321 réponses à ce sujet

[Si-Shen]

I am rather excited about this, concidering I just got back a couple weeks ago from an Anime con and overall I find FUNimation is a great company.

As for those suggesting a western style of animation might be better, I might agree with you, if this were back in the early to mid 90's. MOST of what I see now is either cheesy crap or really BAD attempts at making an american-anime copy style. For the worries about over sized weapons and such, I think your pool of anime is a tad bit small and needs to expand lol, have faith in them.

[OldMan91]

As for those suggesting a western style of animation might be better, I might agree with you, if this were back in the early to mid 90's. MOST of what I see now is either cheesy crap or really BAD attempts at making an american-anime copy style. For the worries about over sized weapons and such, I think your pool of anime is a tad bit small and needs to expand lol, have faith in them.

I'm Spanish. My country was one of the first few which imported a great load of manga and anime in the "West". I have seen and read a lot of manga and anime during my teenage years, ranging from the most childish to the most adult oriented stuff, different genres too.
Now it seems like the entire world is embracing manga, and I am getting sick and tired of manga at this stage. There are plenty of Western animation studios which do great work. I have read comics written and drawn by Spanish artists which would put even the most serious and gritty mangas to shame. The themes that most manga and anime deal with are very much japanese-centric. Many "mature" themes that you will find deal with incredibly vague and alien concepts that you would only understand if you had been raised in Japan.

If there is one anime that I watched recently and I have thoroughly enjoyed, it was Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, because it deal with issues that other anime or manga don't deal with, such as racial or class struggle, the nature of rebellion, the "ends justifying the means" and other much more politically modern themes that I can relate to (and it even makes fun of some of the traditional elements in anime, such as the dramatic body gestures seen in most anime).

Modifié par OldMan91, 07 juin 2010 - 10:19 .

[Zhijn]

DA anime. *depressing laugh*

Why must games go anime lately? Never understood the fascination of anime with the 2-3 seconds freeze per scene when something about to happen,  then the soapy stars with big eyes going "NO!". Should be interesting to see how combat will play out with DA in an anime, a long sword swing with a uber sound to it and some flashy lightingbolts with guy having a big grin on his face for half the scene!?. Heh!.

Eh gues you can say im skeptical. =p

[traversc]

For those hating on anime, I sense some strong ethnocentrism. Check your egos at the door please. Don't judge anime by what you see on Cartoon Network. Besides horrible dubbing, (which itself is enough to ruin), they also "dumb it down" for the American audiene.



Keep an open mind. There are more than enough series for every type of genre that you might be interested in - anime is just a medium. As someone mentioned, "Claymore" and "Basilisk" are two amazing "dark" animes; the storytelling rivals Bioware. I strongly recommend those two series for those who feel that anime is too shallow and "cute."



Not that I don't have my doubts as well, but something like this IS possible. Claymore of course being the perfect example, keeping the medieval flavor.



As far as those saying "why not use western animation" - well it's obvious, isn't it? Western animation hasn't been able to compete with anime visual effects for at least two decades (not including CGI stuff, of course). The difference is between something like "The Simpsons" and Miyazaki Hayao of Princess Mononoke fame. There is simply no comparison. Western animation survives by not even trying to compete on those terms. Note the non-existence of any prominent western "action" cartoons. The sucessors of Marvel and DC are no more.

[Demx]

If Luci Christian or Johnny Bosch play any of the main characters, I don't want to even acknowledge its existence.

[traversc]

Now it seems like the entire world is embracing manga, and I am getting
sick and tired of manga at this stage. There are plenty of Western
animation studios which do great work. I have read comics written and
drawn by Spanish artists which would put even the most serious and
gritty mangas to shame.

You are right that there are plenty of western comics that are absolutely beautiful.  But we are talking about anime and "animated" cartoons here, and that' simply a different beast. 

The themes that most manga and anime deal with
are very much japanese-centric. Many "mature" themes that you will find
deal with incredibly vague and alien concepts that you would only
understand if you had been raised in Japan. If there is one
anime that I watched recently and I have thoroughly enjoyed, it was Code
Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, because it deal with issues that other
anime or manga don't deal with, such as racial or class struggle, the
nature of rebellion, the "ends justifying the means" and other much more
politically modern themes that I can relate to (and it even makes fun
of some of the traditional elements in anime, such as the dramatic body
gestures seen in most anime).

Of course, that's to be expected that animes deal with eastern themes, given that anime is made in Japan.  However, there are hundreds, if not thousands of anime/manga that are entirely "western".  Secondly, besides setting, I don't really know what you mean by saying that japanese concepts are "incredibly vague and alien".  I haven't found any concept in anime or manga that is not easily understood by a simple explanation.  I really think you are exaggerating here.  Could you provide an example?

[Demx]

Just wondering when was the last time a western company did cartoon, that wasn't meant for children up to the age of 12?

[Indoctrination]

Zhijn wrote...

