674 réponses à ce sujet

[Drewbahr]

Funny how it takes nearly 7 months for Bioware to start commenting on their royal screw-ups, and the first things they do are lock a bunch of threads, hand out 24-hour bans, and (as Stanley Woo here has shown) start acting smart-assed towards their customers.



Stay classy, Bioware.

[BrunoB1971]

To Stanley:



I don't think nobody has anything against you personnally, i don't and why should i...



The problem is that you talk on behalf of Bioware which is a company or corporation and you speak like a corporate person.



You are trying to explain the process of what is going on at your company and i do understand "red tape" because i work for IT for the government of my province and all i see is that it may take someone or a group a couple of weeks to make a decision that could have been made by one person in a few minutes..because it's gotta be discussed over and over and over again and gotta follow standard operating procedures to get done.



But 7 months of talk to fix simple things is more than enough. At some points, meetings have to stop and someone has to move and do something other than talk about how things should go about or be resolved.



People here don't want to know how a company works...most of us go thru this every day anyways and we know this. What we want to know is when, how much and the reasons why it took so long to even come up with a plan.



Bureaucracy is getting in the way of managing an IP. Someone has to wake up and come out of that bureaucracy fairyland and make things happen.



Anything you say here will be discredited by people because you are replying with comments that people do not care about or represent the bureaucratic side of your company.



You should think more of putting yourself in aneutral position where you defend the opinions of the gamers while representing your company as they want you to do.



I know that if we mess up in our department we will hear about it and i go out of my way to be respect our users and empatize with them with their problem and do everything i can to help them out while falling in the guidelines of my department even if i know that the user screwed up or did something he was not supposed to do to his or her machine.



I have to go thru my day while defending both sides and representing both sides and helping both sides.



I wish you could see this and make a sincere effort to be neutral and stop making excuses that no one cares about and talk like a gamer instead of a corporate representative.



I am sure that if you would come here and say that everything that Qwinn has fixed will be "looked into" and we have an even bigger list of bug fixes and are working hard on fixing the ctd and memory hogging issues and are looking into balancing the game better that a lot of people would just shut up.



As long as you keep saying that you gotta " discuss this thru a commitee" as han solo would say you are just putting gasoline on the fire and people will just throw matches on the fire to keep it going, myself included.



nuff said for now...

[edgarcabrerauk]

A sensible post from BrunoB1971, I'd like to add that to give a public apology with regards of your comments about patches and EULA (yes, you Mr. Woo). that would be a good start.



Since BrunoB1971 works in the government sector and he says 7 months is too much time, that speaks volumes... believe me, talking about delays and politics, no one beats the government environment...

[sandslayer76]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

A sensible post from BrunoB1971, I'd like to add that to give a public apology with regards of your comments about patches and EULA (yes, you Mr. Woo). that would be a good start.

Since BrunoB1971 works in the government sector and he says 7 months is too much time, that speaks volumes... believe me, talking about delays and politics, no one beats the government environment...

I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures, every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around.

Bioware is not a government paper-and-law based system. Also, don't give us that line about 7 months being too long for legislation to pass. Some issues can be argued out, fillibustered, protested, rewritten, etc. for YEARS.

Bioware is a game designing corporation, and thus if they put out a faulty product, they will be screamed at relentlessly by angry people. Dragon Age is a brilliant game, and is NOT broken, despite the many protests otherwise. As far as I've seen, there are no game breaking bugs, and there are only a couple serious quest-breaking bugs. All in all, considering the hoops the company has to jump through, that's pretty good considering how massive Dragon Age is.

My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken. Jowan is one of my favourite NPC's (Hey, Bioware! Future DLC = Jowan as recruitable Party Member! I know it's a good idea and you do too!) and it always irked me that I couldn't finish his story if I decide to free him from Redcliffe.

Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!

Modifié par sandslayer76, 10 juin 2010 - 10:45 .

[Drewbahr]

sandslayer76 -

It's most definitely a broken product, considering I've lost at least two save files to save corruption bugs. Those are CERTAINLY game-breaking bugs. Or are you blissfully unaware of the 7-month-long thread over on the 360 Technical Support forums detailing a number of game-breaking threads?

[edgarcabrerauk]

sandslayer76 wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

A sensible post from BrunoB1971, I'd like to add that to give a public apology with regards of your comments about patches and EULA (yes, you Mr. Woo). that would be a good start.

Since BrunoB1971 works in the government sector and he says 7 months is too much time, that speaks volumes... believe me, talking about delays and politics, no one beats the government environment...

