321 réponses à ce sujet

[Tinxa]

I don't understand why some think that a DA anime will somehow influence the next DA game? That ingame characters will somehow suddenly look like anime or whatever...

The anime might not even be about Grey Wardens at all, they could just be telling their own story in DA world. If anime is not your thing then fine, you won't watch it, but it's not all doom and gloom, we'll still get our DA2 the way Bioware envisioned it

[Sigma Tauri]

Leon Evelake wrote...
But what's wrong with monster and ergo proxy? Those are two of the best series made in the last five years.

Nothing wrong with those two. I'm simply stating my falling out of my anime interest. Because you stated they're the best, you get the picture of how severe it is. I know they're that good, but I have to force myself to finish the series from start to finish. 

Still, I think highly of Satoshi Kon, Jin-Roh, Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, RahXephon, Twelve Kingdoms, Last Exile, Sutepri, etc. But, those are shows I watched at the height of my interest, so I remember them fondly. Now, I can't be bothered with new ones, and to be honest I don't know what happened. I still have respect for anime, but I can't pursue the interest as I used to. I'll finish Twelve Kingdoms someday, but with the occasional Miyazaki, I'm done with anime overall.

[traversc]

Feraele wrote...
I read the WHOLE thread thank you very
much...as for prejudice...I am entitled to my opinion as long as it
doesn't hurt others.   Nowhere in my statements did I say anything
personal directed toward anyone.

I realize that you are all "gung-ho" about anime,   but some of us aren't..and thats perfectly alright too. 

1) You couldn't possibly have read the thread and say the things you did without being a complete troll. 
2) Dictionary is your friend. 

Prejudice - an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

3) Yes, you are entitled to your opinion EVEN IF it hurts people.  It still doesn't change the fact that your argument was complete crap based on untenable generalizations.  Note how these two statements are not incongruous. 

Feraele wrote...
I am voicing my opinion and it seems a few of you here are attempting to either tell me I don't know what I like and don't like, or that my opinion is invalid, or that I should change my opinion.

No dude, we are telling you that your opinion is ignorant.  You are perfectly within your right to be ignorant though. 

Modifié par traversc, 15 juin 2010 - 03:00 .

[Dubidox]

I don't get the need some feel to either attack anime or attack those who state that they don't like it. Whether it's an informed opinion or an ignorant one why bother attacking the person? Fanaticism just reeks of insecurity. To put it another way: I doubt the creators of any of the great animes listed in the thread cares one whit about what someone says on the internets about their medium.

Just out of curiosity, how is "Anime" a medium? I mean I thought things like Film, Animation, Music, or Literature were mediums. Isn't "Anime" a subgroup of the medium "Animation"? Not a medium in itself?

Anyways, my exposure to Anime has not been that extensive, but I have seen some that I thought were good. Generally the stuff that lacks a lot of the stereotypes that many of the "dissenters" have said they hate. Here's to hoping that they go for a more "realist" art style that stays true to the overall tone of DAO. I'll wait till I can see some substantial trailers before I decide to buy it or bemoan the fate of one of my favourite new IPs.

Modifié par Dubidox, 15 juin 2010 - 03:47 .

[Leon Evelake]

Dubidox wrote...



Just out of curiosity, how is "Anime" a medium? I mean I thought things like Film, Animation, Music, or Literature were mediums. Isn't "Anime" a subgroup of the medium "Animation"? Not a medium in itself?
.

Very true in Japan all animation is considered anime Japanese, American, Korean  all of it.

[traversc]

Dubidox wrote...

I don't get the need some feel to either attack anime or attack those who state that they don't like it. Whether it's an informed opinion or an ignorant one why bother attacking the person? Fanaticism just reeks of insecurity. To put it another way: I doubt the creators of any of the great animes listed in the thread cares one whit about what someone says on the internets about their medium.

The problem is, people continue making childish arguments that seriously make no sense.  I hope you can see how that could ****** people off.  It isn't about having an opinion or liking or not liking anime.  Fanaticism?  About anime?  Not really.  I've actually seen less than a dozen anime series, mostly on recommendations from friends.  The only thing I'm fanatical about is people making top-notch prejudiced and ignorant comments and doing it over and over and over.  (In other words, not fanatical at all.)

