374 réponses à ce sujet

[calabain]

smudboy wrote...

huntrrz wrote...

smudboy wrote...

So therefore these ships must be IFF capable/have some other means of enabling the effects of IFF, and were destroyed by the Collectors/Oculus/stress of traveling through the relay, and are somehow just floating around there.

There is another possibility you have not considered - you don't know enough about black holes and the environment they create.

Ripped apart by a black hole = time/space NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM (no debris)

Actually, no.  You don't get "no debris" until things reach the event horizon.  Before things get there, they are subjected to tidal forces due to the differing gravitational forces exerted on the sides closest to / furthest from the hole as they increase.

Sorry, I thought this was pretty common knowledge among SF fans.  Niven and Pohl go into this in some detail in some of their stories.

Yeah but the narrative doesn't make reference to Niven or Pohl.  You coudl be talking about Ben and Jerry for all it's worth.

If you get torn up by a black hole, you're already going toward that black hole.  If those ships had gotten caught by that black hole, they'd eventually be taken up by it, assuming these ships are to be ≈50,000 years old.  They would not just be hanging around floating right where the Normandy exits.

This implies these ships were IFF/IFF-solution based.  They wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the safe zone, and if destroyed through the journey or exited into a blackhole/star, said debris wouldn't just be "hanging around" in the same zone.  It'd be thousands of kilmeters away, already swallowed up by a black hole/star.

Does it really matter THAT much? Its just to make the scene more dramatic. I, for one, would rather they focus on greater squad interaction (both with shepard and among themselves), making sure our choices actually matter, developing our squadmates to even greater levels, etc, rather than focusing on properties of the universe that most people have a hard time truly comprehending anyway. Thats just me though   

[smudboy]

InvaderErl wrote...

Again, the black hole is not the only danger, there are exploding suns at the very least and likely other astronomical dangers.

The whole point of the IFF is you need to come out at an EXACT point, even minimal drift will result in death. If a ship was off by a few thousand kilometers which in space is practically pissing distance, you die. So its not unusual that the Normandy when it came out would have found itself in debris that likely is drifting through the safe zone created after they were torn to pieces, blasted apart whatever.

I have never assumed a black hole or holes are the only danger.  In fact I've always stated the galactic core is filled with black holes and exploding stars.

I am well aware of what the IFF does.  How is it not unusual that the Normandy, when arriving at the safe-zone properly, would encounter debris?

Where did this debris come from?  In order to arrive there, they'd have to be 1a) IFF enabled/IFF-type ships, 1b) extremely lucky ships that made that exact IFF-like mass effect corridor, 2) 50,000 years old, 3) destroyed exactly at that point.  This debris could not have come from non-IFF ships.  Point 1a/b) is extremely important, since we nearly ram into this debris.  If the premise is you need the IFF to arrive at a very specific point, then being the safe-zone, then being several 1000s of kilometers away, well, you wouldn't be there, now would you?  Thus those ancient 50,000 ships must have had IFF type devices, as well, been attacked by the Collectors/Oculus.  If their engine cores had destroyed themselves during the journey (like how the IFF overloads the Normandy during the flight), and the ship exploded while going through the IFF mass relay corridor, then the inertia (after decelerating from exiting the corridor) would keep traveling.  It wouldn't be RIGHT where the Normandy exits into the safe zone.

[smudboy]

huntrrz wrote...

smudboy wrote...

huntrrz wrote...

(Please note that I added some more detail to the post you replied to above.)

smudboy wrote...

True.  Do I have to be an astrophysicist to properly understand how all this **** should work?  I would hope not.

No, but when forming criticisms in the future you might consider whether what you regard as a 'plot hole' is actually a lack of knowledge on your part.

I'm quite sure it isn't.  It would be a lack of knowledge on the writers part, as well as their lack of storytelling to tell me wtf is going on.

You see, this is why people find you disagreeable to converse with.  You assume that your ignorance is the writer's fault.  What they wrote is consistent with the understanding we've had of the region around a black hole for at least several decades.  This is a video game, not a science course.

