605 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I don't know where Alistair got his ideas about being a Warden from. Duncan was the "any resource we can use, we will" school. Hell, Alistair's the only person who thinks being a Grey Warden is a good thing who isn't a redshirt, come to think of it...

Oh, really? Wynne will tell you the legends about the Grey Wardens. What does being a Grey Warden mean to you?

[Sarah1281]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I don't know where Alistair got his ideas about being a Warden from. Duncan was the "any resource we can use, we will" school. Hell, Alistair's the only person who thinks being a Grey Warden is a good thing who isn't a redshirt, come to think of it...

Well if he's only been a Warden for six months and all the NPCs seem to think Grey Wardens are either saints or useless Orlesian spies then since Duncan saved him he's going to lean towards the former and since Duncan was presumably gone for quite a bit of that time recruiting and journeying across Ferelden (he had to have gone to Orzammar no matter where else he ended up, I know, because otherwise there is no proving for the DC to get caught and imprisoned at and no Deep Roads expedition for the DN to get arrested at and he may have hit all of the origin locations but had his timing off to save them) so there simply wasn't time to disabuse Alistair of his notion that he joined the White Wardens.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I don't know where Alistair got his ideas about being a Warden from. Duncan was the "any resource we can use, we will" school. Hell, Alistair's the only person who thinks being a Grey Warden is a good thing who isn't a redshirt, come to think of it...

Alsitair is, imo, blinded because of his love to Duncan.
Notice how Alistair gets pissed if you imply that Duncan recruited him simply because he thought he would be useful and how he insists that Duncan was a "good man".
 
Now I am not suggesting that Duncan couldn't have cared for Alsitair. what is revealing hwoever is Alistair's attitude towards this and his belief that Duncan genuinely and intrensically cares for him.
The PC's experience with Duncan on the otherhand can be quite different from this. Or can be seen very differently.

The strange thing is that Alistair also said that the Wardens would do whatever is necessary and he stressed on that. But at the same time feels it's an honor. Meeh, I think his reaction in the Landmseet is more based on vengeance rather than principle.

[Sarah1281]

Xandurpein wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
When love is broken over something it's sad, but it doesn't mean that it was a lie.

I mostly agree on your point. But we must remember the context.

Alistair ending the romance is one thing and I can completely understand that love being broken. But he isn't just dumping his lover. He would be abandonning her to fight the Blight on her own.

I dont know, but that looks like an unstable and volatile shift from loving to basically hating to me. And I think Alistair would be the first to acknnowledge that what he did was out of blind rage and not an actual thoughout position where he determined that he and the PC no longer love each other. 

You can be a basically decent person and still end up in a situation where you totally loose it to blind rage, under the right (wrong) circumstances. I don't know how much is rage and how much is disappointment for Alistair at the Landsmeet, but I think that the morning after Alistair won't hate the PC. He will primarily hate himself. I think that is what breaks him.

He certianly doesn't sound full of self-loathing or at all over what you did if he's King and Loghain survived although if Loghain sacrificed himself he does sound a little more conciliatory.

The fact that he becomes a drunk is to me a clear indication of self-destructive and quite possibly self-loathing behaviour. D Gaider has also written somewhere that if Alistair leaves the Grey Wardens he will regret it afterwards, but then it's too late.

That's only if he's not King. If he is King then he seems fully prepared to hate you for as long as Loghain shall live even though he turns his back on the Wardens and the Blight equally in both cases.

[Xandurpein]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I don't know where Alistair got his ideas about being a Warden from. Duncan was the "any resource we can use, we will" school and probably would have recruited Loghain without question.

Hell, Alistair's the only person who thinks being a Grey Warden is a good thing who isn't a redshirt, come to think of it...

No it's not. Mhairi in Awakening is perhaps even more starry eyed about being a Grey Warden than Alistair. Wynne tells lot of stories about the Grey Wardens. It's probably a lot of people who think like Ali in Ferelden.

[Xandurpein]

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's only if he's not King. If he is King then he seems fully prepared to hate you for as long as Loghain shall live even though he turns his back on the Wardens and the Blight equally in both cases.

We can agree to disagree on this one, but in my opinion sometimes those who hate most blindly really hate themselves too.

[nos_astra]

Xandurpein wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
He certianly doesn't sound full of self-loathing or at all over what you did if he's King and Loghain survived although if Loghain sacrificed himself he does sound a little more conciliatory.

