161 réponses à ce sujet

[Deviija]

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

Modifié par Deviija, 21 octobre 2009 - 08:22 .

[Arttis]

I think there are more women reporting being raped then men.

Not that is doesnt happen to men women/men raping them.

Its just that im sure a man keeps that to himself.With the exception to some.

Thats just how i see things i guess.

[caspertjuhh]

well said.



or written.. ah whatever

[Malkavianqueen]

Deviija wrote...

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

I completely agree!

[Arttis]

dont worry in the game im sure theres just as many men being raped and selling their bodies as well as women...those bioware guys like to keep it even

[GhoXen]

The male Shephard showed as much skin as Liara/Ashley. To be honest though, as controversial as the nudity in Mass Effect may be, that was less than what a lot of mature-rated movies would show.

Modifié par GhoXen, 21 octobre 2009 - 08:42 .

[Nephilia]

I agree with most people here. Let's look at how TV has matured over the past few years with shows such as Battlestar Galactica (dealing with sensitive topics such as genocide and terrorism), Rome (full frontal nudity, sex and violence), and other similar shows.



These TV shows manage to both portray these adult subjects in a realisty, non-glorified way, but at the same time don't sugarcoat these sensitive topics. I for one, support this development in TV.



The same should apply for computer games. Bioware seems to be going in that direction too, where others still dare not tread (Bethesda anyone?) and should be complemented for this.



Bioware and other companies just need to focus on who they are marketing the game for, and break out of the mentality that just because the "computer game" genre has the word "game" in it, it's only meant for kids, as so much of the media seems to think.



I just hope to see Bioware continue down this path further in the future.

[Agent Verona]

Deviija wrote...

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

I've actually talked about that with people before! The two conclusions that we came up with were basically:

1. Game makers are still in the frame of mind to think that their biggest customers are middle aged men who want to see boobies, and young girls who want to play “Design a Dress!” games.

2. While the female body is generally seen as visually appealing (breasts, butts, and...Um...The lower front), the male genitals aren’t as.....Attractive. Honestly! I took a poll once of a bunch of my 20 + year old college friends, and they all agreed that they’d rather look at a naked women for a long period of time rather then a male.

As for your other good point about women always being the one's victimized in games, I agree completely. And I'm about as far away from being a feminist as a woman can get! I'm hoping that DA: O will be a good game for the girls saving some guys every once in a while and getting praise from her party.

[Mordaedil]

Deviija wrote...

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

Try as I might, when I try to switch the roles around, the first and third are still something I could easily see and still be pretty happy with, but the second scenario, I... Just have some trouble with.

Death by snu-snu is just kinky and funny, it's not really traumatizing to the beholder. Do you really feel a swelling hatred for your own gender-types when you hear about a female teacher who drugged her students and had sex with them while they were unconscious?

Or do you facepalm like me when the newstory also mentions the victims comment that they just wish they were conscious during the whole thing?

I dislike gender stereotypes as well, but you have to play the scenario a bit differently when it comes to different genders.

It also isn't as easy to force intercourse, which would be fortuneate if it was true both ways.

In reality.

[Baelin Firestorm]

Feraele wrote...
...
Personally I have an abhorrence for blood and gore, I refuse to watch modern day horror movies, as they give me nightmares, which in turn end up being very graphic and frightening to me. Which seems odd when you consider that I am a gamer, but I do have reservations about killing for the sake of killing, I do have moral values and those hold true in a video game. I have played many a pvp game, and I am always the one that strikes second ..not first.

I can't just walk up to someone in a game and slay them for no reason whatever...just not in my nature.
...
Fera

I don't usually reply quickly after making a response, but I was reading other posts and hopped back to this one and saw your response...

Your take on violence is not as odd as you make think. Just because blood and gore exists doesn't mean we should gravitate towards it. It is one thing for a game to realistically depict the graphic outcome of a violent encounter. It is another to play that game simply to take in those moments as if that was the only reason for playing. Maybe that is the line everyone is trying to establish.

There are some people in real life that seek out disturbing imagery ("Faces of Death" ring a bell?). In most cases, this is shock value. These individuals want to be appalled. I think the term "morbid curiosity" sums it up well.

There are others that don't actively pursue this imagery, but will slow down at an accident scene to see if they can get a glimpse of the victim. Again, "morbid curiosity" but milder.

There are others don't possess any form of morbid curiosity. These individuals may come into contact with a disturbing visual but it has no impact on them one way or the other.

Then there are others that find this imagery disturbing and unsettling. They don't seek it out and may even take steps to avoid encountering it. It sounds like you fit into this group.

Regardless of which group applies to you, there is a reality to the topic. That's the purpose of this thread. I don't support the addition of blood and gore because the presence of these make the game more enjoyable.. ..provisionally. It's not the blood and gore, per se, that makes the game fun, it's the feeling that I am as immersed in an experience as is humanly possible. If that experience means facing the reality of my actions with graphical depictions of violent outcomes, then so be it. If blood and gore were removed, then we might as well be running around with tranquilizer darts and tazers. If that was the experience I was trying to absorb into, then fine, but the sword I'm wielding is more lethal.

In closing, I get the impression that you are (in real life) a person with righteous convictions. If that is true then "/bow" and "/salute." We need more individuals such as yourself; both in the real world and playing games such as DA:O.

[Sheadowstar]

Ah Baelin Firestorm-

always into the heart, and the warmth, of the matter, ae ol chap?