If you run into something you don't understand, you could have the good grace to research it or ask for an explanation, instead of declaring it 'wrong' and petulantly ignoring any input to the contrary.

You keep referring to a single black hole.  There are many black holes and exploding stars in the galactic core.

I quite understand that there is an acretion disk in the safe zone, that is reminiscent of a black hole within that safe zone (which I assume to be a black hole, even if there is no commentary on it directly. An acretion disk can come from any gravity well-object, like a star.)  However this is not the only danger of the galactic core, and is further away from where the Normandy exits the corridor, and thus away from other dangers.  I'm referring to how other ships might have traveled there via Omega-4 relay, and how those ships must have had some other kind of IFF based technology to get there, 50,000 years ago.  (And then the question becomes how did they make their own technology, were they some other race, did they encounter some other Reapers and thus had their IFF's taken out, too.)

There is no other possibility of having such space debris just sit there, unless it came from 1) IFF based ships, 2) ships destroyed/disabled by the Collectors/Oculus between now and 50,000 or so years ago.

[smudboy]

calabain wrote...
Does it really matter THAT much? Its just to make the scene more dramatic. I, for one, would rather they focus on greater squad interaction (both with shepard and among themselves), making sure our choices actually matter, developing our squadmates to even greater levels, etc, rather than focusing on properties of the universe that most people have a hard time truly comprehending anyway. Thats just me though   

No.  But the original question related to sending probes, and some ridiculous idea that sending probes, which were seemingly a safer thing to do, was a worse idea than bullrushing the thing.

I'm with you 100% chief.  However, some people who like responding think otherwise.

[huntrrz]

smudboy wrote...

You keep referring to a single black hole.  There are many black holes and exploding stars in the galactic core.

But only one that is relevant to the game - the one in the immediate vicinity of the relay.  They're not stacked up like cordwood, we're talking astronomical distances.

I quite understand that there is an acretion disk in the safe zone, that is reminiscent of a black hole within that safe zone (which I assume to be a black hole, even if there is no commentary on it directly. An acretion disk can come from any gravity well-object, like a star.)  However this is not the only danger of the galactic core, and is further away from where the Normandy exits the corridor, and thus away from other dangers.

The "safe zone" is the area in the immediate vicinity of the relay which is not subject to immediate capture by the black hole.  The black hole is not in the safe zone - it is what is creating the UN-safe zone.  The acretion disc is formed around the black hole - it is not the safe zone either.

 I'm referring to how other ships might have traveled there via Omega-4 relay, and how those ships must have had some other kind of IFF based technology to get there, 50,000 years ago.

And it has been repeatedly explained to you that those ships did NOT have an IFF, so they came out outside the safe zone and were torn apart by the black hole's tidal forces.

(And then the question becomes how did they make their own technology, were they some other race, did they encounter some other Reapers and thus had their IFF's taken out, too.)

What you've done is invent a question and demand an answer to it, and studiously ignored all attempts to explain that your question is based on your misunderstanding of the situation.

Do you really wonder why people suggest you may be trolling?

There is no other possibility of having such space debris just sit there, unless it came from 1) IFF based ships, 2) ships destroyed/disabled by the Collectors/Oculus between now and 50,000 or so years ago.

False conclusion based on false premises.  (And if you're not just trolling and actually care, the debris is still there because of time dilation effects experienced while 'falling' into the black hole.)

[InvaderErl]

Or to offer a different explanation, although your point about time dilation is a good one,

They drift back into the safe zone post destruction (a distance of a few thousand k makes this completely probable) and as it looks like according to what we see, fall into orbit around the Collector Base (as it can resist the force of a black hole, it must be able to generate its over gravitational force).

Modifié par InvaderErl, 11 juin 2010 - 03:17 .

[Yakko77]

I greatly enjoyed ME2, flaws and all. ME1 was simply a better story as ME2 strayed too far away from the Reaper threat for too much of the game and the Shadow Broker aside from brief mention had virtually no place in the game and they were vital story elements in ME1 but ME2 had better gameplay IMO. Both are in my Top 5 list

[smudboy]

huntrrz wrote...
But only one that is relevant to the game - the one in the immediate vicinity of the relay.  They're not stacked up like cordwood, we're talking astronomical distances.

