49 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonas1974]

After playing through, it just seems that the game is really designed to be played as a Rogue.....

Although you can complete every side quest as another class.....you #1 have to have Steal as a skill, and #2 you have to assassinate people.

So, from a RP stance, you really need to be a Rogue to complete all the side quests.

I just wish they would have had opposing side quests, like preventing something from being stolen, and protecting someone from assassination, and make it so only one of each set can be completed.

I am a perfectionist when it comes to RPG's, and always try to complete all of the available quests.....but I struggle with the RP factors and moral dilemnas. I just find it hard to justify a powerful Mage resorting to pickpocketing folks for extra cash, lol.

[Arttis]

well when zevran comes to assassinate you he brings warriors mages and rogues...

Anyone can steal.From children to old folk.

From my view its all good.

[soteria]

There are a number of quests that involve stopping people from getting killed. If, from an RP standpoint, you choose not to do them, that's your choice. There's no reason a more mercenary character who is willing to do whatever for money shouldn't be able to do all the sidequests, though.

[Jonas1974]

it may be a choice, but it sure as heck helps if you want to an overwhelming success at the Landsmeet, as certain parties only endorse you if you complete the Crows questline

[Jonas1974]

And if you have a "Mercenary" who is willing and skilled at Stealing and Assassination.....it certainly fits the class description for a Rogue....so even if you are a warrior or mage, you are acting like, and probably should be, a rogue.

[Wicked 702]

Depends on your perspective I guess. I would agree with you in part. I could also argue that the mage is truly the favored class in the game since they are pretty much the most powerful. It was really nice for me to find a game where the mages aren't just squishy things that can't hold their own.



No matter what though I'd say the warrior comes in third. But rogue...yeah. The game does lend itself that way.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Being a completionist and a roleplayer will cause you problems in pretty much every game out there. I think you're asking for too much.

[MindYerBeak]

Stealing is what a Rogue does. He has no pity for his mark. I revel in nicking stuff from the refugees in Denerim. They're all going to die anyway, and the Grey Wardens need it more than they do if they want rid of the Archdeamon.

[Elhanan]

Not entirely correct. I recently discovered that one does not need to have Stealth to complete some tasks, as my Mage was able to have Lily tag along and perform the needed work in the shadows. And the Crow assignments seem to be ones that oppose the Warden; no class requirement is needed to complete these quests.

What is more on point, is that one needs to be morally ambiguous (ie; Evil, Not Good, apethetic, etc) to finish all the quests. I have yet to see any of the small quests assigned by the bartender in the Gnawed Noble, as much of what I have read requires one to do same of the vile things I stopped others from doing (eg; blackmail, etc). For this, I will have to create a new Warden, or be satisfied with the knowledge that my Wardens are noble in heart.

[Jonas1974]

I think what would be perfect for me, in this game and others like it, would be a "Swashbuckler" type Fighter-Rogue character. I know you CAN create a STR based Rogue in this game and use dual longswords, but honestly you would suck. And twin Daggers just feel TOO roguish.



I know if you hold out long enough you can get Legionnaire Scout, but on the way you would be too weak trying to balance STR, DEX, and CUN.....not to mention the huge health deficiency as opposed to a warrior.



In older games where they had Alignment, I always played Chaotic Good...

[Jonas1974]

I guess what I am really wanting is either a character designed to ride a fine line between good and evil (i.e. Van Helsing), or an alternate questline to each Morally oriented questline, so that you can achieve the same sense of completion and experience level either way.

[Jonas1974]

I really had a hard time passing up the Assassin's Guild questline in Oblivion lol......it was truly evil, but hella good gear from it and of course the completion factor.

[Rhys Cordelle]

A strength based, sword weilding rogue can work just fine. It may not be as effective as a dex based, dagger weilding rogue, but this is a singleplayer game. You're not in competition with anyone else. As long as the character can actually hit things and survive reasonably well, then you can do whatever the bloody hell you like.

[Elhanan]

Jonas1974 wrote...

I think what would be perfect for me, in this game and others like it, would be a "Swashbuckler" type Fighter-Rogue character. I know you CAN create a STR based Rogue in this game and use dual longswords, but honestly you would suck. And twin Daggers just feel TOO roguish.