I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures, every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around.

Bioware is not a government paper-and-law based system. Also, don't give us that line about 7 months being too long for legislation to pass. Some issues can be argued out, fillibustered, protested, rewritten, etc. for YEARS.

Bioware is a game designing corporation, and thus if they put out a faulty product, they will be screamed at relentlessly by angry people. Dragon Age is a brilliant game, and is NOT broken, despite the many protests otherwise. As far as I've seen, there are no game breaking bugs, and there are only a couple serious quest-breaking bugs. All in all, considering the hoops the company has to jump through, that's pretty good considering how massive Dragon Age is.

My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken. Jowan is one of my favourite NPC's (Hey, Bioware! Future DLC = Jowan as recruitable Party Member! I know it's a good idea and you do too!) and it always irked me that I couldn't finish his story if I decide to free him from Redcliffe.

Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!

Since you miss the whole point, let me clarify, when I mentioned government, I was referring to IT, not the whole government as an entity...

"I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures "... exactly, you don't know, here's why:

"every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around"... ehem, the red tape concept applies only where is bureaucracy involved, any software development involves methodology, not bureaucracy.... it seems you don't know that fact.... the more bugs you tackle, the longer it takes to fixing them.... 7 months to fix 3 bugs.... besides, there are Agile methodologies that are applied to develop and to deliver patches..

please, do not try to justify incompetence... you speak as someone who is outside such an environment, not to mention to work for.... please be accurate and give facts instead of giving the impression of because you say so, the game is not broken... because it works for you and it's "brilliant"....

As for the "fans" remark, to point out the defects and request for a fixing, does it seem like a fan speaking?...

BUT claiming : "Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!"

despite of this: "My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken."... 

does denote a fan speaking.... if this is not illogical for you, therefore your whole post is either illogical... or plainly fanatic...

Modifié par edgarcabrerauk, 10 juin 2010 - 11:49 .

[BrunoB1971]

At my department we have a contract that stipulates that we have a 48 business hours turnaround solution policy to solve problems. That is an entire week, Which in fact is very long in some case.

Most of the problems we have can be resolved almost immediately but i did find myself to have to do research for a couple of weeks in order to find a solution to a problem.

We have to get things working in our government because if we do not we have a domino effect and it can up costing a lot of people a lot of money in the end.

example: If we have a broken software that issues constructions permits, it has to be fixed a.s.a.p because if we don't, we are holding off a contractor and thus holding off his employees and holding off the time frame to have the house built. It is a domino effect and we need to try to avoid that at all costs.

Mind you the software industry is different but at the same time the same. As a very simplified analogy...if windows 7 would have a OS crushing bug i am sure that microsoft would not let it slide for 7 months and put people on this to be resolved a.s.a.p because it is critical for some people to have a working OS. Their reputation is at stake and the domino effect it might create would not be very welcomed.

Ok Games are different and you do not need to use them all the time but nonetheless you have to make sure that your software is not crippled and if it is to release a patch in a timely manner.


nuff said for now...back to work...

Modifié par BrunoB1971, 10 juin 2010 - 01:28 .

[Chairon de Celeste]

I hope the empty c++ function calls on entering / leaving  the Lothering Chantry , Dane's Refuge
and Redcliffe Chantry will be adressed as well (happoens after exploring town / village
for a while without save, exit and load  on both pc and xbox (ps3 as well?).
While fellow pc version players have already created flimsy workarounds wich aren't fiit
for sharing with the community, console players are on their own there.

A lot of folks, from what I hear, have already uninstalled Awakening 4 pc in order to go back
to  1.02a, just to have community content show up again free of ordeals.
The 1.03 side effects concerning that should be adressed asap.

[Squeelookle]

edgarcaberauk
I really don't see why they should apologise for the End User License Agreement.
It's a standard legal document which clearly states the sofware is provided "as-is".  Basically, they worked on the game to make it working and playble, with all features intact.  A few people had problems, and they patched it to 1.01, which is when the **** started hitting the fan.  Then people started whining about the Rogue daggers not causing proper damage, or the bows were too weak or some such, fixed.  Then people started whining about how OP the AOE spells were and that was dealt with, as well as the repeated offense of Winter's Grasp.  Grand, happy days.
I do agree that the Crash-A-Thon introduced in PC patch 1.03 is breaking something in order to fix it.

