674 réponses à ce sujet

[TM13h]

Mr. Woo, your's and the responses of other BioWare employees to this topic and related ones show me that one fundamental thing seems to be missing over at BW: Dedication.

Let me tell you of a competitor of your's. CD Projekt Red released The Witcher with some major bugs back in 2007. It took them a couple of weeks after that to iron out the most annoying bugs people had. In version 1.2 the game was playable just fine. CDPR continued pumping out a few more patches to solve minor issues, and then, eleven months after the initial release, they showed what I am missing at BioWare: Dedication to the product, pride of the game they created, and thankfulness towards the faithful community. They gave the community the Enhanced Edition. The EE is not only patched to date, it included extras like new animations, new NPCs, rewritten and rerecorded dialogue and lots of other improvements. They added two new campaigns, too, and overhauled the inventory system. And if that wasn't enough, you could grab the EE at a reduced price while many sellers still had the original retail version at full price on their shelves. And they did this all without the prospect of milking their fans a second time because as the owner of the original version you could just download all the improvements from the EE at no cost.

There are other examples like Two Worlds 1.5 where a company tries to really improve the initial game. Several gold editions of other RPGs come to mind, too.

BioWare started similarly with DAO, two patches plus hotfixes in quite a short time but after that there was... silence. Sure, you gave us 1.03, but you know the results. This was more a compatibility patch for Awakening and nothing else. Up to now I still haven't completed Awakening due to all the broken quests I have encountered so far. The editor doesn't work for me as for several other people and hasn't seen an update for months. This here social site is in early beta stage considering all the various problems people are having, me included (my profile split in two, with the default profile being screwed so nobody will (ever) be able to view my profile/characters/albums). There are battles on several fronts from your perspective, and the only thing we get from you is DLC which comes with its own bugs and several months after the last patch the message that another patch is underway, fixing at least three bugs, with more hopefully to be fixed some time in the future.

One has to assume that while other developers are proud of their games and care for them and their fanbase, the goal here seems to be rake in as much money as possible and then go on to other projects. Otherwise I cannot explain how, after the really long silence, you and others react to complaints concerning BioWare's PR, the contents of the mini-patch that 1.04 currently is, that they are angry at you in general. Yes, you might not make a single dollar patching the game in the years to come. Other developers face the same problem. Tell me then, why do they react differently? Maybe they are under the impression that a quick cash-in is nothing compared to a long-term investment, like building a fanbase.

I for myself know that I will buy The Witcher 2 at day one, I might even preorder it. And if it turns out to be bugged as hell, I am absolutely sure that CDPR will make an amazing job at improving the game. What if it turns out to be bug-free? I am looking forward to their still improving the game and adding stuff, like campaigns for free that BioWare is selling as DLC.

Modifié par TM13h, 10 juin 2010 - 05:09 .

[Zy-El]

TM13h wrote...

Mr. Woo, your's and the responses of other BioWare employees to this topic and related ones show me that one fundamental thing seems to be missing over at BW: Dedication.

Let me tell you of a competitor of your's. CD Projekt Red released The Witcher with some major bugs back in 2007. It took them a couple of weeks after that to iron out the most annoying bugs people had. In version 1.2 the game was playable just fine. CDPR continued pumping out a few more patches to solve minor issues, and then, eleven months after the initial release, they showed what I am missing at BioWare: Dedication to the product, pride of the game they created, and thankfulness towards the faithful community. They gave the community the Enhanced Edition. The EE is not only patched to date, it included extras like new animations, new NPCs, rewritten and rerecorded dialogue and lots of other improvements. They added two new campaigns, too, and overhauled the inventory system. And if that wasn't enough, you could grab the EE at a reduced price while many sellers still had the original retail version at full price on their shelves. And they did this all without the prospect of milking their fans a second time because as the owner of the original version you could just download all the improvements from the EE at no cost.

Is The Witcher available on XBox, PS3 or GameCube???  PC-only projects are much easier to fix and distribute than console games.  I believe you are being disrespectful when you accuse Bioware devs of lacking in dedication.  If that were so, there'd be no patches.  Anybody working out of their garage could produce a PC game and distribute it over the Web; I've done so.  Not so easy for console games.

