321 réponses à ce sujet

[Indoctrination]

OldMan91 wrote...

I've already mentioned some Western series/movies in a previous post, you can check the companies behind them.

That's not what I asked you. You're dodging the question now. You said that you are sure that there are comapnies in the U.S. who are eager to make expensive movies about video games. Name them for us.

Let's be honest here. You can't name any studios that you say are eager to pay for expensive movies about video games, can you?

I didn't say "marketing data" or point to any specific market. I said "if markets are anything to go by", as in if the principle of the free market is correct, then there must be someone available to take up the job.

I suggest you stop getting economics lessons from Glenn Beck. If that was true, then nothing would ever go out of business.

I don't see why you're so hostile about my opinion, but okay.

Because your opinion is based on falsehoods, generalizations, unwarranted biases, and misinformation.

[tmp7704]

OldMan91 wrote...

If I see any character with ridiculous hair, oversized weapons and "transformation" scenes in this movie-to-be, I am going to be really upset.

Well, to be fair, that would be actually staying true to DA as we already know it.

[David Gaider]

Siradix wrote...
I hate to tell you this Gaider, but anime is a very small niche in America. It's probably even smaller in Europe. Then you also have to deal with subgroups within the anime community. The loudest of these groups are the people who won't touch any anime that didn't start in Japan. The idea that American company is involved with the process, automatically turns them off. You will also loose another group of people if you don't have a Japanese audio track, with English subtitles. Of course there are those who hate the offical subtitles, and strictly like fansubs. Oh, and we can't forget the people who like to stream anime for free and never pay for it.

And? What's your point? You're worried that it won't be a smashing commercial success? If so, then I suppose BioWare should thank you for being so concerned for our bottom line.

TheMadCat wrote...
I'm a bit curious about how you really feel about this considering not to long ago in an interview you essentially stated that the reason you took on the added burden of writing the novels was because you didn't feel comfortable with someone touching your baby.

It's easier when there's already a bunch of established lore to work from. People don't need to guess now, which they would have back when the books were first written. There are games and books and other material for people to draw inspiration from, whereas once upon a time there would have only been design docs and maybe some screenshots.

Since I highly doubt they went to your and asked for approval fron my place on the outside it seems like they just snatched your baby from your arms and ran off with it. I'm not trying to provoke anything here, I'm just really curious about how you feel about having no real input or power on major project going on in the universe you essentially created and cherish.

Who said I have no input?

As with any IP, it's within our power to determine how we want it to be represented by third parties. What we put out there may not be everyone's cup of tea-- but then it doesn't have to be. Get over yourselves, people.

And most of us here don't want to see this thing fail so we can gloat on the boards saying "we're right". Reality is if it's done bad it'll have a negative impact on BioWare and the Dragon Age universes image. We're not sinisterly rubbing our hands to together and twirling our mustaches going off with an evil laugh, we don't want to see the image of your company and universe tarnished for something that really didn't need to come about and ultimately makes no sense. History says these type of products which stem from video games are doomed to an abysmal failure, there is a chance it could be good, but odds are quite against it.

Anything's possible. So long as the games we make are good, that's our core concern. I don't get that most people here are rooting for our success so much as having a knee-jerk possessive reaction regarding our vision for our own IP-- it strikes me that many people are concerned not about whether a movie is an unneeded extra but rather whose unneeded extra it should be. Sounds a little like the DLC debate, sometimes.

But if you are indeed rooting for our success-- super, thank you. We're looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Modifié par David Gaider, 08 juin 2010 - 06:51 .

[OldMan91]

That's not what I asked you. You're dodging the question now. You said that you are sure that there are comapnies in the U.S. who are eager to make expensive movies about video games. Name them for us.

I'm not dodging anything. I've told you the companies behind the mentioned series/movies are a few examples. If you don't want to look them up, that's not my problem. And I did not say "companies in the US". Notice I never specified any particular country. There is a reason for that.

I suggest you stop getting economics lessons from Glenn Beck. If that was true, then nothing would ever go out of business.

