17 réponses à ce sujet

[LordKinoda]

With this video in existance I'd say it's obvious this mod [voiced PC] could now be done by somebody with comparable skills.

I by no means have any skill with the toolset, I merely wanted to ask if somebody is working on this presently, or plans to.

From what I've read, the lip sync for the characters is automatically generated with the text you put in to the toolset mechanic ? Don't know if I'm remembering what I read correctly or not. So the hardest part would be the camera angles no ? Working out when is the best time to turn the camera on the warden, and from how far away, etc. Don't know if facial animations are part of the auto generator thing. Doubtful, so I guess that'd have to be done too. But you wouldn't really have to create a bunch of new ones would you ? Just use the vanilla ones somehow ?

The voice actor shouldn't be too hard, because it should be left open for your own sound files if you so choose to insert them. Again, I don't if it's as easy as just dropping your files into the toolset or whatnot. Be great if it was. I know I for one would love to voice the dialog for my own character. This would also be great for the rest of the mod community. Maybe they don't have a microphone to record their dialog and would love to choose from one, of probably many (if the mod was made), of voices. Or if they play a female and they're male, and don't know of anybody to record the dialog for them, or vice versa. Maybe they're not great actors either. Any number of reasons.

So, I'll shut up now and just ask:
 
Is somebody currently working on this, or planning to ? Sure I could search for hours and maybe find my answer, I don't know. Maybe it would be a few minutes. Either way, I think this is a little easier because I can monitor this thread for answers. Thanks in advance for replies.

[skcm]

I think this would be an exceptional idea for a DLC, if the modding community doesn't have the resources. Perhaps this sort of feature should be considered by the powers that be, if it isn't already. It would only add to the immersion for many of the DA:O players.

[mikemike37]

it would require a bunch of quirky edits to the existing conversations, but its not the technical reasons why this mod wouldnt be done by the community, its the time factor. I can't see anyone having the level of commitment to record the countless hours of audio, restructure every conversation and run even the most simple camera setup and automated lip-sync.



And I can't imagine it'd be DLC - Bioware made a conscious decision not to voice the PC - most players read the lines before clicking them (!) - hearing the line after reading it would get tiring very quickly in my opinion. It works in conversation ring games like mass effect where you only choose an expression, mood or tone and you don't hear back word-for-word exactly what you've just chosen. And then theres the issue of a return on the time investment - I can't see many people forking out cash for this.

[LordKinoda]

it would require a bunch of quirky edits to the existing conversations, but its not the technical reasons why this mod wouldnt be done by the community, its the time factor.

That's why it probably best suited for a small team of modders. Such as the people that made that machinima I linked above.

I can't see anyone having the level of commitment to record the countless hours of audio, restructure every conversation and run even the most simple camera setup and automated lip-sync.

Aye, like I said, they don't need to do any dialog. Just insert the robot voice and give (hopefully) simple instructions to the community on how to insert their own. Wouldn't necessarily have to entirely restructure all conversation angles though would you ? You could simply point the camera at the warden like it points at whoever you're talking to does now.

And I can't imagine it'd be DLC - Bioware made a conscious decision not to voice the PC - most players read the lines before clicking them (!) - hearing the line after reading it would get tiring very quickly in my opinion. It works in conversation ring games like mass effect where you only choose an expression, mood or tone and you don't hear back word-for-word exactly what you've just chosen.

Yes they did make a conscious decision, a foolhardy one if I may say so, to not inject spoken dialog. It doesen't give the character any life of his/her own. They're just blank. It was fine before they came out with ME, but now that they have, they've tainted the well. All RPG games should be made that way now. Or at least, most especially because there is a toolset involved, make it an available resource already panned out for those who want to plug in.




You don't NEED to read the entire line before choosing your dialog. A small line with the gist of what will be said would suffice just fine. You would hear back word for word the original text lines, because of that brief explanation of what the line will be. It works great in ME. I know BW said they didn't add the voice because the warden can be so many different looks and genders, races, etc. That's why only the technical apsects NEED to be done. They would just have to make it easily accessible, or at least an in depth tutorial, of how to insert your own dialog. There would be hundreds (maybe even a few thousand) of fans willing to record every single line of dialog for the warden I'm sure, both male and female. So you could have all the variety you ever want. Male effeminate type voices for elves, gruff deep voices for dwarves, different accents, tones, performances, you name it. The community could handle that part. That's the only part I see BW being a little edgy about, but since they wouldn't have to do it, why not go for it.

And then theres the issue of a return on the time investment - I can't see many people forking out cash for this.

Heh, how much time would BW really spend on a project like this ? They could whip it up in a few days if they wanted. No way it would take longer than a week. No way. And just have it cost another $5-8. That'd be worth it, and they'd make a crap ton of money I think.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 07 juin 2010 - 05:37 .

[DarthParametric]

LordKinoda wrote...

