Sarah1281 wrote...
Then don't click here.phaonica wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
What happened to Xanatos I rember something bad happening at the end to someone, it may have been him. Who voiced Xanatos anyway?
Oh noes, don't tell. I haven't seen it. I know we're in the spoilers section and all but wrong title!
phaonica wrote...
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
It's the making Loghain a Warden that sets Alistair over the edge. It's bad enough to refuse to kill him, but like many things, I think Alistair could learn to deal with it, though he might not like it. But in Alistair's eyes, Loghain is the one who killed Duncan and the other Wardens, and thus, too him, you've gone beyond a slap in the face. You make the "killer" of his pseudo-father into a member of the same order, a thing that Alistair considers the highest honor. It would be to him, like a Catholic being forced to accept Judas Iscariot as a saint and a replacement for Jesus.
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 juin 2010 - 08:59 .
phaonica wrote...
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
It's the making Loghain a Warden that sets Alistair over the edge. It's bad enough to refuse to kill him, but like many things, I think Alistair could learn to deal with it, though he might not like it. But in Alistair's eyes, Loghain is the one who killed Duncan and the other Wardens, and thus, too him, you've gone beyond a slap in the face. You make the "killer" of his pseudo-father into a member of the same order, a thing that Alistair considers the highest honor. It would be to him, like a Catholic being forced to accept Judas Iscariot as a saint and a replacement for Jesus.
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
It could be explained that way, I suppose. But if he won the Landsmeet .... what then?KnightofPhoenix wrote...
phaonica wrote...
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
This could be explained that Loghain would be charged with treason or crime by the Landsmeet and be emprisonned / executed regardless. So the only way to bypass the law is to use the Right of Conscription.
I personally always hate when I am backed into an artificial corner with only two choices. I am the kind of guy that always looks for several possibilities and alternatives before acting and I seldom came accross a situation that I truly believed had only two choices.
I don't see how you could spare him. He seems pretty set on killing you and never yields like other people do in the game. You get an option to spare Vaughan as he doesn't want fighting to interrupt his rape party but if Howe doesn't stop trying to kill you until he's mortally wounded then there's not much you can do.phaonica wrote...
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
Edit: sorry, this isn't aimed at what I quoted, it was just a general observation
Then he tries to kill you and when you launch your coup the Landsmeet says they are throwing out their old vote and abiding by whoever wins the duel.It could be explained that way, I suppose. But if he won the Landsmeet .... what then?
Honestly, I think death would be preferable to someone like Loghain. He'd want to either die with some semblance of dignity or get a chance to redeem himself.It's an annoying thing. I always said I wanted a third option: to spare Loghain but find some sort of punishment or exile. In most of my playthroughs, I have little to no desire to make him a Warden. But that doesn't necessarily mean I want his head on a plate, either. It really was too much a two choice scenario for my liking.
phaonica wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Indeed. Despite how heart wrenching the execution scene is, and how it would be considered a judicial disaster by our standarts, I think Loghain died with honor and dignity. The good of Ferelden being the last thing he thinks about before letting go.
Made me quite misty eyed actually
Agreed. The first time I saw it, I was sure I'd made a huge mistake.
You know I really worried about this same thing, that he wouldn't take a second chance, or he would be miserable living with himself. But after seeing him in Awakening, I don't think this is the case. Even if he weren't a GW, I think he'd be okay.Sarah1281 wrote...
Honestly, I think death would be preferable to someone like Loghain. He'd want to either die with some semblance of dignity or get a chance to redeem himself.
Loghain orders the PC, Alistair and Eamon to be taken outside to await execution.phaonica wrote...
It could be explained that way, I suppose. But if he won the Landsmeet .... what then?KnightofPhoenix wrote...
phaonica wrote...
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
This could be explained that Loghain would be charged with treason or crime by the Landsmeet and be emprisonned / executed regardless. So the only way to bypass the law is to use the Right of Conscription.
Merilsell wrote...
Anyway to visualize it, here a chart about internet debattes:
Sums it up, I think
Sarah1281 wrote...