Which is why I said, "IF markets are anything to go by...", "IF the principle of the free market is correct"... I suggest you read more carefully the wording I use.

Because your opinion is based on falsehoods, generalizations, unwarranted biases, and misinformation.

Good for you.

[darkshadow136]

This is a great idea as long as they don't translate it into a japanese animie movie. If they make it along the line of the DAO Cgi promo trailer it will be a great sucess, and use all the voices from the original cast of DAO, anything short of that will be a failure in my opinion.

[Indoctrination]

OldMan91 wrote...

I'm not dodging anything. I've told you the companies behind the mentioned series/movies are a few examples. If you don't want to look them up, that's not my problem. And I did not say "companies in the US". Notice I never specified any particular country. There is a reason for that.

First of all, you didn't list any companies. Secondly, yes you are dodging the question. You said that you were sure there are companies who would be willing to make expensive movies and I simply asked you to prove it. You can't prove it, so now you're running bad damage control.

Which is why I said, "IF markets are anything to go by...", "IF the principle of the free market is correct"... I suggest you read more carefully the wording I use.

So now you're trying to make it look like your argument there is based on assumptions. Not exactly helping your case here.

Good for you.

Excellent come back. You sure addressed what I said there. Wait, you didn't. But that's okay. Your posts are just attempts to justify your previous posts to me now anyway.

[Demx]

Indoctrination wrote...

Siradix wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I find it very interesting, if not surprising, how very narrow some fans' perceptions are regarding what Dragon Age could or should be-- as if the audience for Dragon Age didn't literally encompass millions of people and they all enjoyed it for one thing and one thing only.
I suppose it's easier that way. If something like this anime turns out to be good, you get to be pleasantly surprised. If it's bad, you get to declare that you were right all along. And if you refuse to even admit the possibility that it might be good or that someone might like it who isn't you, you get to rage on the forums and decry the decline of all that is good in the world.

Win/Win/Win situation there, I guess.

I hate to tell you this Gaider, but anime is a very small niche in America. It's probably even smaller in Europe. Then you also have to deal with subgroups within the anime community. The loudest of these groups are the people who won't touch any anime that didn't start in Japan. The idea that American company is involved with the process, automatically turns them off. You will also loose another group of people if you don't have a Japanese audio track, with English subtitles. Of course there are those who hate the offical subtitles, and strictly like fansubs. Oh, and we can't forget the people who like to stream anime for free and never pay for it.

You should probably be made aware that this isn't the first anime movie to come from the west. Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust was funded by Urban Vision (which is based in Los Angelas), it premiered in the U.S. before Japan, it was originally released in English only, and it still did pretty well. It has a well deserved fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes, because it was a good movie. I don't remember hearing anyone dismiss it because it didn't have Japanese audio or because it was an anime movie.

Did I say that it was the first? You are also ignoring the fact that I am talking about the anime community in general. I said the loudest group will be the ones who won't touch any anime that didn't start in Japan. Vampire Hunter D started in Japan as a novel. The fact that Dragon Age originated in America, will not appeal to them. Plus you are getting your information Rotten Tomatoes, there people actually have to do an honest review of the person's work.

[Indoctrination]

Siradix wrote...

Did I say that it was the first? You are also ignoring the fact that I am talking about the anime community in general. I said the loudest group will be the ones who won't touch any anime that didn't start in Japan. Vampire Hunter D started in Japan as a novel. The fact that Dragon Age originated in America, will not appeal to them. Plus you are getting your information Rotten Tomatoes, there people actually have to do an honest review of the person's work.

Did I say you said it was the first? No. I was simply pointing out that anime has come out of the west before, and yet the sky remains above us and ground remains below us. No disasters of any kind came out of that. Secondly, your generalizations of anime fans are just that generalizations. Sub-only anime in the U.S. fails badly. Bandai put out Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann out in Japanese only with subtitles and it failed miserably in North America. They then re-released it with the dub. Furthermore, if it's impossible to market western anime to anime fans then why has FUNimation created a branch dedicated specifically to just that?

