321 réponses à ce sujet

[Wicked 702]

Indoctrination wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

No offense Sleepless since I like the tone of what you're saying but I can easily name a dark, gritty piece of Western animation. It wasn't gory, simply because it was on our mainstream television, but it was plenty dark. That cartoon was Batman. And it was shown in the 90's. And I grew up on it. And it was awesome. (Same people went on to make Superman and the Justice League(s).) Also, the X-Men cartoon from the 90's could be considered the same category. But anyway....

Those shows were cancelled 15 and 13 years ago respectively. That's the problem with western cartoons. What's appropriate for children has changed radically over the past decade and now shows like Batman: TAS are considered to be too violent and vulgar for kids. That's why the most hardcore cartoon in the west right now is Ben 10 or something. It's pretty embarrassing. With anime however, the sky is the limit. You can do anything because anime is aimed at more than just kids.

Which is the main reason I like anime. Satisfies those more dark, adult content (non-sexual) desires. MWAHA!

[SleeplessInSigil]

Nadiasama wrote...

Oh really? Only a two season anime! Cool, then, I'll probably show it to him after all!

A lot of the best anime are only one season, by the way (most are barely even 15 episodes) like Last Exile, Kaiba or Noein, a few of which are based on subject matter and genres you'd probably never imagine of being explored in any mainstream media, like the eerie'ish implied-afterlife of Haibane Renmei, or the supernatural micro-organisms of Mushishi, or the ironic philosophies in Kino's Journey.

Sadly those rarely ever get licensed or officially hyped enough over here though, precisely because of the limited marketing potential I suppose so you'd really be missing out on some of the most-inspired works of fiction ever conceived (not just saying that as a fanboy at all) if you won't be willing to give the unofficial "fan-subbed" versions a try. 

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 10 juin 2010 - 03:56 .

[CybAnt1]

BTW, I like anime, and I think it's a perfectly fine genre for this.



However, I wish people who don't want Japanese anime stereotyped and pigeonholed, would not do the same thing to Western animation.



If you want to see an animated film which is full of some dark/adult/mature themes befitting Dragon Age, go see the 1980 movie Heavy Metal. (Based on the magazine of the same name.)



As other people mentioned, there was the animated (rotoscoped, really) version of LOTR done by Ralph Baskhi ... a long time prior to Peter Jackson's live version.

[Clover Rider]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Nadiasama wrote...

Oh really? Only a two season anime! Cool, then, I'll probably show it to him after all!

A lot of the best anime are only one season, by the way (most are barely even 15 episodes) like Last Exile, Kaiba or Noein, a few of which are based on subject matter and genres you'd probably never imagine of being explored in any mainstream media, like the eerie'ish implied-afterlife of Haibane Renmei, or the supernatural micro-organism of Mushishi, or the ironic philosophies in Kino's Journey.

Sadly those rarely ever get licensed or officially hyped enough over here though, precisely because of the limited marketing potential I suppose so you'd really be missing out on some of the most-inspired works of fiction ever conceived (not just saying that as a fanboy at all) if you won't be willing to give the unofficial "fan-subbed" versions a try. 

I think most long anime like Dragon Ball and One Piece just are better as manga all that filler kills hell just look at that new Dragon Ball Kai the plot of DBZ in just a bit over 100 episodes .

Modifié par Some Geth, 10 juin 2010 - 02:49 .

[TheMadCat]

I'm slightly confused about this whole debate here. Funimation if I'm not mistaken is purely a western company who converts anime for the western audiences. The main market that would be targeted is the North American/Western European market, given the fact most of the games fan base are located in these regions. What reason is there to assume they'd pursue the more dark and gritty artistic design and story styles that thrive in Japan/Korea but ultimately flop here in the west?

That's my problem with the whole thing. Not the fact it's got the anime tag on it (Which in reality could have been a benefit) but the fact that a lot of the corny and childish shows are what thrive in the target market and not some of the brilliant pieces we've seen from the likes of Miyazaki. It's all about the cash and BioWare isn't exactly known for taking a whole lot of risks. I don't see much hope for this project and it's not because it's got the anime label next to it.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 10 juin 2010 - 03:08 .

[Leon Evelake]

Genraku wrote...