DA anime. *depressing laugh*

Why must games go anime lately? Never understood the fascination of anime with the 2-3 seconds freeze per scene when something about to happen,  then the soapy stars with big eyes going "NO!". Should be interesting to see how combat will play out with DA in an anime, a long sword swing with a uber sound to it and some flashy lightingbolts with guy having a big grin on his face for half the scene!?. Heh!.

Eh gues you can say im skeptical. =p

You can make ignorant generalizations about anything. Watch!

What's that? You guys want a western DA cartoon? I guess that means you want some guy in tights running around with a half dressed teenage boy. And of course every villain they fight will be a gimmick. One bad guy shoots ice out his ears, and another shoots fire out his rear end. Be in suspense as they have a large amount of namless goons who go down in one hit to help hinder our circus dressed heroes! At the end of the day, we'll go back to believing that competent people can be fooled by their disguises, because we don't care if the writers respect our intelligence.

Was that a fair summary of western cartoons? No, of course not. But it sure was fun typing that up. It's always fun to invent excuses to generalize and dismiss things you're not interested in, isn't it?



Bonus:

Modifié par Indoctrination, 07 juin 2010 - 11:33 .

[maxernst]

If they're going to go animated, I'd prefer to see them stick to the visual style of the game. The examples shown from Claymore and Basilisk, while esthetically interesting, seem far more stylized and expressionistic. I gather there are some more naturalistic looking anime works like this one



http://en.wikipedia..../Monster_(manga)



But they seem to be pretty atypical. As far as western animation, well...FUNimation is actually an American company anyway, even if they ape Japanese styles. Richard Linklater has done a couple of interesting animated (rotoscoped) works (Waking Life and A Scanner Darkly). It's not the sort of project that would be likely to interest him, but to suggest all Western animation is like the Simpsons is just as silly as claiming all Japanese animation is like Pokemon.

[maxernst]

Siradix wrote...

Just wondering when was the last time a western company did cartoon, that wasn't meant for children up to the age of 12?

Possibly 2006.  This was definitely not aimed at children, although I don't know if you'd call it a "cartoon"

http://en.wikipedia....er_Darkly_(film)

[TheMadCat]

Why? I mean seriously, why? What's the point, what's the benefit?

[Demx]

maxernst wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Just wondering when was the last time a western company did cartoon, that wasn't meant for children up to the age of 12?

Possibly 2006.  This was definitely not aimed at children, although I don't know if you'd call it a "cartoon"

http://en.wikipedia....er_Darkly_(film)

That's hardly similar considering it is purely rotoscoped.

[OldMan91]

You are right that there are plenty of western comics that are absolutely beautiful. But we are talking about anime and "animated" cartoons here, and that' simply a different beast.

There are also several Western animated movies which are great, including the ones which are made and shown within only in certain European countries. For example Asterix cartoon films are very well animated or Pocoyo for pre-school kids is very good and has won several awards for its presentation. Here, check El Cid: The Legend and watch the quality of the animation or Aeon Flux which is more adult oriented or Batman: The Animated Series also with more mature themes. Persepolis is also a very interesting film http://www.sonypictu...ics/persepolis/

Secondly, besides setting, I don't really know what you mean by saying that japanese concepts are "incredibly vague and alien". I haven't found any concept in anime or manga that is not easily understood by a simple explanation. I really think you are exaggerating here. Could you provide an example?

I'll give you a few examples of Japanese concepts once I find a few books I've got somewhere in the bookcase. My house is a mess right now, since i'm moving so i'll get back to this as soon as possible.

Modifié par OldMan91, 08 juin 2010 - 12:31 .

[traversc]

maxernst wrote...
but to suggest all Western animation is like the Simpsons is just as silly as claiming all Japanese animation is like Pokemon.

Exactly. 

The Simpsons epitomizes western animation.  Simple, quick and dirty, much like Family Guy, Futurama, American Dad, etc, etc.  Pokemon epitomizes Japanese animation, and let's not kid ourselves, Pokemon is visually appealing.  Complaining about the content is a seperate issue; it is a children's show, much like one could complain about Barney or Teletubbies. 

[ShadowCatJen]

From what I'm reading into it they're going to be doing co-production similar to what was done for Batman: Gotham Knight and AniMATRIX. I wouldn't be so quick to count all this out as it will simply be American executive producers using a Japanese animation house. Both Batman: GK and AniMATRIX did moderately well and the fanbases for both Batman and The Matrix were satisfied with the results (they were more happy with AniMATRIX then they were the last two Matrix movies ).



What I find really funny right now is that over on the anime forums people are balking about Dragon Age being a game they're not into and don't see a reason to make an anime out of it while over here people are balking about Anime in general. To each their own, I suppose.

