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#1
Baelin Firestorm

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This is my first post on these forums. While I've been known to be vocal on other game forums, lately I tend to keep my thoughts and opinions to myself.

* If you entered this thread thinking you were going to immediately defend a stance on a sensitive topic, then please read through this first post before jumping to conclusions.

I've been playing computer games since PC's first became available. Anyone remember the Timex Sinclair? TI-99 4A? TRS-80? The first games I played were from legends such as Infocom (i.e., Hitchhiker's Guide, Leather Goddesses of Phobos, etc.). I've watch PC games evolve from Wasteland to Fallout 3. From King's Quest 1 to Dragon Age: Origins, and so on. Okay, enough history.

Purpose for this post? Simply, thank you Bioware. Sincerely, thank you! At a time when many game producers are afraid to make games with deep content which may or may not contain material that others consider "adult" or "offensive", Bioware has the integrity to realize that good story telling requires broader boundaries.

It doesn't take much to set off the protestors. Blood, nudity, moral or ethical diversity, religious deviation, etc.. The primary battle cry from most protestors is "what about the children?" or "your influencing fragile minds with dangerous content". At this point, I have to wonder if the "fragile mind" is the person speaking or their alleged victim. Many still consider computer games to be a sandbox for children. As a result, games get watched more closely than other art forms such as books, movies, television, etc.. Many of you already know this, so pardon me if I'm rehashing already accepted truths.

Obviously, I'm for including adult content in PC games. That doesn't mean I think the industry should go all "wild west" with it. Having the ability to include nudity in a game doesn't mean it can't be abused. I suppose it depends on the way it is integrated. In a game such as Dragon Age: Origins, it would be normal to experience a love scene between consenting partners that includes nudity. However, walking into a castle where the ruling party has declared all women must be topless is well.. ..you get the idea. Still, there are areas where nudity could be put into the game that would make sense and be relevant, but also be fertile ground for the protestors to jump on.

For example:
Your hero walks into the lower wards of a city. A group of thugs is attacking a young woman. Her clothes are torn and slight nudity is involved. She's bleeding and clearly in "a bad way." In a game like Dragon Age: Origins, you can either: A: Come to her rescue and fend off the attackers, B: Turn a blind eye and move on, C: Cheer on her attackers, or D: (you fill in the blanks).
 
Many would opt for choice A. If you're playing the game with the direction that you're going to be a villain, then B, C, or D become considerations. The latter is where the game opens itself up for outside interests to start throwing stones.

I know that companies such as Bioware need to be careful how they tread with sensitive topics, but at least they're taking the steps. Anyone that has any intelligence knows that human beings have a very dark side. Actually, "dark side" is being overly kind. This is reality. For a hero to be truly righteous, he/she has to have something they are fighting against. If a hero is going to be viewed as standing on the side of good, there has to be bad present. The more evil that is present, the greater the hero will be if he/she overcomes it. The same is true for a villain. In order for an individual to be truly vile, they need to be involved with disturbing activities. The greater the spance between the two sides, the greater each side becomes. Basically, the deeper a story teller is willing to delve into the darker side of the human psyche, the richer the story will be. It is easy to take the good side as far as it can go, but it will be vapid unless it has a truly evil side to compare itself against.

Okay. Enough of the yadda, yadda for now. In closing, a very big thank you to Bioware having the strength to produce a game that doesn't insult my intelligence or try to approach me as if I was thirteen years old and/or standing at a moral precipice waiting for a bad moral compass to send me off the edge.

Modifié par Baelin Firestorm, 21 octobre 2009 - 10:14 .


#2
_____o_O___

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__O_o__

#3
Ynirthotep

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cool story, bro

#4
Jab0r

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I heartily approve of the OP.



You should start writing a blog or something.

#5
Darthnemesis2

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I like chocolate.

#6
LadyKarrakaz

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Hum, sure, there is no really evil and disturbing game because of the goody-two-shoe morale of some lobbies. I agree that games now have an adult public, and what we accept in movies, books or music, should also be accepted for adult rated games.

