965 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

My 1st playthrough, I did a little eyeroll at Loghain's line about daughters and pigtails.  It's such an obvious manipulation of the player emotions.  A little too obvious.

[phaonica]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

The blood splatter on Anora is overdramatized, I think, but no I didn't find anything about the Landsmeet to be comical.

[Kryyptehk]

Xandurpein wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

There so account for taste. What is immersive and tragic to some, can be seen as comical by others I suppose. Nothing wrong with that, as long as we are all respectful of one another's feelings.

My feelings, the first time I killed Loghain was close to those KoP described.

Very true. Didn't mean to offend. Obviously your mileage may vary. I found it too over-the-top but I can understand people finding it sad.

[Kryyptehk]

phaonica wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

The blood splatter on Anora is overdramatized, I think, but no I didn't find anything about the Landsmeet to be comical.

By whole thing, I meant the Anora getting splattered with blood. Not the entire Landsmeet, which is my favorite part of the game besides Orzammar. I should probably make that clear.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

My 1st playthrough, I did a little eyeroll at Loghain's line about daughters and pigtails.  It's such an obvious manipulation of the player emotions.  A little too obvious.

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

But whatever you say. Obviously Loghain cannot have a human side, and that he is just manipoulating your emotions. It's not like he is saying goodbye to his single daughter or anything before dying.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

My 1st playthrough, I did a little eyeroll at Loghain's line about daughters and pigtails.  It's such an obvious manipulation of the player emotions.  A little too obvious.

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

But whatever you say. Obviously Loghain cannot have a human side, and that he is just manipoulating your emotions. It's not like he is saying goodbye to his single daughter or anything before dying.

I think she was more talking about the line being corny, which would implicate Bioware trying to manipulate the player's emotions. Not Loghain. But that's how I read her post.

I personally found the line heartbreaking but that was ruined by my mage wielding a huge sword to cut his head off and the blood splattering on his daughter.

[phaonica]

Kryyptehk wrote...

I think she was more talking about the line being corny, which would implicate Bioware trying to manipulate the player's emotions. Not Loghain. But that's how I read her post.

That's not how I read it. If that's what she meant, then fair enough, but otherwise that's pretty harsh.

[Xandurpein]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

Cold hearted = Someone who doesn't cry when I do. Sissy = Someone who cries when I don't.

Can't we just accept that people feel differently, without one feeling being worth less than the other.

[Addai]

Kryyptehk wrote...

I think she was more talking about the line being corny, which would implicate Bioware trying to manipulate the player's emotions. Not Loghain. But that's how I read her post.

Yes, hence why I said player emotions and not character emotions.

[Kryyptehk]

Xandurpein wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

Cold hearted = Someone who doesn't cry when I do. Sissy = Someone who cries when I don't.

Can't we just accept that people feel differently, without one feeling being worth less than the other.

Truthful post is truthful.

[Merilsell]

Addai67 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

My 1st playthrough, I did a little eyeroll at Loghain's line about daughters and pigtails.  It's such an obvious manipulation of the player emotions.  A little too obvious.

This.

Then again, I laughed when my Mahariel beheaded Loghain. Blame her not me. She hated him beyond words and hence elicited such feelings out of me

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xandurpein wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

Cold hearted = Someone who doesn't cry when I do. Sissy = Someone who cries when I don't.

Can't we just accept that people feel differently, without one feeling being worth less than the other.

It was not a personal attack on Addai. Just saying that some people already said that I was those things.

And apparently she meant the line being written as corny. Though I strongly disagree, I misinterpretted her post.

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

My 1st playthrough, I did a little eyeroll at Loghain's line about daughters and pigtails.  It's such an obvious manipulation of the player emotions.  A little too obvious.

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

But whatever you say. Obviously Loghain cannot have a human side, and that he is just manipoulating your emotions. It's not like he is saying goodbye to his single daughter or anything before dying.

I think she was more talking about the line being corny, which would implicate Bioware trying to manipulate the player's emotions. Not Loghain. But that's how I read her post.

I personally found the line heartbreaking but that was ruined by my mage wielding a huge sword to cut his head off and the blood splattering on his daughter.

Was it unrealistic that the blood would get on her, though? Blood always splatters in the game and Anora was standing practically right next to him. How could she have possibly avoided it? I commend her for being able to hold it together and finish the Landsmeet and even marry you/Alistair given your involvement in her father's death and the fact she's soaked in his blood. I know I wouldn't have been able to do that.

[Kryyptehk]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Misty eyed, really? To be honest, I found the whole thing comical. The blood getting on Anora seemed like Crossing the Line Twice, not a tragic thing. I understand the implication and all that, but I laughed out loud when it happened.

My 1st playthrough, I did a little eyeroll at Loghain's line about daughters and pigtails.  It's such an obvious manipulation of the player emotions.  A little too obvious.

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

But whatever you say. Obviously Loghain cannot have a human side, and that he is just manipoulating your emotions. It's not like he is saying goodbye to his single daughter or anything before dying.

