965 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

phaonica wrote...

But isn't that only like a couple of months later? And they're shipping him to Orlais, and I'll never see him again, especially if his Calling comes

I was extremely pleased in Origins to find him to be happy to be alive, and not moping or complaining. He almost seemed excited and amused by his being relocated to Orlais.

To prove that I'm not totally talking out of my ass.

David Gaider wrote...

A Grey Warden can have a child... just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen... and the child is not tainted in any fashion.

Insofar as how long a Grey Warden could remain on the throne, it depends. The taint will make a Grey Warden age faster, so someone like Loghain isn't going to be able to stay a Grey Warden for very long as he's no young man. The "thirty years" quote is about the maximum, but the reality is that it depends on how often one is exposed to the corruption and sometimes just personal variance-- even so, for a monarch to stay on the throne upwards of thirty years is no mean feat. I don't really think that's the limiting factor when it comes to this sort of thing.

And considering that Duncan is about to get called at a younger age than Loghain, while being in about the same physical condition makes me think that it isn't that long. I may just be pessimistic however.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The actual reality of the game is that the PC is leader. 

Alistair's reaction in the Landsmeet proves that this is not the case as far as he is concerned.  Your PC does not, in his mind, have a commander role over him.  Your other NPC companions also have points where they will not follow the PC.  The game presents the PC as leader, but not with unqualified or unlimited authority.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 juin 2010 - 08:12 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Bregan did not betray the Wardens for making that choice.

 Alistair's reaction in the Landsmeet proves that this is not the case as far as he is concerned

Just because he demands kingship, does not mean he does not see you as a leader. In fact ALL your other decisions are accepted by him.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 juin 2010 - 08:14 .

[Tirigon]

Hanz54321 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

I know it's OT, but I have a quick question. I know this is a medieval setting, so the ages are skewed in that it is expected for people to die young. But could the availability of magical healing not potentially skew the survival rate of people back the other direction?

I like when conversations wander.  Loghain's age was OT from my initial post about Alistair's character.  That's what makes forums fun!

YES!  I have often thought that with healing magics a lot of the "medeival" aspects of the setting would have to be warped. 

I know that the old mage who is going blind in the mage origin says he would not use "that kind of magic" to reverse his aging.  I know Avernus does use Blood Magic to extend his life.  So we know Blood Magic can be used for life extending purposes.

But even without blood magic - simple heal spells and spirit healer ressurection spells would totally change what is possible in life.  Broke your arm?   In real medieval times a compound fracture let to gangrene and death.  But in Fereldan?  No problem - I'll just cast heal.  There you go - arm is fixed.

I'm glad you mentioned it Phaonica.

Not according to the novels.

Magic CAN NOT ressurrect dead, and except for Avernus´s special tainted blood magic can´t even prolong the life.

Healing spells are awesome and can save people who would have died in reality, but there are few available.

Maric and Loghain, for example, had only 1 mage in their rebellion, and therefore healing magic was reserved for these 2 and the other "important" people like Rowan or important commanders.

The common people in Ferelden would rarely receive magical treatment.


Loghain surely could have received magical treatment, but he mistrusts magic greatly and I doubt he would have allowed any mage to cast a spell on him if it can be avoided somehow.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...
Don't get me wrong, i can certainly see why the PC would feel self-entitlement there after all they have done. But i consider it just that, self-entitlement. There is no reason why these groups wouldn't follow any other Grey Warden with the treaties just the same.

Without him, these groups could not do anything. So yes, he sees it as personal. You might think it's only self entitlement with no meaning. He does not.

tmp7704 wrote...
There can be more than one person with rank of general in the army, it does not mean nor require them both to actively command that army at the same time. And it is better to have two potential generals than one, if just because it ensures there's still someone who can command when the other general falls. Hence allowing one (or both) such general(s) to go together with the commander-in-chief would be pretty reckless.

One who admits he sucks at leadership cannot be considered a "reserve" general by my PC. It depends on perspective and my PC certainly does not see it that way. Nopt swaying your position is invalid. Just not the only valid one.

Btw, Sten does quit or try to take command from you when he thinks you're acting stupid. So no, that doesn't seem like the way Sten acts, really.

No, that's exactly how Sten thinks. He wants you to take charge and he is happy when you show him who is boss, by beating him into surbordination. His approval rises.
Yes, he challenges for leadership, but he quickly realises his place and is happy about it.

[Lord Gremlin]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The actual reality of the game is that the PC is leader. 

