76 réponses à ce sujet

[Chuvvy]

Anyone else think that's Gilmore and Mother Mallol from the Human Noble Orign? I hate Howe even more now he tortured them to death.

Modifié par Slidell505, 06 juin 2010 - 12:41 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Holy Crap indeed, I must have done that dungeon 5 times and never saw that!



Where exactly where you when you got that pic?

[Chuvvy]

It's just a pan over of the dungeon during the first cutscene in the "Captured!" quest.

[Herr Uhl]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Holy Crap indeed, I must have done that dungeon 5 times and never saw that!

Where exactly where you when you got that pic?

When infiltrating Howe's mansion. I remember seeing a topic like this one before.

Ah, here it is.

[Giggles_Manically]

Well when my 2H barbarian impaled him, but I can no longer feel remorse for that, ah well Howe is in hell and all is well.

[Avilia]

That's in Fort Drakan no? Another reason to kill both Howe and Loghain ;-)

[Addai]

I am supposing that they were tortured to get "confessions" about the Couslands' supposed treachery. Bastards.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I believe it's in Fort Drakon. Curious that Howe didn't keep them in his own dungeon. I guess that's because he didn't usurp the Arling of Denerim yet. But that's still not proof that it's them. At the speech sequence before the battle of Denerim, another guy looks almost exactly like Gilmore as well. So I am guessing this could just be recycled faces. Wouldn't be the first time.

[sylvanaerie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I believe it's in Fort Drakon. Curious that Howe didn't keep them in his own dungeon. I guess that's because he didn't usurp the Arling of Denerim yet. But that's still not proof that it's them. At the speech sequence before the battle of Denerim, another guy looks almost exactly like Gilmore as well. So I am guessing this could just be recycled faces. Wouldn't be the first time.

I wanted to think that too when I first saw it but thats too close a coincidence that both were there and both were from the HN Origin.  I believe it is them ...that bastard Howe...  When he says "I deserved more" i wanna tell Wynne, okay heal him up let's kick his ass some more.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I guess he's only redeeming feature is his genes that thankfully don't transmit his looks to his good looking children.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I guess he's only redeeming feature is his genes that thankfully don't transmit his looks to his good looking children.

How can you forget the voice?

[Addai]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I wanted to think that too when I first saw it but thats too close a coincidence that both were there and both were from the HN Origin.  I believe it is them ...that bastard Howe...  When he says "I deserved more" i wanna tell Wynne, okay heal him up let's kick his ass some more.

LOL  Good one.

[AmstradHero]

Yikes! Someone better tell DLAN_Immortality... the Rory she has created might be an impostor planted by Howe!

[Astranagant]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I believe it's in Fort Drakon. Curious that Howe didn't keep them in his own dungeon. I guess that's because he didn't usurp the Arling of Denerim yet. But that's still not proof that it's them. At the speech sequence before the battle of Denerim, another guy looks almost exactly like Gilmore as well. So I am guessing this could just be recycled faces. Wouldn't be the first time.

Because Loghain was complicit in all of Howe's actions.

But there's an older thread from a few months ago and it was confirmed through the toolset that it is indeed Gilmore and Mallol.

Also if you go to the lower floor in the room where the cage you start out in is, you'll see their bodies splayed out in a different position on top of a wooden rack in the center of the room, which was how I first spotted it.

Modifié par Astranagant, 06 juin 2010 - 03:30 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Astranagant wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I believe it's in Fort Drakon. Curious that Howe didn't keep them in his own dungeon. I guess that's because he didn't usurp the Arling of Denerim yet. But that's still not proof that it's them. At the speech sequence before the battle of Denerim, another guy looks almost exactly like Gilmore as well. So I am guessing this could just be recycled faces. Wouldn't be the first time.

Because Loghain was complicit in all of Howe's actions.

Yes, here we go again. Oh my goodness how many times do I have to repeat that David Gaider already said Loghain had nothing to do with the Cousland massacre?

You know what, I don't care anymore.

[sylvanaerie]

AmstradHero wrote...

Yikes! Someone better tell DLAN_Immortality... the Rory she has created might be an impostor planted by Howe!

LOL actually if you have GIlmore rescue you from the cell, he makes a cute comment about "that could have been him down therer on those racks".  Since I use a modded Gilmore in my game I can just ignore that body down there and keep Gilmore alive in my game (Or believe he died fighting in Highever).

[Astranagant]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I believe it's in Fort Drakon. Curious that Howe didn't keep them in his own dungeon. I guess that's because he didn't usurp the Arling of Denerim yet. But that's still not proof that it's them. At the speech sequence before the battle of Denerim, another guy looks almost exactly like Gilmore as well. So I am guessing this could just be recycled faces. Wouldn't be the first time.

Because Loghain was complicit in all of Howe's actions.

Yes, here we go again. Oh my goodness how many times do I have to repeat that David Gaider already said Loghain had nothing to do with the Cousland massacre?

You know what, I don't care anymore.