Bioware has to wend its way through Micro$oft, $ony and Nonetendo bureacracy before being allowed to submit a single line of code lest it corrupt those respective platforms.

I can understand your frustration and anger with the trickle of fixes that are coming out.  I can sympathize, but accusing the devs who've put so much work into this product is counter-productive.  Mr Woo is not a developer.  He's a mouth-piece and not so diplomatic at that.  After playing the game upteen times through, you can see the amount of care and consideration that has gone into the game - the intricate nuances and details in the dialogue streams and the humour in some of the situations presented.  A lot of work went into this project; don't belittle the efforts of those who worked hard on this project because of the mis-spoken comments of one person. 

Modifié par Zy-El, 10 juin 2010 - 05:40 .

[Squeelookle]

↑This.

Two more things before I head out.



1: Will people PLEASE stop quoting things that damn near take up the whole page?!

2: Instead of saying everything is broken, maybe more information like which quests, which areas, what you did up to that point and so on would help. It would certainly aid them in giving us the kind of patch people are whining about not getting. Help them help us better, people.



I've already said that one thing annoys me and one thing CtDs in overdrive. Half an hour in Orzammar results in a CtD. Don't really like Orzammar, the chain there is mind-numbingly long, and the Deep Roads annoy me, but it has to be done.

[Jallard]

This is probably not pertinent for this thread, but I will speak of it here any way. Bioware must be doing something because I do most often play for hours on end without any crashes or quest glitches, on my PC--that I am aware of--in both Origins and in Awakening.



However, recently while I was playing and I had been playing for several hours the game suddenly crashed. It locked up on me. I had to do a complete shut down to get out of it being stuck. Cntl>ALT>Delete wasn't even responding.Once my system reloaded I started the game again.



When I clicked on "RESUME" the window announcing the DLC's popped up. I clicked on "RESUME" again and again the window announcing the DLC's popped up. I could not restart my saved game because of this. So, I backed all of the way out and restarted the game. Then instead of clicking on "RESUME" I clicked on "LOAD GAME" and it got into my saved game that way. This happened three times in a row.



Could this have been a bad connection to the the DAO site or could this have been something to do with Comcast? I am not sure. I just thought I pass that along. Thank you.



Jallard

[Stanley Woo]

BrunoB1971 wrote...
The problem is that you talk on behalf of Bioware which is a company or corporation and you speak like a corporate person.

I am a corporate person, since no one is willing to treat me like just another dude when I'm not saying things they want to hear. The internet is very "if you're not with us, you're against us," and since I disagree with you, or you with me, it means I'm the big bad corporation out to victimize the little guy. it's not a terribly great argument, but I've been around long enough that I recognize it. I've also set myself up to be a target in this discussion and I accept that too.

You are trying to explain the process of what is going on at your company

Actually, the last couple of posts I've made, i've been responding only to the question of how can a hobbyist do something faster/better than a company can.

At some points, meetings have to stop and someone has to move and do something other than talk about how things should go about or be resolved.

I agree, but how and why does the community determine that point? Especially when we're already moving?

People here don't want to know how a company works...most of us go thru this every day anyways and we know this. What we want to know is when, how much and the reasons why it took so long to even come up with a plan.

those are conflicting desires, BrunoB. You don't want to know how a company works, but you want to know the reasons why a company can move so slowly. how's this for an answer? Because there's lots of stuff going on behind the scenes that you never see and will never know about. Done. Answer given, not repeating myself, moving on.

is that a more satisfactory response than trying to help people understand how game development works? Because I can keep pointing to that answer if it is. YOU might know this stuff, many other people might already know this stuff, but based on some of the responses I've seen in this thread, there are a heck of a lot of people who DON'T know how companies or game developers work.

You should think more of putting yourself in aneutral position where you defend the opinions of the gamers while representing your company as they want you to do.