The fact that he becomes a drunk is to me a clear indication of self-destructive and quite possibly self-loathing behaviour. D Gaider has also written somewhere that if Alistair leaves the Grey Wardens he will regret it afterwards, but then it's too late.

If you let him go, he will regret having abandoned everything.

Being King and married to certainly changes things a bit. If Loghain dies, he will still come to terms with it and probably regret having abandoned his duty as a Grey Warden but at least he didn't abandon Ferelden.

If Loghain survives this is a different story, I think. Alistair is stuck with a responsibility that scared him to death, married to a woman he doesn't even like, part of a family he despises. I'm not sure but I think this is the worst fate for him. The other outcomes allow him to come to terms with what happened, regret it and heal eventually. This is a lifelong reminder of what went wrong.

[Sarah1281]

Xandurpein wrote...

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I don't know where Alistair got his ideas about being a Warden from. Duncan was the "any resource we can use, we will" school and probably would have recruited Loghain without question.

Hell, Alistair's the only person who thinks being a Grey Warden is a good thing who isn't a redshirt, come to think of it...

No it's not. Mhairi in Awakening is perhaps even more starry eyed about being a Grey Warden than Alistair. Wynne tells lot of stories about the Grey Wardens. It's probably a lot of people who think like Ali in Ferelden.

Mhairi was totally a red shirt. I mean, did you see her armor? 
 
And it's one thing for the common people to believe in the Wardens as champions of truth and justice but quite another for a Warden facing morally ambiguous choices and charged with doing whatever it takes to end the Blight to. It is a bit strange that in six months none of the other Wardens sat him down and explained to him what Ser Gilmore can explain to a HN: Wardense are not above burning down whole towns to stop the spread of the taint. Then again, maybe they were as naive as he was if they were so new.

[Sarah1281]

klarabella wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
He certianly doesn't sound full of self-loathing or at all over what you did if he's King and Loghain survived although if Loghain sacrificed himself he does sound a little more conciliatory.

The fact that he becomes a drunk is to me a clear indication of self-destructive and quite possibly self-loathing behaviour. D Gaider has also written somewhere that if Alistair leaves the Grey Wardens he will regret it afterwards, but then it's too late.

If you let him go, he will regret having abandoned everything.

Being King and married to certainly changes things a bit. If Loghain dies, he will still come to terms with it and probably regret having abandoned his duty as a Grey Warden but at least he didn't abandon Ferelden.

If Loghain survives this is a different story, I think. Alistair is stuck with a responsibility that scared him to death, married to a woman he doesn't even like, part of a family he despises. I'm not sure but I think this is the worst fate for him. The other outcomes allow him to come to terms with what happened, regret it and heal eventually. This is a lifelong reminder of what went wrong.

At least Loghain is moving to Orlais within the year?

[Xandurpein]

klarabella wrote...

If Loghain survives this is a different story, I think. Alistair is stuck with a responsibility that scared him to death, married to a woman he doesn't even like, part of a family he despises. I'm not sure but I think this is the worst fate for him. The other outcomes allow him to come to terms with what happened, regret it and heal eventually. This is a lifelong reminder of what went wrong.

True. I don't think he will be able to see what a hollow victory vengeance really is until he has experienced it.

[nos_astra]

Sarah1281 wrote...
At least Loghain is moving to Orlais within the year?

Of course, but don't you think it will affect the way Anora acts around Alistair and Alistair around her?
They will still work well together but the private life is probably very cold and lonely. Alistair suspects that the Warden has cheated somehow (and rightfully so!), Loghain wasn't properly punished (from his POV). Living hell, in my book.
Alistair could be too busy hating his life to truly regret.

If Loghain dies a hero both are appeased. Anora is delighted that Daddy died a hero, Alistair is content that Loghain paid for his crimes even if this kind of death was too good for him. He gets over it and has time to think about his mistakes.

Modifié par klarabella, 11 juin 2010 - 08:57 .

[Xandurpein]

Sarah1281 wrote...

And it's one thing for the common people to believe in the Wardens as champions of truth and justice but quite another for a Warden facing morally ambiguous choices and charged with doing whatever it takes to end the Blight to. It is a bit strange that in six months none of the other Wardens sat him down and explained to him what Ser Gilmore can explain to a HN: Wardense are not above burning down whole towns to stop the spread of the taint. Then again, maybe they were as naive as he was if they were so new.