Nudity in games-

It is definitely good. I am of the extreme viewpoint that ALL nudity is good-my utopian world would be like Heaven..where all were naked..except we'd be aware of the nudity, and damn well enjoy it. In a scenario where, in a game, you are walking through the alleyway and some chick being assaulted, I'd take the option of killing the goons, and then doing the lady myself..now THAT is truly evil. I see the game as a fantasy, and as such, whatever goes. In reality I'd prolly call the pigs and try to stop further harm to the lady. But thats reality, and who says games have anyhting to do with reality?? A guy who can call magic from the heavens simply doesnt exist in this real life..so if one form of fantasy is allowed, lets not be prudish-

enjoy and enjoy. you live only the once, right?

[MadHatt3r]

Deviija wrote...

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

It's at the core of the male-female relationship.

"men are pigs".

yep i've been married for 10+ years

[Lucy Glitter]

There was this thread a little while ago, with a guy asking if his usb "torch" happytime was compatible with Dragon Age and gave us a link to his brand and model.



The thread disappeared about an hour later, ne'er to be seen again.



Just thought it appropriate to post here.

[Mordaedil]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

There was this thread a little while ago, with a guy asking if his usb "torch" happytime was compatible with Dragon Age and gave us a link to his brand and model.

The thread disappeared about an hour later, ne'er to be seen again.

Just thought it appropriate to post here.

Clearly Chris wanted to keep it all to himself.

[Arttis]

MadHatt3r wrote...

Deviija wrote...

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

It's at the core of the male-female relationship.

"men are pigs".

yep i've been married for 10+ years

i see a JEBesh in your avatar
As a man i find this insulting to our willpower

[Lucy Glitter]

Mordaedil wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

There was this thread a little while ago, with a guy asking if his usb "torch" happytime was compatible with Dragon Age and gave us a link to his brand and model.

The thread disappeared about an hour later, ne'er to be seen again.

Just thought it appropriate to post here.

Clearly Chris wanted to keep it all to himself.

That was probably the case. I replied to the thread going, "Uh... uh... well... uh... hrm." and then someone else made a comment that it was creepy, and them BAM!

I wonder what other treasures were lost to the Dragon sea on those forums.

[Arttis]

Like my dad says women train their men...

[Baelin Firestorm]

Deviija wrote...

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

Bravo. Mind you, while some of my references did point to females. I also drew references to violence in general (non gender specific), but I know what you're saying. The topic of censorship is not specifically limited to naked women.

One person briefly mentioned the possible lesbian relationship in Mass Effect. Can you imagine the reaction from the player base if a male/male encounter were possible. Gives a whole new meaning to the term "Mass Effect."

In truth, male nudity needs to be addressed along with females. However, there is a wider acceptance of topics such as female nudity and/or bi / lesbian relationships than there is for male nudity and homosexual encounters. It is an unfair tipping of the scales but it is the truth. Women tend to be more tolerant than men. They can rationalize and accept things to a greater degree. Most homophobes are male, if that's any indication.

Many males perceive women as the weaker sex. The concept of coming to a damsel's rescue is a big boost for a male's ego and may be part of the incentive for some males to play games like DA:O. In truth, males are the most confused (in real life) when it comes to what constitutes weakness, but their bravado won't allow them to admit this.

Most women can see the weakness in males. Many just give a slight grin and move on with just the comfort that they possess this awareness. Other women feel the need to expose the weakness. There is no right path. Men are slowly realizing the truth of the gender gap. Some are accepting that there isn't one. Others are still standing at an imaginary precipice with their eyes tightly closed.

Being that I'm an XY, and you're an XX, that's about as close as I can come to explaining it.

[Korva]

grregg wrote...

To be honest I would hesitate to call this scenario mature. What exactly is mature about it? Violence? Allowing the player to be evil? Being 17% more evil than some other game?

Amen. Neither sex nor violence mean "maturity". Mix them and you get something utterly atrocious, but certainly not "mature". And any game that let the (male) player do that would get the developer on my blacklist, permanently.

Mordaedil wrote...

I'm glad Bioware doesn't shy away from making mature games, but we're still getting pretty vague maturity in these games. Often they lack the thing that truly makes it mature, which is realistic consequences. All too often you'll see psychic guards, possess an inability to disobey order, or even be able to evade punishment all too easily.

Amen x2. This is exactly why the "evil" path -- or just the path of the oh-so-cool "rebel" who insults everyone from companions to authorities -- often does not work for me at all in a game (aside from the fact that I find it unappealing anyway). The story goes on, maybe you get a bigger or smaller reward, can't do one meaningless sidequest or another opens up, but in the end it doesn't matter. The "evil" option just gets chucked in to have a "choice", or for laughs, but doesn't have the consequences it should have. It's especially glaring in a game like KotOR.

Deviija wrote...

I like how everything is suddenly about the woman and female nudity specifically. Female prostitutes, females being raped, females being naked... If we're doing nudity and mature situations, then it can easily be applied to men just as easily as women. It bothers me when a topic that is broad an encompassing like mature situations, nudity, and the evolution of the gaming medium, seemingly ends up turning a narrow focus on simply women being naked and/or victimized in the hypotheticals. I'm all for mature and adult situations, but not if it is going to revolve solely around one gender over another.

Thanks for bringing this up more politely than I would have.

Exploitation and degradation of women are still damn prevalent beneath the veneer of gender equality in our societies, and many times if you point that out you're called names. "Maturity" for me would be confronting that and similar issues, forcing the player to think, not pandering to it.

And yes, by all means. If we must have graphic nudity and sexual violence, bring on the male victims. The heterosexual male victims, so there can be no "comfort zone" of thinking it only happens to the pansy f*gs who are no true men anyway, or who even "deserve" it.

(For the record, I don't mind either sex/nudity or violence if they're not exploitative or just for the sake of kicks. It's natural after all. But I do mind if they are exploitative and degrading of women and we are supposed to laud that as an example of a "mature" game.)

Modifié par Korva, 21 octobre 2009 - 09:20 .