Just out of curiosity, how is "Anime" a medium? I mean I thought things like Film, Animation, Music, or Literature were mediums. Isn't "Anime" a subgroup of the medium "Animation"? Not a medium in itself?

To me, it seems like youre arbitrarily setting categorical levels to be media and other levels not.  For example, do you consider books and comics to be different media?  I would, but they are still subsets of "literature."  If there is a word for it, then there is a clear distinction.  The semantical argument is then based on whatever language is available.  E.g., whatever we can categorize: [Anime and western animation] is media, but they are categorically different.  Therefore, they are different media. 

Modifié par traversc, 15 juin 2010 - 05:04 .

[grieferbastard]

Leon Evelake wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

grieferbastard wrote...

....

Or, some people just don't like anime. As though someone not liking a particular art style somehow makes them 'haters' or 'ignorant'. Not every anime fan is a weeaboo. I'm  very familiar with it, and I hate most of it. I'll even say 'hate'. That's a strong term. I'd rather attempt to beat a rabid badger back into its hole with my wedding tackle than watch Oh! My Goddess! There's some good anime. I like the stories of Cowboy Bebop. Mostly though I don't like it.

There's a difference between "I don't like anime" and "Anime is for ****s and weaboos." The former I can respect. I don't watch anime anymore. I can't muster the strength to watch Ergo Proxy or Monster. The latter I'd just tell you to shut up. I don't expect haters to watch 100 hours worth of anime, but be respectful about your opinion or would they kindly shut the hell up. Don't expect to be taken seriously if you're going to see a Miyazaki film or Jin-Roh and fah-lamingly overreact as if it were Inuyasha.

Agreed we were being glib but our insults were intended toward the more extreme posters who refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that anime is something other than "big eyes and weird hair".

But what's wrong with monster and ergo proxy? Those are two of the best series made in the last five years.

Here's the thing though. Someone can watch 30 minutes of anime and decide they think it's all crap. Nothing wrong with that, it's their opinion. I've listened to less than 30 minutes of j-pop and think it's complete crap. I'll never listen to enough to say I've got some broad experience to say I don't like it.

Where you're making a mistake is trying to pretend that someone needs some vast depth of experience to say they hate something. That's just trying to justify thinking that everyone who hates anime is wrong or having a knee-jerk response or what have you. Tell my grandmother she needs to listen to at least 2 hours of quality death metal before she can say for certain she hates it and tell me that's reasonable.

If you like anime that's great. More power to you. Like some hate some, whatever. Trying to pretend that anyone who hates it as a genre is clearly either ignorant or just doesn't realize how kawaii desu it is, well that's your problem not theirs. It's you trying to justify why anyone who doesn't like what you do is wrong.

There are millions, tens of millions, of people who think that the Twilight series is teh uber when it comes to the written word. I think that not only is it crap, but it represents some of the worst writing and literary concepts in recent history. I don't have to justify my opinion, nor am I somehow 'prejudiced' against Twilight. I just think it's crap. I'm not required to like it. Or anime. That's not my problem - the only problem it would represent would be someone who specifically wanted the money in my pocket spent on their product.

I hope BioWare makes enough money to keep themselves knee deep in hookers and blow for decades to come. By and large I like their products. A Dragon Age movie? Love the concept. Animated? No problem with that. Anime style? Eh. Maybe. Most likely netflix for me.

Is that my problem for not liking anime as a style or BioWares problem for making their movie that way? How about neither? We'll see when it comes out. If you think that is somehow my fault, then the problem is YOU. Why my not liking something you do makes you defensive is a conversation to have with your therapist.

Modifié par grieferbastard, 15 juin 2010 - 07:28 .

[Zurcior]

grieferbastard wrote...

Leon Evelake wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

grieferbastard wrote...

....

Or, some people just don't like anime. As though someone not liking a particular art style somehow makes them 'haters' or 'ignorant'. Not every anime fan is a weeaboo. I'm  very familiar with it, and I hate most of it. I'll even say 'hate'. That's a strong term. I'd rather attempt to beat a rabid badger back into its hole with my wedding tackle than watch Oh! My Goddess! There's some good anime. I like the stories of Cowboy Bebop. Mostly though I don't like it.