Heh, how much time would BW really spend on a project like this ? They could whip it up in a few days if they wanted. No way it would take longer than a week. No way. And just have it cost another $5-8. That'd be worth it, and they'd make a crap ton of money I think.

You're delusional. You'd need to record 6 separate tracks for every PC line in the game. You are potentially talking hundreds of hours of audio. Do you have any idea how long that would take to record and process, not to mention how much it would cost? That's exactly why they didn't do it. Have a look at The Old Republic. That's what they are doing for it and they have basically said it's the most expensive VO for any game ever made. EA are banking on the SW licence and the monthly fee being enough to recoup their investment. It's completely impractical for a SP RPG (especially given that DA probably has more dialogue than TOR).

[Inner]

DarthParametric wrote...

LordKinoda wrote...

Heh, how much time would BW really spend on a project like this ? They could whip it up in a few days if they wanted. No way it would take longer than a week. No way. And just have it cost another $5-8. That'd be worth it, and they'd make a crap ton of money I think.

You're delusional. You'd need to record 6 separate tracks for every PC line in the game. You are potentially talking hundreds of hours of audio. Do you have any idea how long that would take to record and process, not to mention how much it would cost? That's exactly why they didn't do it. Have a look at The Old Republic. That's what they are doing for it and they have basically said it's the most expensive VO for any game ever made. EA are banking on the SW licence and the monthly fee being enough to recoup their investment. It's completely impractical for a SP RPG (especially given that DA probably has more dialogue than TOR).

And that's just the English VO, not to say anything about any other language translation.

[LordKinoda]

You're delusional. You'd need to record 6 separate tracks for every PC line in the game. You are potentially talking hundreds of hours of audio.

Neither of you seem to be understanding me. I said BW wouldn't, and shouldn't, do the voice work. That part could be left to the mod community to do. This way tons of variations could be made for the races and genders.



They could whip up the technical aspects of the mod fairly quickly I think. Camera angles, lip syncing, and facial animations. NOTHING ELSE.



I'm aware of why they chose not add voiced dialog, because yes it's pretty huge to have a bunch of voice actors come in and record dialog, but I still think it was a mistake. At the very least they could of added 1 male, 1 female. Each race and gender doesen't seriously NEED their own unique voice. At least that way the work would of already been done for people to just add their own sound files.



So am I still delusional to think that BW could handle the technical aspects of a mod like this ? A fairly knowledgable mod team could handle it if they wanted to, why the hell couldn't BW ?

[xfallingstar]

I agree with LordKinoda. They didn't have to add the option of the 6 different types of female or male voices - BW should've just stuck with one that would cover all the races.



They could do it in Mass Effect 2, and I thought it added a whole lot of fun into the game because at times you literally felt 'in character' so to speak... So main character dialogue would've been so much better in Dragon Age instead of the glued mouth and abstract nodding

[DarthParametric]

I didn't say Bioware couldn't do it. I said they didn't do it because it was completely impractical. It's never going to happen with DA and it won't happen with DA2. Accept it and move on with your life.

Modifié par DarthParametric, 09 juin 2010 - 02:09 .

[-Semper-]

LordKinoda wrote...

A fairly knowledgable mod team could handle it if they wanted to, why the hell couldn't BW ?

then get your team going and voice all the player's choices. wish you good luck with this epic task...

Modifié par -Semper-, 09 juin 2010 - 03:24 .

[LordKinoda]

I didn't say Bioware couldn't do it. I said they didn't do it because it was completely impractical. It's never going to happen with DA and it won't happen with DA2. Accept it and move on with your life.

True enough that BW is unlikely to do anything, but that doesen't stop modders from doing something.

then get your team going and voice all the player's choices. wish you good luck with this epic task

As I said, I know next to nothing about how the toolset works. Was only inquiring if someone else was thinking about doing it, or maybe I could spur somebody with the skills to do it.

And it wouldn't really be that epic, at least as far as I'm guessing.

- Camera angles, lip sync, facial animations. That part should be easy. Hell there's only one guy that did that in that video I linked above.

- Only the voices pose some challenge. And I say 'some' because there are so MANY fans out there, a truly huge selection could be made. How much does a microphone cost ? 100-200 for a really good one no ? Add in a cheap pantyhose breath filter, and viola, instant voice actor. Sure not everybody would be good, but that's the point of there being so many. With hundreds of people feeding in their take on the warden, how could this aspect be super difficult ?

It's not like this can't be done. The proof is in that video.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 10 juin 2010 - 03:11 .

[DarthParametric]

LordKinoda wrote...

I know next to nothing about how the toolset works.

That's obvious. Before you make outlandish claims about how easy something is, perhaps you should do some research. What you are talking about is a mammoth task that is completely impractical. And you need to stop referring to machinima as an example of what you are talking about. It's not representative of anything you are proposing - either the mechanics or the effort involved.

[LordKinoda]

And you need to stop referring to machinima as an example of what you are talking about. It's not representative of anything you are proposing - either the mechanics or the effort involved.