Can't. the community and the internet has made it "us vs. them." Based on what I know and my position here, I can't participate in this discussion and start arguing completely in favour of the community. I have allowed the community to express themselves, even sometimes in a hostile, insulting manner, and have acknowledged, even encouraged, the community's power as consumers and gamers. And I'm not a coddler, I'm not going to bow and scrape to a hostile community faction to satisfy their every demand. i will continue to speak frankly and sincerely as much as I am able. With "free" speech, you have to be able to take the bad along with the good. And I'm pretty good at taking the bad.

[Branji]

Squeelookle: Fans have been posting about the bugs, where they occur, when they occur, etc. for seven months. Bioware has everything they need to patch the game. They have had the info for many months.

[BrunoB1971]

Then Stanley, people will lose respect for your company. I am sorry but you have just proven again to me and probably some other people that Bioware is not ready to admit a Mea Culpa and be done with.



I will not support Bioware again even though i like the vision of what they have offered. Too bad that a great canadian company has come to this...what a waste...

[PanosSmirnakos]

Well try harder Mr. Woo because with the upcoming releases of the Witcher 2 and Diablo 3 you're going to lose many good customers (including myself) and your good name in the market if you 'll keep up with this terrible customer support / treatment, money grabbing DLCs and buggy, rushed and unpolished expansions. The PC gamers, at least.

[Goldrock]

This isnt a dang persistant mmo for christs sake either enjoy the game or dont buy them sheesh nobody forces people too buy dlcs

[Dubidox]

So many people seem to believe that somehow the DLC development slowed up patch development, which I doubt is the case. More like if they didn't do DLCs they probably would've just taken those resources and but them on DA2 or another game. It's likely that they had a pre-set budget for maintenance and support and that was that.



Anyways, glad to hear that a patch is in the works. Hopefully you guys can smooth out more wrinkles in Awakening. That would go a long way towards making me consider buying it. Price drops are good too

[Stanley Woo]

BrunoB1971 wrote...
Then Stanley, people will lose respect for your company. I am sorry but you have just proven again to me and probably some other people that Bioware is not ready to admit a Mea Culpa and be done with.

Interperonsal interaction shouldn't be a quest, BrunoB. You seem to want me to complete a certain quest (ie. say something specific at a specific time), but you've given me no journal entry, no Codex entry, and nothing in the manual to go by. Also, it seems to be a minigame whose rules I'm not familair with.

"BioWare is not ready to admit a Mea Culpa and be done with?" isn't this entire thread intended to make up for the lack of communication in the past?

[Goldrock]

i honestly havnt even hit a bug ive played through the game dlcs and the xpac like more than 3 times already lol i almost just think its peoples rigs.

[saria3]

Branji wrote...

To: Feraele
You said: "If their particular needs arent met"
Our "particular needs" aren't having 100 dungeons added; or 10000 new items added; we simply want (imagine this) a properly working game. Is that so hard to understand? It's like when Stanley Woo said the fans were acting out of "entitlement". The fans are entitled to a properly working game.

a propperly working game? who woulda thought
TOTALLY AGREE

[Aesthioseae]

This large thread conversation is like a mine-field and no one has found a safe way through it yet. It's like.. hostility versus tongue-in-cheek hostility versus relief versus logical input versus sentimentalists who are all for that logical input, but end up turning it into hositlity, only to be countered by tongue-in-cheek hostility...

[joey_mork84]

Goldrock wrote...

i honestly havnt even hit a bug ive played through the game dlcs and the xpac like more than 3 times already lol i almost just think its peoples rigs.

And here I was thinking I was the only one with a bug-free game.. Hooray for us!

*High-fives Goldrock*

[Nobody Important]

Not to be a jerk or anything but will Victor update his first post anytime soon? I want to see more stuff that is being patched.

[FieryDove]

Zy-El wrote...

Is The Witcher available on XBox, PS3 or GameCube???  PC-only projects are much easier to fix and distribute than console games. 

That's it! Make DA2 and all future titles PC only. Problem solved. With added benefits, better/real inventories, unlimited saves and no mandatory mini-games. (Thoughts straying to me2 here) 

On a more serious note, I don't understand all the Woo bashing going on. He has always been honest and open with us. A bit snarky at times but I consider that a good thing rather than a constant Yes sir attitude, imho.