Relax.  It's entirely due to people wanting things that aren't broken to be fixed.  The only two things I want are:
Mabari packs can STILL overwhelm you to death.
The Crash-A-Thon stops me playing the game, though it seems prevalent in Orzammar.

On a side note, when people were saying the game crashes at/after the Landsmeet, I never had that problem.
But I do like the way it doesn't take all effing day to crash to desktop like some other games I can mention.

Modifié par Squeelookle, 10 juin 2010 - 02:39 .

[Elhanan]

If I were Bio, I would leave this thread open, but abandon any intent of reading it. Just stop by and *nod* once in a while, and move on to more life affirming areas of the forums.

[sandslayer76]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

sandslayer76 wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

A sensible post from BrunoB1971, I'd like to add that to give a public apology with regards of your comments about patches and EULA (yes, you Mr. Woo). that would be a good start.

Since BrunoB1971 works in the government sector and he says 7 months is too much time, that speaks volumes... believe me, talking about delays and politics, no one beats the government environment...

I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures, every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around.

Bioware is not a government paper-and-law based system. Also, don't give us that line about 7 months being too long for legislation to pass. Some issues can be argued out, fillibustered, protested, rewritten, etc. for YEARS.

Bioware is a game designing corporation, and thus if they put out a faulty product, they will be screamed at relentlessly by angry people. Dragon Age is a brilliant game, and is NOT broken, despite the many protests otherwise. As far as I've seen, there are no game breaking bugs, and there are only a couple serious quest-breaking bugs. All in all, considering the hoops the company has to jump through, that's pretty good considering how massive Dragon Age is.

My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken. Jowan is one of my favourite NPC's (Hey, Bioware! Future DLC = Jowan as recruitable Party Member! I know it's a good idea and you do too!) and it always irked me that I couldn't finish his story if I decide to free him from Redcliffe.

Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!

Since you miss the whole point, let me clarify, when I mentioned government, I was referring to IT, not the whole government as an entity...

"I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures "... exactly, you don't know, here's why:

"every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around"... ehem, the red tape concept applies only where is bureaucracy involved, any software development involves methodology, not bureaucracy.... it seems you don't know that fact.... the more bugs you tackle, the longer it takes to fixing them.... 7 months to fix 3 bugs.... besides, there are Agile methodologies that are applied to develop and to deliver patches..

please, do not try to justify incompetence... you speak as someone who is outside such an environment, not to mention to work for.... please be accurate and give facts instead of giving the impression of because you say so, the game is not broken... because it works for you and it's "brilliant"....

As for the "fans" remark, to point out the defects and request for a fixing, does it seem like a fan speaking?...

BUT claiming : "Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!"

despite of this: "My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken."... 

does denote a fan speaking.... if this is not illogical for you, therefore your whole post is either illogical... or plainly fanatic...

Okay, okay. I see you're fond of starting fights. Despite your insistence on anger-filled posts, I will ignore that and delve into the actual issues.

Your complaint seems to be centered around how Bioware has only released information on three bugs they have confirmed as being fixed in the patch. One of these is the 360 bug revolving around corrupted saves. Since this is confirmed to be fixed in the next patch (take special note of that), then you should be grateful the gamebreaking issues that exist will be dealt with. It will soon no longer be an issue.

Every other bug, so far as to my knowledge, is NOT game breaking, thus you shouldn't whine about Bioware delivering nonworking products. Considering how clearly the majority (read: MAJORITY) of players have fully played through the game without encountering a game breaking bug causing them to lose tens of hours of game play, you might as well just give up on being such a spoiled prat about this issue. You're in the minority, and thus will not always get exactly what you want exactly when you want it. Get used to real life.

Also, I would not consider myself a fan of Bioware. I've only ever bought one title from them, that being Dragon Age. I loved it, surely, but fanaticism is a two way street, kid. I am willing to show appreciation for a job well done, and Dragon Age is surely that. Me pointing out a broken quest is due to my personal issues. Yes, I would be angry if Jowan's Intention is never fixed. A fanatic would not, opting instead to forever rationalize Bioware's decisions regarding it. You, however, are only content with complaining about it, yelling at whoever disagrees with you and insulting them. Is this productive? I wouldn't think so. Is it fanatical? Yes indeed.

Calling me illogical, fanatical as well as acknowledging I have a legitimate issue with the game is...well... baffling that you'd connect all that together. Why would I be illogical for being optimistic, or choosing to show what I want to be fixed in a positive matter rather than negative? I prefer not to start rages on the internet over a simple game.