Just look at the "progress", if I can say so, made in the last 10 years concerning violence, sex and profanities. To me, DAO is certainly a proof that the gaming industry is on the verge of maturity.



Thanks to Bioware, and few other game developer, to have dared changing the gaming landscape.

#7
_____o_O___

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Plenty of Japanese games have dark themes......rapelay for example.....

#8
Irisenne

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I completely agree with you, Balein.



Purple Lady: I don't think the gaming industry is on the verge of maturity, though. It still has a long way to actually reach maturity.

As it is in DA:O, I expect the relationship scenes will be similar or the same as in Mass Effect which, frankly, isn't much.

On top of it all, most of the society (mostly very religious people and, sadly, Americans - or their media) needs to accept the fact that adult scenes are OK in games and that it's not going to corrupt children and what not. I mean, if it was all that bad, the child could just browse off to one of many pornographic websites and see ACTUAL people there.



Oh, and sex is bad and it corrupts while severing people's heads off their torso's is completely okay and socially acceptable.

#9
Rivie

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I've always, always voted for more options rather than less. I think it's wonderful when a game that has a setting can put in things that actually make sense in that setting. Having bubbly fairies in a bright, colorful fantasy setting fit just as much as the more adult content fit in a harsh, dark, gritty setting like this. I agree that it's a shame critics can't see that games truly can be art, if done right. They tell stories just as much as any book or movie. The only difference is that in a game, you can actually affect the flow of the story, or at least play a small role in the fulfillment of said story.

Yes, it's a shame how easily violence is accepted and how much any hint of sexuality is looked on in disgust.  I don't want a game completely based on sex, that's just not how I am, but if it fits in the context of the story, see no reason why it's a problem to have it there.

Modifié par Rivie, 20 octobre 2009 - 10:38 .


#10
GhoXen

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_____o_O___ wrote...

Plenty of Japanese games have dark themes......rapelay for example.....

I wouldn't exactly compare pornography to movies with adult content to measure the growth of the movie industry.

#11
Arttis

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Everything needs to be regulated....to ensure a bright future we must also alter everyones brains.....and when new children are born they are born with an altered brain.....then............Utopia.....

#12
Bebbe777

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Violence is okay, bring it on.

Nudity on the other hand which is natural is soooo bad, evil and sinfull. The best thing is if the babies are born with clothes. Same thing about sex, it is a necessary evil.

I mean, come on.

#13
Rivie

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Arttis wrote...

Everything needs to be regulated....to ensure a bright future we must also alter everyones brains.....and when new children are born they are born with an altered brain.....then............Utopia.....

Gattaca-babies, here we come! :o

Modifié par Rivie, 20 octobre 2009 - 10:40 .


#14
Irisenne

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Arttis wrote...

Everything needs to be regulated....to ensure a bright future we must also alter everyones brains.....and when new children are born they are born with an altered brain.....then............Utopia.....

They shall never get me! NEVER, I say! *puts a steel cap on her head*

#15
M_arc

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Nice read, I agree, but what is exactly your point? You like BioWare because of this? Could have saved yourself some time with that one tbh.

#16
Baelin Firestorm

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The following phrase is brought to you buy the letters I and Q and the number 1984:



"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."

#17
Nighteye2

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The OP is very well spoken. ^_^


#18
Stanley Woo

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Yes, but what is the actual topic for discussion, please?

#19
Baelin Firestorm

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Nutshell.. ..Adult content = Good



Deeper thought for discussion.. ..could Bioware go even further with the adult content without going overboard. My thoughts; yes. A game that takes place during a truly visceral period in human history is fertile ground for adult subject matter. But what constitutes relevancy without crossing over into "Whoa, you didn't have to go there!"