There's a difference between "I don't like anime" and "Anime is for ****s and weaboos." The former I can respect. I don't watch anime anymore. I can't muster the strength to watch Ergo Proxy or Monster. The latter I'd just tell you to shut up. I don't expect haters to watch 100 hours worth of anime, but be respectful about your opinion or would they kindly shut the hell up. Don't expect to be taken seriously if you're going to see a Miyazaki film or Jin-Roh and fah-lamingly overreact as if it were Inuyasha.

Agreed we were being glib but our insults were intended toward the more extreme posters who refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that anime is something other than "big eyes and weird hair".

But what's wrong with monster and ergo proxy? Those are two of the best series made in the last five years.

Here's the thing though. Someone can watch 30 minutes of anime and decide they think it's all crap. Nothing wrong with that, it's their opinion. I've listened to less than 30 minutes of j-pop and think it's complete crap. I'll never listen to enough to say I've got some broad experience to say I don't like it.

Where you're making a mistake is trying to pretend that someone needs some vast depth of experience to say they hate something. That's just trying to justify thinking that everyone who hates anime is wrong or having a knee-jerk response or what have you. Tell my grandmother she needs to listen to at least 2 hours of quality death metal before she can say for certain she hates it and tell me that's reasonable.

If you like anime that's great. More power to you. Like some hate some, whatever. Trying to pretend that anyone who hates it as a genre is clearly either ignorant or just doesn't realize how kawaii desu it is, well that's your problem not theirs. It's you trying to justify why anyone who doesn't like what you do is wrong.

There are millions, tens of millions, of people who think that the Twilight series is teh uber when it comes to the written word. I think that not only is it crap, but it represents some of the worst writing and literary concepts in recent history. I don't have to justify my opinion, nor am I somehow 'prejudiced' against Twilight. I just think it's crap. I'm not required to like it. Or anime. That's not my problem - the only problem it would represent would be someone who specifically wanted the money in my pocket spent on their product.

I hope BioWare makes enough money to keep themselves knee deep in hookers and blow for decades to come. By and large I like their products. A Dragon Age movie? Love the concept. Animated? No problem with that. Anime style? Eh. Maybe. Most likely netflix for me.

Is that my problem for not liking anime as a style or BioWares problem for making their movie that way? How about neither? We'll see when it comes out. If you think that is somehow my fault, then the problem is YOU. Why my not liking something you do makes you defensive is a conversation to have with your therapist.

Not really. J-pop, metal, and the Twilight books all follow, to an extent of course, a simular pattern that define them as such. I assume most anime haters hate anime, not for the art style, but for the content. To clarify, shows like Pokemon have prejudiced them from anime that has content they may enjoy. I mean, there is a huge difference between Pokemon and Death Note, Yu Gi Oh and Darker than Black, K-On and Elfan Lied, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei and Hiragashi, and School Rumble and Neon Genesis Evangelion.

P.S. I supposed this arguement only applies to those who don't anime for it's content. If they simply don't like the art style, then I guess "to each his own".

P.P.S. Your grandma should listen to some Dethklok. j/k

[Dubidox]

traversc, I just want to stress that the fact that my post came directly after yours is just timing.  Most of my comments weren't made with your posts in mind.

traversc wrote...

The problem is, people continue making childish arguments that seriously make no sense.  I hope you can see how that could ****** people off.  It isn't about having an opinion or liking or not liking anime.  Fanaticism?  About anime?  Not really.  I've actually seen less than a dozen anime series, mostly on recommendations from friends.  The only thing I'm fanatical about is people making top-notch prejudiced and ignorant comments and doing it over and over and over.  (In other words, not fanatical at all.)

No actually I don't really get why anonymous strangers on the internet making childish arguments would ****** a person off enough to inspire some of the vitriol present in some of the posts in this thread.   I can understand posting in response to say your own piece but I guess I've been desensitized to the way people as a whole like to make snap judgements based on minimal data.  Trying to argue with them just seems like wrestling with a pig, you're just going to get muddy and probably not accomplish much.

traversc wrote...
To me, it seems like youre arbitrarily setting categorical levels to be media and other levels not.  For example, do you consider books and comics to be different media?  I would, but they are still subsets of "literature."  If there is a word for it, then there is a clear distinction.  The semantical argument is then based on whatever language is available.  E.g., whatever we can categorize: [Anime and western animation] is media, but they are categorically different.  Therefore, they are different media. 