Until David Gaider goes back and rewrites the game to make that clear people are going to keep making that connection. I.E.: If Jowan says Loghain personally intervened and took him from the templars (and had him poison Eamon, with no mention in the game of it being non-lethal like he said on the forum,) and you find one of said templars in the dungeon of Howe's estate who tells his noble sister the same story, it's kind of hard not to connect the dots.

So, has he come up with any reasonable justification for why Howe would commit an act of treason he couldn't possibly get away with unless he knew something bad was going to happen to the king and his army?

Modifié par Astranagant, 06 juin 2010 - 03:56 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ducan already said what the "justification" was.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I believe it's in Fort Drakon. Curious that Howe didn't keep them in his own dungeon. I guess that's because he didn't usurp the Arling of Denerim yet. But that's still not proof that it's them. At the speech sequence before the battle of Denerim, another guy looks almost exactly like Gilmore as well. So I am guessing this could just be recycled faces. Wouldn't be the first time.

Because Loghain was complicit in all of Howe's actions.

Yes, here we go again. Oh my goodness how many times do I have to repeat that David Gaider already said Loghain had nothing to do with the Cousland massacre?

You know what, I don't care anymore.

He would have been complicit, however, in the treatment of prisoners in Fort Drakon.  He personally approached Jowan in prison in Denerim, and that is an NPC from an origin story, so the timeline is simiilar.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 juin 2010 - 04:07 .

[Daewan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I guess he's only redeeming feature is his genes that thankfully don't transmit his looks to his good looking children.

Am I the only one who thinks Nathaniel is most likely not really Arl Howe's son....  (based on notes from Mommy Howe, and Nathaniel's comments, and way he was packed off?)

[sylvanaerie]

Astranagant wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I believe it's in Fort Drakon. Curious that Howe didn't keep them in his own dungeon. I guess that's because he didn't usurp the Arling of Denerim yet. But that's still not proof that it's them. At the speech sequence before the battle of Denerim, another guy looks almost exactly like Gilmore as well. So I am guessing this could just be recycled faces. Wouldn't be the first time.

Because Loghain was complicit in all of Howe's actions.

Yes, here we go again. Oh my goodness how many times do I have to repeat that David Gaider already said Loghain had nothing to do with the Cousland massacre?

You know what, I don't care anymore.

Until David Gaider goes back and rewrites the game to make that clear people are going to keep making that connection. I.E.: If Jowan says Loghain personally intervened and took him from the templars (and had him poison Eamon, with no mention in the game of it being non-lethal like he said on the forum,) and you find one of said templars in the dungeon of Howe's estate who tells his noble sister the same story, it's kind of hard not to connect the dots.

So, has he come up with any reasonable justification for why Howe would commit an act of treason he couldn't possibly get away with unless he knew something bad was going to happen to the king and his army?

Loghain had nothing to do with Howe's actions in the slaughter.  Even if D Gaider hadn;'t said it I will still believe that.  His actions AFTER that declaring Howe Teryn to my HN's face and protecting Howe condemned him but I never believed he had anything to do with the deaths of the Couslands.  That was all conceived in Howe's sick little mind.
Of course if you choose to play in your games that he was complicit then by all means do so.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
He would have been complicit, however, in the treatment of prisoners in Fort Drakon.  He personally approached Jowan in prison in Denerim, and that is an NPC from an origin story, so the timeline is simiilar.

You can see it that way.
I see it as Loghain turning a blind eye to what Howe, an ally seen as necessary, is doing. That of course can make him an accomplice, according to perspective. In the context I see Loghain in, I do not view him as an accomplice in those particular acts.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
He would have been complicit, however, in the treatment of prisoners in Fort Drakon.  He personally approached Jowan in prison in Denerim, and that is an NPC from an origin story, so the timeline is simiilar.

You can see it that way.
I see it as Loghain turning a blind eye to what Howe, an ally seen as necessary, is doing. That of course can make him an accomplice, according to perspective. In the context I see Loghain in, I do not view him as an accomplice in those particular acts.

Hopefully you do see how much like wishful thinking and special pleading that appears.  The sort of justification a man sitting in a Nuremberg trial might make, because he never actually got his hands bloody.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Hopefully you do see how much like wishful thinking and special pleading that appears.  The sort of justification a man sitting in a Nuremberg trial might make, because he never actually got his hands bloody.

No, not really.

You have the Arl of Amaranthine (one of the richest arlings), that took over Highever with little effort, essentially controlling them both. And you have Loghain going into a civil war and who needs as much allies as possible. Howe, being in his position, would be a very powerful ally. Making an enemy out of him would have been stupid.

Thus, no I do not see this as wishful thinking nor special pleading. You  might think they are "excuses" like you usually do. I see them as political considerations and limitations. Making Howe an enemy would have been a very unwise move by Loghain. So is making him too close, and that's where I think Loghain didn't handle him well (then again, Howe was stealing titles all over the place and Loghain just had to agree to them after the fact. Howe knew how to cement his position).