If we are to assume non-IFF ships do not hit the safe zone, then they hit stars or black holes.  If they hit stars of black holes, there is no debris of them.

The "safe zone" is the area in the immediate vicinity of the relay which is not subject to immediate capture by the black hole.  The black hole is not in the safe zone - it is what is creating the UN-safe zone.  The acretion disc is formed around the black hole - it is not the safe zone either.

Yes.

And it has been repeatedly explained to you that those ships did NOT have an IFF, so they came out outside the safe zone and were torn apart by the black hole's tidal forces.

But it is impossible for them to not have an IFF/IFF solution, yet still be there.  As I have explained.

What you've done is invent a question and demand an answer to it, and studiously ignored all attempts to explain that your question is based on your misunderstanding of the situation.

I'm quite sure if a space faring object, ship, or otherwise, gets "torn up" by a star or blackhole, there would be no debris of it.  By torn up, I mean getting anywhere near its gravity well.  Because once it hits that gravity well, we can assume the pull from the star/blackhole was the end of such an object, after 50,000 years.

Do you really wonder why people suggest you may be trolling?

They're not as intelligent and dedicated.

False conclusion based on false premises.  (And if you're not just trolling and actually care, the debris is still there because of time dilation effects experienced while 'falling' into the black hole.)

Oh so now time dilation has something to do with this?

Where in the narrative is this explanation?  Since there is time dilation, and thus, we are within this realm of time dilation (as we are within the space of the debris), would we not also be experiencing time dilation?  Would time be sped up/slowed down?  Would we even be aware of the dilation of time when we exit such a phenomenom (which by the way, the narrative hasn't shown or explained?)  Now, you've just invented an explanation to the existence of a physical object without explaning how that object even got there: instead, saying there's a phenomenon associated with black holes, and such, objects in said space are affected by it (yet we can't see or have reference to it.)  This is worse than supposition: this is stretching for an answer to explain the mystery of the debris.

[InvaderErl]

smudboy wrote...

huntrrz wrote...
But only one that is relevant to the game - the one in the immediate vicinity of the relay.  They're not stacked up like cordwood, we're talking astronomical distances.

If we are to assume non-IFF ships do not hit the safe zone, then they hit stars or black holes.  If they hit stars of black holes, there is no debris of them.

Its not throwing them into black holes, they're just drifting a few thousand K from the relay, the black hole that is visible is MUCH farther than that. They're being dropped just out of the safety zone and get ripped up before falling back into the safety zone as they get dragged towards the black hole.

smudboy wrote...

But it is impossible for them to not have
an IFF/IFF solution, yet still be there.  As I have explained.

Again the drift is very small, its not flinging them across the star system.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 11 juin 2010 - 03:49 .

[smudboy]

InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...

huntrrz wrote...
But only one that is relevant to the game - the one in the immediate vicinity of the relay.  They're not stacked up like cordwood, we're talking astronomical distances.

If we are to assume non-IFF ships do not hit the safe zone, then they hit stars or black holes.  If they hit stars of black holes, there is no debris of them.

Its not throwing them into black holes, they're just drifting a few thousand K from the relay, the black hole that is visible is MUCH farther than that. They're being dropped just out of the safety zone and get ripped up before falling back into the safety zone as they get dragged towards the black hole.

I'm not referring to the black hole in the safe zone.

I think you misunderstand what is means by the drift (or rather don't understand my definition.)
                                                                       _
                                |                                       |(etc.)
                                |                                       |
Normal Space              |      Galactic Core             |(3k)                         Galactic Core
                                |                                       |
                                |                                       |(1k)
(Omega-4)----------------(IFF ME corridor)---------------->(*Safe Zone)
                                |                                       |(1k)
                                |                                       |
Normal Space              |      Galactic Core              |(3k)                        Galactic Core
                                |                                       |
                                |                                       |(etc.)
                                                                       _
Think of the Omega-4 relay as an archer on a pivot.  What that means is from the Omega-4 relay, the ship will drift away from the target safe zone (in a conal shape, considering we're referring to 3D space, but this diagram is 2D.)  Thus if you're not IFF, the chance of hitting that specific area is virtually impossible.  You will in fact collide with the rest of the black holes/stars in the galactic core.  The magnitude of the vector is the same (whatever the distance is/length of the arrow from Omega-4 to the Safe Zone), but the vector itself is not the same (unless it's an IFF ship.)