Am I a Bio fan? Yes...Does it really matter in the large scheme of things? No.

I want a patch more than anything for awakenings. Mainly stop making me nekkid on arrival and in a certain place without a way around it...gah (I still think CP did this on purpose)

[Dylath Leen]

Please let there be a fix for the constant random CTDs that seem to plague the game for a lot of people! Pleeeeease, so I can play for more than half hour or so before having to restart - and of course it always happens just before I remember to quick save!!!! ARRRRGH!

[Drewbahr]

To the people insisting that the various and widespread glitches are because of peoples' machines/rigs:

Grow up. Get a life. Acknowledge that Bioware released a massively glitched product and you've been lucky so far in not being on the receiving end of it. When all of your save files go corrupt because you saved too often, don't come crying back here.

To Stanley Woo -

Continuing to insult your consumers won't instill confidence in your product.

[joey_mork84]

Drewbahr wrote...

To the people insisting that the various and widespread glitches are because of peoples' machines/rigs:
Grow up. Get a life. Acknowledge that Bioware released a massively glitched product and you've been lucky so far in not being on the receiving end of it. When all of your save files go corrupt because you saved too often, don't come crying back here.

Don't worry. Won't see me "crying back here" because I don't have the issues others do. I save CONSTANTLY and haven't had a corrupt save file even once. I don't have the system/game crashes either, and my rig isn't 'top of the line'. That being said, to those who get pissy when someone announces they don't have a problem at all with the game: YOU need to grow up and get a life. Complaining because someone says they don't have the problems you do is lame and a waste of space in the thread. Get over yourself.

[Squeelookle]

Branji, yes I know people have been telling them for months, but now that they've announced work on 1.4, it seems that people would rather complain. My Orz CtDs may be caused by pushing my GFX card too hard or the apparant "Audio Problem" error. I'll fiddle around and see what happens. Basically, my game works flawlessly aside from this.

[BrunoB1971]

Stanley Woo wrote...

BrunoB1971 wrote...
Then Stanley, people will lose respect for your company. I am sorry but you have just proven again to me and probably some other people that Bioware is not ready to admit a Mea Culpa and be done with.

Interperonsal interaction shouldn't be a quest, BrunoB. You seem to want me to complete a certain quest (ie. say something specific at a specific time), but you've given me no journal entry, no Codex entry, and nothing in the manual to go by. Also, it seems to be a minigame whose rules I'm not familair with.

"BioWare is not ready to admit a Mea Culpa and be done with?" isn't this entire thread intended to make up for the lack of communication in the past?

Stanley,instead of snappy rethorics at what i am saying, how about a rhetoric about what bioware as in store as far as patching go... or is that too hard to do...

[Drewbahr]

joey_mork84 wrote...

[Don't worry. Won't see me "crying back here" because I don't have the issues others do. I save CONSTANTLY and haven't had a corrupt save file even once. I don't have the system/game crashes either, and my rig isn't 'top of the line'. That being said, to those who get pissy when someone announces they don't have a problem at all with the game: YOU need to grow up and get a life. Complaining because someone says they don't have the problems you do is lame and a waste of space in the thread. Get over yourself.

Just because you don't have the problems doesn't invalidate thousands of other consumers' complaints.  Get over yourself, yourself.

[joey_mork84]

Drewbahr wrote...

joey_mork84 wrote...

[Don't worry. Won't see me "crying back here" because I don't have the issues others do. I save CONSTANTLY and haven't had a corrupt save file even once. I don't have the system/game crashes either, and my rig isn't 'top of the line'. That being said, to those who get pissy when someone announces they don't have a problem at all with the game: YOU need to grow up and get a life. Complaining because someone says they don't have the problems you do is lame and a waste of space in the thread. Get over yourself.

Just because you don't have the problems doesn't invalidate thousands of other consumers' complaints.  Get over yourself, yourself.

And when did I say it invalidated the other complaints? All I'm saying is that complaining because someone has a game with no issues is no reason to post. So there's no reason for me to get over myself. You're welcome for the correction, though.

[Drewbahr]

Likewise, there's no reason for you to post about how wonderfully your game plays in a complaint and patch release thread.