965 réponses à ce sujet

[Kryyptehk]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Fun fact, Goliath in Gargoyles is voiced by Keith David, who voiced James Anderson in Mass Effect 1 and 2. I love his voice!
So technically, we are not that off-topic....

I knew Anderson's voice sounded familiar. I just couldn't place it. Been years since I watched Gargoyles.

I believe he also narrated some show, I think it was City Confidential? Or the guy sounds a lot like him.

[Giggles_Manically]

My friend has a VHS collection of it! I will put it through his DVD transfer and have almost the entire series on about 8 DVDs. I wonder what else he has in his house now?

[LadyDamodred]

Sarah1281 wrote...

@Giggles: What I am finding with your comments, and I could be wrong, is that you don't seem to think the PC can have any reason for wanting Loghain executed other than just following what Alistair wants. If that is not the impression you are trying to give, then something has gone wrong somewhere.

I'm not sure if anyone does actually kill Loghain solely because Alistair wants them to but I have seen a lot of arguments to the effect of 'I had to kill Loghain because I couldn't do that to Alistair.' I get that Alistair is angry and maybe even hurt if I choose to spare Loghain even though he makes it clear that I have to choose between them. Just the same, the thought of killing someone solely because I don't want to upset or hurt someone else, no matter how much I care for them...I couldn't do it. I would need a more compelling reason of my own and not everyone offers that up even if they do also have other reasons for their decision.

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

[Giggles_Manically]

Part of the reason that I came off so strong is because I had just gotten past the Landsmeet and it went south only at the end for me. I loved Alistair until his whole "Death/Murder/Kill" speech really sad. I wish things could have gone different but hey you can only do so much in a game. After what happened the whole end of the game my face was like:

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that
makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

It's clear he wants him dead though. "Kill him already" kinda of points to it.

Would he be as hurt if Loghain was spared and not made a Warden? Maybe not. But I would still think Alsitair would be pissed off and would probably react the same way.

[Sarah1281]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

@Giggles: What I am finding with your comments, and I could be wrong, is that you don't seem to think the PC can have any reason for wanting Loghain executed other than just following what Alistair wants. If that is not the impression you are trying to give, then something has gone wrong somewhere.

I'm not sure if anyone does actually kill Loghain solely because Alistair wants them to but I have seen a lot of arguments to the effect of 'I had to kill Loghain because I couldn't do that to Alistair.' I get that Alistair is angry and maybe even hurt if I choose to spare Loghain even though he makes it clear that I have to choose between them. Just the same, the thought of killing someone solely because I don't want to upset or hurt someone else, no matter how much I care for them...I couldn't do it. I would need a more compelling reason of my own and not everyone offers that up even if they do also have other reasons for their decision.

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

Since the only options you are given are killing Loghain or making him a Warden if you base your decision solely on the belief that making Loghain a Warden is too hurtful to Alistair then, game mechanic or not, you are killing a man to avoid hurting Alistair.

[Giggles_Manically]

Alistair gets the short end of the stick alot it seems.

[phaonica]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
I'm not sure if anyone does actually kill Loghain solely because Alistair wants them to but I have seen a lot of arguments to the effect of 'I had to kill Loghain because I couldn't do that to Alistair.' I get that Alistair is angry and maybe even hurt if I choose to spare Loghain even though he makes it clear that I have to choose between them. Just the same, the thought of killing someone solely because I don't want to upset or hurt someone else, no matter how much I care for them...I couldn't do it. I would need a more compelling reason of my own and not everyone offers that up even if they do also have other reasons for their decision.

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

I only argue that characters who spare Loghain do not necessarily believe that the arguments for executing Loghain are invalid or without gravity, and thusly I would hope that the arguments for sparing Loghain would not be dismissed as such, either.

And yes, you cannot spare Loghain without making him a Warden. I for one, would have tried to comprimise by not making Loghain a GW if I could have.

[Asdara]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Alistair gets the short end of the stick alot it seems.