Or ya know it could just be the same art style as dragon age just a little more stylized(handrawn or what have you,) instead of 3d graphics.
Just call it for what it is, its an animated feature based on Dragon age, it wont be Dragon hakusho it wont be dragon league. There is already an established lore to draw from and funimation really has no need or reason to stray from that and give characters wild hair and turn sir pounce-alot into an anthropomorphic catgirl.
In my opinion being done in an "anime" style means more that it will be a bit more stylized art (more detailed armor with cloaks and tattoos, where applicable, some characters may be closer to concept art than in game models,) more detailed settings. I cannot say how much creative licensethey may take with other aspects but I honestly think it'll be no different than watching an animated version of The Calling or Awakening; a story told in the same world but in a different medium. Honestly,to accuse funimation of wanting to have Alistair scream tor raise his power level is like chicken little accusing the sky of wanting to fall.

You don't have to worry about Japanese "Accents" because you will be hearing English voice actors in English speaking countries,( though you could prolly go buy the Japanese language version too if you really wanted.)

Being done in anime style doesn't make it inherently bad or good, it just makes it animated, you cant know if it is good or bad until you actually see it. Until then tis all speculation.
And on that note, I speculate that the Darkspawn will sparkle, Duncan will get rickrolled, and fangirls will glomp Alistair.
and the Archdemon will Geusthost SNL

Holy crap a reasonable post!!!!

Indoctrination wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

No
offense Sleepless since I like the tone of what you're saying but I can
easily name a dark, gritty piece of Western animation. It wasn't gory,
simply because it was on our mainstream television, but it was plenty
dark. That cartoon was Batman. And it was shown in the 90's. And I grew
up on it. And it was awesome. (Same people went on to make Superman and
the Justice League(s).) Also, the X-Men cartoon from the 90's could be
considered the same category. But anyway....

Those shows
were cancelled 15 and 13 years ago respectively. That's the problem
with western cartoons. What's appropriate for children has changed
radically over the past decade and now shows like Batman: TAS are
considered to be too violent and vulgar for kids. That's why the most
hardcore cartoon in the west right now is Ben 10 or something. It's
pretty embarrassing. With anime however, the sky is the limit. You can
do anything because anime is aimed at more than just kids.

Sad but true back in the day I could watch Batman, superman, the marvel cartoons and even Jackie chan adventures the pinnacle of American "dark gritty" cartoons was not batman however but Gargoyles  from Disney of all people.  Sadly those days are over and most American cartoons are garbage focusing on gross out humor.   But we did get Avatar the Last Airbender recently though that was obviously anime inspired.  The thing is than the anime industry is vastly larger in Japan than cartoons in America and seen in a completely different light, because of that it makes sense that they would have more varied and higher quality shows.

[Leon Evelake]

Leon Evelake wrote...

Genraku wrote...

Or ya know it could just be the same art style as dragon age just a little more stylized(handrawn or what have you,) instead of 3d graphics.
Just call it for what it is, its an animated feature based on Dragon age, it wont be Dragon hakusho it wont be dragon league. There is already an established lore to draw from and funimation really has no need or reason to stray from that and give characters wild hair and turn sir pounce-alot into an anthropomorphic catgirl.
In my opinion being done in an "anime" style means more that it will be a bit more stylized art (more detailed armor with cloaks and tattoos, where applicable, some characters may be closer to concept art than in game models,) more detailed settings. I cannot say how much creative licensethey may take with other aspects but I honestly think it'll be no different than watching an animated version of The Calling or Awakening; a story told in the same world but in a different medium. Honestly,to accuse funimation of wanting to have Alistair scream tor raise his power level is like chicken little accusing the sky of wanting to fall.

You don't have to worry about Japanese "Accents" because you will be hearing English voice actors in English speaking countries,( though you could prolly go buy the Japanese language version too if you really wanted.)

Being done in anime style doesn't make it inherently bad or good, it just makes it animated, you cant know if it is good or bad until you actually see it. Until then tis all speculation.
And on that note, I speculate that the Darkspawn will sparkle, Duncan will get rickrolled, and fangirls will glomp Alistair.
and the Archdemon will Geusthost SNL

Holy crap a reasonable post!!!!

Indoctrination wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

No
offense Sleepless since I like the tone of what you're saying but I can
easily name a dark, gritty piece of Western animation. It wasn't gory,
simply because it was on our mainstream television, but it was plenty
dark. That cartoon was Batman. And it was shown in the 90's. And I grew
up on it. And it was awesome. (Same people went on to make Superman and
the Justice League(s).) Also, the X-Men cartoon from the 90's could be
considered the same category. But anyway....

Those shows
were cancelled 15 and 13 years ago respectively. That's the problem
with western cartoons. What's appropriate for children has changed
radically over the past decade and now shows like Batman: TAS are
considered to be too violent and vulgar for kids. That's why the most
hardcore cartoon in the west right now is Ben 10 or something. It's
pretty embarrassing. With anime however, the sky is the limit. You can
do anything because anime is aimed at more than just kids.