Then he tries to kill you and when you launch your coup the Landsmeet says they are throwing out their old vote and abiding by whoever wins the duel.It could be explained that way, I suppose. But if he won the Landsmeet .... what then?
Sarah1281 wrote...
Honestly, I think death would be preferable to someone like Loghain. He'd want to either die with some semblance of dignity or get a chance to redeem himself.
Addai67 wrote...
Loghain orders the PC, Alistair and Eamon to be taken outside to await execution.phaonica wrote...
It could be explained that way, I suppose. But if he won the Landsmeet .... what then?KnightofPhoenix wrote...
phaonica wrote...
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
This could be explained that Loghain would be charged with treason or crime by the Landsmeet and be emprisonned / executed regardless. So the only way to bypass the law is to use the Right of Conscription.
Have you ever lost a Landsmeet vote? I recommend it. Makes for an interesting scene, much more interesting than winning it.
Sarah1281 wrote...
BTW, is it possible to decapitate Howe in combat and then have his head magically reattach itself for the cutscene?
Tirigon wrote...
Me not. I think Loghain died quite "good" (for lack of a more appropriate word). He died - as KoP says - with honor and dignity, and he dies for the good of Ferelden. Actually, during his execution I can see more honor and care for his country in him than during everything he does before since Ostagar.
Modifié par phaonica, 07 juin 2010 - 09:20 .
I was just arguing it as a game mechanic. The developers could have stopped the fight early, just as they do with Loghain.Sarah1281 wrote...
I don't see how you could spare him. He seems pretty set on killing you and never yields like other people do in the game. You get an option to spare Vaughan as he doesn't want fighting to interrupt his rape party but if Howe doesn't stop trying to kill you until he's mortally wounded then there's not much you can do.
It's like how you're incapable of sparing Leske even if he is literally the only carta member alive in the entire carta and should at least get a 'come on, I won so stop being an idiot' line.phaonica wrote...
I was just arguing it as a game mechanic. The developers could have stopped the fight early, just as they do with Loghain.Sarah1281 wrote...
I don't see how you could spare him. He seems pretty set on killing you and never yields like other people do in the game. You get an option to spare Vaughan as he doesn't want fighting to interrupt his rape party but if Howe doesn't stop trying to kill you until he's mortally wounded then there's not much you can do.
Ok, I'm still not sure I understand what you mean.phaonica wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
Loghain orders the PC, Alistair and Eamon to be taken outside to await execution.phaonica wrote...
It could be explained that way, I suppose. But if he won the Landsmeet .... what then?KnightofPhoenix wrote...
phaonica wrote...
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
This could be explained that Loghain would be charged with treason or crime by the Landsmeet and be emprisonned / executed regardless. So the only way to bypass the law is to use the Right of Conscription.
Have you ever lost a Landsmeet vote? I recommend it. Makes for an interesting scene, much more interesting than winning it.
I have lost, I just didn't explain what I meant very well.
Do you mean 'is Loghain considered guilty of treason if he won the Landsmeet and all the nobles are on his side but you happened to beat him in hand-to-hand combat'?Addai67 wrote...
Ok, I'm still not sure I understand what you mean.phaonica wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
Loghain orders the PC, Alistair and Eamon to be taken outside to await execution.phaonica wrote...
It could be explained that way, I suppose. But if he won the Landsmeet .... what then?KnightofPhoenix wrote...
phaonica wrote...
You know, the game mechanic as it is does seem to just assume that the player should have utterly no reason to spare Loghain except possibly making him a GW, the same way that it gives you no option to attempt to spare Howe (in the case that your character can think of some reason to keep him around).
This could be explained that Loghain would be charged with treason or crime by the Landsmeet and be emprisonned / executed regardless. So the only way to bypass the law is to use the Right of Conscription.
Have you ever lost a Landsmeet vote? I recommend it. Makes for an interesting scene, much more interesting than winning it.
I have lost, I just didn't explain what I meant very well.
Addai67 wrote...
Ok, I'm still not sure I understand what you mean.phaonica wrote...