Compare it to the armed forces of any nation you can name. It owes a lot of it's acceptance to the myth that it is there to preserve freedom, justice and world peace, when it is often more a tool for international politics than just for the preservation of freedom. Do the generals spend time to bring the recruits out of their naive faith? Of course not. It's good for morale if the rank and file believe so. Eventually some of them may get jaded and see a different truth, but there is no rush.

Alistair just got bumped from sergeant to policy making general in the span of a few hours at Ostagar. That's what screwed things up.

/Edit.  This not meant to be offensive to anyone who happens to be reading this and one way or another works in the service of their country's national security. I do so myself. Just as Alistair's faith is not inherently wrong, just because he has a more idealistic view than Duncan.

But I think that it is a fact that those politicians and generals who decide on when or where to use armed force are often a bit less idealistic about it, than many of those men and women who actually carry out the orders.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 11 juin 2010 - 11:05 .

[GavrielKay]

There were some posts a few pages back about how Alistair must not have really loved your PC because he broke up with her (non-HNF PC and unhardened Alistair) rather than go against the Landsmeet. I think that is unfair however. Unhardened Alistair is a creature of duty and sacrifice. Not until Duncan "rescued" him from the Chantry were even his most basic desires for his own future taken into consideration. Even then, as a Gray Warden he has few freedoms and a shortened lifespan.



When you make un-hardened Alistair king, you put him right back into a mental prison that he's familiar with. His needs and desires don't count. He has a duty to perform and no choice in the matter. Your PC has ignored that he loves you and wants to stay with you as a Gray Warden. So what can he do but sacrifice his love for you right along with his love for the Wardens and a life of his own choosing?



It's your PC in this situation that has pushed him into a role he clearly told you he doesn't want. But like he always has, he bows down and tries to do his duty to the best of his ability. Unfortunately for the non-HNF PC, this includes needing to find an acceptable wife who can bear him heirs.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote... 
And it's one thing for the common people to believe in the Wardens as champions of truth and justice but quite another for a Warden facing morally ambiguous choices and charged with doing whatever it takes to end the Blight to. It is a bit strange that in six months none of the other Wardens sat him down and explained to him what Ser Gilmore can explain to a HN: Wardense are not above burning down whole towns to stop the spread of the taint. Then again, maybe they were as naive as he was if they were so new.

Alistair will tell you in Ostagar, if you ask him if the Wardens are knights or heroes, that that is not the case.  But it's not how he sees himself- he is in it to do some good- and it's not how he sees a friendly Warden PC, either.

[Maria13]

GavrielKay wrote...

There were some posts a few pages back about how Alistair must not have really loved your PC because he broke up with her (non-HNF PC and unhardened Alistair) rather than go against the Landsmeet. I think that is unfair however. Unhardened Alistair is a creature of duty and sacrifice. Not until Duncan "rescued" him from the Chantry were even his most basic desires for his own future taken into consideration. Even then, as a Gray Warden he has few freedoms and a shortened lifespan.

When you make un-hardened Alistair king, you put him right back into a mental prison that he's familiar with. His needs and desires don't count. He has a duty to perform and no choice in the matter. Your PC has ignored that he loves you and wants to stay with you as a Gray Warden. So what can he do but sacrifice his love for you right along with his love for the Wardens and a life of his own choosing?

It's your PC in this situation that has pushed him into a role he clearly told you he doesn't want. But like he always has, he bows down and tries to do his duty to the best of his ability. Unfortunately for the non-HNF PC, this includes needing to find an acceptable wife who can bear him heirs.

Agreed.  And this scenario makes for great Fan Fic.

[Maria13]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Hyper Cutter wrote...

I don't know where Alistair got his ideas about being a Warden from. Duncan was the "any resource we can use, we will" school and probably would have recruited Loghain without question.

Hell, Alistair's the only person who thinks being a Grey Warden is a good thing who isn't a redshirt, come to think of it...

No it's not. Mhairi in Awakening is perhaps even more starry eyed about being a Grey Warden than Alistair. Wynne tells lot of stories about the Grey Wardens. It's probably a lot of people who think like Ali in Ferelden.

Mhairi was totally a red shirt. I mean, did you see her armor? 
 
And it's one thing for the common people to believe in the Wardens as champions of truth and justice but quite another for a Warden facing morally ambiguous choices and charged with doing whatever it takes to end the Blight to. It is a bit strange that in six months none of the other Wardens sat him down and explained to him what Ser Gilmore can explain to a HN: Wardense are not above burning down whole towns to stop the spread of the taint. Then again, maybe they were as naive as he was if they were so new.