You sir, are an angry person. See a therapist and stop obsessing over a video game. Just wait. Your patch will be out soon enough and your game breaking bugs will be fixed. Even if it isn't fixed, remember that video games are no replacement for social interaction. If all else fails, why not just give up on video games for awhile, instead focusing on reality until your bugs are fixed?

[Callidus Thorn]

Elhanan wrote...

If I were Bio, I would leave this thread open, but abandon any intent of reading it. Just stop by and *nod* once in a while, and move on to more life affirming areas of the forums.

If bioware didn't want reports of bugs in their game, they should've made it better.
If bioware didn't want irate owners pissed off at them, they should have fixed the game BEFORE releasing DLC.

I just want to be able to play the game as specified in the manual, if I can't the game is broken and should be promptly fixed.

[baldmop]

        Mr. Woo  if anyone hasn't said so Thank you for the dialogue at present . I understand the anger and resentment from the people here but I think there is no reason to be as hostile as some are say your piece people and move on .Update
on the next Dragon Age patch release (June 4, 2010)   This is what I would like to read about though this going back and forth between people has been comical .

Modifié par baldmop, 10 juin 2010 - 03:05 .

[edgarcabrerauk]

sandslayer76 wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

sandslayer76 wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

A sensible post from BrunoB1971, I'd like to add that to give a public apology with regards of your comments about patches and EULA (yes, you Mr. Woo). that would be a good start.

Since BrunoB1971 works in the government sector and he says 7 months is too much time, that speaks volumes... believe me, talking about delays and politics, no one beats the government environment...

I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures, every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around.

Bioware is not a government paper-and-law based system. Also, don't give us that line about 7 months being too long for legislation to pass. Some issues can be argued out, fillibustered, protested, rewritten, etc. for YEARS.

Bioware is a game designing corporation, and thus if they put out a faulty product, they will be screamed at relentlessly by angry people. Dragon Age is a brilliant game, and is NOT broken, despite the many protests otherwise. As far as I've seen, there are no game breaking bugs, and there are only a couple serious quest-breaking bugs. All in all, considering the hoops the company has to jump through, that's pretty good considering how massive Dragon Age is.

My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken. Jowan is one of my favourite NPC's (Hey, Bioware! Future DLC = Jowan as recruitable Party Member! I know it's a good idea and you do too!) and it always irked me that I couldn't finish his story if I decide to free him from Redcliffe.

Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!

Since you miss the whole point, let me clarify, when I mentioned government, I was referring to IT, not the whole government as an entity...

"I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures "... exactly, you don't know, here's why:

"every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around"... ehem, the red tape concept applies only where is bureaucracy involved, any software development involves methodology, not bureaucracy.... it seems you don't know that fact.... the more bugs you tackle, the longer it takes to fixing them.... 7 months to fix 3 bugs.... besides, there are Agile methodologies that are applied to develop and to deliver patches..

please, do not try to justify incompetence... you speak as someone who is outside such an environment, not to mention to work for.... please be accurate and give facts instead of giving the impression of because you say so, the game is not broken... because it works for you and it's "brilliant"....

As for the "fans" remark, to point out the defects and request for a fixing, does it seem like a fan speaking?...

BUT claiming : "Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!"

despite of this: "My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken."... 

does denote a fan speaking.... if this is not illogical for you, therefore your whole post is either illogical... or plainly fanatic...

Okay, okay. I see you're fond of starting fights. Despite your insistence on anger-filled posts, I will ignore that and delve into the actual issues.

Your complaint seems to be centered around how Bioware has only released information on three bugs they have confirmed as being fixed in the patch. One of these is the 360 bug revolving around corrupted saves. Since this is confirmed to be fixed in the next patch (take special note of that), then you should be grateful the gamebreaking issues that exist will be dealt with. It will soon no longer be an issue.

Every other bug, so far as to my knowledge, is NOT game breaking, thus you shouldn't whine about Bioware delivering nonworking products. Considering how clearly the majority (read: MAJORITY) of players have fully played through the game without encountering a game breaking bug causing them to lose tens of hours of game play, you might as well just give up on being such a spoiled prat about this issue. You're in the minority, and thus will not always get exactly what you want exactly when you want it. Get used to real life.