You are assuming that a) they are getting dropped out of the safety zone, 1000s of k away, get "ripped apart" by stars and black holes there, c) somehow (now debris not swallowed by their ripped apart stars and black holes?) wind up in the safe zone at the point where the Normandy exits the corridor (*).  This does not make any sense, as any area outside the safe zone is the Galactic Core, which are filled with black holes and stars, even with any kind of time dilation.

The only way for ships to make it into the Safe Zone, is with an IFF/IFF type solution.  If they did have an IFF solution, and their engines blew up while in transit, and turned the ship to debris, when they go into the safe zone after decelerating, the debris will maintain its momentum: it wouldn't be right there (when reaching the magnitude of the vector), and would eventually hit the acretion disk.

Modifié par smudboy, 11 juin 2010 - 04:07 .

[huntrrz]

[quote]smudboy wrote...

[quote]huntrrz wrote...
But only one that is relevant to the game - the one in the immediate vicinity of the relay.  They're not stacked up like cordwood, we're talking astronomical distances.
[/quote]
If we are to assume non-IFF ships do not hit the safe zone, then they hit stars or black holes.  If they hit stars of black holes, there is no debris of them.
[/quote]
Incorrect, as explained previously.

[quote][quote]
The "safe zone" is the area in the immediate vicinity of the relay which is not subject to immediate capture by the black hole.  The black hole is not in the safe zone - it is what is creating the UN-safe zone.  The acretion disc is formed around the black hole - it is not the safe zone either.
[/quote]
Yes.[/quote]Then you acknowledge that your previous statement of the environment was completely incorrect.

[quote][quote]
And it has been repeatedly explained to you that those ships did NOT have an IFF, so they came out outside the safe zone and were torn apart by the black hole's tidal forces.
[/quote]
But it is impossible for them to not have an IFF/IFF solution, yet still be there.  As I have explained.
[/quote]
Incorrect,  As explained previously.

[quote][quote]
What you've done is invent a question and demand an answer to it, and studiously ignored all attempts to explain that your question is based on your misunderstanding of the situation.
[/quote]
I'm quite sure if a space faring object, ship, or otherwise, gets "torn up" by a star or blackhole, there would be no debris of it.  By torn up, I mean getting anywhere near its gravity well.  Because once it hits that gravity well, we can assume the pull from the star/blackhole was the end of such an object, after 50,000 years.
[/quote]
Asked and answered.
[quote][quote]False conclusion based on false premises.  (And if you're not just trolling and actually care, the debris is still there because of time dilation effects experienced while 'falling' into the black hole.)[/quote]
Oh so now time dilation has something to do with this?[/quote]Yep.  Yet another aspect of the environment surrounding a black hole that you are apparently unaware of.

[quote]
Where in the narrative is this explanation?[/quote]It does not appear in the narrative.  The authors apparently assumed a certain baseline of knowledge (or an ability to look things up).

[quote]Since there is time dilation, and thus, we are within this realm of time dilation (as we are within the space of the debris), would we not also be experiencing time dilation?[/quote]A valid question.

[quote]Would time be sped up/slowed down?[/quote]Slowed down.  That's what "time dilation" means.

[quote]Would we even be aware of the dilation of time when we exit such a phenomenom (which by the way, the narrative hasn't shown or explained?)[/quote]Unaware.  If you're interested, read up on relativity.

[quote]Now, you've just invented an explanation to the existence of a physical object without explaning how that object even got there: instead, saying there's a phenomenon associated with black holes, and such, objects in said space are affected by it (yet we can't see or have reference to it.)  This is worse than supposition: this is stretching for an answer to explain the mystery of the debris.
[/quote]I've invented nothing.  I'm not responsible for your ignorance either.