Or perhaps they simply realised how naive he was and decided to break him in gently.  After all if it had been done all upfront and he had taken it badly what use would he be to them?  In the same vein there is still the fact that neither he nor the PC are told the truth about how wardens actually end the blight.  Again, I think this may be an unwritten policy of breaking the bad news gradually...

[Phedra]

Alistair has a good heart and easy going personality and can be firm in his beliefs. I adore him at times and and get equally annoyed at him. My husband can't stand him.

[Alyka]

Edit:deleted because of accidental double post.

Modifié par Alyka, 12 juin 2010 - 05:21 .

[Alyka]

(Speaking for myself as a woman about my DA:O RPing experience.)

Why is Alistair your favorite romance option?

I've romanced all party members in my playthroughs.
These are my opinions on the characters as romance options and not necessarily my overall opinion of them in general.

Morrigan - She's b!tchy.Granted, she doesn't have alot of tact due to her upbringing and she doesn't have alot of social skills, but surely she could realize that sometimes she needs to back off a bit and not be so belittling to the PC.Her gift: a gold ring that she can "track" you with.She then denies that it means something. <_<

Leliana - She's a little creepy at times.Even though the idea of her catching your eyelashes in a jar is cute, it's disturbing also.And the fact that she was a bard/assassin keeps my PC awake at night sometimes. What if I said something wrong to her and she takes it too personally and decides to try and kill me? Not to mention the fact that she tries to compare me to Marjolaine. Ew.How dare she!? Her gift: her heart.That's a nice gift,I'll give her that.

Zevran - He's a somewhat handsome and rugged elf.First he tries to kill you, then he tries to bed you.Talk about going from one extreme to another.I don't know whether to trust him or have to sleep with my eyes open wondering if he's going to try and kill me, especially if I say the wrong thing to him.He tells you about a woman he bedded and then tried to kill but she had an accident.That's nice to know......for future reference.
He then proceeds to recite a dirty poem to you that a contract of his told him before he killed her.
His gift: an earring he got off of one of his dead contracts.No....REALLY!? <_<

Alistair - Here is what seperates him from the rest:
He's handsome and has a corny sense of humor.He's also a Grey Warden, someone who my PC can relate to because of the sacrifices that they both make.He's never had a woman, so he doesn't have anyone to compare my PC to.Even though he prefers to have people lead him, he trusts and allows my PC to be in charge which makes her feel important.He may be inexperienced with some things, but at least he knows how to wield a sword.So what if he's a virgin.It gives the opportunity for my PC to teach him a few things .And at least he's not drooling and pawing all over her and smooth talking her with cheesy pick up lines.He gives you a rose and tells you how it reminded him of you.A nice gesture that conveys his genuine feelings towards you.


Contrary to popular belief, not all women like men who act like d!cks towards them and boast about how sexually experienced they are.Some of us actually like nice guys.

Modifié par Alyka, 12 juin 2010 - 05:17 .

[Xandurpein]

Alistair is the guy all women want to marry. Usually they wake up and discover that they got Cailan instead...

[Giggles_Manically]

I used to use Alistair all the time, but now Shale is my main tank so Alistair never leaves camp except to see Goldana and maybe to the Redcliffe battle. The only thing that annoys me about him is his "Make me king so I can kill for revenge!" line. At the end he loses sight of what really matters during a blight. Before that though he is a total bro to all my Wardens.

[nos_astra]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I used to use Alistair all the time, but now Shale is my main tank so Alistair never leaves camp except to see Goldana and maybe to the Redcliffe battle. The only thing that annoys me about him is his "Make me king so I can kill for revenge!" line. At the end he loses sight of what really matters during a blight. Before that though he is a total bro to all my Wardens.

This thread is not about you or the Landsmeet or Loghain. <_<

Modifié par klarabella, 12 juin 2010 - 06:11 .

[VampireCommando]

Well whatever every woman on the planet lovesAlistair for i bloody wish i had it, lol.

[Giggles_Manically]

klarabella wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I used to use Alistair all the time, but now Shale is my main tank so Alistair never leaves camp except to see Goldana and maybe to the Redcliffe battle. The only thing that annoys me about him is his "Make me king so I can kill for revenge!" line. At the end he loses sight of what really matters during a blight. Before that though he is a total bro to all my Wardens.

This thread is not about you or the Landsmeet or Loghain. <_<