Also, I would not consider myself a fan of Bioware. I've only ever bought one title from them, that being Dragon Age. I loved it, surely, but fanaticism is a two way street, kid. I am willing to show appreciation for a job well done, and Dragon Age is surely that. Me pointing out a broken quest is due to my personal issues. Yes, I would be angry if Jowan's Intention is never fixed. A fanatic would not, opting instead to forever rationalize Bioware's decisions regarding it. You, however, are only content with complaining about it, yelling at whoever disagrees with you and insulting them. Is this productive? I wouldn't think so. Is it fanatical? Yes indeed.

Calling me illogical, fanatical as well as acknowledging I have a legitimate issue with the game is...well... baffling that you'd connect all that together. Why would I be illogical for being optimistic, or choosing to show what I want to be fixed in a positive matter rather than negative? I prefer not to start rages on the internet over a simple game.

You sir, are an angry person. See a therapist and stop obsessing over a video game. Just wait. Your patch will be out soon enough and your game breaking bugs will be fixed. Even if it isn't fixed, remember that video games are no replacement for social interaction. If all else fails, why not just give up on video games for awhile, instead focusing on reality until your bugs are fixed?

Ehem, you started to quote my posting... I can see anger in you, perhaps the meds didn't work today. You came with all those comments after a sensible post from another member... and agreeing with your words: " remember that video games are no replacement for social interaction." which you just showed lack of them... take a break and look at perspective... the discussion is about a faulty product delivered by a company with no support and respect for its customers, aside from your personal opinions, the game's got defects, otherwise people "angry, not just giving up on video games" like me, wouldn't be complaining.... as for your false statement: "MAJORITY" please, post a scientific study depicting the number of clients with no issues playing DAO... thank you for show your "reality", kid... 

At the end of the day, having the game properly patched, will make your game experience better... perhaps your Jowan's issue is patched, too... 

Modifié par edgarcabrerauk, 10 juin 2010 - 03:45 .

[BrunoB1971]

Again as i read into this thread, some see white, some people see black...a lot fo people fail to see the grey in this.



Those who see white fail to see that if ther game "was" that bug free..we would not have this thread to begin with...and we would not have hundreds of threads about bugs in the game. But if your game works fine then more power to you. I have played games that were told to be buggy and went to play thru them just fine. It depends on what annoys you and the degree of tolerance that you have.



Those on the black side of things have proven thru many threads that there is indeed problems with the game, Tallbear has written many work arounds for the program, Qwinn has provided a patch and even Bioware has acknowledge issues and made FAQ on how to solve some issues so the game is indeed buggy or whatever state you want to call it in...





In this case you have to be gray, acknowledge the people that dont have any problems and apaprently there is and respect their opinions but also at the same time those people should stop saying that the other side is completely wrong because there is more proof that the game is broken than there is threads about the game being clean and playable.



As for Bioware they have been clearly one sided in this debate and it is a shame that it is at that point as we speak....

[bzombo]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Andari_Surana wrote...
I know Qwinn would like a bioware job, it says so on his website.  If he's been fixing your dang games since 2001, its about time u put someone who loves the genre, and is a stickler for detail - i.e. mechanics working as intended, quests working as intended, etc - on your bug team.  He's already proved he is 1000x faster at fixing bugs then your entire patch team, which proves the point - as a programmer myself - that 90% of these bugs are easily fixable.  U'r patch team needs some guidance (or perhaps the problem is u don't have one?).  Put Qwinn on your payroll, he has a recognized name of these forums, pay him well, get him working on dao, and then da2, and then maybe you'll turn around this BP of public relations disasters.

Again, no knocking Qwinn, since I think modders who do this sort of bug-fixing on their own initiative is pretty awesome, but it's easy to fix bugs quickly when you have no deadlines, no accountability, no schedule, no other tasks, no payment (which means no expectations), no need to attend meetings, and no need to go through any offical channels, certifications, approvals, planning, or having it be an official patch.

The same way I could bake a batch of cookies and sell them faster than Mr. Christie could come up with a similar recipe, since I don't have to worry about mass production, facilities, hiring staff, permits, taxes, safety standards, certifications, testing, distribution channels, retail agreements, boards of directors, packaging, financial planning, shelf life, marketing, allergies, or pleasing anyone's tastes except myself. It doesn't mean I'm better than Christie, or that I would do any better work if I worked for Christie. It just means that a hobbyist with time and dedication has some freedom that companies don't.

i understand where you're coming from stan, but you gotta admit qwinn is pretty damn good. as far as i can tell, none of his fixes have broken anything. he does quality work. maybe even taking his fixpack and incorporating it into the patch and giving him some kind of recognition would be a good idea.

