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Tirigon wrote...
I don´want to offend you, but after the DAO patch 1.03 these many, many tests you have to do seem not very believable. Unless, maybe you tried what happens if you scratch the testing?
Stanley Woo wrote...
And even then, time might run out or
something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and
miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed,
ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.
Arttis wrote...
did you notice on x box 360 if you put the wedding clothes from the city elf origin on sten,it is not colored in?its all bright orange....
Stanley Woo wrote...
Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW.We have to schedule people, secure testing resources, go through tons of bug reports, triage them, test them, reproduce them reliably, prioritize them, fix them, test them some more, and then test them even more to see if anything else gets broken. And even then, time might run out or something unexpected can happen, or, heck, we might even be human and miss something. Big, small, doesn't matter--something can be missed, ignored, declined, or we might simply never see it.
Zy-El wrote...
We who are playing on the PC have the greater advantage that there are modders who can fix a lot of scripting bugs - like Qwinn's Fixpatch.
Bioware's approach to patching has been to fix bugs across all platforms simultaneously wherever possible. However, there are console-specific bugs that have meritted special mention and attention. The game-killing bugs take priority over bugs that cause inconveniences but do not hinder the players' progress. That's a logical approach to fixing bugs.
Yes, it has been noted by other PC players that we have "wait" for the same bugs fixed on consoles to be done as well.
Branji wrote...
(Snip) Go back to page 7 if you want to read what he wrote.
Modifié par Wicked 702, 07 juin 2010 - 11:20 .
wanderon wrote...
Elhanan wrote...
Personally, I find all the whining, griping, and complaining to be a tad annoying.
Has anyone here ever written a paper longer than 10 pages? Any typos, glitches, or logical flaws that required fixing? Now add another paper to it, make it flow smoothly with the first, and do it in a foreign language using the combined talents of a few authors being transcribed by a few scribes. And have it in on time? *shakes head in wonder*
Are there bugs? It seems so, even if my own game plays rather smoothly. Sure; it is missing the Ancient Elven Boots, and I wish crossbows worked correctly per other's reports. But when DAO added DAA, I am guessing that this created additional work so that future patches would fix both games; not make more problems in each.
It seems to bear repeating: one may have the right to an opinion (or at least an informed one), but one also has the right to remain silent. If more used the latter, it might be a brighter day for all....
QFT
All part and parcel of the "instant gratification generation" (IMNSHO) aided and abbetted by the MMORPG forum philosophy of he who yells the most and the loudest will prevail regardless of the merits (or lack there of) of what he is yelling about.
Some days coming to these forums feels like being locked in a Jr High School Gym after all the adults have passed out massive quantites of Mt Dew and candy and left telling everyone to behave and they'll be back in a few hours.
Modifié par joey_mork84, 07 juin 2010 - 10:47 .
Stanley Woo wrote...
Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW.Gaxhung wrote...
Bioware is great, and I mean so totally awesome at so many things, but from the looks of it, and despite whatever excuses you can make for them, they are still lousy at fixing bugs.
We're also terrible at performing work and releasing fixes as individuals. We have to go through procedures and things to be able to call it an official patch. We have to get approvals and certifications, and because it's official, it's gotta have our names on it so people can praise us or yell at us and stuff. this also applies to the information we can share with you.
We appreciate the patience of the community, and as Nathan Willis mentioned in another thread, we're trying to come up with a better way of doing things like this--something that involves the community more, something that gets regular communication updates to you guys, something to make it all easier and far less hostile. because hostile is bad. You know that Moderator and dev abuse is not permitted in our community? Please keep that in mind when participating in tech support forums. We understand frustration and anger, but regardless of whether you're a "fanboy" or a "troll," we like all y'all equally and can have much more open conversations (as open as we can be) when you're not hostile and swearing up a storm.That's the catch-22 that we run into here. We can't NOT tell you anything because then y'all yell at us for being uncommunicative. We can't keep telling you that "we're working on it" (usually the best we can say at any given time without making any promises) because then y'all yell at us for being non-communicative. We can't tell you the patch is definitely going to fix this, this, and this because if any of that falls through then y'all yell at us for breaking promises. We can't even suggest that the patch might fix this, this and this because many internet folk take "might" to mean "we promise, cross our hearts". Then tyall yell at us.Honestly? Not telling us about the patch might as well be better than showing us a list of 3 items. I mean, are there THAT many fixes that they cannot commit to?
Seriously, I've looked through a couple of threads discussing this patch and that's exactly what's going on. People yelled at BioWare because we didn't tell them anything. Then people yelled at Nathan willis because he told them what he could, that we were "working on it." Now, people are yelling at Victor for actually telling them things, but apparently not enough things or not the right things. People will yell at us for not telling them what they want to hear, precisely when they want to hear it. And then y'all yell at us when we try to avoid this kind of confrontation. It's kinda funny, really.
We're all gamers here at BioWare. Do you think we enjoy it when people are crashing or when some people can't play the game? Do you think we like trolling the tech support forums for bug reports? Do you think it's fast and easy to take a problem that some people are having but needing to ensure it's fixed enough to please everyone? Sure, you can lambast us all you like, but some folks take it to the "entitled" level, and we can't deal with people honestly and openly when they feel our schedules, our work, adn our releases should conform to their standards NOW NOW NOW.