[TheMadCat]

Who said I have no input?

Eh? You did...

Directly involved-- as in writing the story? No, I'm not. I'm not
involved beyond helping them with the lore.

I took that as they'll come to you if they have questions about the lore, but that's the extent of your involvement. Did  I misinterpret that?

Thanks for answering though, you've satisfied my curiosity.

[Demx]

David Gaider wrote...

And? What's your point? You're worried that it won't be a smashing commercial success? If so, then I suppose BioWare should thank you for being so concerned for our bottom line.

Well, yes I am worried that it won't be a success. I don't want a single movie to be a defining point of the entire series.

[tmp7704]

Siradix wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

And? What's your point? You're worried that it won't be a smashing commercial success? If so, then I suppose BioWare should thank you for being so concerned for our bottom line.

Well, yes I am worried that it won't be a success. I don't want a single movie to be a defining point of the entire series.

Considering the idea was apparently coined by company which has been dealing with the subject for over 15 years by now, perhaps, just perhaps they know their market well enough to consider it a reasonable venture?

[k9medusa]

I agree BW knows stories and know them well they do, but video games and movies are two different media.... Both have they very different holes to aviold....

[Demx]

Indoctrination wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Did I say that it was the first? You are also ignoring the fact that I am talking about the anime community in general. I said the loudest group will be the ones who won't touch any anime that didn't start in Japan. Vampire Hunter D started in Japan as a novel. The fact that Dragon Age originated in America, will not appeal to them. Plus you are getting your information Rotten Tomatoes, there people actually have to do an honest review of the person's work.

Did I say you said it was the first? No. I was simply pointing out that anime has come out of the west before, and yet the sky remains above us and ground remains below us. No disasters of any kind came out of that. Secondly, your generalizations of anime fans are just that generalizations. Sub-only anime in the U.S. fails badly. Bandai put out Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann out in Japanese only with subtitles and it failed miserably in North America. They then re-released it with the dub. Furthermore, if it's impossible to market western anime to anime fans then why has FUNimation created a branch dedicated specifically to just that?

First off, yes you did by stating that it's not the first anime made in the west. Second, the anime industry in general is doing badly in the US. Third, it was a licensing issue with ADV that caused Bandi to release it out on the US market as a sub. Bandi's main concern was trying to get it in dub format from the beginning, not to release a strictly sub-version. Fourth, Funimation is outsourcing the project to a company in Japan. Fifth, I never said it was impossible.

[Demx]

tmp7704 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

And? What's your point? You're worried that it won't be a smashing commercial success? If so, then I suppose BioWare should thank you for being so concerned for our bottom line.

Well, yes I am worried that it won't be a success. I don't want a single movie to be a defining point of the entire series.

Considering the idea was apparently coined by company which has been dealing with the subject for over 15 years by now, perhaps, just perhaps they know their market well enough to consider it a reasonable venture?

Which subject? The subject of putting Dragon Age in the movies? 

[Indoctrination]

Siradix wrote...

First off, yes you did by stating that it's not the first anime made in the west.

No, I did not. You are attempting to re-write the context of my posts.

Second, the anime industry in general is doing badly in the US.

FUNimation isn't. They're still doing fine.

Third, it was a licensing issue with ADV that caused Bandi to release it out on the US market as a sub. Bandi's main concern was trying to get it in dub format from the beginning, not to release a strictly sub-version.

Uh, that's nice? That didn't exactly address the point I was making there. The dual-audio release of TTGL outsold the sub only release. Trying to portray the anime fanbase as being dominated by loud otakus who turn their noses up at everything not pure Japanese is just plain dishonest.

Fourth, Funimation is outsourcing the project to a company in Japan. Fifth, I never said it was impossible.

No kidding, they're outsourcing it? You do realize that Asia is a popular place to animate U.S. cartoons right? Even cartoons like The Simpsons are animated in South Korea. There's absolutely nothing odd or abnormal about outsourcing an animation project to Asia. American companies have been doing that for a very, very long time.