I know if you hold out long enough you can get Legionnaire Scout, but on the way you would be too weak trying to balance STR, DEX, and CUN.....not to mention the huge health deficiency as opposed to a warrior.

In older games where they had Alignment, I always played Chaotic Good...

My first Warden was much like this; equally high DEX and STR. He was a DC Roguish archer with the Duelist spec., Since then, I have used another with added Assassin, but I only used the sprc bonuses. And they were both far from powerless; boldly wearing heavy armors and landing 500+ dmg shots from the bow while defeating Loghain and others using longsword and shield, or longsword and dagger.

More importantly, they were both quite fun to play, as they could accomplish most of the quests.

[soteria]

it may be a choice, but it sure as heck helps if you want to an overwhelming success at the Landsmeet, as certain parties only endorse you if you complete the Crows questline

Doing that questline is completely unnecessary to success at the Landsmeet.

[mousestalker]

The only real advantage to playing a rogue as the PC character is that you can potentially open every chest in game. That's it.

[Yrkoon]

Jonas1974 wrote...

So, from a RP stance, you really need to be a Rogue to complete all the side quests.

No... you need to be an "Adventurer".  There's a difference.


First off, from a role-playing perspective, Rogues do not  have the monopoly on assassinations and stealing in Fereldan.   I know a character in this game who was hired by   Logain  to assassinate a political rival.  And he was a Mage, not a rogue.    I know a mad hermit in this game who stole an acorn from a  living tree.  And again, he was a Mage... not a rogue.  More to the point:    Role-playing, by definition, leaves open the logic that any character you wish can have  murderous/kleptomaniac tendencies.  Stealing  is not part of the Rogue talent tree for this reason alone..


As for stealing.  You don't need to steal anything (via the skill or otherwise) to complete this game.      And while  you do need at least one rank in stealing to get Slim's quests, I fail to see how  doing so suddenly makes you a "rogue"  from an RP perspective.   Does committing any crime make you "roguish"?  Blood magic is  Illegal.    Does using blood magic make you a rogue?    

Modifié par Yrkoon, 08 juin 2010 - 02:23 .

[Elhanan]

mousestalker wrote...

The only real advantage to playing a rogue as the PC character is that you can potentially open every chest in game. That's it.

Or traps. Or avoid being beaten by mobs via Stealth. Or having more Skills than any other class. Or being able to place arrows in foes that do more damage than Warriors. And these are only a few observations; possibly more including Dirty Fighting which appears to work on a vast majority of oppents, and it is available as a first lvl/tier slot.

Pls do not misunderstand, I like Warriors; being able to accept tons of punishment, lay waste with 2H, etc. But they are the plainly wrapped class that can be fairly well duped with AI

And Mages can deal out more death than anyone, but still must rely on another class for the 'minor details' in order to gather more loot and avoid more damage.

Rogues have depth; are complex enough to be built many, many ways which is great for us that dislike appearing the same as any other.

[Arthur Cousland]

It would have been nice for stealing/stealth to not be required for the Slim quests, or at least make some kind of warrior or mage counterpart. Kind of like how games such as Oblivion have their warrior/mage/thieves guild questlines.

[Elhanan]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

It would have been nice for stealing/stealth to not be required for the Slim quests, or at least make some kind of warrior or mage counterpart. Kind of like how games such as Oblivion have their warrior/mage/thieves guild questlines.

Stealing is required. but not stealth; discovered that recently. Just tell Slim you are interested in both at first, and then take your Stealth expert if you wish to avoid bloodshed. Any class can Steal, so this is open for all classes.

[Jonas1974]

Yrkoon wrote...

Jonas1974 wrote...

So, from a RP stance, you really need to be a Rogue to complete all the side quests.

No... you need to be an "Adventurer".  There's a difference.


First off, from a role-playing perspective, Rogues do not  have the monopoly on assassinations and stealing in Fereldan.   I know a character in this game who was hired by   Logain  to assassinate a political rival.  And he was a Mage, not a rogue.    I know a mad hermit in this game who stole an acorn from a  living tree.  And again, he was a Mage... not a rogue.  More to the point:    Role-playing, by definition, leaves open the logic that any character you wish can have  murderous/kleptomaniac tendencies.  Stealing  is not part of the Rogue talent tree for this reason alone..


