Costin_Razvan wrote...
Uhm....well Loghain did have about three mages in his personal employ, along with two in Howe's.
Then there is that Bann in Denerim who has about four of them.
Tirigon wrote...
phaonica wrote...
Perhaps magical healing would be more available to the nobility, and perhaps someone like Loghain would not have allowed for magic to attempt to extend his "natual lifespan". But, if magic were used to stop viruses and diseases and whatever, would the "natural lifespan" of a person not be proven to be longer?
It could prolong the natural lifespan, but I doubt many can afford magical healing. Not even nobles.
I mean, even to fight the Darkspawn at Ostagar only 7!!!! mages were allowed to leave the Circle. How big do you think are the chances a bann can call and get a mage sent?
And that, to me, is a Mary Sue PC. Obviously others do not share my opinion... that goes without saying. I just can't take that very seriously.phaonica wrote...
I'm with you KoP, I too saw Alistair's putting his foot down as an act of insubordination. If someone else's character thinks of Alistair as their peer, then that's fine, they have their reasons, but my character did not, and I have mine.
Pretty much what the whole thing boils down to, doesn't itKnightofPhoenix wrote...
It depends on perspective and my PC certainly does not see it that way. Nopt swaying your position is invalid. Just not the only valid one.
Oh well, this is probably a good point to stop it?Well, that's when he loses. If he wins and realizes others won't follow him he quits which is very much like Alistair's "i thought you're something else but you suck and i'm outa here" except with extra humiliation handed to the PC. Or at least that's apparently how it was about to happen except in the game that doesn't trigger because the PC and Sten aren't set to stop the fight at 0 hp so it goes into regular death screen.No, that's exactly how Sten thinks. He wants you to take charge and he is happy when you show him who is boss, by beating him into surbordination. His approval rises.
Yes, he challenges for leadership, but he quickly realises his place and is happy about it.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Alistair apparently thinks way too little of hismelf, so he figured he isn't relevent to the war effort and him leaving is inconsequential.
And that, to me, is a Mary Sue PC.
Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 juin 2010 - 08:37 .
Costin_Razvan wrote...
Uhm....well Loghain did have about three mages in his personal employ, along with two in Howe's.
Then there is that Bann in Denerim who has about four of them.
You have a too broad definition of Mary Sues, then. You can't just write off every main character in a video game as one. They are supposed to be especially obnoxious examples of characters not everyone from a specific medium.Tirigon wrote...
All I know of, yes. Except for the villains of course and those who die, because they die.Sarah1281 wrote...
So are all video game protagonists Mary Sues in your eyes just because of their medium?
If you spec the Warden horribly and they die at every single even remotley difficult fight while, say, Alistiar, Morrigan, and Shale kick ass then it's quite easy.Well I found it impoossible to play a Warden who is not a Badass otherf*cker. Though I certainly tried.Again, it is not mandatory but depends on how your RP. If you put actual flaws into your Warden and don't make them perfect then the fact that the character is not you (which is another hallmark of a Mary Sue btw) then that will not doom them to Mary Sue-hood. You don't even have to make your Warden all that likeable or respectable.
You're not necessarily the hero. You're just the protagonist. Whatever you do your main goal has to be either getting the hell out of Ferelden so the Blight becomes someone else's problem (in which case you just stop playing that character as their epilogue would be 'got wasted in Antiva' or 'ran off to the Tevinter to see how they treat blood mages') or you try to stop the Blight so you don't die. You are called the hero of Ferelden because you are efficient enough to stop the Blight before Ferelden gets destroyed so it's just a by-product. Besides, Anora/Alistair can use you and thus make certain that their new champion has great PR even if they immeditely leave never to be seen again.And all these bad things do not change the fact that you´re the hero. I mean, the closest I have to a canon playthrough was a Bloodmage who acted against the chantry and the nobiility whenever possible, and she is still hero of Ferelden and savior of all etc....Or you can make deals with demons, kill innocents, steal blood from your companions to power your spells...this game leaves a lot of room to be corrupted. All you really HAVE to do is stop the Blight but it is in everyone's best interest including the most corrupt of Wardens. I mean, take the Darkspawn Chronicles. Howe is as corrupt as ever but because he's still alive he's trying to stop the Blight because not doing so is really, really stupid.
The only character trait your Warden is required to have is being very skilled at fighting and they have a background that supports th at. Trained by the best as a noble, taught to be a fierce hunter, trained with magic, taught by a very skilled GW-material-herself mother, were a thug for a living...you don't even have to be better than your companions and can easily have them be more useful than you.I certainly didn´t try to play that way. But I have to say, I think DAO gives you surprisingly little room to RP a character in-game. Of course you can imagine something, or write FanFic. But what you can do ingame is waaaay too limited.All of that is only true if you RP it that way which you apparently have been (except for the no one calling you out on your behavior which isn't even remotely true). That doesn't mean everyone else does.
Modifié par Sarah1281, 06 juin 2010 - 08:36 .
Addai67 wrote...
And that, to me, is a Mary Sue PC. Obviously others do not share my opinion... that goes without saying. I just can't take that very seriously.phaonica wrote...
I'm with you KoP, I too saw Alistair's putting his foot down as an act of insubordination. If someone else's character thinks of Alistair as their peer, then that's fine, they have their reasons, but my character did not, and I have mine.
phaonica wrote...
That's true, the availablility might not be high enough to make a significant difference. Seems like the Chantry could use mage healing as a nice source of income, though.
tmp7704 wrote...