Sad but true back in the day I could watch Batman, superman, the marvel
cartoons and even Jackie chan adventures the pinnacle of American "dark
gritty" cartoons was not batman however but Gargoyles (at times)  from
Disney of all people.  Sadly those days are over and most American
cartoons are garbage focusing on gross out humor.   But we did get
Avatar the Last Airbender recently though that was obviously anime
inspired.  The thing is than the anime industry is vastly larger in
Japan than cartoons in America and seen in a completely different
light, because of that it makes sense that they would have more varied
and higher quality shows.

Modifié par Leon Evelake, 10 juin 2010 - 03:56 .

[TurokDarkstar]

I suppose all this dissension is moot considering that these types of projects generally don't receive favorable responses. However, If I did see something that would set this apart from all the other video game to movie conversions, I would also be annoyed with the decision to convert to anime. The older I get, the more anime seems simple, childish and lazy when it comes to the story and dialog. I happen to like the artistic style of anime to a certain degree, but its hard getting past the terrible writing. Oh well, I'm sure life will go on.

[Sigma Tauri]

Leon Evelake wrote...
the pinnacle of American "dark gritty" cartoons was not batman however but Gargoyles  from Disney of all people

Maybe I'm confusing "grit" with just how old the animation is. But, Gargoyles was kinda out there with the whole Midsummer Nights themes. I loved it, but it was still kinda out there. I mean the Maxx was grittier than that.

[Leon Evelake]

monkeycamoran wrote...

Leon Evelake wrote...
the pinnacle of American "dark gritty" cartoons was not batman however but Gargoyles  from Disney of all people

Maybe I'm confusing "grit" with just how old the animation is. But, Gargoyles was kinda out there with the whole Midsummer Nights themes. I loved it, but it was still kinda out there. I mean the Maxx was grittier than that.

I meant relatively, I never saw maxx or spawn or any of those that I think were aimed at older audiences.  I mean it was high fantasy, but I thought it had as gritty a feel as any American cartoon at the time ever had. In the early episodes you saw chalk corpse outlines from murders and stuff making me think it went a little further than batman

[Nadiasama]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Nadiasama wrote...

Oh really? Only a two season anime! Cool, then, I'll probably show it to him after all!

A lot of the best anime are only one season, by the way (most are barely even 15 episodes) like Last Exile, Kaiba or Noein, a few of which are based on subject matter and genres you'd probably never imagine of being explored in any mainstream media, like the eerie'ish implied-afterlife of Haibane Renmei, or the supernatural micro-organism of Mushishi, or the ironic philosophies in Kino's Journey.

Sadly those rarely ever get licensed or officially hyped enough over here though, precisely because of the limited marketing potential I suppose so you'd really be missing out on some of the most-inspired works of fiction ever conceived (not just saying that as a fanboy at all) if you won't be willing to give the unofficial "fan-subbed" versions a try. 

Oh I'm quite aware of that! I've been watching anime since the Saturday Anime Block on SciFi (not SyFy) back in the ye old 90s.  I should have said "only a two season shounen anime". That makes more sense.  My favorite anime of all time is Escaflowne myself.  That was originally supposed to be a 39 episode series where it would have had the climactic battle taken place on earth but alas the ratings in Japan were low and they cut it short, for the better in my opinion. I loved the ending bitter sweet as it was.  Haven't seen Kino's Journey yet but I loved Haibane Renmei. That also had a very solemn ending. And from what I hear so did Kino.

[Sigma Tauri]

Leon Evelake wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

Leon Evelake wrote...
the pinnacle of American "dark gritty" cartoons was not batman however but Gargoyles  from Disney of all people

Maybe I'm confusing "grit" with just how old the animation is. But, Gargoyles was kinda out there with the whole Midsummer Nights themes. I loved it, but it was still kinda out there. I mean the Maxx was grittier than that.

I meant relatively, I never saw maxx or spawn or any of those that I think were aimed at older audiences.  I mean it was high fantasy, but I thought it had as gritty a feel as any American cartoon at the time ever had. In the early episodes you saw chalk corpse outlines from murders and stuff making me think it went a little further than batman

Maybe I was being unfair with Maxx and Gargoyles due to being different audiences. Still, just because I can't remember details like chalk outlines means I wasn't really watching the show for grit, but the greater focus on narrative compared to their cartoon contemporaries at the time. I mean, Gargoyles is peculiar since it was shown in Disney Afternoon block. Yet, that show's remembered fondly because it had gravity that was rare in cartoons.