Not as much as the PC though.  In my humble opinion.  We really get shafted pretty much all the way through the journey and have to smile while we're eating it so everyone else can keep their spirits up. 

[LadyDamodred]

Sarah1281 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

@Giggles: What I am finding with your comments, and I could be wrong, is that you don't seem to think the PC can have any reason for wanting Loghain executed other than just following what Alistair wants. If that is not the impression you are trying to give, then something has gone wrong somewhere.

I'm not sure if anyone does actually kill Loghain solely because Alistair wants them to but I have seen a lot of arguments to the effect of 'I had to kill Loghain because I couldn't do that to Alistair.' I get that Alistair is angry and maybe even hurt if I choose to spare Loghain even though he makes it clear that I have to choose between them. Just the same, the thought of killing someone solely because I don't want to upset or hurt someone else, no matter how much I care for them...I couldn't do it. I would need a more compelling reason of my own and not everyone offers that up even if they do also have other reasons for their decision.

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

Since the only options you are given are killing Loghain or making him a Warden if you base your decision solely on the belief that making Loghain a Warden is too hurtful to Alistair then, game mechanic or not, you are killing a man to avoid hurting Alistair.

Since I have already said mulitple times that is not my sole reason, I'm not going to bother addressing that anymore.  i was merely attempting to address an oversight I may have committed.

KoP:  Yes, and I understand that, and some characters would even agree.  The problem is I don't have an option to spare him without making Loghain a Warden.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
KoP:  Yes, and I understand that, and some characters would even agree.  The problem is I don't have an option to spare him without making Loghain a Warden.

And if it generated the exact same reaction from Alistair. Would you?

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that
makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

It's clear he wants him dead though. "Kill him already" kinda of points to it.

Would he be as hurt if Loghain was spared and not made a Warden? Maybe not. But I would still think Alsitair would be pissed off and would probably react the same way.

I'm inclined to believe he would be pissed off, but there is a better chance that you could talk him down from leaving permanently.

[Sarah1281]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

@Giggles: What I am finding with your comments, and I could be wrong, is that you don't seem to think the PC can have any reason for wanting Loghain executed other than just following what Alistair wants. If that is not the impression you are trying to give, then something has gone wrong somewhere.

I'm not sure if anyone does actually kill Loghain solely because Alistair wants them to but I have seen a lot of arguments to the effect of 'I had to kill Loghain because I couldn't do that to Alistair.' I get that Alistair is angry and maybe even hurt if I choose to spare Loghain even though he makes it clear that I have to choose between them. Just the same, the thought of killing someone solely because I don't want to upset or hurt someone else, no matter how much I care for them...I couldn't do it. I would need a more compelling reason of my own and not everyone offers that up even if they do also have other reasons for their decision.

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

Since the only options you are given are killing Loghain or making him a Warden if you base your decision solely on the belief that making Loghain a Warden is too hurtful to Alistair then, game mechanic or not, you are killing a man to avoid hurting Alistair.

Since I have already said mulitple times that is not my sole reason, I'm not going to bother addressing that anymore.  i was merely attempting to address an oversight I may have committed.

KoP:  Yes, and I understand that, and some characters would even agree.  The problem is I don't have an option to spare him without making Loghain a Warden.

I didn't mean 'you' as in you personally, I meant 'you' as in the people who only ever give not wanting to hurt Alistair as their sole reason and that even if they would be fine with sparing Loghain if it didn't mean making him a Warden since they can't IF that is their only reason they're providing then it's one and the same. Killing someone to not hurt somebody else.

[Giggles_Manically]

Cant we all just go back to talking about Gargoyles!





Rember Goliath is watching!

[LadyDamodred]

phaonica wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Just to clarify, it's making Loghain a Warden that I find too hurtful to Alistair.  It is a limitation of the game that
makes them one and the same.  I realize I may not have specified that.

It's clear he wants him dead though. "Kill him already" kinda of points to it.