[Apex Sammoth]

sandslayer76 wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

A sensible post from BrunoB1971, I'd like to add that to give a public apology with regards of your comments about patches and EULA (yes, you Mr. Woo). that would be a good start.

Since BrunoB1971 works in the government sector and he says 7 months is too much time, that speaks volumes... believe me, talking about delays and politics, no one beats the government environment...

I want to point out that, although I can't say for sure because I don't work for Bioware and don't know their procedures, every time they add a fix into the game, they have to test it to makes sure it is completely safe. This is a time consuming process, of course, not to mention all the red tape they skim around.

Bioware is not a government paper-and-law based system. Also, don't give us that line about 7 months being too long for legislation to pass. Some issues can be argued out, fillibustered, protested, rewritten, etc. for YEARS.

Bioware is a game designing corporation, and thus if they put out a faulty product, they will be screamed at relentlessly by angry people. Dragon Age is a brilliant game, and is NOT broken, despite the many protests otherwise. As far as I've seen, there are no game breaking bugs, and there are only a couple serious quest-breaking bugs. All in all, considering the hoops the company has to jump through, that's pretty good considering how massive Dragon Age is.

My main problem is how "Jowan's Intention" is broken. Jowan is one of my favourite NPC's (Hey, Bioware! Future DLC = Jowan as recruitable Party Member! I know it's a good idea and you do too!) and it always irked me that I couldn't finish his story if I decide to free him from Redcliffe.

Keep up the good work, Bioware, and don't let a few angry, illogical fans get the better of you. Your work is absolutely brilliant and I eagerly await any future content!

Huh how can you say the Game is not broken yet an NPC is broken in the same post.

Besides your missing the point of this whole thread. The problem was that the game has some major issues on certain platforms. PC and Xbox to name a few. Xbox has Corrupted saves since release and the PC has CTD %100 Processor issues just to name a few. These are in NO WAY small Bugs. These are Game Breaking issues and have been present since Nov 2009. 1.03 was relesed and really nothing was fixed so If you want to say it works great for you then fine but, to sit here and say the game is not broke is just an assumtion made by you. Try doing a search on these threads before posting "It's not Broke Don't Fix It Post".

Modifié par Apex Sammoth, 10 juin 2010 - 03:40 .

[bzombo]

BrunoB1971 wrote...

Again as i read into this thread, some see white, some people see black...a lot fo people fail to see the grey in this.

Those who see white fail to see that if ther game "was" that bug free..we would not have this thread to begin with...and we would not have hundreds of threads about bugs in the game. But if your game works fine then more power to you. I have played games that were told to be buggy and went to play thru them just fine. It depends on what annoys you and the degree of tolerance that you have.

Those on the black side of things have proven thru many threads that there is indeed problems with the game, Tallbear has written many work arounds for the program, Qwinn has provided a patch and even Bioware has acknowledge issues and made FAQ on how to solve some issues so the game is indeed buggy or whatever state you want to call it in...


In this case you have to be gray, acknowledge the people that dont have any problems and apaprently there is and respect their opinions but also at the same time those people should stop saying that the other side is completely wrong because there is more proof that the game is broken than there is threads about the game being clean and playable.

As for Bioware they have been clearly one sided in this debate and it is a shame that it is at that point as we speak....

understood, but let's be honest here. who is going to come on and start a thread about the game not having bugs? very few. people post on the internet much more about what angers or frustrates them than something that just does what it says it will do.

[edgarcabrerauk]

Squeelookle wrote...

edgarcaberauk
I really don't see why they should apologise for the End User License Agreement.
It's a standard legal document which clearly states the sofware is provided "as-is".  Basically, they worked on the game to make it working and playble, with all features intact.  A few people had problems, and they patched it to 1.01, which is when the **** started hitting the fan.  Then people started whining about the Rogue daggers not causing proper damage, or the bows were too weak or some such, fixed.  Then people started whining about how OP the AOE spells were and that was dealt with, as well as the repeated offense of Winter's Grasp.  Grand, happy days.
I do agree that the Crash-A-Thon introduced in PC patch 1.03 is breaking something in order to fix it.

Relax.  It's entirely due to people wanting things that aren't broken to be fixed.  The only two things I want are:
Mabari packs can STILL overwhelm you to death.
The Crash-A-Thon stops me playing the game, though it seems prevalent in Orzammar.

On a side note, when people were saying the game crashes at/after the Landsmeet, I never had that problem.
But I do like the way it doesn't take all effing day to crash to desktop like some other games I can mention.

