965 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Xandurpein wrote...

Loghain says that Anora probably liked being rescued, even if her life strictly wasn't in danger. I fail to see how anyone can equte this to being a "power-crazed witch who can't be trusted". If that is the level of logic that is accepted, I can make a good case why a lot of people, including Alistair himself, would be an utter disaster for Ferelden as King.

Loghain NEVER called Anora a "power-crazed witch who can't be trusted", so don't put words in his mouth. It's just sloppy and bogus. 

I don't think anybody calls anyone "power crazed witch" in the game. But feigning being in mortal danger isn't showing yourself as trustworthy. And Loghain does say that she does exactly that. I didn't say anything about "power crazed witchdom".

Edit: And WHAT does Alastair have to do with anything in this case?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 12 juin 2010 - 06:23 .

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I really don't blame her for that...

Of course, she's lying to you and she knows it.  When it comes down to it, facing Cauthrien and a room full of soldiers, even expecting you to put your own life on the line for her supposed suspicion that her father would kill her is asking a lot.  She is the queen and Loghain only her regent.  You are nameless outlaws.  Her chances in that situation are a lot better than yours.

Oh, I know she's lying but even the most suspicious of Wardens can't be sure of it. If you reveal her then she's not really going to have all that much faith in your inclination to help her which is why she's doing this in the first place.

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Loghain says that Anora probably liked being rescued, even if her life strictly wasn't in danger. I fail to see how anyone can equte this to being a "power-crazed witch who can't be trusted". If that is the level of logic that is accepted, I can make a good case why a lot of people, including Alistair himself, would be an utter disaster for Ferelden as King.

Loghain NEVER called Anora a "power-crazed witch who can't be trusted", so don't put words in his mouth. It's just sloppy and bogus. 

I don't think anybody calls anyone "power crazed witch" in the game. But feigning being in mortal danger isn't showing yourself as trustworthy. And Loghain does say that she does exactly that. I didn't say anything about "power crazed witchdom".

This is what Loghain says:
PC: Were you really going to kill Anora?
Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.
PC: Why would she invent such a story?
If Loghain friendly
Loghain: I didn't say that. Howe suggested the possibility; I rejected it, of course. Undoubtably, that discussion was the inspiration for her story. Anora is a politician at heart. There's one thing she konws; it's hard to move people.
PC: Why me, though?
Loghain: Is that a serious question? Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the Landsmeet? 

If Anora heard that discussion then she does have reason to believe that Howe will have her killed although not necessarily her father.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

This is what Loghain says:
PC: Were you really going to kill Anora?
Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.
PC: Why would she invent such a story?
If Loghain friendly
Loghain: I didn't say that. Howe suggested the possibility; I rejected it, of course. Undoubtably, that discussion was the inspiration for her story. Anora is a politician at heart. There's one thing she konws; it's hard to move people.
PC: Why me, though?
Loghain: Is that a serious question? Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the Landsmeet? 

If Anora heard that discussion then she does have reason to believe that Howe will have her killed although not necessarily her father.

Anora might have held the belief that she was in mortal peril, but Loghain didn't think that she did, hence the "story" part of it. And that is what my comment was about.

His stance is: She makes up (or embellishes at least) a story about being in danger to make you rescue her.

And going from that stance to thinking that she isn't very trustworthy isn't a huge leap.

[Nero280]

Anyone who thinks Anora is trustworthy is in denial.

[Costin_Razvan]

I always believed that Howe somehow lured Anora into a trap, and allowed Erlina to escape so she could bring the Warden's in Howe's estate and thus into his den.

Of course it all went to hell, but still seemed an intelligent way to deal with the wardens without sparking outrage. Howe could simply claim that the wardens had broken into his house to assassinate him.

 Anyone who thinks Anora is trustworthy is in denial.

She can be trusted as long as it doesn't interfere with her plans.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 juin 2010 - 01:00 .

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Oh, I know she's lying but even the most suspicious of Wardens can't be sure of it. If you reveal her then she's not really going to have all that much faith in your inclination to help her which is why she's doing this in the first place.

I'm too lazy to dig up the quotes and VO notes from the Toolset but while it's never said in explicit manner, the notes and some of the lines you can get in the game seem to boil down to Anora indeed making up the story at least in part, as sort of a test whether a player is truly determined enough to come to her aid (and thus if they can be treated as reliable ally) Which is a pretty sensible move on her part so i can't really hold that against her.

[TheSixthghoul]

Nero280 wrote...

Anyone who thinks Anora is trustworthy is in denial.

It really depends on how you play, if you play a gullible character who say everything they shouldn't, she comes off as and proves untrustworthy.

