161 réponses à ce sujet

[Baelin Firestorm]

In response to Dennis,

Without going into detail, we share a lot in common. I remember a quote from Mass Effect which basically goes, "Genius and madness are two sides of the same coin." In truth, I believe genius "is" the coin. Madness is one side of it. Apathy is the other. Genius is the ability to truly see the world. That includes recognizing both the dark and light aspects of it. Madness is letting the world get to you to the extent that it creates confusion over trying to rationalize both sides of the good/bad equation and finding yourself unsure of which side you're on. Apathy is the coping mechanism of truly seeing the world, but not delving too deep into it by dismissing the effort of making sense of it as a pointless exercise; which in turn shields you from personal introspection.

That said... ...welcome to my world.

[Nekator]

Very good point of the OP here, sadly our society is very much about silencing and concealing everything considered bad. They only forget, what you exactly wrote. Humans aren´t only good, far from it.

[Arttis]

What is good....good for only oneself is selfish thus bad in the eyes of some but good for you....all depends on your views...i see this world as mostly bad....oh cruel world....

[Casuist]

OP has clearly never visited my entirely real, nudity-mandatory castle.



Agree Bioware has done well on this subject with DA:O and other titles. It will be interesting to see how mainstream games evolve as society becomes more accepting, but a major role in this evolution is played by the increasing need to market to a mature demographic in a way that was not as profitable a decade or so ago.



I imagine the trend will continue to more frank inclusion of realistic interpersonal settings.

[M_arc]

Good and bad are relative imo. I only see science a an absolute truth.
Everything else is just a game with rules made up by people.
Real life and games are creepy similiar sometimes =/
What's good and what's bad depent on the rules, or the most common interpretation of it.
Created by culture, rituals, belief, eduacation ect.
But that's just my humble opinion off course, please feel free to disagree with me

Modifié par M_arc, 21 octobre 2009 - 12:24 .

[Dennis Carpenter]

Baelin Firestorm wrote...

In response to Dennis,

Without going into detail, we share a lot in common. I remember a quote from Mass Effect which basically goes, "Genius and madness are two sides of the same coin." In truth, I believe genius "is" the coin. Madness is one side of it. Apathy is the other. Genius is the ability to truly see the world. That includes recognizing both the dark and light aspects of it. Madness is letting the world get to you to the extent that it creates confusion over trying to rationalize both sides of the good/bad equation and finding yourself unsure of which side you're on. Apathy is the coping mechanism of truly seeing the world, but not delving too deep into it by dismissing the effort of making sense of it as a pointless exercise; which in turn shields you from personal introspection.

That said... ...welcome to my world.

Thank you

Modifié par Dennis Carpenter, 21 octobre 2009 - 12:31 .

[Bebbe777]

 What is good and bad are relative. For instance. When they dug up Pompei and saw all the nude pictures and brothel they were shocked. How could this be. It was the time when the church had much power so the result was that they tried to erase the 2000 year old pictures because in their view it was so wrong. But for the romans it was a natural thing, they weren't prude in the same sense. Sex was a natural part of life and so was nudity. 
Today, if we had discovered Pompei we would never have erased the pictures, instead we would study it. We are getting more open minded, slowly but somewhat steady. But we are also getting more decadent. 
And one more thing. Morality is always in the hand of the rulers. What they think moral is, is what moral will be. 

Modifié par Bebbe777, 21 octobre 2009 - 12:36 .

[Shattered Shield]

now i agree DAO is going to raise the bar on how mature games are but remember they have no control over the Rating system....that was put in place due to state and federal laws. its the same with the labels on music cds. There is too much of a vast majority who believes that we need to stick our fingers in our ears and sing lovey dovey songs about hugging...granted i also believe that its not the company's job to police what underage kids can and cant do...thats the parent's job........i plan on runnin around splashed with gore alot in dragonage

[Whist Darkblade]

well lets but it this way. If your not 18 your not able to to buy the game. Obviously this is not a game for kids, because they are much more susceptible to the violence. DONT GET ON HERE AND SAY THEY ARENT!!!!!!!!!