Just a little of history, the EULA started as a protecting of any modification that software might have by the user, for example, you deliver a program with a source code, it is delivered "as is" if the user modifies such code, the user is breaking the EULA, from wikipedia;

"Many EULAs assert extensive liability limitations. Most commonly, a EULA will attempt to hold harmless the software licensor in the event that the software causes damage to the user's computer or data, but some software also proposes limitations on whether the licensor can be held liable for damage that arises through improper use of the software (for example, incorrectly using tax preparation software and incurring penalties as a result). One case upholding such limitations on consequential damages is M.A. Mortenson Co. v. Timberline Software Corp., et al. Some EULAs also claim restrictions on venue and applicable law in the event that a legal dispute arises.Some copyright owners use EULAs in an effort to circumvent limitations the applicable copyright law places on their copyrights (such as the limitations in sections 107-122 of the United States Copyright Act), or to expand the scope of control over the work into areas for which copyright protection is denied by law (such as attempting to charge for, regulate or prevent private performances of a work beyond a certain number of performances or beyond a certain period of time). Such EULAs are, in essence, efforts to gain control, by contract, over matters upon which copyright law precludes control."

The EULA, never states the acceptance of a "defective" software "as is", is does states the acceptance of right use and copyright of the software "as is"....

The way Mr. Woo used the EULA as an argument to not deliver patches is totally wrong...

[Chairon de Celeste]

Ack, the ctd I mentionend earlier are *not* the result of a patch.

Guess it is a safe bet it took 7 months+ also because of some pressing
release day deadlines - business contracts are usually quitre clear
about the consequences of faiiling those

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 10 juin 2010 - 03:45 .

[edgarcabrerauk]

BrunoB1971 wrote...

Again as i read into this thread, some see white, some people see black...a lot fo people fail to see the grey in this.

Those who see white fail to see that if ther game "was" that bug free..we would not have this thread to begin with...and we would not have hundreds of threads about bugs in the game. But if your game works fine then more power to you. I have played games that were told to be buggy and went to play thru them just fine. It depends on what annoys you and the degree of tolerance that you have.

Those on the black side of things have proven thru many threads that there is indeed problems with the game, Tallbear has written many work arounds for the program, Qwinn has provided a patch and even Bioware has acknowledge issues and made FAQ on how to solve some issues so the game is indeed buggy or whatever state you want to call it in...


In this case you have to be gray, acknowledge the people that dont have any problems and apaprently there is and respect their opinions but also at the same time those people should stop saying that the other side is completely wrong because there is more proof that the game is broken than there is threads about the game being clean and playable.

As for Bioware they have been clearly one sided in this debate and it is a shame that it is at that point as we speak....

Indeed, the most logical position of BW should have been to acknowledge the bugs and deliver patches in a timely manner, simple... otherwise these kind of discussions wouldn't arise and everyone would be happy. Instead, we are getting involved in black and white sides meanwhile BW is sitting there with arms crossed and smiling... 

As I mentioned before, Bioware, just carry on and deliver results if you are truly committed to regain the trust of your clients.

[sandslayer76]

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

Ehem, you started to quote my posting... I can see anger in you, perhaps the meds didn't work today. You came with all those comments after a sensible post from another member... and agreeing with your words: " remember that video games are no replacement for social interaction." which you just showed lack of them... take a break and look at perspective... the discussion is about a faulty product delivered by a company with no support and respect for its customers, aside from your personal opinions, the game's got defects, otherwise people "angry, not just giving up on video games" like me, wouldn't be complaining.... as for your false statement: "MAJORITY" please, post a scientific study depicting the number of clients with no issues playing DAO... thank you for show your "reality", kid... 

At the end of the day, having the game properly patched, will make your game experience better... perhaps your Jowan's issue is patched, too... 

Not going to bother arguing. There's no convicing you otherwise it seems. Nevermind how we both agree there are issues, and nevermind how I'm trying to keep this from devolving into a mindless ****-throwing fest you instead decide to respond with harshness and anger. If your only response are insults without legitimate, nonemotional backing then I will show myself to be the better man.

Before this continues further, this mini-argument is over. Be a respectable person and stop whining about the game. I've already decided not to care about issues in a game I've already thoroughly enjoyed. I am content, though you are only satisfied with complaining. How sad that you can't see the bright side of life and just enjoy yourself.

Modifié par sandslayer76, 10 juin 2010 - 04:06 .