Modifié par Indoctrination, 08 juin 2010 - 07:34 .

[tmp7704]

Siradix wrote...

Which subject? The subject of putting Dragon Age in the movies? 

The subject of making money from supplying anime to western viewers. Probably gives them some insight into actual numbers involved and what sort of productions they find appealing. So if they think a movie based on DA out of all things is worth investing money into... well.

[Demx]

No, I did not. You are attempting to re-write the context of my posts.

I know you're willing to argue back and forth on this, but I'm not and I did not re-write any context of your post.

FUNimation isn't. They're still doing fine.

Then why is Navarre looking to sell it?

Uh, that's nice? That didn't exactly address the point I was making there. The dual-audio release of TTGL outsold the sub only release. Trying to portray the anime fanbase as being dominated by loud otakus who turn their noses up at everything not pure Japanese is just plain dishonest.

Sure, sure.

No kidding, they're outsourcing it? You do realize that Asia is a popular place to animate U.S. cartoons right? Even cartoons like The Simpsons are animated in South Korea. There's absolutely nothing odd or abnormal about outsourcing an animation project to Asia. American companies have been doing that for a very, very long time.

Your sarcasm is duly noted.

[bzombo]

David Gaider wrote...

Siradix wrote...
I hate to tell you this Gaider, but anime is a very small niche in America. It's probably even smaller in Europe. Then you also have to deal with subgroups within the anime community. The loudest of these groups are the people who won't touch any anime that didn't start in Japan. The idea that American company is involved with the process, automatically turns them off. You will also loose another group of people if you don't have a Japanese audio track, with English subtitles. Of course there are those who hate the offical subtitles, and strictly like fansubs. Oh, and we can't forget the people who like to stream anime for free and never pay for it.

And? What's your point? You're worried that it won't be a smashing commercial success? If so, then I suppose BioWare should thank you for being so concerned for our bottom line.

TheMadCat wrote...
I'm a bit curious about how you really feel about this considering not to long ago in an interview you essentially stated that the reason you took on the added burden of writing the novels was because you didn't feel comfortable with someone touching your baby.

It's easier when there's already a bunch of established lore to work from. People don't need to guess now, which they would have back when the books were first written. There are games and books and other material for people to draw inspiration from, whereas once upon a time there would have only been design docs and maybe some screenshots.

Since I highly doubt they went to your and asked for approval fron my place on the outside it seems like they just snatched your baby from your arms and ran off with it. I'm not trying to provoke anything here, I'm just really curious about how you feel about having no real input or power on major project going on in the universe you essentially created and cherish.

Who said I have no input?

As with any IP, it's within our power to determine how we want it to be represented by third parties. What we put out there may not be everyone's cup of tea-- but then it doesn't have to be. Get over yourselves, people.

And most of us here don't want to see this thing fail so we can gloat on the boards saying "we're right". Reality is if it's done bad it'll have a negative impact on BioWare and the Dragon Age universes image. We're not sinisterly rubbing our hands to together and twirling our mustaches going off with an evil laugh, we don't want to see the image of your company and universe tarnished for something that really didn't need to come about and ultimately makes no sense. History says these type of products which stem from video games are doomed to an abysmal failure, there is a chance it could be good, but odds are quite against it.

Anything's possible. So long as the games we make are good, that's our core concern. I don't get that most people here are rooting for our success so much as having a knee-jerk possessive reaction regarding our vision for our own IP-- it strikes me that many people are concerned not about whether a movie is an unneeded extra but rather whose unneeded extra it should be. Sounds a little like the DLC debate, sometimes.

But if you are indeed rooting for our success-- super, thank you. We're looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

i sure hope it works out, david. i've been hoping an animated movie would come out in the dragon age universe. my only problem is i have yet to see one thing anime that i can stomach watching for more than about 30 seconds. i hope it works out. for bioware and the fans. if it's successful that can only mean good things. i have my fingers crossed. by the way, are you able to say if this is what the 2-1-11 card was referring to?