I dont want to get into a whole philosophical discussion where i prove you all wrong.....but I agree that since this is an "adult" aimed game, then Bioware has done an excellent job of making this game.

Arttis wrote...



Everyones minds are fragile and they control what we do...we will do what it takes to stop the attacks to our brains...but how long can we last...

Not quite sure if you are serious here. But this applies for those of us you arent mature. Ive seen and partaken in things in the past that were wrong, and violent. Im sure if there are any soldiers or Vets on here then they might feel the same way.



All i have to say to this, is how can something that is not real affect you, if you can disconnect from the visual aspect of the game or movie, and actually realise the repercussion of your actions?

For example all the little stupid ass kids who play really violent video games (Halo, GTA, Unreal Tournament.....etc) they cant do this, so then they go shoot up the school killing people that were mean to them, not thinking about how vile of an action they just commited (COLUMBINE ANYONE????)

[Kevin Lynch]

Careful about where this thread goes. Keep it DA:O related and not diverge too much into philosophical debates about the effect of video games on players of any age. Thanks.

[GhoXen]

I hate it when people put "think about the children" into a controversial discussion concerning what should and shouldn't be in a game rated and made for adults. It's the parents' responsibility to stop their kids from playing these said games, not the game developer's. "Let's ban these contents because some kids' parents can't be bothered with disciplining!" sounds perfectly fair.

[Arttis]

DA O

Will be barley influencing on anyone but the very inexperienced...

[Whist Darkblade]

 Now, brings rise to the dicussion about the girl?

To any normal human being, and to basically to anyone who lays claim to being  part of the human race. Only answer "A" should be the only one that crosses your mind. Of course this is in real life, i could care less what you do in the game. Dont worry about "opening a can of worms you cant handle" think of the girl as your mother, sister, girlfriend, or daughter. What would you do? Honestly? you wouldn't be a little coward and run to the police. you would try and take matters into your own hands. Now, i know that you cant win them all, so as a male, i do my best to make sure that i can stand my own.

Perhaps it is because i respect women, and realize that if not for them there would be none of "us". But ive diverged from what my point was

Since this is an adult oriented rpg, then im glad bioware made what they did. My personal favorite is the physics behind the blood splatter effect, and look forward to using the toolset with that.


And obviously since people have differing opinions feel free to give me a shout, or drop a post

[Whist Darkblade]

GhoXen wrote...

I hate it when people put "think about the children" into a controversial discussion concerning what should and shouldn't be in a game rated and made for adults. It's the parents' responsibility to stop their kids from playing these said games, not the game developer's. "Let's ban these contents because some kids' parents can't be bothered with disciplining!" sounds perfectly fair.

if you are referring to anything i said, it is my mistake, because what you said specifically concerning

It's the parents' responsibility to stop their kids from playing these said games, not the game developer's.

If the parents aren't diligent to patrol what thier kids are up to, then they should be held responsible

[grregg]

Baelin Firestorm wrote...

(...)

For example:
Your hero walks into the lower wards of a city. A group of thugs is attacking a young woman. Her clothes are torn and slight nudity is involved. She's bleeding and clearly in "a bad way." In a game like Dragon Age: Origins, you can either: A: Come to her rescue and fend off the attackers, B: Turn a blind eye and move on, C: Cheer on her attackers, or D: (you fill in the blanks).
 
Many would opt for choice A. If you're playing the game with the direction that you're going to be a villain, then B, C, or D become considerations. The latter is where the game opens itself up for outside interests to start throwing stones.

(...)

To be honest I would hesitate to call this scenario mature. What exactly is mature about it? Violence? Allowing the player to be evil? Being 17% more evil than some other game?

To me, the scenario smacks of "BWAHAHA!" kind of evil generally associated with cartoonish villains.

[Dennis Carpenter]

Whist Darkblade wrote...

 Now, brings rise to the dicussion about the girl?

To any normal human being, and to basically to anyone who lays claim to being  part of the human race. Only answer "A" should be the only one that crosses your mind. Of course this is in real life, i could care less what you do in the game. Dont worry about "opening a can of worms you cant handle" think of the girl as your mother, sister, girlfriend, or daughter. What would you do? Honestly? you wouldn't be a little coward and run to the police. you would try and take matters into your own hands.