Pretty much what the whole thing boils down to, doesn't itKnightofPhoenix wrote...
It depends on perspective and my PC certainly does not see it that way. Not swaying your position is invalid. Just not the only valid one.
Well, that's when he loses. If he wins and realizes others won't follow him he quits which is very much like Alistair's "i thought you're something else but you suck and i'm outa here" except with extra humiliation handed to the PC. Or at least that's apparently how it was about to happen except in the game that doesn't trigger because the PC and Sten aren't set to stop the fight at 0 hp so it goes into regular death screen.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 juin 2010 - 08:40 .
Tirigon wrote...
phaonica wrote...
That's true, the availablility might not be high enough to make a significant difference. Seems like the Chantry could use mage healing as a nice source of income, though.
You should suggest it to them! I bet they´d be thankfulB)
Addai67 wrote...
And that, to me, is a Mary Sue PC. Obviously others do not share my opinion... that goes without saying. I just can't take that very seriously.phaonica wrote...
I'm with you KoP, I too saw Alistair's putting his foot down as an act of insubordination. If someone else's character thinks of Alistair as their peer, then that's fine, they have their reasons, but my character did not, and I have mine.
No, they really don't. Darkspawn are usually not on the surface when it's not a Blight and while the small raiding parties (the size of which you encoutner many times in the game) could attack you, that doesn't mean you're necessarily dead. You can sense them just as easily as they can sense you and they will not take you by surprise. Avernus betrays the Wardens by leaving them to die and fleeing with the 'useful' ones he later used for his experiments. You can say that you can't stop being a Warden but not that being a Warden doesn't prevent you from betraying the others or will automatically get you killed by darkspawn.Lord Gremlin wrote...
My point is that wardens have to be loyal. They don't have a choice. So making someone a Grey Warden is a way to make him 100% loyal to Grey Wardens. Or dead.Maria13 wrote...
Lord Gremlin wrote...
If you're not a Warden yourself, you can always betray wardens. When you join wardens, you can't go back and have to side with them forever. But if you are one of them, tainted and all, if you're not with your brethren then one day you'll wake up surrounded by darkspawn welcome party. That said, maybe genlocks will bring you cookies for betraying other wardens, but most likely those cookies will be made of your meat...Maria13 wrote...
Lord Gremlin wrote...
Heh, somebody is forgetting that before dealing this final blow wardens must develop strategy to actually defeat archdemon.
But you see it doesn't have to be a warden that develops that strategy, the only thing necessary to end a Blight is that a tainted warden delivers the final blow.
...which makes em meatballs, but you get the idea.
I don't quite follow the point you are making here...
Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 juin 2010 - 08:42 .
I think it's the attitude of expecting servility from Alistair no matter what that may make it seem so, because really, he never actually promises that to PC, does he?phaonica wrote...
How does that make my character more of a mary sue than yours?
tmp7704 wrote...
I think it's the attitude of expecting servility from Alistair no matter what that may make it seem so, because really, he never actually promises that to PC, does he?phaonica wrote...
How does that make my character more of a mary sue than yours?
Costin_Razvan wrote...
I think they are all apostates who are given protection by the lord they serve.
The Chantry has power, but not even they can go around angering the nobles just for a few mages.
Aye, i can't remember exactly but i think Gilsa quoted that somewhere just recently? Too lazy to go into the Toolset and dig out the detailsKnightofPhoenix wrote...
Really? That was cut?
Modifié par tmp7704, 06 juin 2010 - 08:44 .
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
And that, to me, is a Mary Sue PC. Obviously others do not share my opinion... that goes without saying. I just can't take that very seriously.phaonica wrote...
I'm with you KoP, I too saw Alistair's putting his foot down as an act of insubordination. If someone else's character thinks of Alistair as their peer, then that's fine, they have their reasons, but my character did not, and I have mine.
Well sorry to say that I can't take your argument seriously either, if you are going to pull the Mary Sue card at every occasion.
It's not a "card," just how I see it. I dislike this view of the Warden, that's all. Personal preference.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
And that, to me, is a Mary Sue PC. Obviously others do not share my opinion... that goes without saying. I just can't take that very seriously.phaonica wrote...
I'm with you KoP, I too saw Alistair's putting his foot down as an act of insubordination. If someone else's character thinks of Alistair as their peer, then that's fine, they have their reasons, but my character did not, and I have mine.
Well sorry to say that I can't take your argument seriously either, if you are going to pull the Mary Sue card at every occasion.
Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 juin 2010 - 08:45 .
See above.Tirigon wrote...
Addai, your calling "Mary Sue" is not helpful if you wish others to see your point. It´s a bit like calling Godwin on others - just a way to say that you lack valid arguments.
Costin_Razvan wrote...
What the Chantry does is slavery at it's finest, in a smaller way for the Templars.
It is why I hate them so much ( hey at least real slavers did not pretend to be "good" guys like the Chantry does ), not that my PCs don't believe in the Maker, they do so quite fine, but the Chantry can burn in hell.
Addai67 wrote...
It's not a "card," just how I see it. I dislike this view of the Warden, that's all. Personal preference.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
And that, to me, is a Mary Sue PC. Obviously others do not share my opinion... that goes without saying. I just can't take that very seriously.phaonica wrote...
I'm with you KoP, I too saw Alistair's putting his foot down as an act of insubordination. If someone else's character thinks of Alistair as their peer, then that's fine, they have their reasons, but my character did not, and I have mine.
Well sorry to say that I can't take your argument seriously either, if you are going to pull the Mary Sue card at every occasion.
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