So Branji (to name but one vocal conscientious objector), in the interests of keeping the lines of communication open, not to mention the interests of keeping your posting privileges, tone it down a few notches and quit badgering our devs. You'll find us way more willing to talk when we don't have to navigate artillery strikes to do it.
Thank you all for your patience and your pariticpation in these discussions.
EDIT: And I forgot to mention, let's please cut out all the fighting amongst ourselves. That isn't productive to our discussions here. Thank you.
Modifié par BrunoB1971, 07 juin 2010 - 11:03 .
joey_mork84 wrote...
It never fails...
No matter how many times its said, someone always seems to miss it.. Imagine that..
BrunoB1971 wrote...
I wouls suggest everyone including the Bioware staff to look at this thread:
http://shoguntotalwa...The-Update.html
Modifié par Merci357, 07 juin 2010 - 11:10 .
Victor Wachter wrote...
The following items are just a small set of fixes that will be included in the update. We know that these are some of the most discussed issues, so we wanted to make sure you knew that they would resolved.
Keep watching for additional details. We’re packing a lot in this update and have more to reveal!
What we've listed are not the full patch contents, but things we knew that you were most concerned with and wanted to let you know about.
PanosSmirnakos wrote...
Stanley Woo wrote...
Nah, we're awesome at fixing bugs. We do it all the time. We're just terrible at fixing each individual's MOST IMPORTANT BUGS THAT ARE SO EASY TO FIX all the time to their satisfaction according to their schedule NOW NOW NOW.
http://social.biowar...m/project/2563/
Wicked 702 wrote...
Joey, you really should have read this because Branji is 100% correct. He presented himself in a constructive and respectable manner. What you fail to realize is that after all these months of waiting, and it has been many, posting a list of just 3 issues when 50-100 should already have been fixed EASILY is quite unacceptable.
I may not be as rabid as others on these forums but I can assure you that I, and many others, are quite close. I'll give Bioware ONE last chance to update this list on a FREQUENT basis as each bug passes their QA (pathetic as it clearly is). But that's it. There is absolutely no logical reason for anyone to be defending them at this point except perhaps for blind obedience. Anyone with a thinking mind should be at the very least be annoyed with Bioware or at the most ranting and raving. You're their customer, not some cult member, try to remember that they serve YOU.
The next step determines all. I read what Victor said. He even replied to me directly indicating that they would update the list as things pass QA. So I'll wait. One last time. But still, this initial annoucement leaves much to be desired.
BrunoB1971 wrote...
Obviously someone is working for the wrong company.
I wouls suggest everyone including the Bioware staff to look at this thread:
http://shoguntotalwa...The-Update.html
Is it so hard for Bioware to do something like this?
BrunoB1971 wrote...
Obviously someone is working for the wrong company.
I wouls suggest everyone including the Bioware staff to look at this thread:
http://shoguntotalwa...The-Update.html
Is it so hard for Bioware to do something like this? really !!! c'mon...
I applaud the guys over at that company who put themselves up front to their fans and try to be as honest and truthfull to them as possible, which is not the case here.
This is the kind of thread that we would need here. Not a rabbit poking his head out of his rabbit hole once in a while and yelling to everyone
"well we got 3 carrots out so far"
People would accept more " maybe this or maybe that will be in the next patch" than hearing crickets chirp for x amount of months.
And it sounds like no matter what we do at this point, if it's not precisely what you want to hear when you want to hear it, we have utterly failed and are horrible monsters who eat babies and kick puppies. Sorry, that's not constructive at this point, so frustrated or not, we can't build a time machine to undo what we've done (or haven't done) in the past. Nor are these comments becoming mor true due to repetition or volume.Branji wrote...
Stanley Woo: your post is insulting. It sounds like you are making fun of people having problems. And it doesn't take 7 months to fix and approve 3 bugs.
I've already clarified those comments and discussed them in a different thread, so I won't get into them again here.Badgering? If Bioware had been properly communicative from the beginning, everything would be fine. And fans with buggy games are not acting out of a sense of "entitlement", although you said in another forum that fans weren't entitled to a game working to their satisfaction, and that the patch was a "favor". Fans are not "entitled" to have a properly working game? That's insulting
Yes, because sales figures at retail equal net revenue for the developer, right? that may be the way your income is generated, but in the reasonable world, expenses are also taken into account. But that's not a discussion we're going to get into.Bioware may have "missed things"? You wouldn't if you were actually reading the forums.
Costs to make patches? Considering the 3.2 million plus copies sold, Bioware made more than 180 million dollars. The cost is extremely low compared to that. Don't act like you barely broke even.
"Practically" ranting? Branji, you've been tarring and feathering us for pages already. Just because your posts happen to have no swearing doesn't make your arguments any more valid, or your inflammatory remarks more true or acceptable. i single you out because you're the loudest, most visible rantmonger right now. If I can get you to follow the forum rules better, hopefully the more moderate folk will fall in line. If you can't do even that, I'll have to take different measures.Singling me out for my posts when some have been putting many swear words in theirs and even practically ranting? Seems that my post on page 7 may be hitting Bioware/EA close to home.
Modifié par Stanley Woo, 07 juin 2010 - 11:35 .
Modifié par mxw10000, 07 juin 2010 - 11:37 .
joey_mork84 wrote...
There was no need to 'dumb it down' for me, of all people. If you go back and read the rest of the posts in this thread, it was repeated for Branji many many times and he/she still went off on the same rant as if they just passed over them entirely. But I guess that's too much to ask.
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