[traversc]

TurokDarkstar wrote...

I suppose all this dissension is moot considering that these types of projects generally don't receive favorable responses. However, If I did see something that would set this apart from all the other video game to movie conversions, I would also be annoyed with the decision to convert to anime. The older I get, the more anime seems simple, childish and lazy when it comes to the story and dialog. I happen to like the artistic style of anime to a certain degree, but its hard getting past the terrible writing. Oh well, I'm sure life will go on.

The only reason you believe anime has terrible writing is because you've only watched poorly done dubs of children's anime aired on adult swim.  If you want to talk about bad plots, how about Avatar (movie) which was basically one big cliched stereotype, yet was the most expensive film ever made?  Face it, if you want to talk about poor writing, I gaurantee you I can find, at the very least, just as many, if not more examples in western media and box office hits than you can in anime.  Especially in the darker-themed sub-genre, which is basically right up the alley for DA:O. 

It's pretty tiring hearing people in this thread yammer on about how anime sucks because X,Y or Z when it's obvious that X,Y and Z are completely untenable generalizations based on very limited exposure or even thinly veiled prejudice. 

Please, stop.  Seriously. 

TheMadCat wrote...

I'm slightly confused about this whole
debate here. Funimation if I'm not mistaken is purely a western company
who converts anime for the western audiences. The main market that
would be targeted is the North American/Western European market, given
the fact most of the games fan base are located in these regions. What
reason is there to assume they'd pursue the more dark and gritty
artistic design and story styles that thrive in Japan/Korea but
ultimately flop here in the west?

That's my problem with the
whole thing. Not the fact it's got the anime tag on it (Which in reality
could have been a benefit) but the fact that a lot of the corny and
childish shows are what thrive in the target market and not some of the
brilliant pieces we've seen from the likes of Miyazaki. It's all about
the cash and BioWare isn't exactly known for taking a whole lot of
risks. I don't see much hope for this project and it's not because it's
got the anime label next to it.

Agreed, to some extent.  I'm not a fan of Funimation either.  But this project is novel in so many ways and so there will probably be changes to the modus operandi; that is my hope.  I think losing hope is premature. 

Modifié par traversc, 10 juin 2010 - 06:42 .

[Jestina]

They're not going to be turning Dragon Age into a JRPG I hope. There's already enough of those around.

[Behindyounow]

To everyone saying "Yeah well, Anime isn't like all the spiky haired emo stuff. Theres good stuff too! Its not all DBZ!" Maybe you're right. Maybe you're not. Regardless, look at DBZ. It has damn near every Anime cliche that everyone hates.



And guess who brought it to America? I think the company had Fun in its name? Something like that anyway.



Anime might just be a medium, like you say (I still think its a style, because they all have the stupid eyes). Anime might be good if its done by the right company. Is Funimation that company? I don't bloody think so.

[Clover Rider]

Behindyounow wrote...

To everyone saying "Yeah well, Anime isn't like all the spiky haired emo stuff. Theres good stuff too! Its not all DBZ!" Maybe you're right. Maybe you're not. Regardless, look at DBZ. It has damn near every Anime cliche that everyone hates.

And guess who brought it to America? I think the company had Fun in its name? Something like that anyway.

Anime might just be a medium, like you say (I still think its a style, because they all have the stupid eyes). Anime might be good if its done by the right company. Is Funimation that company? I don't bloody think so.

All I see in DBZ is alot of bad filler and the dub of it was crap and I am someone who loves FUNi dubs. Now and I think you need to look up a bit more on anime if you think they all have the same eyes and look up a bit more on FUNi I hate to see posts from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

Modifié par Some Geth, 10 juin 2010 - 02:16 .

[Behindyounow]

DBZ is Funimations flagship series.



'nuff said.

[Indoctrination]

Behindyounow wrote...

To everyone saying "Yeah well, Anime isn't like all the spiky haired emo stuff. Theres good stuff too! Its not all DBZ!" Maybe you're right. Maybe you're not.

Come again? Maybe they're right, maybe they're not? Uh... it's very easy to prove that all anime isn't like DBZ. That's not even a matter of opinion. That statement is wrong on the factual level.

Regardless, look at DBZ. It has damn near every Anime cliche that everyone hates. And guess who brought it to America? I think the company had Fun in its name? Something like that anyway.  Anime might just be a medium, like you say (I still think its a style, because they all have the stupid eyes). Anime might be good if its done by the right company. Is Funimation that company? I don't bloody think so.