How is it not ? What are the dialogs but small little cutscenes with dialog choice breaks thrown in ?



Please, if you're so knowledgable, and interested (you must be or you wouldn't come back to post here), tell me (or more to the point of actually getting it done, explain it to somebody who can put it to use) exactly what's involved.

What you are talking about is a mammoth task that is completely impractical

Never said I was right, only giving my best guess. Spare me the attitude, I've not the inclination to play internet toughguy with you.

[-Semper-]

LordKinoda wrote...

- Camera angles, lip sync, facial animations. That part should be easy. Hell there's only one guy that did that in that video I linked above. The proof is in that video.

first i think that machnima was produced by more than one people and second, and that's the main part of my statement, to animate 3 minutes of cutscene and to voice 6 sentences isn't like doing it for a whole game

look how long it takes the producer of gilmore npc to get their voice acting finished. that's only because they used a lot more sentences and choices. now think a step further - all the player's choices have to be voiced. and not only voiced by one actor but like 3 to 5 for each gender. don't argument that one voice is enough to satisfy the player because it is by far not enough for a triple a production.

[LordKinoda]

first i think that machnima was produced by more than one people

Indeed. But, there is only 1 animator.

and second, and that's the main part of my statement, to animate 3 minutes of cutscene and to voice 6 sentences isn't like doing it for a whole game

Undoubtably. However, the dialog scenes are far more simple. Even to the casual oberserve (me being one of them). There are only 2 characters interacting for the most part. The warden, and the npc, whoever they may be. They are only standing still, using a few facial expressions, body language, and lip syncing. How is it more complicated than that ? The machinima is short by comparison, but at the same time alot more complicated. More animations and interaction than would be the whole of the entire warden dialog.

now think a step further - all the player's choices have to be voiced. and not only voiced by one actor but like 3 to 5 for each gender.

Not really. 1 of each gender would suffice. But that's irrelevant. Because voice acting has NOTHING to do with this at the moment. The voice acting is something that can be done after the fact. Only the technical aspects need to be completed. The voice acting can be supplied after all of that is done, by the modding community. Don't get hung up on the voices, because there will be plenty of variety by the submissions of others.



Hell there are already voice samples on this site no ? Granted they are not on the scale of the whole warden's dialog, but they damn well could be. It would take a few hours, what 5-10 total ? A few days with hours here and there to edit and choose which lines you like the most, and voila, warden dialog recorded. Obviously some of them will have better quality and acting than others, but that's the point. There will be plenty to choose from should this mod come to be.

don't argument that one voice is enough to satisfy the player because it is by far not enough for a triple a production.

I can't agree. Had BioWare added 1 female, 1 male, alot of people would been plenty happy (sure there would of been plenty of whiners, but when are there not ?). For the most part people were completely satisfied with Mass Effect no ? Who's to say all dwarves need to sound like gruff drunkards, or all elves need to sound effeminate or ethereal ? But this is beside the point and in the end irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[LordKinoda]

Still interested to know if somebody with the skill is even thinking about doing this for DAO. Wouldn't it be easier now since you can use how they did Hawke's voice files and placements as a template ? I'm only assuming now, don't begrudge the guy who knows next to nothing about modding and all the technical details. It just seems like it could be done that way.

Again, somebody only has to handle the "technical" parts of the mod. Meaning the camera angles to show the Wardens face while they speak, and lip-syncing(which is basically done automatically no ?).

DO NOT mention anything about recording voice files because that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. If it's necessary to have a voice to test the process to get it right there is always that robo voice thing with the toolset.

[FollowTheGourd]

LordKinoda wrote...

Still interested to know if somebody with the skill is even thinking about doing this for DAO. Wouldn't it be easier now since you can use how they did Hawke's voice files and placements as a template ? I'm only assuming now, don't begrudge the guy who knows next to nothing about modding and all the technical details. It just seems like it could be done that way.

Again, somebody only has to handle the "technical" parts of the mod. Meaning the camera angles to show the Wardens face while they speak, and lip-syncing(which is basically done automatically no ?).

DO NOT mention anything about recording voice files because that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. If it's necessary to have a voice to test the process to get it right there is always that robo voice thing with the toolset.

The Leliana's Song DLC proved it's already possible - searching on that may yield the specifics (I vaguely recall it might have been Craig Graff who detailed some of it, even then it's probably not that hard with a fixed character.)

The "only" part is somebody would have to create their module that way. That's more of a design than technical decision IMO. And I will mention recording voice files - that's a big enough consideration as already mentioned; nobody wants to listen to Microsoft Sam if they don't have to.

Nobody starts off knowing everything, so I'd say if you want it that badly after all this time, you might try to get the ball rolling yourself.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 21 avril 2011 - 03:48 .

[Odakage]

I hate start such a long dead topic up again, but I would lend my writing, directing and voice abilities and my time to a project to make a voiced Warden like Hawke in DA2, for free even.