[Lillgremlin]

I'm actually really looking forward to this. I've watched quite a few Animes and some were good, some were bad. Just like most animations out there. Not all Animes are really bad voice acting and pretty colours like Pokemon. Some are actually really good with a serious storyline and good animation. I think it will be quite interesting especially when it comes mages and their magic. I can't wait to hear more about it XD

I'm just wondering if they are going to use the story of the game or go with a different story line like after the events of Awakening or something. If its during the events of the game, I hope they stay with the same voice actors. I couldn't imagine anyone else playing for example: Morrigon or Alistair. To me it would just be weird. But that's just my opinion =D

[Demx]

tmp7704 wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Which subject? The subject of putting Dragon Age in the movies? 

The subject of making money from supplying anime to western viewers. Probably gives them some insight into actual numbers involved and what sort of productions they find appealing. So if they think a movie based on DA out of all things is worth investing money into... well.

Wait, have they been dealing with Dragon Age for 15 years? Or dealing with the subject of making money off of anime for 15 years?

[Indoctrination]

Siradix wrote...

I know you're willing to argue back and forth on this, but I'm not and I did not re-write any context of your post.

Yes you did. You attempted to re-write the my posts to make it look like I said something that I didn't. Nice try though.

Then why is Navarre looking to sell it?

Sounds like you didn't do your homework. Navarre is a computer software company and FUNimation is an anime localization company. Navarre has said that they're looking for someone more compatible with FUNimation to help it grow, and they can use the capital from such a deal to expand their own business. They're not looking to sell it to just anyone. Only companies that have a large and specific presence in FUNimation's market. Read the interview FUNimation did with ANN.

Sure, sure.

Your sarcasm is duly noted.

You're attempts to dismiss the parts of my post that you can't address is noted. I'll say it again. It's very common for U.S. cartoons to be done in Asia. Even King of the Hill was animated in Asia.

[Demx]

Then what was the point in mentioning it was not the first, if that wasn't your intention?



To me, it sounds like Funi is making just enough money for Navarre to keep it out on the market until it gets a reasonable bid for it.



What do you want me to say? That when you read the forums on ANN about a dubbed anime, you are not going to get bunch of feedback saying that dubs suck? That it should be obvious that any outsource material is going to come from that area because of cheap labor?

[tmp7704]

Siradix wrote...

Wait, have they been dealing with Dragon Age for 15 years? Or dealing with the subject of making money off of anime for 15 years?

Given Dragon Age isn't even year old this attempt at sarcasm falls pretty bad, doesn't it? It doesn't take rocket science to figure out which one of these i could mean.

[Vicious]

It will be worth watching as long as it doesn't have androgynous dudes and 15-year-old pretty-boys as main characters, who also happened to end up as master swordfighters.


Lastly:


WAAAAAAH

[Indoctrination]

Siradix wrote...

Then what was the point in mentioning it was not the first, if that wasn't your intention?

I thought you said you weren't willing to continue this? Keep your story straight now. Anyway, I was just pointing out that there's no precedent to portray western anime movies as doomed like you were doing. Nothing more and nothing less.

To me, it sounds like Funi is making just enough money for Navarre to keep it out on the market until it gets a reasonable bid for it.

To me it sounds like you're making things up as you go along. In their report for financial Q4, Navarre said that FUNimation made over $18,000,000. They also said that the only reason it didn't make more was because they didn't release more titles.

What do you want me to say? That when you read the forums on ANN about a dubbed anime, you are not going to get bunch of feedback saying that dubs suck? That it should be obvious that any outsource material is going to come from that area because of cheap labor?

I want you to say something you can back up. That would be nice. Internet otakus are for the most part, irrelevent. Listen to the ANNcast with the CEO from Bang Zoom! It's basically a half hour long complaint about these super otakus who don't contribute to the industry, and just download and complain. Why does anyone have to worry about marketing to people who allegedly don't buy anything anyway?