Modifié par huntrrz, 11 juin 2010 - 04:10 .

[smudboy]

huntrrz wrote...
Incorrect, as explained previously.

Try again.  As you've yet to negate my assessment.

Then you acknowledge that your previous statement of the environment was completely incorrect.

No.  Your definition does not negate my assessment.

Incorrect,  As explained previously.

Try again.  As you've yet to negate my assessment.

Asked and answered.

What was the question?

Yep.  Yet another aspect of the environment surrounding a black hole that you are apparently unaware of.

There is nothing wrong with telling a story expecting a certain degree of knowledge; however, this does not explain the environment, or the existence of objects within it, assuming the viewer knows a certain aspect of science.

It does not appear in the narrative.  The authors apparently assumed a certain baseline of knowledge (or an ability to look things up).

If it does not appear in the narrative, then it is a plot hole.  Exactly what would I look up for the existence of material of objects that is destroyed by astrophysical phenomenon to explain its existence and state?  The search criteria is too broad.

A valid question.

And what would time dilation have to do with the existence of the objects?

I've invented nothing.  I'm not responsible for your ignorance either.

No, but you've yet to explain how these objects came to be, let alone still be.

[adam_grif]

If you get torn up by a black hole, you're already going toward that black hole. If those ships had gotten caught by that black hole, they'd eventually be taken up by it, assuming these ships are to be ≈50,000 years old. They would not just be hanging around floating right where the Normandy exits.



This implies these ships were IFF/IFF-solution based. They wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the safe zone, and if destroyed through the journey or exited into a blackhole/star, said debris wouldn't just be "hanging around" in the same zone. It'd be thousands of kilmeters away, already swallowed up by a black hole/star.

Not really, for all we know the dead ships were captured by collector drones and towed back to that general area. The primary danger isn't "getting sucked into a black hole", it's "get killed by radiation". Black holes have the exact same gravitational pull as the star that collapsed into it, so you can maintain a stable orbit around a hole just like you can with any star.



Why would they tow it there? Scrap metal, repairs, reclaiming resources from them to refuel and refurbish their own stuff. EDI says that the Normandy isn't designed to take impact with that sized debris, but evidently the Collector ship is, because there's NO WAY they could possibly avoid hitting it

[smudboy]

adam_grif wrote...
Not really, for all we know the dead ships were captured by collector drones and towed back to that general area. The primary danger isn't "getting sucked into a black hole", it's "get killed by radiation". Black holes have the exact same gravitational pull as the star that collapsed into it, so you can maintain a stable orbit around a hole just like you can with any star.

Oh?  I was unaware of that.  That would definitely explain, or show, a more efficient collecting method.  And a rather misuse of resources by just having abandoned ships hang about.  But this implies they've been collecting other species.

Why would they tow it there? Scrap metal, repairs, reclaiming resources from them to refuel and refurbish their own stuff. EDI says that the Normandy isn't designed to take impact with that sized debris, but evidently the Collector ship is, because there's NO WAY they could possibly avoid hitting it

Yes.  Well, perhaps the IFF found on the 37 million year old Reaper is slightly different than the one they possess?  The Collector Cruiser is several times larger and would definitely impact with debris there, if the area of space when decelerating is so small.

[ReluctantMind]

One possibility for some portion of the ships, though not all of them is that they were Prothean vessels flown by indoctrinated Protheans to this prepared area to construct the station. Ships could have been stripped of parts to construct the station and abandoned over the millenia as the Protheans were modified to become the Collectors. That would not account for all the ships, but could at least explain some of them. It may also have been a convenient way for the indoctrinated Protheans to get rid of ships before the Reapers left. There would still likely be many ships left over even after the war with the Reapers and they could take material through the Omega-4 relay and eventually be abandoned to make sure no trace of them remained in the galaxy for subsequent civilizations to study. That would also keep the raw materials available for future use, which would not be the case if they tossed them into the black hole. Joker seemed to think they represented all the ships that came through the relay throughout time, but he could be wrong at least in part.

[InvaderErl]

smudboy wrote...

I'm not referring to the black hole in the safe zone.

