605 réponses à ce sujet

[GavrielKay]

As far as Alistair is concerned, Loghain is just a traitor. The great general's plan to save Ferelden hasn't worked very well so far. We've already defeated him in hand to hand combat as well. Why should Alistair be noble about you taking on a traitor whose reputation seems a bit exaggerated under the current circumstances? As far as he's concerned you've already picked up an unexpected ally in Riordan. Alistair was mentally prepared to go against the darkspawn horde with you and a few trusted companions at his side. He was not prepared to fight along-side his worst enemy.

edit:  fix spelling error

Modifié par GavrielKay, 14 juin 2010 - 08:29 .

[Lara Denton]

ejoslin wrote...

Under "Characters." This is the other note about Riorden. I didn't put it in my last post because I didn't want it to be seen as bolstering my argument as the toolset often has outdated information regarding stuff like that. BUT it's interesting too!

Riordan is a member of the Grey Wardens, a group of elite warriors who protect the lands against the darkspawn. This means he is a competent soldier to begin with, and in this case he is also a veteran who has been with the Wardens for a very long time. Having lost contact with the local Grey Wardens, Riordan was sent to the capital to find out what had become of them -- and then was taken prisoner by Teyrn Loghain and tortured. Once released, he realizes that it now falls on him and the few Grey Wardens that remain to deal with the oncoming darkspawn threat.

Edit: And he's 45.

He could be the Mister Awesome, but for all the game offers, he doesn't come off quite like that. 

[Xandurpein]

Isn't the bottom line that it is perfectly reasonable for someone to make Loghain a Grey Warden, for a number of reasons. But equally reasonable for someone else to refuse to do it?

It may only be one correct answer for each individual, but that is not as saying there is only one correct answer that is the same for everyone.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 14 juin 2010 - 08:31 .

[ejoslin]

<-- Just saying what is in the toolset. Often the information is outdated or wrong. But it's still interesting to read.

[ejoslin]

Xandurpein wrote...

Isn't the bottom line that it is perfectly reasonable for someone to make Loghain a Grey Warden, for a number of reasons. But equally reasonable for someone else to refuse to do it?

It may only be one correct answer for each individual, but that is not as saying there is only one correct answer that is the same for everyone.

YES!  Most of my game he dies, but not all of them, and both choices make sense depending on the character.

[Addai]

GavrielKay wrote...

As far as Alistair is concerned, Loghain is just a traitor. The great general's plan to save Ferelden hasn't worked very well so far. We've already defeated him in hand to hand combat as well. Why should Alistair be noble about you taking on a traitor whose reputation seems a bit exaggerated under the current circumstances? As far as he's concerned you've already picked up an unexpected ally in Riordan. Alistair was mentally prepared to go against the darkspawn horde with you and a few trusted companions at his side. He was not prepared to fight along-side his worst enemy.

edit:  fix spelling error

All good points and basically how I see it.  I haven't been able to find a reasonable scenario where one of my PCs would spare him.  Not saying others can't, obviously, but it's too far a stretch for me and I know that when I stretch that far, I'm not going to enjoy the result.  The by-product of which, I've never ended a game with Alistair as anything but friendly or romanced.  In my mind, that's just the way the story goes.

Reading a few players' fanfiction, I can also see how a Warden who was friendly to him sending Alistair into exile makes for a poignant story, though the reasons given for sparing Loghain are still the sticking point for me where the story line seems stretched.  It makes more sense if you're either trying to get in good with Anora or if you just see Alistair as an expendable Warden and don't care about his opinion.

[Giggles_Manically]

My sister liked him until he publically dumped her and called her a "dirty infertile elf mage" in front of all her friends" to quote her. I wish I could have warned her but she told me to never spoil her game. Sad to see her walk into that one.

[Xandurpein]

Addai67 wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

As far as Alistair is concerned, Loghain is just a traitor. The great general's plan to save Ferelden hasn't worked very well so far. We've already defeated him in hand to hand combat as well. Why should Alistair be noble about you taking on a traitor whose reputation seems a bit exaggerated under the current circumstances? As far as he's concerned you've already picked up an unexpected ally in Riordan. Alistair was mentally prepared to go against the darkspawn horde with you and a few trusted companions at his side. He was not prepared to fight along-side his worst enemy.

edit:  fix spelling error

All good points and basically how I see it.  I haven't been able to find a reasonable scenario where one of my PCs would spare him.  Not saying others can't, obviously, but it's too far a stretch for me and I know that when I stretch that far, I'm not going to enjoy the result.  The by-product of which, I've never ended a game with Alistair as anything but friendly or romanced.  In my mind, that's just the way the story goes.

Reading a few players' fanfiction, I can also see how a Warden who was friendly to him sending Alistair into exile makes for a poignant story, though the reasons given for sparing Loghain are still the sticking point for me where the story line seems stretched.  It makes more sense if you're either trying to get in good with Anora or if you just see Alistair as an expendable Warden and don't care about his opinion.

There is still the scenario where you roleplay a character thinks that Anora should have the throne and hopes to talk Alistair into accepting Loghain. Even if you just argue it a little, but are prepared to give in to Alistair in the end, he will then up the ante and demand the crown so he can kill Loghain.

I think it's perfectly reasonable at this pint to roleplay a character who is quite heart broken about the mess, but can't imagine handing a crown to Alistair, even if it his friend, on such a flimsy reason.

That is what happened to me on my first play, when I had no clue about what would happen. It sure made me feel rotten, but I couldn't see myself roleplaying another way out of it.

[AnniLau]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
called her a "dirty infertile elf mage" in front of all her friends"

Never happened.