Would he be as hurt if Loghain was spared and not made a Warden? Maybe not. But I would still think Alsitair would be pissed off and would probably react the same way.

I'm inclined to believe he would be pissed off, but there is a better chance that you could talk him down from leaving permanently.

I could see that as maybe being a really high persuade check, whereas I don't think you should be able to persuade Alistair to accept Loghain as a Warden, like I've seen some people suggest.

KoP:  It would truly depend on the character.  Some would execute Alistair Loghain and some would be like "Seriously?  He lost, he has nothing left, he's been exposed as traitor.  We don't need to do this right now.  Let's just use him."

Edit:  Friggin' typos!

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 07 juin 2010 - 08:44 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Cant we all just go back to talking about Gargoyles!


Rember Goliath is watching!

[Giggles_Manically]

What happened to Xanatos I rember something bad happening at the end to someone, it may have been him. Who voiced Xanatos anyway?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
KoP:  Yes, and I understand that, and some characters would even agree.  The problem is I don't have an option to spare him without making Loghain a Warden.

And if it generated the exact same reaction from Alistair. Would you?

I would, but that's just me. I also think that sparing Loghain and sending him into exhile, or find some other punishment, might be more palatable to Alistair than making him a Warden. I think if the option was there, Alistair would probably groan and be pissed off, lose some approval, but I honestly do not think Alistair would leave.

It's the making Loghain a Warden that sets Alistair over the edge. It's bad enough to refuse to kill him, but like many things, I think Alistair could learn to deal with it, though he might not like it. But in Alistair's eyes, Loghain is the one who killed Duncan and the other Wardens, and thus, too him, you've gone beyond a slap in the face. You make the "killer" of his pseudo-father into a member of the same order, a thing that Alistair considers the highest honor. It would be to him, like a Catholic being forced to accept Judas Iscariot as a saint and a replacement for Jesus.

[phaonica]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What happened to Xanatos I rember something bad happening at the end to someone, it may have been him. Who voiced Xanatos anyway?

Oh noes, don't tell. I haven't seen it. I know we're in the spoilers section and all but wrong title!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What happened to Xanatos I rember something bad happening at the end to someone, it may have been him. Who voiced Xanatos anyway?

*Spoilers* Xanatos was fine at the end. A loving husband and father. And a host to the Gargoyles once again.

And he's voiced by Jonathan Frakes from Star Trek.



And the character's wife in Star Trek is the one who voiced Demona.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 juin 2010 - 08:53 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Actually there is a movement to recognize Judas as a saint in the church. Some people believe that newly found non-canon scripture say that Jesus made him do this to help him fulfill the prophochy, and that it cause him a lot of pain to do this. Heard this through a Catholic friend, will find a link for y'all.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What happened to Xanatos I rember something bad happening at the end to someone, it may have been him. Who voiced Xanatos anyway?

Xanatos was fine at the end. A loving husband and father. And a host to the Gargoyles once again.

And he's voiced by Jonathan Frakes from Star Trek.



And the character's wife in Star Trek is the one who voiced Demona.

Is it wrong to say I want to have his babies?

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What happened to Xanatos I rember something bad happening at the end to someone, it may have been him. Who voiced Xanatos anyway?

*Spoilers* Xanatos was fine at the end. A loving husband and father. And a host to the Gargoyles once again.

And he's voiced by Jonathan Frakes from Star Trek.



And the character's wife in Star Trek is the one who voiced Demona.

****....I knew I recognized the actor from somewhere.

Now I REALLY am going to see the series. Xanatos even looks like Riker a bit.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juin 2010 - 08:55 .

[Sarah1281]

phaonica wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What happened to Xanatos I rember something bad happening at the end to someone, it may have been him. Who voiced Xanatos anyway?

Oh noes, don't tell. I haven't seen it. I know we're in the spoilers section and all but wrong title!

Then don't click here.

[phaonica]

You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).

Edit: sorry, this isn't aimed at what I quoted, it was just a general observation

Modifié par phaonica, 07 juin 2010 - 08:59 .