I think you misunderstand what is means by the drift (or rather don't understand my definition.)
                                                                       _
                                |                                       |(etc.)
                                |                                       |
Normal Space              |      Galactic Core             |(3k)                         Galactic Core
                                |                                       |
                                |                                       |(1k)
(Omega-4)----------------(IFF ME corridor)---------------->(*Safe Zone)
                                |                                       |(1k)
                                |                                       |
Normal Space              |      Galactic Core              |(3k)                        Galactic Core
                                |                                       |
                                |                                       |(etc.)
                                                                       _
Think of the Omega-4 relay as an archer on a pivot.  What that means is from the Omega-4 relay, the ship will drift away from the target safe zone (in a conal shape, considering we're referring to 3D space, but this diagram is 2D.)  Thus if you're not IFF, the chance of hitting that specific area is virtually impossible.  You will in fact collide with the rest of the black holes/stars in the galactic core.  The magnitude of the vector is the same (whatever the distance is/length of the arrow from Omega-4 to the Safe Zone), but the vector itself is not the same (unless it's an IFF ship.)

You are assuming that a) they are getting dropped out of the safety zone, 1000s of k away, get "ripped apart" by stars and black holes there, c) somehow (now debris not swallowed by their ripped apart stars and black holes?) wind up in the safe zone at the point where the Normandy exits the corridor (*).  This does not make any sense, as any area outside the safe zone is the Galactic Core, which are filled with black holes and stars, even with any kind of time dilation.

The problem with your approach as I see it is you assume there are black holes EVERYWHERE outside of the safety zone when the visual evidence we are given doesn't support that. There is ONE large black hole past the Collector base on the other side of the safety zone.

There are other black holes of course beyond our ability to see them but the closest one is the one we should be concerned with as it will be the dominant source of gravity while in normal space.

To use your diagram, ships enter the system but are dropped alongside the safety corridor rather than IN it, perhaps even further back a few thousand k - in either case they end up within the dangerous galactic core region. The forces of the black hole affect the ship tearing it apart , however there is still considerable distance between them and the black hole, the debris still needs to travel there.

As it travels it falls back into the safety zone which we know is wider than the entrance leading into it.

Now as to why the debris hasn't just continued PAST the safe zone and fallen into the black hole, the pattern of the debris seems to have begun circling the Collector base. We can assume that the base is somehow creating its own center of gravity to resist the forces of the black hole, so as the debris is entering the safe zone they end up pulled into the gravity of the Collector base and end up orbiting it creating a ring around it much as planets pull meteors and asteroids into orbit creating rings.

The reason I linked to this picture, you can see the debris having formed a ring,

Modifié par InvaderErl, 11 juin 2010 - 04:51 .

[adam_grif]

Oh? I was unaware of that. That would definitely explain, or show, a more efficient collecting method. And a rather misuse of resources by just having abandoned ships hang about. But this implies they've been collecting other species.

Again, not necessarily. Explorers have left through the O4 relay many times and simply never returned. It's possible that the relay and the collector station existed before the Collectors did (since the reapers put it there). Who knows, maybe that's where Sovereign was hiding out for tens of thousands of years?



Someone else raised the possibility of them being Protehan vessels, also possible. It's probably a combination of "all of the above". As for them all being dragged there, that does seem odd. Another possibility is that, although the majority of ships get destroyed because they miss the safe zone, a minority (1 in 100 perhaps) do hit the safe zone by chance. Thus they would fly out, then get destroyed by impact with other debris.



In fact, the Occulus / Debris being there would make a lot more sense if it was intentionally left there as a makeshift minefield for this 1 in 100 ships that chance it through the relay. It's hard to imagine why the Occuli would even exist if nobody ever made it through.

[InvaderErl]

As I see it the position of "collecting" is something passed down to slave races from previous extinction cycles.

adam_grif wrote...

Not really, for all we know the dead ships were captured by collector drones and towed back to that general area. The primary danger isn't "getting sucked into a black hole", it's "get killed by radiation". Black holes have the exact same gravitational pull as the star that collapsed into it, so you can maintain a stable orbit around a hole just like you can with any star.

Really?