I think she was more talking about the line being corny, which would implicate Bioware trying to manipulate the player's emotions. Not Loghain. But that's how I read her post.

I personally found the line heartbreaking but that was ruined by my mage wielding a huge sword to cut his head off and the blood splattering on his daughter.

Was it unrealistic that the blood would get on her, though? Blood always splatters in the game and Anora was standing practically right next to him. How could she have possibly avoided it? I commend her for being able to hold it together and finish the Landsmeet and even marry you/Alistair given your involvement in her father's death and the fact she's soaked in his blood. I know I wouldn't have been able to do that.

I wouldn't have thought anything of it. I don't know, it just seems so out of place in the otherwise solemn scene.

[Xandurpein]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And then they call me rutheless and cold hearted.

Cold hearted = Someone who doesn't cry when I do. Sissy = Someone who cries when I don't.

Can't we just accept that people feel differently, without one feeling being worth less than the other.

It was not a personal attack on Addai. Just saying that some people already said that I was those things.

And apparently she meant the line being written as corny. Though I strongly disagree, I misinterpretted her post

My main point was really is that how we view things is very much shaped by our own preconceptions. If you do feel that Loghain is a tragic figure, his end saying goodbye to his daughter is a very sad and tragic moment. If on the other hand you are of the opinion that Loghain is an evil monster, then it's easy to just dismiss the scene as a crude attempt at manipulation by Bioware. It's all about being able to see different sides of the same thing.

Personally I see both the outcome when Loghain dies and the outcome when Alistair leaves the wardens in disgust as truly tragic moments in the game. I suppose it's easy to dismiss either of them, but I don't.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 07 juin 2010 - 06:08 .

[Oloria]

On my first playthrough, my PC executed Loghain and I will admit that as I clicked through the dialog, I personally shared a little of her righteous rage at him. Then I was completely surprised by how honourable Loghain was in defeat and death. I had been expecting hateful spits and curses (like Howe's death) and instead saw him comfort his daughter and accept his fate. At that point I remember thinking, maybe I've misjudged this guy...



So personally I liked the line. I think it could have sounded corny had it not been so well-delivered, but Loghain has the voice-acting to carry it off in my opinion.

[Giggles_Manically]

The best way to change your mind about Loghain is to listen to his banter, Wynne/Dog/Sten especially. His dialouge is pretty cool too, really changes what I thought happened. However the Alistairites dont see this, and call him a liar. Read Macbeth, or any really good Shakespearen Epic and you will really appreciate how well done Loghain was done.

[Kryyptehk]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The best way to change your mind about Loghain is to listen to his banter, Wynne/Dog/Sten especially. His dialouge is pretty cool too, really changes what I thought happened. However the Alistairites dont see this, and call him a liar. Read Macbeth, or any really good Shakespearen Epic and you will really appreciate how well done Loghain was done.

Rather prosumptious, aren't you? I personally like Loghain as a character, even though I often choose to keep Alistair.

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The best way to change your mind about Loghain is to listen to his banter, Wynne/Dog/Sten especially. His dialouge is pretty cool too, really changes what I thought happened. However the Alistairites dont see this, and call him a liar. Read Macbeth, or any really good Shakespearen Epic and you will really appreciate how well done Loghain was done.

You are very tiresome, ser.

I've heard all the Loghain dialogues, read the novels.  I do think Loghain lies to himself, and some of the VO notes even support this (such as when he tells the PC he would have saved Cailan if he could have), and hence lies to others, too.  I see him as a tragic figure.  I like him as a young character, and like the Maric-Loghain friendship.  None of this changes my opinion of what Loghain has become in DAO time, however.  I've never had any qualms about cutting his head off.

[Giggles_Manically]

And you are annoying Ser, so we are even.

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

My main point was really is that how we view things is very much shaped by our own preconceptions. If you do feel that Loghain is a tragic figure, his end saying goodbye to his daughter is a very sad and tragic moment. If on the other hand you are of the opinion that Loghain is an evil monster, then it's easy to just dismiss the scene as a crude attempt at manipulation by Bioware. It's all about being able to see different sides of the same thing.

Personally I see both the outcome when Loghain dies and the outcome when Alistair leaves the wardens in disgust as truly tragic moments in the game. I suppose it's easy to dismiss either of them, but I don't.

I do see Loghain as a tragic figure, not an evil monster.  However I just don't think that scene was handled well.  Much of the emotional impact of the late game is stunted.  It felt too contrived that Loghain turns to the PC (not to Anora) and says that very obviously drippy line.  The blood splatter on Anora's face is also a bit much, but that was the point where I just shook my head.

[Giggles_Manically]

The Endgame is bad because of how much got left out due to its November release, instead of in the spring. I will look up a rough account of all that got left unimplemented because of this.

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

And you are annoying Ser, so we are even.

Not even bothering to make a point now, eh?

[Axekix]

These threads always turn out so entertaining!

[Lady Catastrophe]

Make love,not war,people.



On a related note,while I myself am an Alistairite,I think Loghain kicks ass.