Actually I think claiming "Anime" and "Western Animation" are two different medias/mediums is more arbitrary than the way I'm categorizing things.

To me, the word "medium" or "media" denotes something about what physical form an art takes.  I see your point about books and comics however, and I'd answer that they are in fact different media: One is purely words with maybe the occasional graphic to aid the imagination whereas in the other the graphics are a necessary part of the work.  To put it another way, in comics/graphic novels the graphics do the job of describing the setting, action and characters and words are used to describe the dialogue, whereas in books it's all done with words.  The two different artforms use different physical means to convey themselves there for they are different media.

I don't see how the differences between Anime and other types of animation make them different mediums though, because in both the showing of a rapid series of drawn pictures conveys the action, setting and characters while an audio track conveys the dialogue.  There may be vast differences in style and detail levels, but they are essentially using the same medium/media are they not?

I'm probably being too literal and general though, when it comes to making arbitrary classifications the art world is king.

Modifié par Dubidox, 15 juin 2010 - 03:47 .

[Leon Evelake]

grieferbastard wrote...

Leon Evelake wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

grieferbastard wrote...

....

Or, some people just don't like anime. As though someone not liking a particular art style somehow makes them 'haters' or 'ignorant'. Not every anime fan is a weeaboo. I'm  very familiar with it, and I hate most of it. I'll even say 'hate'. That's a strong term. I'd rather attempt to beat a rabid badger back into its hole with my wedding tackle than watch Oh! My Goddess! There's some good anime. I like the stories of Cowboy Bebop. Mostly though I don't like it.

There's a difference between "I don't like anime" and "Anime is for ****s and weaboos." The former I can respect. I don't watch anime anymore. I can't muster the strength to watch Ergo Proxy or Monster. The latter I'd just tell you to shut up. I don't expect haters to watch 100 hours worth of anime, but be respectful about your opinion or would they kindly shut the hell up. Don't expect to be taken seriously if you're going to see a Miyazaki film or Jin-Roh and fah-lamingly overreact as if it were Inuyasha.

Agreed we were being glib but our insults were intended toward the more extreme posters who refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that anime is something other than "big eyes and weird hair".

But what's wrong with monster and ergo proxy? Those are two of the best series made in the last five years.

Here's the thing though. Someone can watch 30 minutes of anime and decide they think it's all crap. Nothing wrong with that, it's their opinion. I've listened to less than 30 minutes of j-pop and think it's complete crap. I'll never listen to enough to say I've got some broad experience to say I don't like it.

Where you're making a mistake is trying to pretend that someone needs some vast depth of experience to say they hate something. That's just trying to justify thinking that everyone who hates anime is wrong or having a knee-jerk response or what have you. Tell my grandmother she needs to listen to at least 2 hours of quality death metal before she can say for certain she hates it and tell me that's reasonable.

If you like anime that's great. More power to you. Like some hate some, whatever. Trying to pretend that anyone who hates it as a genre is clearly either ignorant or just doesn't realize how kawaii desu it is, well that's your problem not theirs. It's you trying to justify why anyone who doesn't like what you do is wrong.

There are millions, tens of millions, of people who think that the Twilight series is teh uber when it comes to the written word. I think that not only is it crap, but it represents some of the worst writing and literary concepts in recent history. I don't have to justify my opinion, nor am I somehow 'prejudiced' against Twilight. I just think it's crap. I'm not required to like it. Or anime. That's not my problem - the only problem it would represent would be someone who specifically wanted the money in my pocket spent on their product.

I hope BioWare makes enough money to keep themselves knee deep in hookers and blow for decades to come. By and large I like their products. A Dragon Age movie? Love the concept. Animated? No problem with that. Anime style? Eh. Maybe. Most likely netflix for me.