If you play the cunning characters, an say all the right choices,avoiding stuff like not bring up killing her father or saying you'll support Alistair she'd come off  as trustworthy.

[Xandurpein]

Nero280 wrote...

Anyone who thinks Anora is trustworthy is in denial.

Anora, like many other character's have a issues she won't compromise. Alistair will go bonkers if you save Loghain, Wynne will attack you if you defile the ashes and Anora thinks she should be queen and won't accpet anything else.

If you cross Anora regarding the crown she will set moral's aside and even lie to achieve that end. This doesn't necessarily translate into her being untrustworthy in general. So it does depend on how you see things.

You can for example make a case for that Alistair is untrustworthy, because he betrays the Grey Warden's if he can't kill Loghain, or you can choose to see things differently.

You can make a case for Leliana being untrustworthy becuase she lies about her background to you.

Morrigan most probably lies a lot of the time, even if she is in love with you.

Things aren't all black and white...

[Maria13]

Xandurpein wrote...

Nero280 wrote...

Anyone who thinks Anora is trustworthy is in denial.

Anora, like many other character's have a issues she won't compromise. Alistair will go bonkers if you save Loghain, Wynne will attack you if you defile the ashes and Anora thinks she should be queen and won't accpet anything else.

If you cross Anora regarding the crown she will set moral's aside and even lie to achieve that end. This doesn't necessarily translate into her being untrustworthy in general. So it does depend on how you see things.

You can for example make a case for that Alistair is untrustworthy, because he betrays the Grey Warden's if he can't kill Loghain, or you can choose to see things differently.

You can make a case for Leliana being untrustworthy becuase she lies about her background to you.

Morrigan most probably lies a lot of the time, even if she is in love with you.

Things aren't all black and white...

It's what makes them all such good, believable characters and that is what makes DA:O the great game it is.  No-one is quite what they seem they all have their foibles, weaknesses and limits.

[Xandurpein]

Maria13 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Nero280 wrote...

Anyone who thinks Anora is trustworthy is in denial.

Anora, like many other character's have a issues she won't compromise. Alistair will go bonkers if you save Loghain, Wynne will attack you if you defile the ashes and Anora thinks she should be queen and won't accpet anything else.

If you cross Anora regarding the crown she will set moral's aside and even lie to achieve that end. This doesn't necessarily translate into her being untrustworthy in general. So it does depend on how you see things.

You can for example make a case for that Alistair is untrustworthy, because he betrays the Grey Warden's if he can't kill Loghain, or you can choose to see things differently.

You can make a case for Leliana being untrustworthy becuase she lies about her background to you.

Morrigan most probably lies a lot of the time, even if she is in love with you.

Things aren't all black and white...

It's what makes them all such good, believable characters and that is what makes DA:O the great game it is.  No-one is quite what they seem they all have their foibles, weaknesses and limits.

Agreed!

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I really don't blame her for that...

Of course, she's lying to you and she knows it.  When it comes down to it, facing Cauthrien and a room full of soldiers, even expecting you to put your own life on the line for her supposed suspicion that her father would kill her is asking a lot.  She is the queen and Loghain only her regent.  You are nameless outlaws.  Her chances in that situation are a lot better than yours.

Oh, I know she's lying but even the most suspicious of Wardens can't be sure of it. If you reveal her then she's not really going to have all that much faith in your inclination to help her which is why she's doing this in the first place.

I'm saying that when it comes to that confrontation, you can't be blamed for deciding that Anora's chances are better than yours and giving her up to Cauthrien is a reasonable alternative to suicide.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If Anora heard that discussion then she does have reason to believe that Howe will have her killed although not necessarily her father.

If she turns on you in the Landsmeet, she admits that she never believed her father would kill her.  Of course, at that point, she has to do that since she is supporting him in front of the nobles.

[Addai]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Oh, I know she's lying but even the most suspicious of Wardens can't be sure of it. If you reveal her then she's not really going to have all that much faith in your inclination to help her which is why she's doing this in the first place.

I'm too lazy to dig up the quotes and VO notes from the Toolset but while it's never said in explicit manner, the notes and some of the lines you can get in the game seem to boil down to Anora indeed making up the story at least in part, as sort of a test whether a player is truly determined enough to come to her aid (and thus if they can be treated as reliable ally) Which is a pretty sensible move on her part so i can't really hold that against her.

I might be able to not do so, but my PC bloody well can.    If it comes out that she was lying, then you realize just how cheaply she values your life.  She would rather see you sent to torture and death than reveal in front of Cauthrien that it was all a game.

Modifié par Addai67, 13 juin 2010 - 06:10 .