Alistair's reaction in the Landsmeet proves that this is not the case as far as he is concerned.  Your PC does not, in his mind, have a commander role over him.  Your other NPC companions also have points where they will not follow the PC.  The game presents the PC as leader, but not with unqualified or unlimited authority.

You can always count on your dog...
Well, also on your undead minion, wolf, bear or spider.

Anyway, point is that no matter what companions think of PC, it's PC's opinion that matters.

[phaonica]

Herr Uhl wrote...

And considering that Duncan is about to get called at a younger age than Loghain, while being in about the same physical condition makes me think that it isn't that long. I may just be pessimistic however.

Oh, I'm not arguing with you

but Loghain's Calling makes me

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Bregan did not betray the Wardens for making that choice.

 Alistair's reaction in the Landsmeet proves that this is not the case as far as he is concerned

Just because he demands kingship, does not mean he does not see you as a leader. In fact ALL your other decisions are accepted by him.

Just because he doesn't kill you or leave your party doesn't mean he accepts your decisions.  He will tell a PC that is hostile that the only reason he's staying in your camp is because you're the only other Warden.

I am not even referring to when he demands kingship.  When he says "absolutely not!," he obviously believes that he has as much say as your PC does in what happens.

I don't understand what your point is about Bregan.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The actual reality of the game is that the PC is leader. 

Alistair's reaction in the Landsmeet proves that this is not the case as far as he is concerned.  Your PC does not, in his mind, have a commander role over him.  Your other NPC companions also have points where they will not follow the PC.  The game presents the PC as leader, but not with unqualified or unlimited authority.

Likewise, the NPCs who are insubordinate can be killed.

And it was made perfectly clear for Alistair that he will not be king and he was happy for it. He changed his mind? Well too bad, my PC was already his leader by virtue of appointing him his leader and refusing to be monarch.

Yes, my PC's authority is not unlimited. But Alistair's act was seen as an act of insubordination. Alistair might not see it that way in hjuis blind rage, but my PC does. Again, you may not share this. But stop tryign to dictate your position as the only valid one, when I am saying that the way you see Alsitair is just as valid as mine.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 juin 2010 - 08:20 .

[Costin_Razvan]

And he will still let you lead. Soldiers might question the decision of their officers, but when at the end of the day they still follow them, it really matters little.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 juin 2010 - 08:23 .

[Tirigon]

phaonica wrote...

I dont think that DAO gives you little room to RP, I actually think the opposite. I think it gives you a very interesting sandbox to weave your characters into. However, because one of the primary RP mechanics in the game is the ability for the PC to make different choices with different consequences, it could be argued that DAO by its nature is inclined to create Mary Sues because no matter what choices you make, you will still be the hero, and you will still win.

I thought so on my first playthrough, too. And on my second. Because both characters were intended to be quite Mary Sue and Badass Motherf*cker choices always fitted to their personality.

But when I was trying to RP something else, I changed my view.


The problem is your choices are usually extreme: For example, you can either agree with the Chantry or call them dicks whenever you talk to one of them. You never have an option like " You know, I find your lore interesting, but since the Maker left us it has little relevance to me. However, i´ll still give you 2 sovereigns because it´s good to help people no matter your motivations."

No, it´s always either "Please bless me!" or "F*ck off I will never help you your Maker killed my puppy!"

And it´s the same with most of the other dialogues.

[tmp7704]

Hanz54321 wrote...

BUT . . . on all my play throughs where Alistair duels Loghain, it's a grind.  I can beat Loghain, but only if I equip Alistair with all my main PCs gear and weapons and/or I go through a lot of heal pots.  And yet if I fight Loghain with my PC I tear him up in under 60 seconds.

It makes no sense in terms of stats and gear.  But whatever.

It basically depends whether your character (or Alistair) resists Loghain's Warcry skill -- if it lands, it kills your damage output for ridiculously long time (up to a minute i think?) and indeed turns the fight into a grind where you barely scratch him. If you do resist it, he takes damage like any other guy.

[phaonica]

Tirigon wrote...

Not according to the novels.

Magic CAN NOT ressurrect dead, and except for Avernus´s special tainted blood magic can´t even prolong the life.

Healing spells are awesome and can save people who would have died in reality, but there are few available.

Maric and Loghain, for example, had only 1 mage in their rebellion, and therefore healing magic was reserved for these 2 and the other "important" people like Rowan or important commanders.

The common people in Ferelden would rarely receive magical treatment.


Loghain surely could have received magical treatment, but he mistrusts magic greatly and I doubt he would have allowed any mage to cast a spell on him if it can be avoided somehow.