I understand your personal viewpoint but society isnt made up that way or the central park jogger would not have had to endure her fate while half the park did nothing. Not everyone is as brave as you nor as stupid as i to go into something that may very well be beyond them

[Enderion De'Veryn]

I agree with Baelin as well, its about time someone opened the envelope of mature gaming. It was bound to happen, what with all the 30+ year olds playing video games these days. As we get older we want more adult based games.

I played Witcher as well, which was another game which showed the dark side of human nature and decisions, and I loved it. That's not to say I'm going to go out and make the same decisions the same day if I had to make them.  Mature games should be just that, for the Mature only. Its obvious these games aren't made to appease the majority or children.  Thank the Gods there are gaming developers out there that know what we want to play, as mature gamers.

Bioware is just the company I wanted to bring dark fantasy and mature roleplaying, sex and nudity, and blood and gore all rolled up into a nifty tin box for my enjoyment.  

-End

[Arttis]

I like the blood but why a cloud of blood like every strike...

[Talin Cousland]

Thank-you for the thought provoking thread.

I was really impressed how in the "Stolen Throne" how Maric made his decision on whom to marry.  I hope David and his writing team will have numerous more mature type decsions for us to make. 

Now, this is a Mature game like so many others.  But most of those others mature features are typically just bells and whistles.  The player learns very little from the experience.  Well, aside from cheap thrills.

If I might add to to the term Mature theme.  Generations ago, our society was heavily influenced by the church.  In my generation, it was schooling television (Ward Cleaver, Steve Douglas or Mike Brady and family)as well as some church.   At this time, television and movies had a very large impact on pop culture.   I remember a couple of weeks back Jay Leno mentioned that broadcast televison is on the decline.  Less people are watching.  With the video gaming industry still rapidly growing worldwide, don't you think that video game companies should take some responisbility in where our culture is going?

A few weeks ago a co-worker was playing Call of Duty 4 online.  Then one of his squadmates stared crying.  He was shocked to find it was some really young kid.  It is rated M.  I think you get the jest of what these links are about.
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

There needs to be games to help adults question their values to help in their real life decision making.  Like televisions and movies are mostly entertaining, but the good ones have messages. I learned something from the movie "UP"  I certainly hope DA:O is on that track.

I would hope Ray and Greg do see this and embrace this challenge.

Modifié par Talin Cousland, 21 octobre 2009 - 01:30 .

[Shattered Shield]

well because its easier to rend cloud like than what really happens when u smack someone with a bladed weapon

[Sornin]

Games being able to feature adult-themed content is really a dual-edged sword; when integrated in a coherent story with excellent gameplay, it is awesome, but when used as a crutch it is terrible.

I enjoy realism in my games, and to be realistic one must explore the dark side of human behaviour, as well as sex, violence, greed, etc. However, games should not exist solely to exploit these themes for shock value.

Dragon Age: Origins seems to have done it well, from what I have read, but many developers who attempt the same thing will not do it right. Already there are a lot of video games that have ludicrous amounts of profanity in the dialogue to appeal to gamers who think that is mature, when really it is about as mature as a few school children giggling at naughty words.

[Euphrati]

As soon as the ESRB is taken seriously by parents who are concerned about their children Mature games can start being seen as acceptable.

[Robert Emerald]

I agree with most here. I also believe that what we need is an A (adult) or AO (adults only) rating. It's not that hard at all. Some of us enjoy story content, character choices, diologue, our varied philosophical views and the good, evil and everything in between that leads to an amazing and unforgetable CRPG experience. Certain aspects of realism in a gaming world is a must for some of us.

[Arttis]

I never understood why parents would blame games for the bad things kids do....they will do them anyway....and the kids dont have money unless you trust them enough to buy something for themselves so you give them some or you only buy them stuff...I doubt many kids will like DA O. I cant imagine many kids liking games that are very classical or close to the old stuff.

[Bebbe777]

or games where you have to read alot and make decisions after decisions after decisions. Most of them want plain FPS or Adventure games.