Is that my problem for not liking anime as a style or BioWares problem for making their movie that way? How about neither? We'll see when it comes out. If you think that is somehow my fault, then the problem is YOU. Why my not liking something you do makes you defensive is a conversation to have with your therapist.

You managed to miss the point entirely.  By you example of watching one 30 min  episode and deciding you hate it all is like deciding you hate all types of movies after watching twilight.  Is twilight an intelligent basis for judging all cinema?  Is reading green eggs and ham enough to judge MacBeth.  No.  But that's the type of judgment of anime you are saying is reasonable for anime.

I never said anybody had a problem for not liking anime, but if you make judgments of entire industries based on misconceptions that sucks and don't expect people to put up with people spouting ignorant stereotypes just because your opinion.

I don't think I ever said people should like anime or that if you don't anime you have a problem, but I said they should not judge all of it based on misconceptions, stereotypes, or a single style and yet you say that's reasonable.  And I am the one who needs therapy?

[cougarmadcat]

Anime is animation.

Animation incorporates a great deal of different styles and mediums including classical (fully drawn), computer, roto-scope, clay, sand, shadow boxes ... a lot of different ways.  The only difference between what is called anime and north american
animation is that anime is created in oriental countries, most
noticeably and well acknowledged in Japan.

So in respect to this particular course of the thread, the simple point is that there is good and bad animation whether it be from Japan, North America or anywhere else.  The main thing is that North American animation got a very bad name in the 60s to early 90s for being mostly "children's shows" and done very cheaply considering that they tended to use lame bases for story lines and sketchy animation with scenes which were used over and over not to mention cells which were washed so many times that the soap scum made them dusty coloured.

Unfortunately, North American animation has not come up with much to be thrilled about until the late 90s in which it started coming up with interesting characters and/or using superheroes (the best being DC).  One of the major influences has been due to the bad stigmatism from such things as Hannah Barbara and such (no not Looney Tunes) and other such productions.

As for Inu Yasha, Pokemon, Sailor Moon, Naruto and others are anime.  They have been chopped to shreds for the North American audience but they are still from Japan.

Also, for anyone who hasn't noticed, Teen Titans (with Cyborg and Changeling) was written in North America and animated in Japan so there is beginning to be crossovers within the last 10 or so years.

The basic difference between Japanese animation and North American animation is that the Japanese too their animation seriously.  It wasn't just "kiddie shows."  Anime was created for all audiences and there are many differences from one series to the other.  There are also quite a few which are extremely similar in quality.

However - one's preferences are their own.  Personally I enjoy both North American and Japanese animation.  It depends on the show if I like it.  Not the genre.

As for what I think of Dragon Age going animated .... ahhhh ... it scares me.  To be honest I don't trust whenever there is a "cartoon" of a game or anything else put out.  It could be reaaaaaaaaaalll bad or extraordinary but either way, even if it starts out really good then it's expected to go downhill in quality by year 2 or 3.

Dragon Age shows a real problematic situation.  Will it be set for older audiences or for children?  If for children then expect it to suck.  If it is for teens and adults it just might have some worthiness built in whether it be done in North America or Japan.

Truthfully, I believe it would work out much better as a movie.

[ElectricWizard]

if this is anime I will not give it the time of day, I ****ING HATE ANIME.



Hence the reason I play WRPGS and not JRPGS, to stay away from the utter **** that Japan produces, yes, I'm looking at you Final Fantasy.



flame me all you like, Anime sucks.

[Indoctrination]

ElectricWizard wrote...

if this is anime I will not give it the time of day, I ****ING HATE ANIME.

Hence the reason I play WRPGS and not JRPGS, to stay away from the utter **** that Japan produces, yes, I'm looking at you Final Fantasy.

flame me all you like, Anime sucks.

Why would anyone flame you for going on a poorly thought out ignorant hate rant? Complaining about things you know absolutely nothing about is a staple post type here on the BioWare boards, so I'll just say that I'm sorry that you are so closed minded.

[Indoctrination]

UPDATE:
www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-08-13/vexille/ping-pong-sori-to-direct-dragon-age-film
www.ea.com/gamescom/cat/bioware-edmonton-chat

- T.O. Entertainment and Oxybot Studio will be handling the production of the movie. Fumihoki Sori will be directing.