As for stealing.  You don't need to steal anything (via the skill or otherwise) to complete this game.      And while  you do need at least one rank in stealing to get Slim's quests, I fail to see how  doing so suddenly makes you a "rogue"  from an RP perspective.   Does committing any crime make you "roguish"?  Blood magic is  Illegal.    Does using blood magic make you a rogue?    

So you fail to see why someone who steals for money would be called a rogue?

[soteria]

No... you need to be an "Adventurer". There's a difference.



First off, from a role-playing perspective, Rogues do not have the monopoly on assassinations and stealing in Fereldan. I know a character in this game who was hired by Logain to assassinate a political rival. And he was a Mage, not a rogue. I know a mad hermit in this game who stole an acorn from a living tree. And again, he was a Mage... not a rogue. More to the point: Role-playing, by definition, leaves open the logic that any character you wish can have murderous/kleptomaniac tendencies. Stealing is not part of the Rogue talent tree for this reason alone..



As for stealing. You don't need to steal anything (via the skill or otherwise) to complete this game. And while you do need at least one rank in stealing to get Slim's quests, I fail to see how doing so suddenly makes you a "rogue" from an RP perspective. Does committing any crime make you "roguish"? Blood magic is Illegal. Does using blood magic make you a rogue?

QFT. As I think about it, my rogue *didn't* do all the sidequests, for RP reasons. The more I think about it, the sillier this complaint becomes. "I'm playing a character that for RP reasons won't do just anything, and there are quests in the game that my character won't do. I want to do all the quests. Bioware, fix please." Seriously? Basically you're just asking for Bioware to artificially restrain your character from doing quests a certain character probably wouldn't do, but could.

[Jonas1974]

soteria wrote...

No... you need to be an "Adventurer". There's a difference.

First off, from a role-playing perspective, Rogues do not have the monopoly on assassinations and stealing in Fereldan. I know a character in this game who was hired by Logain to assassinate a political rival. And he was a Mage, not a rogue. I know a mad hermit in this game who stole an acorn from a living tree. And again, he was a Mage... not a rogue. More to the point: Role-playing, by definition, leaves open the logic that any character you wish can have murderous/kleptomaniac tendencies. Stealing is not part of the Rogue talent tree for this reason alone..

As for stealing. You don't need to steal anything (via the skill or otherwise) to complete this game. And while you do need at least one rank in stealing to get Slim's quests, I fail to see how doing so suddenly makes you a "rogue" from an RP perspective. Does committing any crime make you "roguish"? Blood magic is Illegal. Does using blood magic make you a rogue?

QFT. As I think about it, my rogue *didn't* do all the sidequests, for RP reasons. The more I think about it, the sillier this complaint becomes. "I'm playing a character that for RP reasons won't do just anything, and there are quests in the game that my character won't do. I want to do all the quests. Bioware, fix please." Seriously? Basically you're just asking for Bioware to artificially restrain your character from doing quests a certain character probably wouldn't do, but could.

actually just discussing how it would be better to have alternatives, to accomplish the same experience level and game completion without comprimising morality.

nowhere in any posts does it ask Bioware to fix anything.

please read the previous posts before speaking.

[Rhys Cordelle]

There are heaps of rewards for being "good". I found that roleplaying an "evil" character cuts you off from a lot of xp opportunities.

Evil
"Please will you help me find my brother" - no get lost (gain = nothing)

Good
"How would you like to assassinate some people for me?" - Assassin? Die! (gain = xp and item drops from killing the Crows)

Modifié par Rhys Cordelle, 08 juin 2010 - 11:10 .

[Elhanan]

Just started playing Evil a while back, but these are the kinds of answers that I avoid. I prefer to play as a Deceiver, and exploit the child's situation to gather the best results for the Warden. Being cruel and thoughtless is only one way to play that role.

And the Crow missions are not assassinations per se, but encounters that are uncovered against the Warden and his allies. The only one I question is the ambassador, but he gets violent when I enter his room to talk, so debate is impossible....