#20
Sshodan

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Adult content in games and what people think about it? Topic enough I think :)



I have to agree with OP, I play games for long enough to remember how much difference 16bit color made after 8bit :D And it's time that games that are actually for adults would be made. Majority of the games that have M rating right now are still teenager orientated, which defines the logic in my opinion. I'm not so sure that DA:O will be truly mature, the only game lately that made a claim on maturity was The Witcher (and no, not because of blood or sex cards, but because it was a game without the "right" side to take, both where wrong, and when the final big mess started it was not a zombie hord attacing the city). With DA:O it remains to be seen, but I have my hopes :)

#21
Jab0r

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I think this is an area where DLC (either user-created or official) can be put to good use.



If an area of a game goes slightly over the line and then the game is X-rated or whatever, then that's a whole lot of lost sales and all the other content of the game is essentially tarred with the same brush.



If an optional content update strays over the line, then only that update needs to be rated as such, and the "core" game itself is unaffected. Comparatively little risk.

#22
SchaerMann30

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Well-spoken, well-read (at least, I'm making that presumption; not many have the knowledge or the chutzpah to quote Steinbeck that easily...), seems to be intelligent... if the OP has further opinions, I'd be pleased to hear them. His thoughts seem to fit my own well.



Too many have been griping and moaning over what is, frankly, piddling details, when we're all waiting for a game that promises to keep our RPG fix sated until sometime in the year 2018, especially given the obvious intent, repeated and firmly established, that they'll keep making games in this gorgeous IP they've developed for our enjoyment.



A little patience, properly applied, goes a long way toward lubricating the wheels that run the social infrastructure. Add respect and gratitude to the mix, and society would improve dramatically for all, provided we were all willing to give people decency and respect, and treat the man or woman next to you with even the slightest kindness.



To Baelin: Thank you for saying what has been foremost in my thoughts for some time. These people have devoted themselves since opening their doors to bringing us wonderfully developed, detailed and cutting edge worlds with attention to detail and unwavering determination to give us the best they can produce, and people have the nerve to complain and carry on because they're going the extra mile to give us the very best they have to offer, and over what? A slight delay in a flash game and a couple of setbacks which any developer might have run into, and to my certain knowledge, has happened to come across?



Can anyone explain the sense in this to me?



In closing, I'd like to add my own thanks and congratulations for a job well done, not once, but many times over, and for consistent and persistent enjoyment on all of the titles I have played by Bioware over the past decade plus. Keep up the good work.

#23
Arttis

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Everyones minds are fragile and they control what we do...we will do what it takes to stop the attacks to our brains...but how long can we last...:sick:

Modifié par Arttis, 20 octobre 2009 - 11:42 .


#24
M_arc

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Thank you for clarifying the discussion point, it was a bit unclear.

Well in this game they can actually decide for themself how much they put in, this game doesn't takes place in human history. It's fiction, there are elfs and much more...
I however do like adult content in games, it really contributes the the realism of those games.

Modifié par M_arc, 20 octobre 2009 - 11:25 .


#25
Dennis Carpenter

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Well this is interesting with some of the posts about morality sexuality violence etc and its influence based on religion or background and such.............I for one am psychologically diagnosed as Amoral and Anti-social the perfect background for a serial killer.........Part of the reason for my disability yet I have raised a family and stayed married to one woman for over 30years...kind of a paradox there. but to look at the example of the girl in the alley under attack when you revert it to real life the only options for most people ARE A and B not so much because of your moral background or upbringing it would seem to fall more under whether you might get you arse kicked or even killed so you best be sure you can handle the can of worms you are about to open up. I believe most of us would leave and call the police. But in the game we are given a variety of choices that tap into our dark side and i think thats what scares people because they don't want to admit they have one. Personally I would move into the alley try to break it up preferably with a big piece of pipe if one was handy or something else ...but than that's part of my amoral makeup I don't rationally recognize the danger of the situation all the time. I know I have a darkside I have learned over the years to control it. Now that the shrinks have me on meds its not so much of a problem now so I can go out more which helps with my anti-social nature. The game is just a GAME and those who usually protest it are the ones most afraid of their own natural feelings.



Just a thought ...Nice post BTW