Judging FUNimation solely on one property would be like judging BioWare solely on its crappy Sonic RPG for the DS. FUNimation has a very large and diverse catalogue. They don't just appeal to the tastes of just one group of fans. They have all kinds of different titles which appeal to different people. You're attempting to generalize them because you don't know what you're talking about.

[Clover Rider]

Behindyounow wrote...

DBZ is Funimations flagship series.

'nuff said.

And is that so bad the man who made FUNi was a man from Toei who made DBZ so if you are mad at anyone(don't know why)be mad at Toei .

Modifié par Some Geth, 10 juin 2010 - 03:04 .

[Indoctrination]

Behindyounow wrote...
DBZ is Funimations flagship series.
'nuff said.

No, that's not "'nuff said." Dragon Ball Z is a prominent series for them because it sells very well. You make it sound like because DBZ is a top seller, that makes some kind of fundamental statement on what they're capable of, and that what they are only capable of is nothing but DBZ. Completely ignorant and not based in fact at all.

Modifié par Indoctrination, 10 juin 2010 - 02:31 .

[Clover Rider]

[quote]Some Geth wrote...

[quote]Behindyounow wrote...

DBZ is Funimations flagship series.

'nuff said.[/quote]And is that so bad the man who made FUNi was a man from Toei who made DBZ so if you are mad at anyone(don't know why)be mad at Toei .

Modifié par Some Geth, 10 juin 2010 - 02:27 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

TurokDarkstar wrote...

The older I get, the more anime seems simple, childish and lazy when it comes to the story and dialog. I happen to like the artistic style of anime to a certain degree, but its hard getting past the terrible writing.

then you've just seen the stuff licensed and adapted for American audiences. but which Western animation do you find mature and deep and well-written I wonder?

Give Haibane Renmei, Kaiji or Eden of the East (check out the opening sung by Oasis) a try and see if you can find anything comparable on the local scene.

Oh and by the way, those who're citing Batman: The Animated Series; that show has several elements which're common in anime, if not an undeniable influence from them. Let's not even mention the fact that it still falls under the only other genre (besides comedy) of American cartoons: alien/mutant superheroes with generic motives.

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 10 juin 2010 - 04:37 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

Behindyounow wrote...

To everyone saying "Yeah well, Anime isn't like all the spiky haired emo stuff. Theres good stuff too! Its not all DBZ!" Maybe you're right. Maybe you're not. Regardless, look at DBZ. It has damn near every Anime cliche that everyone hates.

pffft you've GOT to be trolling. Enough with the "every's" and "everyone's" to cover up your failure in pointing out anything better on the American scene beyond costumed mutants fighting for generic hogwash like justice and freedom and all that ambiguous easy-to-write crap.


Dragon Ball is no more representative of all Anime than South Park is for all American cartoons - it simply happens to have all the qualities deemed suitable for American audiences (after getting some risqué stuff edited out.) Make of that what you will. 

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 10 juin 2010 - 08:59 .

[TheMadCat]

Agreed, to some extent.  I'm not a fan of Funimation either.  But
this project is novel in so many ways and so there will probably be
changes to the modus operandi; that is my hope.  I think losing hope is
premature. 

Again, it depends on which demogrpahic they want to focus on. They're not going to tackle this from an artistic standpoint, not by a long shot. It's EA, it's about the cash and art be damed. All you have to do is look at the butcher job they did to the Divine Comedy to see that. No, EA is going to look at the demographic that'll bring them in the most in return and style it after series/movies that have been most successful. I don't see them being adventrous or risque with this project, everytime EA has it's bitten them and I'm sure they plan on sinking some cash into this project. I don't see any reason to assume we'll see something all that different from what excells in the western market and considering what typically excells. Well, they'll nab the majority and I suppose ultimately that's all that matters.

[aaniadyen]

TheMadCat wrote...

Agreed, to some extent.  I'm not a fan of Funimation either.  But
this project is novel in so many ways and so there will probably be
changes to the modus operandi; that is my hope.  I think losing hope is
premature. 

Again, it depends on which demogrpahic they want to focus on. They're not going to tackle this from an artistic standpoint, not by a long shot. It's EA, it's about the cash and art be damed. All you have to do is look at the butcher job they did to the Divine Comedy to see that. No, EA is going to look at the demographic that'll bring them in the most in return and style it after series/movies that have been most successful. I don't see them being adventrous or risque with this project, everytime EA has it's bitten them and I'm sure they plan on sinking some cash into this project. I don't see any reason to assume we'll see something all that different from what excells in the western market and considering what typically excells. Well, they'll nab the majority and I suppose ultimately that's all that matters.

It worked ok for Dragon Age: Origins.