Now I'm just confused.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 11 juin 2010 - 04:52 .

[adam_grif]

Really?



Now I'm just confused.

Yeah. Gravity is directly proportional to mass, but diminishes with distance according to the inverse-square law. When a giant star collapses into a tiny black hole, it's gravity at any given distance remains constant, because the Mass has not changed at all. So if our own star collapsed into a black hole right now, we would maintain the same orbit without disruptions, although we'd die because we need the sun's light to keep our civilizaiton going.



The reason black holes have an event horizon and "suck light in" past it is because they are so small. Just as when you move further away from something, gravity gets weaker, as you move closer to it it becomes stronger. Normally you can't get any closer to a Star than it's surface, and you'll be stopped by the matter there. With a black hole, however, you can get FAR closer since there isn't a surface anymore. Thus, as you get closer, gravity intensifies, and if you get close enough you hit the Event Horizon, where it's so strong light can't escape.



Black holes also emit radiation. Virtual particles are particle-antiparticle pairs that briefly pop into existence in a vacuum before anihilating each other. Normally this is so small as to be unnoticable, however there is a point immediately around the Event Horizon, where half of these pairs are close enough to be pulled into the event horizon, but the other half are created outside of it. This, it 'escapes' and becomes 'real'. This means that all black holes emit particle radiation, called "hawking radiation". Smaller black holes emit more proportionally to their size. Conservation of mass dictates that since black holes are creating new mass, they must lose mass to keep things ballanced. And so they do. Thus, this is a process by which a black hole "evaporates" (it's not evaporation but it's a reasonably good metaphor).



The idea that the Galactic Core is unsurvivable because of black holes and exploding stars is quite odd though. I'm not sure where the writers got that from.

[InvaderErl]

DAMN IT WE SPENT A PAGE ARGUING THIS

GOD DARN IT.


Ah well, thanks for that though - seriously informative.

adam_grif wrote...
The idea that the Galactic Core is
unsurvivable because of black holes and exploding stars is quite odd
though. I'm not sure where the writers got that from.

I think its something EVERYBODY has heard, and most likely multiple times.

You say black hole and its like Holy crap that **** will suck you in. I mean I remember a Doctor Who 2 parter that centered on the subject so ME crew is definitely not alone.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 11 juin 2010 - 05:11 .

[huntrrz]

adam_grif wrote...

The idea that the Galactic Core is unsurvivable because of black holes and exploding stars is quite odd though. I'm not sure where the writers got that from.

Must have been the theory at one time (don't know if it still is or not).  Larry Niven used it in several of his stories (and that was 30-40 years ago).

[adam_grif]

Must have been the theory at one time (don't know if it still is or not). Larry Niven used it in several of his stories (and that was 30-40 years ago).

Don't know if it was ever a scientific theory, but in the Known Space series, the race of advanced cow people discovered that there was a chain reaction of stars going Nova, one after another, coming from the galactic core. I think that's what you're talking about?

I think its something EVERYBODY has heard, and most likely multiple times.



You say black hole and its like Holy crap that **** will suck you in. I mean I remember a Doctor Who 2 parter that centered on the subject so ME crew is definitely not alone.

I recall something about an "IMPOSSIBLE PLANET" that was IMPOSSIBLE because it was IN ORBIT AROUND A BLACK HOLE. Which of course is perfectly plausible as long as they can survive without a sun

[InvaderErl]

I'm going to say screw science, that black hole was powered with the blood of demons so it doesn't have to obey MAN'S LAW.



Or something like that.

[huntrrz]

adam_grif wrote...

Must have been the theory at one time (don't know if it still is or not). Larry Niven used it in several of his stories (and that was 30-40 years ago).

Don't know if it was ever a scientific theory, but in the Known Space series, the race of advanced cow people discovered that there was a chain reaction of stars going Nova, one after another, coming from the galactic core. I think that's what you're talking about?

Yes, but I don't think I ever thought of the Puppeteers as "cow people"...

[adam_grif]

That's the name. I thought the Puppeteers had powerful hind legs, travelled in herds and so on. I suppose that describes horses and pigs just as well though.