[Arthur Cousland]

Well, it's nice to see that some progress is being made. I actually wasn't expecting anything that wasn't required, like 1.03 for Awakening. My next character is planned to be a dagger based rogue too, so the patching is coming at a good time. Hopefully most of the remaining issues will be addressed before DA2 comes out. If not, then people will expect more of the same with the next game, in regards to unfixed bugs and other issues.

[edgarcabrerauk]

sandslayer76 wrote...

edgarcabrerauk wrote...

Ehem, you started to quote my posting... I can see anger in you, perhaps the meds didn't work today. You came with all those comments after a sensible post from another member... and agreeing with your words: " remember that video games are no replacement for social interaction." which you just showed lack of them... take a break and look at perspective... the discussion is about a faulty product delivered by a company with no support and respect for its customers, aside from your personal opinions, the game's got defects, otherwise people "angry, not just giving up on video games" like me, wouldn't be complaining.... as for your false statement: "MAJORITY" please, post a scientific study depicting the number of clients with no issues playing DAO... thank you for show your "reality", kid... 

At the end of the day, having the game properly patched, will make your game experience better... perhaps your Jowan's issue is patched, too... 

Not going to bother arguing. There's no convicing you otherwise it seems. Nevermind how we both agree there are issues, and nevermind how I'm trying to keep this from devolving into a mindless ****-throwing fest you instead decide to respond with harshness and anger. If your only response are insults without legitimate, nonemotional backing then I will show myself to be the better man.

Before this continues further, this mini-argument is over. Be a respectable person and stop whining about the game. I've already decided not to care about issues in a game I've already thoroughly enjoyed. I am content, though you are only satisfied with complaining. How sad that you can't see the bright side of life and just enjoy yourself.

I'm glad you see your bright side of life... and you put no emotions and you are a the better man...  despite it seems quite the contrary, as for myself, I'm glad you stop this no sense.... thank you

[medievalmiss]

I have watched this discussion from the beginning, and though I usually don't comment, just read, I felt that it might be helpful to the discussion to insert some English teacher/Socratic discussion into the debate.

It seems that before you can state whether or not a game is "broken", you have to define the word "broken". Does this mean that if there is one bug, it is broken? Two bugs? Must they be game-breaking bugs, or quest-breaking bugs, or immersion-breaking bugs, or just any bug? The same examples would apply for the word "buggy". And again, what is the definition of "game-breaking"? It's hard to debate whether a game is "broken" without a consensus on what that word actually means to the people participating in the debate.

What would be an acceptable amount of bugs? What statistics are any one of the posters using? From what I can determine, there are many different levels of difficulties that gamers are experiencing, from not being able to play the game at all to merely minorly irritating bugs. The only thing that could truly be determined statistically by users on this forum is exactly how many people have posted about each particular bug or playthrough, and that only if you read through every post in every thread. And even that would not tell you about the experiences of the thousands, or hundreds of thousands, who do not visit the forums and/or have not posted there. So, generalizations that the game is totally flawed for most people, or is totally flawed for only a few, are only that, generalizations.

As I see it, the only facts are this:

1) Some people have game-breaking bugs.

2) Some people don't have many bugs at all.

3) Some people have somewhere in between.

None of the above precludes the point that Bioware has been pretty conspicuously silent for the last couple of months, at least. Though understandable that they would hesitate to comment on the forums for fear of exactly the backlash they are receiving now, that doesn't absolve them of the responsibility to do so, When I have a student who is failing my class, the last thing I want to do is to call that student's parents and possibly have them chew me out, whether it is my fault or not. By virtue of the fact that I agreed to take payment for teaching that student, however, it is my responsibility to address the problems rather than be silent.

However, Bioware has now stepped forward and communicated, and I appreciate that fact. It seems that instead of wasting energy blasting them for their past behavior, that energy would be better spent in trying to find a way to help them communicate better in the future. Yes, I know that there are multiple threads on this forum documenting bugs, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm suggesting that possibly forumites could enter into a discussion with Bioware, provided they are willing, to give constructive feedback about the kind of communications that would be beneficial, always noting that some communication is limited by the non-disclosure status of the companies involved. Instead of bashing Bioware, or each other, maybe we could make a list of communications suggestions (or even a definition of what would be considered acceptable communication) that might make the relationship between Bioware and its fans productive, rather than destructive.

As a parent and a teacher, I know that harping on past transgressions rarely encourages the recipient to change his ways, other than to tune out the one doing the harping. Therefore, I am simply advocating a more constructive dialog, if that's possible.