- In the recent BioWare Dragon Age 2 chat the subject of the anime movie came up:

[Comment From SDNcNSDNcN: ] Will the Dragon Age anime have some tie ins to DA:2?

Fernando@BIoWare:
@SDNcN: More of a Mike question, but at high level anything with DA
ties fits in somehow into the greater world fiction and timeline -
characters, places and events are 'real'

Mike Laidlaw: Fernando's
right about the Anime. It will have some tie-in to DA2, yes, but I'm
not at liberty to say just how (yet!). I'm really excited to see it
coming together, though. Got some first pass visuals the other day, and
they look fantastic.

[Fullmetal Mania]

Had there been any new info on the Dragon Age anime? Because I for one am looking forward to it.

[Leon Evelake]

ElectricWizard wrote...

if this is anime I will not give it the time of day, I ****ING HATE ANIME.

Hence the reason I play WRPGS and not JRPGS, to stay away from the utter **** that Japan produces, yes, I'm looking at you Final Fantasy.

flame me all you like, Anime sucks.

Not afraid to be an utter fanboy huh? Japan produce some very good rpgs but western audiences just steryotype them.  Kingdom hearts, yakuza, demon souls, final fantasy crisis core, way of the samurai, all great heck final fantasy versus 13 looks incredible.

 And anime has produced works of fiction equal to any other genera, so be content to stay ignorant to some great stories its your loss.

[mousestalker]

I have absolutely no problem with Japanimation. There have been five star movies out of Japan that were animated. What concerns me is my deep fear that this will be the story of Butch Cousland and his merry gang consisting of the wacky witch, the drunk dwarf, the whiny blond guy and the sneaky redhead.

There are exactly two ways I'll ever pay money to see this. First is if it gets rave reviews from critics I trust. Second is if it has a main warden who is not a male human noble. The further the lead gets from those attributes, the more likely it is I'll want to see it. I just don't want to see an animated movie with characters that are stock.

Edited to add: A cute chibi side kick would be lethal to any possible enjoyment I might have. Unless of course Oghren roasts cute chibi Schmooples over an open pit flame for dinner. That would be perfect.

Modifié par mousestalker, 03 février 2011 - 01:43 .

[Indoctrination]

mousestalker wrote...

I have absolutely no problem with Japanimation. There have been five star movies out of Japan that were animated. What concerns me is my deep fear that this will be the story of Butch Cousland and his merry gang consisting of the wacky witch, the drunk dwarf, the whiny blond guy and the sneaky redhead.

There are exactly two ways I'll ever pay money to see this. First is if it gets rave reviews from critics I trust. Second is if it has a main warden who is not a male human noble. The further the lead gets from those attributes, the more likely it is I'll want to see it. I just don't want to see an animated movie with characters that are stock.

Edited to add: A cute chibi side kick would be lethal to any possible enjoyment I might have. Unless of course Oghren roasts cute chibi Schmooples over an open pit flame for dinner. That would be perfect.

The problem with your concerns is that they're baseless. Your concerns stem from stereotypes which have been proven in this topic to be false. Again, I ask you guys to watch something like Sword of the Stranger before you claim that bad stereotypes are the inevitable.

[Elsariel]

ElectricWizard wrote...

if this is anime I will not give it the time of day, I ****ING HATE ANIME.

Hence the reason I play WRPGS and not JRPGS, to stay away from the utter **** that Japan produces, yes, I'm looking at you Final Fantasy.

flame me all you like, Anime sucks.

No seriously.  Tell us how you really feel. 


On topic, I love anime but only if it's done right.  Dragon Age anime is something I'm very wary of.  There is much potential for it to be.... too japanese and less western oriented.  However, I'm not dismissing the idea out of hand.  I think it will be interesting to see how it progresses.  Personally, if it's going to be anime-style, I'd prefer it to be gritty and realistic.  No sweat drops, no cutesy anime faces (), no chibi-stuff..... I'd want lots of drama, romance, and sarcasm.  Thanks!

[Leon Evelake]

Its like no one has seen the japanese animated Gotham Knight, halo legends, or the new iron man animated series.