I have lost, I just didn't explain what I meant very well.
Modifié par phaonica, 07 juin 2010 - 09:41 .
Sarah1281 wrote...
Do you mean 'is Loghain considered guilty of treason if he won the Landsmeet and all the nobles are on his side but you happened to beat him in hand-to-hand combat'?
Sarah1281 wrote...
It's like how you're incapable of sparing Leske even if he is literally the only carta member alive in the entire carta and should at least get a 'come on, I won so stop being an idiot' line.phaonica wrote...
I was just arguing it as a game mechanic. The developers could have stopped the fight early, just as they do with Loghain.Sarah1281 wrote...
I don't see how you could spare him. He seems pretty set on killing you and never yields like other people do in the game. You get an option to spare Vaughan as he doesn't want fighting to interrupt his rape party but if Howe doesn't stop trying to kill you until he's mortally wounded then there's not much you can do.
This is the line that confuses me. Because if Loghain wins the Landsmeet, it's the Wardens and Eamon who lose their head and there's no question of sparing Loghain. So if you lost the vote and lost the duel, it would be curtains.phaonica wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
Ok, I'm still not sure I understand what you mean.phaonica wrote...
I have lost, I just didn't explain what I meant very well.
I had said that because your choices consist of "kill Loghain" or "make him a GW" that the game seemed to assume that no one would have any reason to want to spare Loghain, except to have the possiblity of having another GW.
KoP suggested that perhaps you have to Conscript Loghain at that point, to avoid an execution that the Landsmeet would otherwise carry out, which implies that even if you win the duel, the sanctioned-by-the-Landsmeet execution would still carry through.
So I was asking if Loghain won the Landsmeet, then there would be no sanctioned-by-the-Landsmeet execution, and you would not need to Conscript Loghain in order to spare him.
Unless it is losing the duel itself that demands that the loser be executed, in which case perhaps you do have to conscript Loghain in order to spare him.
No, it's if you lose the vote but win the duel. The Landsmeet is on his side but agreed to follow the outcome of the duel and you won that. Why would the Landsmeet insist on killing him so that if you were inclined to spare him you'd have to conscript him to avoid having him executed?Addai67 wrote...
This is the line that confuses me. Because if Loghain wins the Landsmeet, it's the Wardens and Eamon who lose their head and there's no question of sparing Loghain. So if you lost the vote and lost the duel, it would be curtains.phaonica wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
Ok, I'm still not sure I understand what you mean.phaonica wrote...
I have lost, I just didn't explain what I meant very well.
I had said that because your choices consist of "kill Loghain" or "make him a GW" that the game seemed to assume that no one would have any reason to want to spare Loghain, except to have the possiblity of having another GW.
KoP suggested that perhaps you have to Conscript Loghain at that point, to avoid an execution that the Landsmeet would otherwise carry out, which implies that even if you win the duel, the sanctioned-by-the-Landsmeet execution would still carry through.
So I was asking if Loghain won the Landsmeet, then there would be no sanctioned-by-the-Landsmeet execution, and you would not need to Conscript Loghain in order to spare him.
Unless it is losing the duel itself that demands that the loser be executed, in which case perhaps you do have to conscript Loghain in order to spare him.
Maybe you mean that there should be another alternative for punishing Loghain like imprisonment or exile?
phaonica wrote...
I had said that because your choices consist of "kill Loghain" or "make him a GW" that the game seemed to assume that no one would have any reason to want to spare Loghain, except to have the possiblity of having another GW.
KoP suggested that perhaps you have to Conscript Loghain at that point, to avoid an execution that the Landsmeet would otherwise carry out, which implies that even if you win the duel, the sanctioned-by-the-Landsmeet execution would still carry through.
So I was asking if Loghain won the Landsmeet, then there would be no sanctioned-by-the-Landsmeet execution, and you would not need to Conscript Loghain in order to spare him.
Unless it is losing the duel itself that demands that the loser be executed, in which case perhaps you do have to conscript Loghain in order to spare him.
Modifié par Tirigon, 07 juin 2010 - 09:59 .
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