[traversc]

OldMan91 wrote...
There are also several Western animated movies which are great, including the ones which are made and shown within only in certain European countries. For example Asterix cartoon films are very well animated or Pocoyo for pre-school kids is very good and has won several awards for its presentation. Here, check El Cid: The Legend and watch the quality of the animation or Aeon Flux which is more adult oriented or Batman: The Animated Series also with more mature themes. Persepolis is also a very interesting film http://www.sonypictu...ics/persepolis/

I know you're going to disagree, but I think your post just reinforces my argument. The point being made is about visual appeal.  I really don't understand how, after watching Code Geass, you can believe that any of these cartoons hold a candle to it. 
El Cid, from what I can tell, is surprisingly beautiful, but the stylistics still show immaturity.  The facial expressions are drawn to be realistic, but still, they are over-exaggerated and the attempt at realism is replaced by overly complex and distracting features that are just clumsly.  Furtermore, by the time El Cid came out, Princess Mononoke had been out for 6 years.  By the time Aeon Flux came out on MTV, Dragon Ball had already been
playing for four years. In each case, western animation is beaten by its japanese contemporary. 

Modifié par traversc, 08 juin 2010 - 12:52 .

[Rolenka]

Duncan. Over 9,000.

[ShadowCatJen]

... long as it's better than that God awful Dragonlance animated movie distributed and butchered by Paramount I'll take it.

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

ok guys



instead of doing a anime Dragon Age, have we thought - stop me if this seems crazy - have we thought about *not* doing an anime dragon age? hrrm?

[searanox]

Uh.



Yeah okay.

[Zhijn]

Indoctrination wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

DA anime. *depressing laugh*

Why must games go anime lately? Never understood the fascination of anime with the 2-3 seconds freeze per scene when something about to happen,  then the soapy stars with big eyes going "NO!". Should be interesting to see how combat will play out with DA in an anime, a long sword swing with a uber sound to it and some flashy lightingbolts with guy having a big grin on his face for half the scene!?. Heh!.

Eh gues you can say im skeptical. =p

You can make ignorant generalizations about anything. Watch!

What's that? You guys want a western DA cartoon? I guess that means you want some guy in tights running around with a half dressed teenage boy. And of course every villain they fight will be a gimmick. One bad guy shoots ice out his ears, and another shoots fire out his rear end. Be in suspense as they have a large amount of namless goons who go down in one hit to help hinder our circus dressed heroes! At the end of the day, we'll go back to believing that competent people can be fooled by their disguises, because we don't care if the writers respect our intelligence.

Was that a fair summary of western cartoons? No, of course not. But it sure was fun typing that up. It's always fun to invent excuses to generalize and dismiss things you're not interested in, isn't it?

*snip*

You just did what you think i did. Oh the ironey.

And why are you showing a cover of a hmm im guessing 40's or 60's comic?.

[taine]

traversc wrote...

maxernst wrote...
but to suggest all Western animation is like the Simpsons is just as silly as claiming all Japanese animation is like Pokemon.

Exactly. 

The Simpsons epitomizes western animation.  Simple, quick and dirty, much like Family Guy, Futurama, American Dad, etc, etc.  Pokemon epitomizes Japanese animation, and let's not kid ourselves, Pokemon is visually appealing.  Complaining about the content is a seperate issue; it is a children's show, much like one could complain about Barney or Teletubbies. 

Pokemon does not in any way shape or form epitomize Japanese animation. Oh, and all the western animations you mentioned are done in Korea 

[Indoctrination]

Zhijn wrote...

Indoctrination wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

DA anime. *depressing laugh*

Why must games go anime lately? Never understood the fascination of anime with the 2-3 seconds freeze per scene when something about to happen,  then the soapy stars with big eyes going "NO!". Should be interesting to see how combat will play out with DA in an anime, a long sword swing with a uber sound to it and some flashy lightingbolts with guy having a big grin on his face for half the scene!?. Heh!.

Eh gues you can say im skeptical. =p

You can make ignorant generalizations about anything. Watch!

What's that? You guys want a western DA cartoon? I guess that means you want some guy in tights running around with a half dressed teenage boy. And of course every villain they fight will be a gimmick. One bad guy shoots ice out his ears, and another shoots fire out his rear end. Be in suspense as they have a large amount of namless goons who go down in one hit to help hinder our circus dressed heroes! At the end of the day, we'll go back to believing that competent people can be fooled by their disguises, because we don't care if the writers respect our intelligence.

Was that a fair summary of western cartoons? No, of course not. But it sure was fun typing that up. It's always fun to invent excuses to generalize and dismiss things you're not interested in, isn't it?

*snip*

You just did what you think i did. Oh the ironey.

And why are you showing a cover of a hmm im guessing 40's or 60's comic?.

I did no such thing. My entire point is that generalizations like the one I came up with are ridiculous. If you had read my post in its entitrety you would have seen that. The cover was a bonus, for fun.

[Vicious]

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Yechh

[VaeVictus X]

Really? I want more of the lower one....she's cute.