bugs with 1.03 patch..." at: http://social.biowar...ndex/1633999/44 (about the middle of the page.)
===========================================================================

Wow! I realized after reading through the last couple pages since Nathan's post that my personal frustration clock had been re-set to begin tracking "time-since-acknowledgement", (it had already gone through waaaaay too many cycles tracking "time-since-first-experienced-and-reported-problem".)

I do believe that an early and clear announcement by Bioware that "We know there's [this] problem." would have helped prevent a good bit of frustration.

But as I am one of the lucky (few?) for whom the FO3 "Large Memory Space" fix seems to have done the trick eliminating my CtD problem, my expectations for the next patch have shifted to the OTHER areas, especially the broken dialogue/plot flags: Alistair called "King" -- when he's NOT, Pickpocketing "Success" -- NOT, etc.

A list of "known/recognized/acknowledged" issues might relieve a good deal more frustration.
It would be asking a lot to get a "severity" or "status" flag with those, but since I'm dreaming... why not?

[For Example:]

a. CtD - Prevalent.  Severity - Critical (Game Unplayable).  Status - Highest Priority.

b. Dog Fetch - Broken.  Severity - Minor (No plot or advancement impacts).  Status - Under consideration.

c. Alistair's Position (post-Anora Rescue) - Internally Inconsistent.  Severity - Moderate (Immersion Impact).  Status - Working to correct.
.
.
.
[etc.]
===========================================================================

But over the past two months (which was already two months behind the issue right there!) the emps/devs have only popped-up on these "official/unofficial" forums about once a month to say, in effect, "We're working on it...", without much real data about what "it" is.

Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 08 juin 2010 - 03:33 .

[Squeelookle]

Hasn't Victor said that the list of what will be in the next patch is incomplete, and will update as more comes back from QA with a green flag? Wait for the full report, it's always posted up with the patch itself.
I personally think Stanley had every right to say what he did. You're being unrealistic. DA is not the only product they have out there that they need to develop fixes for. And as to why it takes so long -- multiple platforms and they also need to test it thoroughly to make sure it doesn't break anything else. And thorough testing means testing using all possibilities and situations. Deal with the wait like the rest of us and at least be thankful they're patching the game at all, which I'm sure wouldn't happen if they didn't care as much as some of you insist is the case.
I think there's a few people working on the Online profile storage problem. Not quite as important (personally) as game-breaking bugs like PC crashes and XBox save corruption.

@Thandal: Good post, you're being a lot more rational about the problems than some people here just assaulting BW.  Also, cute avatar ^^v

Modifié par Squeelookle, 08 juin 2010 - 03:28 .

[BrunoB1971]

I laugh out loud when i hear the severity point coming up in this discussion, so from some point of views here some bugs should not be fixed at all since they are not severe enough?!!!



Is that a joke?



I can hiesntly say that is a small bug would open the door to your operating system and compromise your security as an individual that i am sure you would like to have that small bug fixed.



You can say that you baked a cake when it is in fact half baked. You either go all the way or don't.

Major problems are usually fixed in patches and minor bugs are fixed in hotfixes but not left aside like some seem to imply here.



Anything that is not working as intended no matter how insignificant should be treated with the same importance because in the hand a small snowball rolling down the hill will end up being a big snowball at the bottom.



A minor bug might affect the outcome of the game or change your desired experience about the game. so no! any and every bug is a bug and it should be fixed.



nuff said.

[dragonsouce]

What's the release date? On this promised miracle cure? Any Idea and will they test the the thing in beta volunteer group or are they just planning to unleash it on us like 1.03,A.K.A the Black Plague and Hope for the best without testing. Then act all surprised when it crashes.

Sorry I stop acting Mad When people Stop acting Stupid.
No Beta just irresponsible like not using a condom, It's not a guarantee to catch every think but Responsible thing, it's just good practice to do.

Modifié par dragonsouce, 08 juin 2010 - 09:55 .

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

Geeky Assassin wrote...

Genocide 6 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.

Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW. We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.

We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.

We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.

Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?

That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.

Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.

We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.

So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.

Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.

Looking back at your disgusting post I have a couple more things to say. About this NOW NOW NOW crap you're spewing outta your mouth. Let me tell you something, everyone was totally calm when the corruption bug was first spotted. Nobody yelled at you or cussed you out and acted like asses demanding a patch NOW NOW NOW. Everyone was understandable about it and kindly asked for a patch. What did bioware do? IGNORED us for 4 months. We all know that's an incredibly rude thing to do. It kind of says we don't give two sh*ts about you. 4 months later, we're STILL god damn waiting. While we're waiting you had plenty of time to release an expansion, some DLC's, but not a single bug fix for the original game. How does that look? You tell me. I honestly thought the mods just totally stopped browsing the xbox tech support forums altogether. You're the only ones to blame why people are fed up and sick of this bs. I wish just one of you would grow some balls and just admit you screwed up and apologize. I didn't register on these forums demanding NOW NOW NOW. I came here with a calm attitude who simply wanted a bug fixed so I can continue playing the game I paid for. And this is the kind of support I get? 8 god damn months before you finally start taking it seriously? You are the ONLY company i've ever had this ridiculous problem of not wanting to fix their game. Any other professional company would have taken a game breaking bug seriously and fixed it ASAP because that's the right thing to do. But no not you. We had to beat the crap outta you for you to even make an effort. IT IS AMAZING how much crap your fans put up with here.

  You guys gotta stop taking this so seriously......It's a game...On top of that, If your experiencing crashing with DA maybe YOU should clean your Desktop (sorry laptops, not meant to be) With a compressed air can at the CPU Fan and other fans in your Desktop and run Dragon Age again. I, to be honest, Isn't really mad at Bioware, they try their hardest with these kinds of things, yet we the gamers **** and moan about all these problems when they said they're working on it (I'm talking to you Branji ! I Ain't scared !) and making a bazillion (or thousands) of threads saying "I'm so dissapointed with so-and-so", well heres a helpful hint: If you dont moan and complain and dont act like your in Pre-K every 5 mins. Maybe they actually would tell  you something, but alas, we the gamers are idiots (like me, you and everyone else, well, some people)

P.S.-Keep up the work Bioware! I'm not mad, just following you like a love-stricken puppy waiting for a patc-er I mean bone.

P.S.S.-Seriously! Do something other than complaining about dragonage! like uh, ride a bike? workout? something other than this, It's not healthy. 

to be blunt. my computer is brand new and i get crash to desktop. there is no reaosn to use my can of air o n it because its sterile still. the crashes are not the hardwares fault, its the game code.

[Arttis]

not possible to play DA for 15k hours.

If you cna make it through the game once you can do it again.

Also what game is without any bugs?