Perhaps magical healing would be more available to the nobility, and perhaps someone like Loghain would not have allowed for magic to attempt to extend his "natual lifespan". But, if magic were used to stop viruses and diseases and whatever, would the "natural lifespan" of a person not be proven to be longer?

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The actual reality of the game is that the PC is leader. 

Alistair's reaction in the Landsmeet proves that this is not the case as far as he is concerned.  Your PC does not, in his mind, have a commander role over him.  Your other NPC companions also have points where they will not follow the PC.  The game presents the PC as leader, but not with unqualified or unlimited authority.

Likewise, the NPCs who are insubordinate can be killed.

That is simply a fight and you win the fight, not a matter of a just execution.  Alistair does not physically attack you like Zevran, Leliana, Wynne or Sten.

Yes, my PC's authority is not unlimited. But Alistair's act was seen as an act of insubordination. Alistair might not see it that way in hjuis blind rage, but my PC does. Again, you may not share this. But stop tryign to dictate your position as the only valid one, when I am saying that the way you see Alsitair is just as valid as mine.

You could have fooled me.

[Addai]

tmp7704 wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

BUT . . . on all my play throughs where Alistair duels Loghain, it's a grind.  I can beat Loghain, but only if I equip Alistair with all my main PCs gear and weapons and/or I go through a lot of heal pots.  And yet if I fight Loghain with my PC I tear him up in under 60 seconds.

It makes no sense in terms of stats and gear.  But whatever.

It basically depends whether your character (or Alistair) resists Loghain's Warcry skill -- if it lands, it kills your damage output for ridiculously long time (up to a minute i think?) and indeed turns the fight into a grind where you barely scratch him. If you do resist it, he takes damage like any other guy.

Is that mental resistance which checks against War Cry, or physical?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
That is simply a fight and you win the fight, not a matter of a just execution.  Alistair does not physically attack you like Zevran, Leliana, Wynne or Sten.

Irrelevent, it's still seen as insubordination, in front of everyone in the Landsmeet. That's even worse.

In fact had Alistair requested a duel with my PC for leadership, my PC would have respected him a lot more. But I guess it's like someone argued here. Alistair apparently thinks way too little of hismelf, so he figured he isn't relevent to the war effort and him leaving is inconsequential.

As for "fooling you". Read all posts I have written so far and see how I always insist it's my PC's pov and it's nto the only valid one. I am not trying to dictate my playthrough on others, I in fact couldnt' care less how others play it.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 juin 2010 - 08:29 .

[Tirigon]

phaonica wrote...

Perhaps magical healing would be more available to the nobility, and perhaps someone like Loghain would not have allowed for magic to attempt to extend his "natual lifespan". But, if magic were used to stop viruses and diseases and whatever, would the "natural lifespan" of a person not be proven to be longer?

It could prolong the natural lifespan, but I doubt many can afford magical healing. Not even nobles.

I mean, even to fight the Darkspawn at Ostagar only 7!!!! mages were allowed to leave the Circle. How big do you think are the chances a bann can call and get a mage sent?

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The actual reality of the game is that the PC is leader. 

Alistair's reaction in the Landsmeet proves that this is not the case as far as he is concerned.  Your PC does not, in his mind, have a commander role over him.  Your other NPC companions also have points where they will not follow the PC.  The game presents the PC as leader, but not with unqualified or unlimited authority.

Likewise, the NPCs who are insubordinate can be killed.

And it was made perfectly clear for Alistair that he will not be king and he was happy for it. He changed his mind? Well too bad, my PC was already his leader by virtue of appointing him his leader and refusing to be monarch.

Yes, my PC's authority is not unlimited. But Alistair's act was seen as an act of insubordination. Alistair might not see it that way in hjuis blind rage, but my PC does. Again, you may not share this. But stop tryign to dictate your position as the only valid one, when I am saying that the way you see Alsitair is just as valid as mine.

I'm with you KoP, I too saw Alistair's putting his foot down as an act of insubordination. If someone else's character thinks of Alistair as their peer, then that's fine, they have their reasons, but my character did not, and I have mine.

[Costin_Razvan]

Uhm....well Loghain did have about three mages in his personal employ, along with two in Howe's.



Then there is that Bann in Denerim who has about four of them.

[Tirigon]

Hanz54321 wrote...


OOOHhhhhhhh!  And a hard shot to the body! 

Guess Loghain doesn't have long unless you go against the writerr and imagine it that way.

I think it´s 5 years, according to the epilogue if you spare him and sacrifice yourself. But I´m not sure anymore.

[Costin_Razvan]

55 years old, huh? Not a bad age for someone in the Medieval Age to die.