[ejoslin]

AnniLau wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
called her a "dirty infertile elf mage" in front of all her friends"

Never happened.

Well, he does never use the term "dirty" but yeh, I can see someone playing an unspoiled playthrough get that feeling.  Honestly, on my city elf, first play through, unspoiled, I had very much the same reaction.  Good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to marry.

Yeh, I know how to avoid that, trust me, I KNOW the game mechanics now.  But his sister's reaction is not out of line.

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 juin 2010 - 09:05 .

[Herr Uhl]

AnniLau wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
called her a "dirty infertile elf mage" in front of all her friends"

Never happened.

Probably exaggeration from that he  says 1. Can't marry an elf 2. They can't have kids.

Or am I mistaken?

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
Well, he does never use the term "dirty" but yeh, I can see someone playing an unspoiled playthrough get that feeling.  Honestly, on my city elf, first play through, unspoiled, I had very much the same reaction.  Good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to marry.

That's why I say you can't it's hard to roleplay a consistent character unspoiled. You Many people just don't pay enough attention to be aware of the consequences.

Edit: Fixed!

Modifié par klarabella, 14 juin 2010 - 09:20 .

[Herr Uhl]

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, he does never use the term "dirty" but yeh, I can see someone playing an unspoiled playthrough get that feeling.  Honestly, on my city elf, first play through, unspoiled, I had very much the same reaction.  Good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to marry.

That's why I say you can't roleplay a consistent character unspoiled. You just don't pay enough attention to be aware of the consequences.

Yes, yes you can.

[nos_astra]

Herr Uhl wrote...

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, he does never use the term "dirty" but yeh, I can see someone playing an unspoiled playthrough get that feeling.  Honestly, on my city elf, first play through, unspoiled, I had very much the same reaction.  Good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to marry.

That's why I say you can't roleplay a consistent character unspoiled. You just don't pay enough attention to be aware of the consequences.

Yes, yes you can.

Ok, you can if you are really good at it and suck up every bit of information like a dry sponge. But most people simply ply themselves and forget crucial information quickly.

[Addai]

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, he does never use the term "dirty" but yeh, I can see someone playing an unspoiled playthrough get that feeling.  Honestly, on my city elf, first play through, unspoiled, I had very much the same reaction.  Good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to marry.

That's why I say you can't roleplay a consistent character unspoiled. You just don't pay enough attention to be aware of the consequences.

"Can't" is a tricky word, but in this case I would have to agree.  Someone who can play the game and believe that they'll end up as elf queen is not paying attention to the surroundings.  Naturally you can still hope that Alistair would keep you on as GF, and hope for something a little more tactful than the generalized public scene they give for all post-LM scenarios.

[AnniLau]

Gemaphrodite wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
called her a "dirty infertile elf mage" in front of all her friends"

Never happened.

Lol. Denial.

Not denial, truth. He explains why he can't be with an Elf and/or Mage as King and also that two Grey Wardens can't have children together, but the first is practical and the second is as much about him as it is the PC. And, yes, he does have unfortunate timing, but he never refers to the PC as a "dirty, infertile Elf Mage."

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, he does never use the term "dirty" but yeh, I can see someone playing an unspoiled playthrough get that feeling.  Honestly, on my city elf, first play through, unspoiled, I had very much the same reaction.  Good enough to have sex with, but not good enough to marry.

That's why I say you can't roleplay a consistent character unspoiled. You just don't pay enough attention to be aware of the consequences.

"Can't" is a tricky word, but in this case I would have to agree.  Someone who can play the game and believe that they'll end up as elf queen is not paying attention to the surroundings.  Naturally you can still hope that Alistair would keep you on as GF, and hope for something a little more tactful than the generalized public scene they give for all post-LM scenarios.

Honestly, I should have seen the dumping coming.  His pulling away, his saying that he doesn't know what being king means for their future, etc., etc.  Somehow, though, I had this feeling that Alistair was the white knight and love will conquer all.  Of course it didn't happen.  My heart was broken, I cried, I turned to Zevran, and had the most amazing ending ever.

Gah, I loved that playthrough.

Edit: And I roleplayed that character probably more in depth than my others.  I have no clue what you mean by you can't roleplay a consistent character unspoiled.  No one, if they're unspoiled, has any clue WHAT direction the authors are going to take.

And seriously, as I pointed out earlier, it's conceivable that a HNF will take what Arl Eamon says to heart about how she cannot appear to be grabbing power and NOT say the needed line of "I'll rule beside him" but instead expect Alistair to propose afterwards.  Of course it doesn't happen, but it's not inconsistent to believe it would.

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 juin 2010 - 09:29 .

[Schneidend]

He's a wise-cracking sidekick that that can go from dry, acerbic wit to eccentric silliness at the drop of a helmet. Some of his lines make me laugh every single time. That's why I like the guy. He's my Human Noble Warrior's best pal because of this. One time, they both landed blows on the same enemy and levels up at the exact same time from that experience. I pictured them bumping chest with such force as a result, that all women within a five hundred mile radius became pregnant.

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: And I roleplayed that character probably more in depth than my others.  I have no clue what you mean by you can't roleplay a consistent character unspoiled.  No one, if they're unspoiled, have any clue WHAT direction the authors are going to take.

What I mean is that you likely forget or don't even uncover important information. Your character is supposed to be living and breathing in a world you hardly know. Or maye this is simply my problem, it took me a while and a lot of extra reading to have a clue what my character would probaly feel about certain choices.

Modifié par klarabella, 14 juin 2010 - 09:31 .